Bipartisan Senate group proposes ‘no fly, no buy’ gun measure

[Classic-Xer]

(02-21-2018, 12:40 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-20-2018, 03:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-20-2018, 12:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: The point of Jackson's argument is societal not individual.  Banning or regulating rights-based practices that degrade the society can be justified if the damage is severe enough to threaten society in general.  That's obviously a subjective call, but we should be able to know it when we see it.  Shouting FIRE is not an individual threat.  It threatens the public ... at least that portion of the public in attendance.  If the guy who sent the nuclear attack message in Hawaii had done so on purpose, that may be another example.

I believe Heller was wrongly decided.  Another court may decide that as well.  Short of that, however, we may find some limitations using Jackson's measuring stick.

And I believe Heller was correctly decided, that the intent of the authors of the constitution were honored, that the blues do not have the supermajority required to make the changes you are weaseling for.  You can hand wave around the fact that you cannot make said changes, and try to confuse rule of law with opinion, but you are apt to fail.  Values lock is engaged.  Many will reject your opinion, sure of their opinions, which are as firm as yours.  There are not enough people who agree with you to succeed legally.

Values change when truly complete and spread should change legal standards and law, but what is happening is that you want to change the law before your new values have spread enough.  To change the law, you are willing to disrespect the law.  I reject that.

I don't see how David, I or other blues are disrespecting the law. It's the law we are calling upon. We personally can't steal guns from people and melt them down. If the Supreme Court throws out a law that we propose and pass, that's the law for now. As David said though, the tides may be changing. It will take more than a couple of years, for sure. And since you are right that values-lock is involved, some gun nuts (e.g. bobc) may try to wage civil war over this, and gun advocates will fight back legally. So we'll see.

True, you can't confiscate guns and melt them down on your own. You'll need to elect a more tyrranical government like the blue governments of old (the Bolshevik's and Nazi's) and give it similar power as those. What do you think would happen to a totalitarian who started a fight with a bunch of authoritarians?