02-08-2019, 07:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019, 07:36 PM by Eric the Green.)
(02-08-2019, 06:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(02-08-2019, 01:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Poor libertarians, like our spammer here. Automation and computers will soon put their punitive work ethic out of business. "Free stuff" "given by the government" will be in vogue again, overcoming the Reaganoid plague. Libertarians base their whole "freedom" propaganda on the idea that we must work for a living. But what if work has to change, as envisioned by the Ted speaker on the new new ideas thread I started? What if a guaranteed basic income puts the guilt of the survival/scarcity-based work ethic off the table, and libertarian conservatives can no longer use the rant about stealing "my" tax money to give to freeloaders, because we will ALL become freeloaders? What if wage guarantees of more money for less hours of work are put in place so machines and trade doesn't put us all out of a job? What if the people see that the owners of the machines and all the wealth don't deserve and did not "earn" all the huge salaries and dividends that they expropriate and hoard and use to wield enormous power over our state and our lives?You should place the spammer on ignore because they're views are pretty much irrelevant. BTW, libertarian minded people don't go around imposing guilt trips on people who disagree with their views or reject their views or those who consider their views as being irrelevant to them. I've never used a guilt trip to establish moral dominance. I've had many blues of many types affiliated with blue groups try to do it with me over the years including some who claimed to be Libertarian believers/followers. As I've mentioned many times, you are free to elect whoever you want to represent your interest and you are free decide whether the American system has been beneficial to you or not and you are free to choose whether you will be ruled or whether you'll be free to make your own decisions or not. However, you aren't free to make those important decisions for me or determine my beliefs and if it takes a war to prove it to the blues then so be it. As an alternative to war, if it takes a period formal financial separation and economic isolation and ideological containment to prove it to the blues then so be it. The American right isn't leaving America or aborting it's kids.
No, "janet" "hiphopper" "dcgal" "nebraska" dude or dudette, whichever you are. No, Classic Xer and Galen. Your libertarian guilt trip is on its way out! And good riddance!
If I am free to elect who I want to represent my interest, I will vote for those who are willing to take some money from you, if you are rich enough, and from myself, in order to create a society that is just and fair and prosperous for all. Unlike you libertarians, I do not consider that I or anyone else is a separate individual. I don't agree with Thatcher and other American right heroes who say society doesn't exist; only individuals and families. We are all in society together, and if some people are too poor or too oppressed by racism and pollution to reach their full potential, then it is in MY interest to support government policies to help them.
If that means taking some of your money, then so be it, and if it takes a war to bring back or bring about a society that takes care of its people and its environment, so be it. As an alternative to war, if it takes a period of formal financial separation and economic isolation and ideological containment to prove it to the reds, then so be it. The American left isn't leaving America, although it may abort some of its fetuses.
The guilt trip I refer to is one you use, in my opinion. The constant refrain that "I will not let the government take my property in order to give it to freeloaders" is based on the guilt trip mentioned in the recent videos I posted, which says that everyone must earn a living by working. This notion of work puts guilt on people that they have to work to survive, and if they don't work to survive, then they are thieves and freeloaders on the taxpayers.
But if this traditional work ethic, and the guilt associated with it, is out of date because many jobs are no longer needed or available, because of automation and free trade, then society has to decide whether it will consist of people who have no job and no money to buy things from the people with the jobs and power, thus killing the economy, or use the government to provide a decent safety net, minimum wages or basic income that provides the machine owners with enough customers to keep society going.
Our view of the poor, and our idea of what work is, needs to change, as Rutger Bregman says:
https://youtu.be/ydKcaIE6O1k
"I believe in a future where the value of your work is not determined by the size of your paycheck, but by the amount of happiness you spread, and the amount of meaning you give. I believe in a future where the point of education is not to prepare you for another useless job, but for a life well lived. I believe in a future where an existence without poverty is not a privilege, but a right we all deserve."