America is a sick society

[Eric the Green]

(12-20-2016, 02:26 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-20-2016, 02:04 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I dissent that there was ever a time when Reagan's nonsense made any sense. There were already some cutbacks in the 1970s in excessive welfare spending and job programs. There was never any need for Reagan's policies. It was just a tempting ideology and a mood that the charming actor/demagogue could appeal to. Deceptive slogans of freedom can often work in a (supposedly) democratic republic.

Similarly, I dissent that today there has been excessive tolerance producing hate. It is just a button for a demagogue to push that has never gone away. Anyone who thinks transgender bathrooms or political correctness are more important issues than inequality and climate change, is just hooked by the demagogue.

But I agree that cycles turn and pendulums swing, and the arc of history is long but it bends toward justice.

I am not expecting you to acknowledge any merit in ideas that conflict with your own.  I count you as an extreme partisan while not saying there is a lack of red extreme partisans equally unable to perceive the merits of blue values and ideas.  I fully expect extreme partisans of any ilk to paint the opposition as evil, stupid, insane, brainwashed, following a demagogue or otherwise mentally incompetent.  I perceive it as entirely possible, indeed, as common place, for people from different environments with different upbringings to become totally committed to one perspective.  An awful lot of people have no interest in learning or growing.  They are entirely and aggressively satisfied with the realities they have locked themselves into.

I understand that you are entirely sincere in your above paragraphs.  I just suggest  you try to comprehend that the Red extreme partisans are equally sincere in their belief of your own ability to comprehend their common sense.

It doesn't matter what you expect about me. It is simply a matter of the truth. No, there was never any need for Reagan, although you may defer to what you think was the trend, and in the hope of convincing right-wing partisans of your open-mindedness, and thereby hope to appeal to them. I don't concede that ground in that hope, that's all. I just prefer to stick to the truth, and hope to get the message out that Reagan was simply peddling a false and harmful set of slogans that people need to realize were never true. I do not concede that each side is as deceived as the other, but I rather feel and hope that all people of whatever persuasion are capable of seeing past deception. Blue partisans are not inherently more intelligent or virtuous than red partisans; it is a matter of social and ideological conditioning.

Taking a stand is more likely to inspire confidence, and convince some to join our side, than coddling the deceptions and wavering in our positions and proposals. Bush and Trump and the like get considerable admiration for their ability to "take a stand," and also tend to get the other side to back down because the other side wavers and defers to the stronger and more confident side.

I do concede that there are grains of truth in the red side. Self-reliance is a virtue, and religion has its place, for example. It is a matter of relative degrees of truth and reality, and a condition that the progressive side is relatively closer to truth, and less dogmatic too. As others have pointed out to you, it is foolish to pretend that you understand the ways of the other side in the way that they would want. If you are a blue partisan, as others consider you to be, then it is better to be upfront and consistent about it.