America is a sick society

[Eric the Green]

(08-13-2017, 11:44 AM)Mikebert Wrote:

(08-06-2017, 08:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Why would you assume that a recovery is possible later after a massive breakdown of civil society, the middle class, education/media and democracy, but no recovery is possible sooner, before these collapses fully set in?

Mostly because you need a pretty big decline before it affects elites as a class to a degree where they see it as a threat and support collective action to address the issues behind the decline.

I understand, and unfortunately (?) I don't see a big decline ahead; maybe a small one that is still alarming. But David Horn's point is that we need to wait for the next Awakening. I understand his pessimism, but my point is that if we allow today's corrupting, degrading forces to continue to triumph and Trump us, there will be no basis left for a recovery, because the potential will not be there. There will just be decline. There are no awakenings in banana republics. They just continue to fester and decline. That in my pessimistic opinion is what lies ahead if we don't rise up in this 4T and take our country back by the end of the 2020s. 

The next big decline will probably not come until the next 4T anyway; 2T awakenings are economically unstable, and there might be economic turbulence like 1893 or 1973, but not like the scale of 1929 or 2008.

It will be up to the common people to make this recovery happen, from the bottom up. That's where movements come from. We can't count on that many elites joining this movement, beyond those who are already on the right side today.