A values consensus from Millennials?

[sbarrera]

I know the thread subject itself probably is immediately contentious. Is there really any kind of values consensus forming in our society? I do think we are gravitating towards one, if not a "consensus" per se then a dominant majoritarian set of values. And it's driven by the Millennial generation, the young adult generation with a strong need for social consensus as a guide to behavior, which is why I put this thread in this particular sub-forum. This is something I've thought about a lot, and written about a lot, over the past twenty years. Here is my latest blog post on the subject:

http://stevebarrera.com/an-emerging-values-consensus/

Rather than reproduce the post entirely, I'll just give the summary of where I think we are headed, based on my own survey of the zeitgeist, totally non-scientific of course:

• Pro-gun rights
  
• Pro-marijuana legalization
  
• Equal rights for LGBTQ
  
• “Counter-culture” mainstreamed (everyone has a tattoo these days)
  
• Pornography accepted
  
• Continued restrictions on abortion, though it will never be fully banned
  
• Justice and police reform
  
• Reform to improve the lot of lower economic classes, even if it’s “socialism”
  
• A path to citizenship for “dreamers,” but immigration otherwise limited
  
• Acceptance of a multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious society, to the chagrin of White Christian Nationalists
  

Thoughts from this group?

[David Horn]

(07-02-2021, 10:51 AM)sbarrera Wrote: I know the thread subject itself probably is immediately contentious. Is there really any kind of values consensus forming in our society? I do think we are gravitating towards one, if not a "consensus" per se then a dominant majoritarian set of values. And it's driven by the Millennial generation, the young adult generation with a strong need for social consensus as a guide to behavior, which is why I put this thread in this particular sub-forum. This is something I've thought about a lot, and written about a lot, over the past twenty years. Here is my latest blog post on the subject:

http://stevebarrera.com/an-emerging-values-consensus/

Rather than reproduce the post entirely, I'll just give the summary of where I think we are headed, based on my own survey of the zeitgeist, totally non-scientific of course:

• Pro-gun rights
  
• Pro-marijuana legalization
  
• Equal rights for LGBTQ
  
• “Counter-culture” mainstreamed (everyone has a tattoo these days)
  
• Pornography accepted
  
• Continued restrictions on abortion, though it will never be fully banned
  
• Justice and police reform
  
• Reform to improve the lot of lower economic classes, even if it’s “socialism”
  
• A path to citizenship for “dreamers,” but immigration otherwise limited
  
• Acceptance of a multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious society, to the chagrin of White Christian Nationalists
  

Thoughts from this group?

Let's say I'm doubtful about the first item. The most affected gun-violence generation is certainly the Millennials, with GenZ not far behind.  That would solidly argue for the opposing view.  I agrree with the other points, with one condicil: immigration is still an open issue.  I doubt our younger citizens have really thought about it that much.  

I'm surprised that Global Warmiing isn't on this list.  Anyone under 40 has to know that it's a ticking timebomb.

[sbarrera]

(07-02-2021, 11:01 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-02-2021, 10:51 AM)sbarrera Wrote: I know the thread subject itself probably is immediately contentious. Is there really any kind of values consensus forming in our society? I do think we are gravitating towards one, if not a "consensus" per se then a dominant majoritarian set of values. And it's driven by the Millennial generation, the young adult generation with a strong need for social consensus as a guide to behavior, which is why I put this thread in this particular sub-forum. This is something I've thought about a lot, and written about a lot, over the past twenty years. Here is my latest blog post on the subject:

http://stevebarrera.com/an-emerging-values-consensus/

Rather than reproduce the post entirely, I'll just give the summary of where I think we are headed, based on my own survey of the zeitgeist, totally non-scientific of course:

• Pro-gun rights
  
• Pro-marijuana legalization
  
• Equal rights for LGBTQ
  
• “Counter-culture” mainstreamed (everyone has a tattoo these days)
  
• Pornography accepted
  
• Continued restrictions on abortion, though it will never be fully banned
  
• Justice and police reform
  
• Reform to improve the lot of lower economic classes, even if it’s “socialism”
  
• A path to citizenship for “dreamers,” but immigration otherwise limited
  
• Acceptance of a multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious society, to the chagrin of White Christian Nationalists
  

Thoughts from this group?

Let's say I'm doubtful about the first item. The most affected gun-violence generation is certainly the Millennials, with GenZ not far behind.  That would solidly argue for the opposing view.  I agrree with the other points, with one condicil: immigration is still an open issue.  I doubt our younger citizens have really thought about it that much.  

I'm surprised that Global Warmiing isn't on this list.  Anyone under 40 has to know that it's a ticking timebomb.

I should have put environmentalism/climate change on there, my miss.

With respect to gun control, based on surveying social media, I just see more support for gun-ownership than gun-control. It's unfortunate that this contributes to gun-violence, but it seems to me to be something we've settled on as acceptable. Like we accept all the risks and negatives of an automobile-dependent society as well.

[sbarrera]

With respect to Global Warming, I should have included:

• Pro-environmentalist policies to deal with climate change
  

(and have update the blog post accordingly)

[Eric the Green]

(07-02-2021, 11:11 AM)sbarrera Wrote:

(07-02-2021, 11:01 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-02-2021, 10:51 AM)sbarrera Wrote: I know the thread subject itself probably is immediately contentious. Is there really any kind of values consensus forming in our society? I do think we are gravitating towards one, if not a "consensus" per se then a dominant majoritarian set of values. And it's driven by the Millennial generation, the young adult generation with a strong need for social consensus as a guide to behavior, which is why I put this thread in this particular sub-forum. This is something I've thought about a lot, and written about a lot, over the past twenty years. Here is my latest blog post on the subject:

http://stevebarrera.com/an-emerging-values-consensus/

Rather than reproduce the post entirely, I'll just give the summary of where I think we are headed, based on my own survey of the zeitgeist, totally non-scientific of course:

• Pro-gun rights
  
• Pro-marijuana legalization
  
• Equal rights for LGBTQ
  
• “Counter-culture” mainstreamed (everyone has a tattoo these days)
  
• Pornography accepted
  
• Continued restrictions on abortion, though it will never be fully banned
  
• Justice and police reform
  
• Reform to improve the lot of lower economic classes, even if it’s “socialism”
  
• A path to citizenship for “dreamers,” but immigration otherwise limited
  
• Acceptance of a multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious society, to the chagrin of White Christian Nationalists
  

Thoughts from this group?

Let's say I'm doubtful about the first item. The most affected gun-violence generation is certainly the Millennials, with GenZ not far behind.  That would solidly argue for the opposing view.  I agrree with the other points, with one condicil: immigration is still an open issue.  I doubt our younger citizens have really thought about it that much.  

I'm surprised that Global Warmiing isn't on this list.  Anyone under 40 has to know that it's a ticking timebomb.

I should have put environmentalism/climate change on there, my miss.

With respect to gun control, based on surveying social media, I just see more support for gun-ownership than gun-control. It's unfortunate that this contributes to gun-violence, but it seems to me to be something we've settled on as acceptable. Like we accept all the risks and negatives of an automobile-dependent society as well.

I guess the Bob Dylan lyric applies. How many deaths does it take till we know, that too many people have died?

The answer, thanks to younger people, may be blowing in the wind.

Automobiles serve a purpose, such a major shopping trips, and provide convenience, flexibility, and autonomy. Guns provide nothing but death. Eventually this USA-only obsession must end, and the guns collected. Until then the USA remains a pariah among developed nations, and truly unjust.

Severe gun control, and strong environment and climate protections, are the two biggest issues of our times. We are headed toward solution on these, but how much can be done in the 2020s on these issues remains up to the voters. Democrats will put them through; Republicans will block them. The choice is blue or red. And the Republicans have a built-in systemic advantage in the Senate and Electoral College, as well as the filibuster, voter suppression and gerrymandering, so how much can get done is not a reflection of public opinion. Opinion favors movement on these and other issues; the system does not.

I think also open borders are going to be the trend. It's good to have some restrictions on the border to avoid too much immigration at once, and to limit inflow of terrorism, drugs and pandemics. But this issue is linked to climate change and the trend toward tyranny, corruption, guns, and gang violence abroad; especially south of the border. The equatorial regions are going to get more and more unlivable as people can no longer survive under global warming and the other conditions. As long as that is happening, people need a place to live, and the only place is to the north-- even though regions to the north may also become more unlivable. The USA is strongly complicit in creating all these conditions too. We are reaping the harvest, and so the winds will blow and the people will come, regardless of Trump and his fanatical xenophobic followers. We are a global society, and people will have to get used to it. Nationalism is passe.

A values consensus is still in formation as the 4T continues, and it will have to be achieved by ballot (red vs. blue) and/or by civil war in the next 8 years. 4 years from now, a trend may be visible, but not now. Even in the 1T, the consensus may not reach a 60% level.

[AspieMillennial]

(07-02-2021, 11:01 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-02-2021, 10:51 AM)sbarrera Wrote: I know the thread subject itself probably is immediately contentious. Is there really any kind of values consensus forming in our society? I do think we are gravitating towards one, if not a "consensus" per se then a dominant majoritarian set of values. And it's driven by the Millennial generation, the young adult generation with a strong need for social consensus as a guide to behavior, which is why I put this thread in this particular sub-forum. This is something I've thought about a lot, and written about a lot, over the past twenty years. Here is my latest blog post on the subject:

http://stevebarrera.com/an-emerging-values-consensus/

Rather than reproduce the post entirely, I'll just give the summary of where I think we are headed, based on my own survey of the zeitgeist, totally non-scientific of course:

• Pro-gun rights
  
• Pro-marijuana legalization
  
• Equal rights for LGBTQ
  
• “Counter-culture” mainstreamed (everyone has a tattoo these days)
  
• Pornography accepted
  
• Continued restrictions on abortion, though it will never be fully banned
  
• Justice and police reform
  
• Reform to improve the lot of lower economic classes, even if it’s “socialism”
  
• A path to citizenship for “dreamers,” but immigration otherwise limited
  
• Acceptance of a multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious society, to the chagrin of White Christian Nationalists
  

Thoughts from this group?

Let's say I'm doubtful about the first item. The most affected gun-violence generation is certainly the Millennials, with GenZ not far behind.  That would solidly argue for the opposing view.  I agrree with the other points, with one condicil: immigration is still an open issue.  I doubt our younger citizens have really thought about it that much.  

I'm surprised that Global Warmiing isn't on this list.  Anyone under 40 has to know that it's a ticking timebomb.

The crime rates are going down. The fear mongering for gun control won't work on me. Millennials are not the most gun affected. The most affected were Gen Xers that lived in the inner city where there were gang wars. Not even suburban or rural Gen X were much affected. I don't go to school and school shootings are very rare.

[pbrower2a]

We are going to need alternatives to the private automobile and air travel. Maybe we will be unable to remove the private automobile from rural areas, but it needs to nearly disappear in places like urban California. Poor people who have nothing else in rural New Mexico have cars, but the middle class in New York City is priced out of automobile ownership. In contrast very poor people on the Rez in Arizona or New Mexico who have little else have a jalopy for that rare trip to the "candy store" (which is my slang for an electronics retailer).  

When I was traveling with my parents in New England in 1993 I noticed motor-coaches labeled "Vermont Tours". These were fall color tours from Greater New York City. That is telling of how people adjust to not having cars. OK, so if you live in New York City and must travel to Jackson, Michigan, you probably take a flight from New York City to Detroit and rent a car in Detroit to get to and around Jackson.

People will eventually be using self-driven, electric cars, so vehicle use will be possible for people who rarely drive a car now. They will get one to a favored fishing hole or whatever is one's favored recreation. Yes, we will need recreation, and with the time that many of us have due to a shortened workweek. More time-consuming activities that allow one to enjoy something like this:

 



One hour is a considerable outlay of time, something that one lacks if one is working two jobs to stave off hunger and cold and to prevent homelessness by paying exorbitant rent to a slumlord. I predict a complete repudiation of neoliberal "Sadonomics" that assumes that the common man exists solely to make people already filthy rich even more filthy rich in a grim, dreary, joyless world for all but the economic elites. One of the symptoms of neoliberal economics is that people are reduced to costly, ephemeral, witless, and ultimately destructive delights. I see salesclerks outside of some dollar store on their breaks, and what are they doing? Smoking. One needs nearly an hour to  fully savor this delightful piece of music. 

Classical music takes time and learning to fully appreciate,  and in view of the stresses that have been the norm for about forty years upon working people one can understand why it no longer sells.

[nguyenivy]

I think the gun thing is 50/50 and while the right to own a firearm in the US will likely still exist, it probably will requirement more rigorous background checks & maybe something like what we have for driving (tests) to be allowed to own one. I don't see porn continuing to be more accepted than it is now. I think it will at most remain as accepted and available as it already is at most. I think given the recent movements in our culture around consent, exploitation, and objectification being a far bigger deal than it was in prior decades, I think porn will start to move into being less accepted soon. Porn, along with sex-work in general, has varying degrees of acceptance or non-acceptance from country to country. I'm surprised to see nothing about environmentalism/climate or corporate power in this list. There has been some backlash in recent years especially in the LGBT community about corporations becoming a bigger presence at Pride events. I don't know how to feel about it. On one hand, it's nice to see more mainstream acceptance, but when does it become just about them doing it because they want more money?

[sbarrera]

(07-04-2021, 02:55 PM)nguyenivy Wrote: I think the gun thing is 50/50 and while the right to own a firearm in the US will likely still exist, it probably will requirement more rigorous background checks & maybe something like what we have for driving (tests) to be allowed to own one. I don't see porn continuing to be more accepted than it is now. I think it will at most remain as accepted and available as it already is at most. I think given the recent movements in our culture around consent, exploitation, and objectification being a far bigger deal than it was in prior decades, I think porn will start to move into being less accepted soon. Porn, along with sex-work in general, has varying degrees of acceptance or non-acceptance from country to country. I'm surprised to see nothing about environmentalism/climate or corporate power in this list. There has been some backlash in recent years especially in the LGBT community about corporations becoming a bigger presence at Pride events. I don't know how to feel about it. On one hand, it's nice to see more mainstream acceptance, but when does it become just about them doing it because they want more money?

With respect to both porn and LGBT acceptance (not trying to equate them) you have to consider what a sea change that represents compared to social standards in the US 75 years ago, at the start of the saeculum. Back in the 1950s both pornography and LGBT were completely underground. And at the dawn of the Culture Wars, red-state warriors were fighting to suppress them, but not so much any more. At best there is an effort to uphold red-staters' right to shun homosexuals if they want to, but I don't see how gay people are going back in the closet. And I don't see how our society is getting scrubbed clean of porn - it's become a mainstream part of the social media universe, with "content creator" sites like OnlyFans and with major porn sites having their own Twitter accounts.

[pbrower2a]

(07-04-2021, 02:55 PM)nguyenivy Wrote: I think the gun thing is 50/50 and while the right to own a firearm in the US will likely still exist, it probably will requirement more rigorous background checks & maybe something like what we have for driving (tests) to be allowed to own one.

Sport hunting isn't going away. Target shooting isn't going away. If I live in bear or cougar country, then I am keeping some heat. If I am in the sheep business, then I am keeping a firearm to kill any critter that threatens my sheep... and that includes Canis tigris.  

This is what your dog looks like to a sheep:



except for the stripes (OK. there are brindle dogs that actually have tiger-like stripes).  

Quote:I don't see porn continuing to be more accepted than it is now. I think it will at most remain as accepted and available as it already is at most. I think given the recent movements in our culture around consent, exploitation, and objectification being a far bigger deal than it was in prior decades, I think porn will start to move into being less accepted soon. 

I already see a reaction to it. It is not innocuous material. It can debase human relationships by distorting sexuality into something unpleasant. The suicide rate among those involved in its production as "stars" is astronomical. Men who use it have a high likelihood of debasing women into sex objects, even to her sexual organs to the exclusion of all other attributes of her personality.  Gentle erotica and artistic depictions of nudity may not qualify as pornography because such would automatically pass the "Serious Literary, Artistic, Political, and Scientific (SLAPS) criteria that have typically distinguished licit pornography from the rest.  Now anything seems to go.

What may be legally tolerated might not remain socially tolerated. I might not want to get involved in someone heavily enmeshed in pornography as a "collector". 



Pornography can be the guide to abusive, humiliating, destructive, exploitative sex.  


I think we can see the difference. One brings ephemeral delight, perhaps with much pain to the other. The other... well, it requires much sophistication.     

Quote:I think given the recent movements in our culture around consent, exploitation, and objectification being a far bigger deal than it was in prior decades, I think porn will start to move into being less accepted soon. Porn, along with sex-work in general, has varying degrees of acceptance or non-acceptance from country to country.

I can imagine people deciding that, upon discovering a trove of porn tucked away into a supposedly-hidden trove, to destroy it and confront tis owner. Then again, what does one call erotica that encourages and fosters the sort of sexuality that I see in the "Do you know the difference?" poster? 

If I had the talent for writing this I could make a fortune. 

Quote:I'm surprised to see nothing about environmentalism/climate or corporate power in this list. There has been some backlash in recent years especially in the LGBT community about corporations becoming a bigger presence at Pride events. I don't know how to feel about it. On one hand, it's nice to see more mainstream acceptance, but when does it become just about them doing it because they want more money?

Commercialism is an inextricable part of the American Way of Life. Everyone irrespective of sexual orientation is a potential market for commercial products from detergents to motor vehicles. Maybe even cars might have options more preferred among LGBT people in the various categories. 

It is better that identifiable groups be directions of advertising efforts than as objects of ridicule for commercial gain. It may have been profitable to ridicule gays and lesbians at one time in American media... I am glad that that is over. I've experienced homophobia directed at me, and it was not pleasant even if it got my orientation wrong. The anger and contempt scared me.

Think of mixed-race couples. Muskegon, Michigan has a tourist guide that features a mixed-race couple (black husband, white wife) and their biracial daughter -- on the cover. Not so long ago this would have been unthinkable, an abomination to a majority of Americans. There are far more such families now, and we might as well accept the reality. It used to be shocking; we now see it often and are compelled to adapt. 

This said, if I had a daughter there would be certain things red flags that I would warn her about in men. If he talks about women derisively, then that he sees her as an exception is most likely hypocrisy or a lie. "Bitch"? (Ironically, dogs are among the best mothers in the animal world, and they protect their puppies as ferociously as any bear or Big Cat). A piece of anatomy or the vulgar word for copulation? Run!

[Eric the Green]

I see target and sport shooting going away. There is no sport for just murdering other intelligent beings and robbing them of life just for sport. I don't think so. But porn is so popular online I don't see it going away. Sex and sexual pleasure certainly isn't, and the increased prohibitions in this era will only increase the drive. But sex will be less and less about dominance and taking advantage of superior power by one gender over another. Women's rights and power is not going away; only increasing.

[Captain Genet]

(07-02-2021, 10:51 AM)sbarrera Wrote:

• Pro-gun rights
  
• Pro-marijuana legalization
  
• Equal rights for LGBTQ
  
• “Counter-culture” mainstreamed (everyone has a tattoo these days)
  
• Pornography accepted
  
• Continued restrictions on abortion, though it will never be fully banned
  
• Justice and police reform
  
• Reform to improve the lot of lower economic classes, even if it’s “socialism”
  
• A path to citizenship for “dreamers,” but immigration otherwise limited
  
• Acceptance of a multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious society, to the chagrin of White Christian Nationalists
  

Yes, I think it's an accurate description for the Millennial consensus. I would add:

[*] No genetic modifications of human beings
[*] Religion accepted as part of private life, but not an influence in legislation
[*] Strong concern for global warming
[*] Rejection of radical feminism and radical masculism (incels, manosphere, etc.)
[*] Cohabitation without marriage seen as the norm, casual sex seen as a part of growing up

The millennial consensus will probably crack down on both right-wing opposition (Christian fundamentalists, libertarians, racists) and left-wing opposition (anti-porn radical feminists, true socialists), though the attacks on right-wing oppositions will be likely stronger.

During the 2T we will likely see resurgence of both puritanical Christianity and anti-technology socialism. High social freedom and digital technologies will be likely seen as one thing, a "digital Sodom" for the rightist sector of the Awakening and "decadent technocapitalism" for the leftist sector.

[Captain Genet]

(07-04-2021, 06:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Sport hunting isn't going away. Target shooting isn't going away. If I live in bear or cougar country, then I am keeping some heat. If I am in the sheep business, then I am keeping a firearm to kill any critter that threatens my sheep... and that includes Canis tigris.  

Animals hunt other animals, so it makes no sense to outlaw it for humans. It makes to sense to ban something that is a part of Nature to protect Nature. But perhaps limits on hunting will be executed more vigorously in the 1T, to prevent species from becoming endagered. In the 2T, the limits should stay the same, but in the 3T I'd expect a lot of uncontrolled hunting by fierce neo-Lost lads.

(07-04-2021, 06:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

Quote:I don't see porn continuing to be more accepted than it is now. I think it will at most remain as accepted and available as it already is at most. I think given the recent movements in our culture around consent, exploitation, and objectification being a far bigger deal than it was in prior decades, I think porn will start to move into being less accepted soon. 

I already see a reaction to it. It is not innocuous material. It can debase human relationships by distorting sexuality into something unpleasant. The suicide rate among those involved in its production as "stars" is astronomical. Men who use it have a high likelihood of debasing women into sex objects, even to her sexual organs to the exclusion of all other attributes of her personality.  Gentle erotica and artistic depictions of nudity may not qualify as pornography because such would automatically pass the "Serious Literary, Artistic, Political, and Scientific (SLAPS) criteria that have typically distinguished licit pornography from the rest.  Now anything seems to go.

What may be legally tolerated might not remain socially tolerated. I might not want to get involved in someone heavily enmeshed in pornography as a "collector". 

This will be likely the dominant thinking among neo-Missionary women, who will develop this attitude against catching their fathers spanking the monkey in from of their smartphones. For millennials, porn is an accepted "bad habit" like smoking was for the GIs.

[AspieMillennial]

(07-05-2021, 04:38 AM)Captain Genet Wrote:

(07-02-2021, 10:51 AM)sbarrera Wrote:

• Pro-gun rights
  
• Pro-marijuana legalization
  
• Equal rights for LGBTQ
  
• “Counter-culture” mainstreamed (everyone has a tattoo these days)
  
• Pornography accepted
  
• Continued restrictions on abortion, though it will never be fully banned
  
• Justice and police reform
  
• Reform to improve the lot of lower economic classes, even if it’s “socialism”
  
• A path to citizenship for “dreamers,” but immigration otherwise limited
  
• Acceptance of a multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious society, to the chagrin of White Christian Nationalists
  

Yes, I think it's an accurate description for the Millennial consensus. I would add:

[*] No genetic modifications of human beings
[*]Religion accepted as part of private life, but not an influence in legislation
[*]Strong concern for global warming
[*]Rejection of radical feminism and radical masculism (incels, manosphere, etc.)
[*]Cohabitation without marriage seen as the norm, casual sex seen as a part of growing up

The millennial consensus will probably crack down on both right-wing opposition (Christian fundamentalists, libertarians, racists) and left-wing opposition (anti-porn radical feminists, true socialists), though the attacks on right-wing oppositions will be likely stronger.

During the 2T we will likely see resurgence of both puritanical Christianity and anti-technology socialism. High social freedom and digital technologies will be likely seen as one thing, a "digital Sodom" for the rightist sector of the Awakening and "decadent technocapitalism" for the leftist sector.

[*]
Should Millennials who disagree with the majority be separated and closed off in our own communities? I think that's the only answer. If the mainstream doesn't accept us, we need separatism and to close ourselves off.

[AspieMillennial]

(07-05-2021, 04:52 AM)Captain Genet Wrote:

(07-04-2021, 06:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Sport hunting isn't going away. Target shooting isn't going away. If I live in bear or cougar country, then I am keeping some heat. If I am in the sheep business, then I am keeping a firearm to kill any critter that threatens my sheep... and that includes Canis tigris.  

Animals hunt other animals, so it makes no sense to outlaw it for humans. It makes to sense to ban something that is a part of Nature to protect Nature. But perhaps limits on hunting will be executed more vigorously in the 1T, to prevent species from becoming endagered. In the 2T, the limits should stay the same, but in the 3T I'd expect a lot of uncontrolled hunting by fierce neo-Lost lads.

(07-04-2021, 06:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

Quote:I don't see porn continuing to be more accepted than it is now. I think it will at most remain as accepted and available as it already is at most. I think given the recent movements in our culture around consent, exploitation, and objectification being a far bigger deal than it was in prior decades, I think porn will start to move into being less accepted soon. 

I already see a reaction to it. It is not innocuous material. It can debase human relationships by distorting sexuality into something unpleasant. The suicide rate among those involved in its production as "stars" is astronomical. Men who use it have a high likelihood of debasing women into sex objects, even to her sexual organs to the exclusion of all other attributes of her personality.  Gentle erotica and artistic depictions of nudity may not qualify as pornography because such would automatically pass the "Serious Literary, Artistic, Political, and Scientific (SLAPS) criteria that have typically distinguished licit pornography from the rest.  Now anything seems to go.

What may be legally tolerated might not remain socially tolerated. I might not want to get involved in someone heavily enmeshed in pornography as a "collector". 

This will be likely the dominant thinking among neo-Missionary women, who will develop this attitude against catching their fathers spanking the monkey in from of their smartphones. For millennials, porn is an accepted "bad habit" like smoking was for the GIs.

I see pornography as a form of leftism. I would ban the Millennials from most porn and ban the neo missionaries from getting abortions or from divorcing too often. I'm so used to being in a minority view of my generation I don't care if the majority doesn't want this.

[Captain Genet]

(07-05-2021, 04:59 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: I see pornography as a form of leftism. I would ban the Millennials from most porn and ban the neo missionaries from getting abortions or from divorcing too often. I'm so used to being in a minority view of my generation I don't care if the majority doesn't want this.

Pornography is almost 100% commercial so I'd put it in the Libertarian (aka Plutocratic) sector of my compass, with some presence in the Inclusivist sector, though the latter tend to say things like:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/?s=pornography

Divorce is already less common with people marrying after years of cohabitation if at all.

Banning abortion for foetuses with serious genetic defects, or for pregnancies resulting from rape is just cruel. More like something Satan could come up with, than the merciful Jesus.

[AspieMillennial]

(07-05-2021, 05:40 AM)Captain Genet Wrote:

(07-05-2021, 04:59 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: I see pornography as a form of leftism. I would ban the Millennials from most porn and ban the neo missionaries from getting abortions or from divorcing too often. I'm so used to being in a minority view of my generation I don't care if the majority doesn't want this.

Pornography is almost 100% commercial so I'd put it in the Libertarian (aka Plutocratic) sector of my compass, with some presence in the Inclusivist sector, though the latter tend to say things like:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/?s=pornography

It is socially left wing. Maybe it isn't fiscally left wing. The SJWs are for porn. Most abortion is not in those cases though. Most abortion is simply because a woman finds the baby inconvenient or in the future it will be because the baby isn't "normal" when we can test fetal neurology. What about the suffering the baby goes through?

[sbarrera]

(07-05-2021, 05:42 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(07-05-2021, 05:40 AM)Captain Genet Wrote:

(07-05-2021, 04:59 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: I see pornography as a form of leftism. I would ban the Millennials from most porn and ban the neo missionaries from getting abortions or from divorcing too often. I'm so used to being in a minority view of my generation I don't care if the majority doesn't want this.

Pornography is almost 100% commercial so I'd put it in the Libertarian (aka Plutocratic) sector of my compass, with some presence in the Inclusivist sector, though the latter tend to say things like:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/?s=pornography

It is socially left wing. Maybe it isn't fiscally left wing. The SJWs are for porn. Most abortion is not in those cases though. Most abortion is simply because a woman finds the baby inconvenient or in the future it will be because the baby isn't "normal" when we can test fetal neurology. What about the suffering the baby goes through?

There is literally a link here to a feminist site filled with articles condemning pornography. So how can you say that "SJWs are for porn?" Also, I bet you a big percentage of the participants at a MAGA rally are into porn. There's a lot of libertarian sentiment on that side - old Boomers and GenXers who are still into sex, drugs and rock n' roll. 

The point of the "consensus list" isn't to say that either SJWs or MAGAs are having their way, but that as a whole we're approaching some kind of resolution of these issues. And I do agree with what pbrower posted, about all the harmful effects of pornography. I don't think it's good that it's become accepted, just noting that it has.

[beechnut79]

(07-05-2021, 05:42 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(07-05-2021, 05:40 AM)Captain Genet Wrote:

(07-05-2021, 04:59 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: I see pornography as a form of leftism. I would ban the Millennials from most porn and ban the neo missionaries from getting abortions or from divorcing too often. I'm so used to being in a minority view of my generation I don't care if the majority doesn't want this.

Pornography is almost 100% commercial so I'd put it in the Libertarian (aka Plutocratic) sector of my compass, with some presence in the Inclusivist sector, though the latter tend to say things like:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/?s=pornography

It is socially left wing. Maybe it isn't fiscally left wing. The SJWs are for porn. Most abortion is not in those cases though. Most abortion is simply because a woman finds the baby inconvenient or in the future it will be because the baby isn't "normal" when we can test fetal neurology. What about the suffering the baby goes through?

I find it interesting that porn has been widely accepted and yet paid sex work hasn’t. But while you talk about it creating problems, so do both alcohol and tobacco. The former was already criminalized once in our history and the latter has become more and more condemned over time.

[Eric the Green]

(07-05-2021, 04:52 AM)Captain Genet Wrote:

(07-04-2021, 06:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Sport hunting isn't going away. Target shooting isn't going away. If I live in bear or cougar country, then I am keeping some heat. If I am in the sheep business, then I am keeping a firearm to kill any critter that threatens my sheep... and that includes Canis tigris.  

Animals hunt other animals, so it makes no sense to outlaw it for humans. It makes to sense to ban something that is a part of Nature to protect Nature. But perhaps limits on hunting will be executed more vigorously in the 1T, to prevent species from becoming endagered. In the 2T, the limits should stay the same, but in the 3T I'd expect a lot of uncontrolled hunting by fierce neo-Lost lads.

(07-04-2021, 06:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

Quote:I don't see porn continuing to be more accepted than it is now. I think it will at most remain as accepted and available as it already is at most. I think given the recent movements in our culture around consent, exploitation, and objectification being a far bigger deal than it was in prior decades, I think porn will start to move into being less accepted soon. 

I already see a reaction to it. It is not innocuous material. It can debase human relationships by distorting sexuality into something unpleasant. The suicide rate among those involved in its production as "stars" is astronomical. Men who use it have a high likelihood of debasing women into sex objects, even to her sexual organs to the exclusion of all other attributes of her personality.  Gentle erotica and artistic depictions of nudity may not qualify as pornography because such would automatically pass the "Serious Literary, Artistic, Political, and Scientific (SLAPS) criteria that have typically distinguished licit pornography from the rest.  Now anything seems to go.

What may be legally tolerated might not remain socially tolerated. I might not want to get involved in someone heavily enmeshed in pornography as a "collector". 

This will be likely the dominant thinking among neo-Missionary women, who will develop this attitude against catching their fathers spanking the monkey in front of their smartphones. For millennials, porn is an accepted "bad habit" like smoking was for the GIs.

Animals hunting other animals does not justify humans hunting other humans. Humans are different and an individual human life has too great a value just to be a victim of sport hunting and gun obsession.

Porn and sexual perversion as well as abortion and divorce should be and probably are decreasing, just as crime has been decreasing as we reach toward the early 1T, in accordance with the saeculum. "What may be legally tolerated might not remain socially tolerated", and that's how it should be in my opinion. But then, I'm basically an early 2T kinda guy.