Do millennials have a closet fascination with masculinity?

[JasonBlack]

Millennials are the first generation to really open their arms to the most extreme tenants of feminism. On the surface, they'll talk about "toxic masculinity" this, "rape culture" that, and develop some of the most complicated and ever-shifting rules of engagement when it comes to gender relationships and dating, but when you look below the surface...is this really what they want? If we look at both of them separately


men:
- Call of Duty
- PUA/"How to be an Alpha Male" courses
- gym bro culture
- put a lot of effort into being a "badass" (but they are ashamed of this, and consider it a cardinal sin to pursue it overtly)
- RPGs, MMOs, first person shooters....video games all focus on strength, overcoming enemies, etc

women:
- 50 Shades of Grey 
- tendency to hopelessly fall for "bad boys"
- "must be this tall to ride", size queens, 
- demand supreme confidence from sexual partners 
- growing contempt for male feminists who claim to be supportive and give them what they want

Action movies do well with millennials, but the more recent attempts to feminize that space, while giving them what they say they want, have tanked in recent years and been met with some serious backlash. 

Neil Howe wrote in The 4th Turning and Generations about how millennials would eventually grow into a more conservative, sexually-differentiated generation, and the more I look at the trends...he just might be right.

[JasonBlack]

The thing that bothers me though is that 20-40 year old millennials still sexually differentiate themselves in a way that seems like girls and boys rather than women and men. Millennial men still don't have a grasp of how to truly be dignified, authoritative or decisive. Millennial women still don't have a grasp on how to be sultry, graceful, motherly, etc.

[David Horn]

(02-23-2022, 09:45 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: The thing that bothers me though is that 20-40 year old millennials still sexually differentiate themselves in a way that seems like girls and boys rather than women and men. Millennial men still don't have a grasp of how to truly be dignified, authoritative or decisive. Millennial women still don't have a grasp on how to be sultry, graceful, motherly, etc.

OK, but then Boomers and Xers didn't at that age either.   I think it has to do with how we've learned to interact since the loss of formality in the '70s.

[sbarrera]

(02-23-2022, 10:26 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-23-2022, 09:45 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: The thing that bothers me though is that 20-40 year old millennials still sexually differentiate themselves in a way that seems like girls and boys rather than women and men. Millennial men still don't have a grasp of how to truly be dignified, authoritative or decisive. Millennial women still don't have a grasp on how to be sultry, graceful, motherly, etc.

OK, but then Boomers and Xers didn't at that age either.   I think it has to do with how we've learned to interact since the loss of formality in the '70s.

I agree; there's been a general loss of formality in our culture. Just look at how people behave in a period show like The Gilded Age and compare it to every day interactions today.

[sbarrera]

But to the original point of this thread, I do think Millennials yearn for a more favorable society-wide perception of masculinity, given that they have generally only experienced masculinity being maligned throughout their lives. "Closet fascination" is a good way to put it and I think Jason is spot on with his list of trends.

[Eric the Green]

(02-23-2022, 12:35 PM)sbarrera Wrote:

(02-23-2022, 10:26 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-23-2022, 09:45 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: The thing that bothers me though is that 20-40 year old millennials still sexually differentiate themselves in a way that seems like girls and boys rather than women and men. Millennial men still don't have a grasp of how to truly be dignified, authoritative or decisive. Millennial women still don't have a grasp on how to be sultry, graceful, motherly, etc.

OK, but then Boomers and Xers didn't at that age either.   I think it has to do with how we've learned to interact since the loss of formality in the '70s.

I agree; there's been a general loss of formality in our culture. Just look at how people behave in a period show like The Gilded Age and compare it to every day interactions today.

I think you guys have a point. I think the informality was fine as far as it went in the 1970s, and even into the 80s. Nowadays it has gone overboard. I watch the new quiz shows, and I am bothered by how unruly all these phony "celebrities" are, loud and obnoxious, and they seem to think we are interested in anything they say just because of who they are. I compare them with the real celebrities on the buzzr quiz show oldies channel, with shows from the 1950s to the 80s, and I long for the old days. The paragon of formality, who insisted on such manners, was John Daly, original host of What's My Line. And panelist Arlene Francis was the epitomy of charm and grace, and she could still be seen on shows in the 1980s. And of course we will all miss Betty White.

Still, Alex Trebek was great, the new hosts of Jeopardy are great, as is Pat Sajak, but these 2 shows just have regular people on and they seem fine. So it's also pretty hard to generalize. There are plenty of people around who still have some sense of decorum and respectfulness. On the other hand, Family Feud's host, its contestants and the questions are somewhat too riske, you could say.

[JasonBlack]

(02-23-2022, 01:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-23-2022, 12:35 PM)sbarrera Wrote:

(02-23-2022, 10:26 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-23-2022, 09:45 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: The thing that bothers me though is that 20-40 year old millennials still sexually differentiate themselves in a way that seems like girls and boys rather than women and men. Millennial men still don't have a grasp of how to truly be dignified, authoritative or decisive. Millennial women still don't have a grasp on how to be sultry, graceful, motherly, etc.

OK, but then Boomers and Xers didn't at that age either.   I think it has to do with how we've learned to interact since the loss of formality in the '70s.

I agree; there's been a general loss of formality in our culture. Just look at how people behave in a period show like The Gilded Age and compare it to every day interactions today.

I think you guys have a point. I think the informality was fine as far as it went in the 1970s, and even into the 80s. Nowadays it has gone overboard. I watch the new quiz shows, and I am bothered by how unruly all these phony "celebrities" are, loud and obnoxious, and they seem to think we are interested in anything they say just because of who they are. I compare them with the real celebrities on the buzzr quiz show oldies channel, with shows from the 1950s to the 80s, and I long for the old days. The paragon of formality, who insisted on such manners, was John Daly, original host of What's My Line. And panelist Arlene Francis was the epitomy of charm and grace, and she could still be seen on shows in the 1980s. And of course we will all miss Betty White.

Still, Alex Trebek was great, the new hosts of Jeopardy are great, as is Pat Sajak, but these 2 shows just have regular people on and they seem fine. So it's also pretty hard to generalize. There are plenty of people around who still have some sense of decorum and respectfulness. On the other hand, Family Feud's host, its contestants and the questions are somewhat too riske, you could say.

Exactly. We need to restore a sense of legitimacy and credibility to everyday life. We've created an era with no leaders people can take seriously and a histrionic culture of "my voice will be heard!" "no my voice!" "no MY voice!", like children fighting over the last piece of pie. Hollywood culture needs to stop scrambling for anachronistic scraps of the 3T. It's time for a correction.