Brexit Results

[Eric the Green]

(06-25-2016, 04:29 PM)Dan 82 Wrote: As a nationalist, left wing populist this type of response strikes me as overwrought for a few reasons

Keep in mind though that most of those who voted to Leave were motivated by dislike or fear of immigration. That is not left wing, and it is not populist. It is xenophobic.

Quote:1)     Military dictatorship is not the only alternative to democracy, unelected unaccountable bureaucracy is another alternative and it’s been the form that’s actually been successful in last few decades.  And the opposition to the EU and much of the current populism is a response to that.

The "unelected bureaucrats" who administer the EU were elected ministers of the various countries. It is the preoccupation with this so-called unelected bureaucracy that may be overwrought. Those who didn't like it were mostly businessmen who want to take advantage of people, by getting rid of regulations that protect the people from them.

Quote:2)     It is absurd to claim that the only alternative to multiculturalism, globalism and open borders is fascism. 

That's true; but it depends on how far the xenophobic reaction goes. This reaction is certainly the root of Nazism and much of fascism.

Quote:3)     I think the globalist; multi-cultural socialism is bound to fail.  Socialism broadly defined requires a high level of social trust and cohesion in order to work while multiculturalism and globalism work best with high levels of individualism.  I view a strong sense of nationalism is an important factor in allowing the masses the challenge the elites.  The few successful left wing parties such as the Scottish National Party and Sinn Féin are also nationalist and populist.

Global multi-culturalism is not something people can control with a vote. That is a delusion. Globalism is just the irreversible trend of our times. People can't shut themselves off in an island anymore. Global communication and transportation make that impossible.

Nor does globalization equal socialism. Socialism is not the inevitable correlate with globalism. But some level of socialism is also necessary for a functioning society today, because of the power of corporations. There has to be a check and balance on their power and their ability to hurt the people.

I don't see any necessary correlation between challenging nationalism, and challenging elites. It depends on who the elites are. Usually nationalists are those who want to protect their status from encroaching interaction and diversity. Nations are just lines on a map. Unless balanced by global institutions, national ones are out of date. They promote war and oppression of some nations over others.

But local institutions, whether "national" or on the community-level, can check the power of elites to take over the large global institutions and run them for their own benefit.

[Eric the Green]

(06-25-2016, 03:51 PM)Dan 82 Wrote: Turnout by age group

8-24: 36%

Did you mean 18-24?

Quote:25-34: 58%
35-44: 72%
45-54: 75%
55-64: 81%
65+: 83%

An important caveat: the younger voters who did vote are probably skewed towards upper end of the socico-economic ladder and support for remain was also positively correlated with socico-economic status.

The strong Remain vote among youth, as well as the support for Democrats and Bernie Sanders among youth in the USA, and greater opposition to Trump among them, disproves Cynic Hero's contention that globalist idealism is something that "boomers" are imposing on young people today. It is rather xenophobia and nationalism that the old are imposing on the young. That is especially true among the older voters in Britain, who are nostalgic for not only the single anglo culture but for their lost empire.

Another important point, is that anti-globalist support for Brexit, though worrisome, does not necessarily correlate with anti-globalist support for Trump in the USA, because a vote for a policy is not the same as a vote for a candidate. Trump is more unpopular than his policies, because of his own record and temperament.

[Eric the Green]

(06-25-2016, 07:06 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

Wiki Wrote:The contents of the competing proposals as well as of the reports on TTIP negotiations are classified from the public,[6] but after a proposed draft was leaked in March 2014,[7] the European Commission launched a public consultation on a limited set of clauses and in January 2015 published parts of an overview;[8] and subsequently increased security over its secrecy.[6]
[/url]
The [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission]European Commission says that the TTIP would boost the EU's economy by €120 billion, the US economy by €90 billion and the rest of the world by €100 billion.[9] According to Foreign Affairs, TTIP aims to "liberalise one-third of global trade" that, they argue, would create millions of new paid jobs.[10] However, a Guardian article by Dean Baker of the US thinktank Center for Economic and Policy Research[11][12][13] argued that the economic benefits per household would be relatively small,[14] and according to a European Parliament report, impacts on labour conditions range from job gains to job losses, depending on economic model and assumptions used for predictions.[15]

1. It's classified and somebody leaked some goodies on it.  Read the above, it's the EU that's trying to ram this piece of shit in secret.  That is not democracy, that's bought and paid for corporatism.

2. It's like NAFTA and it will never, ever create jobs.

3. The EU was more interested in increased security over its secrecy.  That means the EU is a coven of bought and paid for witches.

BUT.... I like witches! They are unfairly maligned by superstitious, dogmatic folks.

I don't know if it's not democratic. The leaders of the EU are ministers from the various countries, who have their positions because of elections in the various countries. Congress decides on trade deals in the USA; they are not directly voted upon. Same thing.

I don't know if I am in favor of the European-American trade deal or not. I of course don't want to see secret corporate control that stifles regulations on labor, the environment, etc. But nothing I see from you or elsewhere is enough to fully make up my mind. I lean in favor, because of the point I made that you are ignoring. Free trade among equal partners on the same economic and political level are good for their economies. The common market helped Western Europe to recover and prosper. The USA and Europe are on a fairly equal footing. The USA and Mexico are not. Neither are the USA and the Asian Pacific Rim. So this European deal is not like NAFTA or TPP.

Quote:You might want to take a gander of Cankles Clinton's big donor list.  I know I did.  That way I know which stocks to research.  Just look at this jewel, it's HUUUGE.  

Rest assured, if neocon hawk Clinton get's elected, I will be watching defense stocks like a hawk!

* hawk award for Rags

Clinton is not much influenced by her campaign money. She is just playing the game, and is all in favor of changing it. She is just not as bold as Bernie in relying on small contributions. She should be, but most Democrats are not, since they consider it "unilateral disarmament." Clinton is more hawkish than Obama, by a degree, but that does not make her a hawk compared to the neo-cons. You keep forgetting, Rags, that over-simplified exaggeration is not a good approach to policy or choosing candidates. Just as over-simplified, brash loudness is not a good approach to music. I see a common link of temperament there in your approach. Bash things! Go overboard! It may be a common attitude among Jonesers and core Xers; I don't know.

Quote:Here's the short edition.  The Greek people have been burned by the bailouts. They are upholding their end on enduring austerity.  However any and all bailout funds go the Greece's creditors and they do nothing to reduce Greece's over all debt load.  Since the problem [ debt load] is not getting solved with the EU's so called solution, Rags proposes the Iceland nuclear option, just default and be done with it.  Greece shouldn't give a rat's ass if it causes some EU zone banks to implode.

I don't know. Austerity is not a good approach. The European economy needs stimulus. They are copying America instead. But Europe was also at a disadvantage because it didn't have a FED. Now it does, and that may help.

I don't know why giving money to Greece's creditors doesn't reduce their debt. Isn't their debt owed to their creditors? I don't know if default and be done with it is the right approach.

But I do know that Greece itself was dominated by economic elites who absorb most of the wealth in that society. Greece needs to take some of that wealth away, as well as get its own small businesses going rather than be too dependent on the state. A state that pays people their salaries, but does not require the wealthy to contribute, cannot be solvent.

Quote:The way I see it, lots of fat cats and elected officials try to justify "what's best for me" with weasel words.  I prefer to be upfront and just come out and say it bluntly.  Of course Eric should recheck horoscope thingies and realize Tauri have an attraction to pecuniary stuff.  

Yes I know. Honesty is the best policy too. Still, people can see further beyond their inclinations if they choose to.

Quote:After Aries comes Taurus.  That means the whole world will than devote itself to pecuniary goals.  I can hardly wait.

Pecuniary goals means greed. That also means support for policies based on greed which you don't like. When money is seen only as a means to ends, not as an end in itself, the people prosper. Seek first the things of the Spirit, and all these things will be yours as well.

The previous period was better, when people could see beyond narrowing limits. I am hoping this time around Taurus also means respect and care for the Earth, and pecuniary benefit through the green energy revolution. When Uranus goes into Taurus in 2018, I expect the green energy industry boom to fully take off.

Quote:Nope, older folks see that TPIP train coming down the track. The UK got off that train before the inevitable
train wreck.

Older folks were voting on cultural and economic xenophobia and resentment against immigrants, not on a trade deal which may happen even despite Brexit.

Quote:Very good.   Ishits are my generic term for  overpriced electronic gizmos.  Some people buy upgrades which are not necessary.   That's an example of herd behavior.

Yes I agree with you on that.

Quote:Well, I have to pick a tribe.  I can't choose Swedish because I don't live in Sweden and I can't choose Cherokee because that's incomplete.

No, you or anyone does not have to pick a tribe. In our times tribes are irrelevant. They mean next to nothing. Geneology is interesting and all, but I am nothing at all like my ancestors and I don't even have much in common with my parents, let alone all the English, Germans and Dutch etc. My identity has been shaped by my own talents and interests, not by my ancestry or which government entity happens to control where I live. Nationality means very little to peoples' real identity, except that people like what they are used to. Diversity and multi-culturalism is relatively new, and people just have to get used to it, since it's inevitable.

Quote:1. Has Eric considered Kulturkampf ?
2. Both Bill Clinton in the 1990's [remember the repeal of Glass Steagall? ] and Hillary are both neo liberals.
To paraphrase Nixon, both the Democratic party and the Republican party are all neo-liberals now.  Yes, there are some exceptions like Sanders and emergant shift/realignment segment of Republicans.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editor...ade-party/
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/de...ill-117066

So, it's a 4th turning and the eagerly awaited realignment is nigh.  The names may remain the same, but the policies will change.

The Kulterkamp was the culture wars, and that's 3T. It influences the 4T, but it's just the reactionary element of it. The 4T re-alignment will be the decisive defeat of reactionary xenophobia, neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism; "the whole lot" as Kenneth Clark might say!

Lumping Clinton together with Republican neo-liberals and neo-conservatives is just more over-simplified thinking. It ain't so; it's a matter of degree. The so-called emergent shift among Republicans is just more neo-liberalism. Trump may be neo-liberalism on steroids, considering his tax and deregulation proposals. There's more to Trump than just his over-wrought and xenophobic opposition to free trade.

Quote:There have been rapes you know..
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/346059

So, it is for good reason that resentment is growing.  Feminists are gonna have a hard time.  Either they defend women in Europe AND demand border controls or they discredit themselves.  There is no other way.  That's a nice feature of 4th turnings.  There arise situations where choices and consequences are demanded.

Sounds like Trump's description of Mexicans. "They're rapists."

Quote:

Quote:But if the English voted against freedom of movement, then they can't have their cake and eat it too.

The folks who voted Brexit are too damn poor to move anyhow. No loss there.

Then what's with their politicians who are trying to "negotiate" a soft-landing for their exit?

Those who voted Brexist are also the corporate elites who want deregulation so they can oppress their people.

Quote:Maybe H1-B similars?  I'd like all H1-B's here to go away.  1-way tickets can be awesome at times.

Don't know what that is.

Quote:I've been to Stavanger Norway.  It's no sweat to get a damn passport.  You don't need papers if you have a passport.  I think that's all that will be required.  Norway has no special stuff for US citizens.  Swedes yes.

Maybe tourists can go there with a passport, but Brexit is about limiting people from freely living and working in the various EU countries.

Quote:Awwwww, Eric's disappointed in historical Anglo-Saxon behavior. We're gonna be allies due to historical tribal ties.
Canada, Australia, US, UK, and New Zealand have long lived tribal and historical ties.  Tribal ties are also the main reason our dodos at the state department and defense department can't figure out the Middle East.

Maybe; the anglo-sphere will still exist. But yes, I am disappointed. But, of course, xenophobia is not limited to anglos. The Middle East is far more tribal than the anglo-sphere. We're supposed to be better than that; not sink back toward their level.

Quote:1. Yes, different deals.
2. Both are huge bull markets for Monsanto and Exxon Mobil though.  Perhaps Eric can feather his nest ... just like Rags.  I can't decide if said trade agreements get ratified, but I can make investment choices based on ratification or non ratification.

I don't know; Europe restricts GMOs and other Monsanto misbehavior. The European trade deal may not be as corporate as the TPP and NAFTA. Since Europe has better regulations against corporate takeovers and misbehavior compared to America, if anything it may be LESS favorable to the big companies to HAVE the trade deal than NOT to have it.

Meanwhile, the best investment advice is not to pick and choose but to invest in indexed funds. Knowledgable people have proven this to be the fact. Just relax and don't try to pick and choose. You lose that way. The market moves too fast, and big investors have a huge advantage over the little guy.

[Dan '82]

Megan McArdle who I usually don't like has some good thoughts on the Brexit:

Quote:I didn’t think it would actually happen.
Sitting in an airport with middle-class Britons last week, I heard far more support for leaving the European Union than for staying in. But heading into Thursday's voting, I couldn’t quite believe it.
I didn’t think it would happen simply because things like this usually don’t. The status quo is a powerful totem. People don’t like jumping off into the unknown. As polls moved toward Remain in the waning days of the campaign, I assumed that we were seeing the usual pattern: People flirt with the new, dangerous outsider, then come home and marry the familiar boy next door.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2...hought-but

When I have the time I’ll write more about this but I’m increasingly convinced that the contemporary “left” is dominated by the Mandarins and people in culturally prestigious but relatively low paying positions who are more concerned about trimming the power of the economic elites than empowering the masses. For those who believe in the double rhythm theory there are clear parallels to the civil when the lower classes, Irish immigrant Copperheads in the north and Unionists in the upland south, weren’t interested in fighting a war between the elites.

[Dan '82]

http://fredrikdeboer.com/2016/06/26/ever...correctly/

Quote:Though the European Union is a corrupt and anti-democratic institution, I thought and think that the “Brexit” is a terrible idea. I also think that there’s little doubt that racism and nativism played some role, probably a large role, in that decision, and as such it reflects some sinister forces. But I’m seeing tons of people ascribing terrible social views to Leave voters based on a simple misreading of a popular infographic, this one.

Here is what this graphic says: 81% of those who think multiculturalism is a force for evil voted Leave, to pick one example. Which doesn’t say great things for Leave, I grant you. But here’s what I keep seeing people say on Facebook and Twitter, including a distressing number of professional journalists: that 81% of Leave voters think multiculturalism is a force for evil. That isn’t correct! And it makes a huge difference. If you actually bother to look at the actual data set, as Shashank Joshi has, you’ll see that 14% of Leave voters think multiculturalism is “very much a force for ill.”  And that goes for other basic questions of social progress as well. Check out the numbers on feminism:

Even UKIP voters – members of a really noxious, proto-fascist party – are skewed towards viewing feminism as a positive force rather than a negative force, with the largest group found right in the middle at “mixed blessing.” I don’t think these numbers are good, and I wish support for multiculturalism and feminism and assorted were much better. But they aren’t nearly the untrammeled record of pure bigotry that they’re being made out to be in the neoliberal press. The story is much more complicated than “bigots vote to reject immigrants,” much to the dismay of those who want to defend austerity and unfettered financial speculation.
It’s pretty clear what’s happening: liberals have a narrative and misread data in a way that suits that narrative. But the whole point of a media, particularly one which prides itself on “data journalism,” is to correct these misconceptions. What is going on in the media industry where so many professional information-interpreters don’t bother to look at the data, and apparently don’t know how to read a graph?

[Galen]

(06-24-2016, 08:36 AM)radind Wrote: The desire for more autonomy was a big factor.

I think that this will be the theme for this fourth turning.  It is also possible that it will be the theme for the entire next saeculum at least in the west.  All of the governments in the west are functionally bankrupt and it is becoming clear that these debt loads can not be maintained.  Some form of default, though it will not be called that, is inevitable at this point.  There naturally will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth as people realize that life isn't as certain as they thought it was.

It is likely that the UK will suffer some economic pain in the short term.  In the longer term it may very well turn out to be a good thing for the UK since I doubt the entire continent will decide not to trade with them now.  The UK leaving may very well be the first domino that leads to the EU disappearing.

The fourth turning tends to be the wrecking ball that takes down institutions and ideas that have passed their expiration date.  The last eight years have been a last ditch effort to hold the status quo together and it looks like it failed.

[radind]

(06-26-2016, 06:38 PM)Galen Wrote:

(06-24-2016, 08:36 AM)radind Wrote: The desire for more autonomy was a big factor.

I think that this will be the theme for this fourth turning.  It is also possible that it will be the theme for the entire next saeculum at least in the west.  All of the governments in the west are functionally bankrupt and it is becoming clear that these debt loads can not be maintained.  Some form of default, though it will not be called that, is inevitable at this point.  There naturally will be much wailing an gnashing of teeth as people realize that life isn't as certain as they thought it was.

It is likely that the UK will suffer some economic pain in the short term.  In the longer term it may very well turn out to be a good thing for the UK since I doubt the entire continent will decide not to trade with them now.  The UK leaving may very well be the first domino that leads to the EU disappearing.

The fourth turning tends to be the wrecking ball that takes down institutions and ideas that have passed their expiration date.  The last eight years have been a last ditch effort to hold the status quo together and it looks like it failed.

If the UK suffers badly, the other countries may decide to stay in the EU.
It does seem that we are due for a major shake-up from economic crisis (or war).

[Ragnarök_62]

[qutote=Eric The Green] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Baker][/url]BUT.... I like witches!  They are unfairly maligned by superstitious, dogmatic folks. [/quote]

It's just a figure of speech. So yeah, that comparison is an insult to actual witches.

Quote:I don't know if it's not democratic. The leaders of the EU are ministers from the various countries, who have their positions because of elections in the various countries. Congress decides on trade deals in the USA; they are not directly voted upon. Same thing.

Trade deals or anything else for that matter that are kept secret from the public are by definition undemocratic. The People, regardless of nation are the employers of their representatives. That means they have every right to know the particulars of all legislation up for votes. I'd also extend that to stuff like the NSA here in the US.

Eric The Green Wrote:I don't know if I am in favor of the European-American trade deal or not. I of course don't want to see secret corporate control that stifles regulations on labor, the environment, etc.

That's what the TPP for the US is and the TPIP is for Europe and the US.

Quote:But nothing I see from you or elsewhere is enough to fully make up my mind. I lean in favor, because of the point I made that you are ignoring. Free trade among equal partners on the same economic and political level are good for their economies.

They are not good when arbitration panels replace the rule of law. If you want to confirm or deny my assertions, just search for TPP / TPIP on the interwebs and read for yourself.  Do not try this with MSM sites like CNN, ABC, CBS, etc. because you won't find the information there. In fact the MSM has become as relevant to me as the National Enquirer.  They all have the same amount of actual journalism.  https://www.rt.com even beats the MSM.
That's saying something because rt.com is a Russian media outlet.

Quote:The common market helped Western Europe to recover and prosper. The USA and Europe are on a fairly equal footing. The USA and Mexico are not. Neither are the USA and the Asian Pacific Rim. So this European deal is not like NAFTA or TPP.

I don't think it's the common market that's got folks livid over the EU.  It's the power overreach on the part of Brussels.  Arrogant policy makers engender that reaction. In fact in the current 4T, where folks just get angry over the status quo anyhow, that attitude will become a larger and larger lightening rod as time passes.  So also, Congress/US bureaucrats  beware.

Quote:Clinton is not much influenced by her campaign money. She is just playing the game, and is all in favor of changing it.

So why do economic entities just toss money away then?

Quote:She is just not as bold as Bernie in relying on small contributions. She should be, but most Democrats are not, since they consider it "unilateral disarmament."

It isn't unilateral disarmament.   I bet if the DNC got behind Sanders like they did Clinton as per leaked DNC files, then Bernie would have been the nominee. Since I've decided, based on the leaked documents , that the DNC decided to be one sided, I'm going to say the hell with them and again, vote for Jill Stein.  I do not suffer obvious bias by political parties.

Quote:Clinton is more hawkish than Obama, by a degree, but that does not make her a hawk compared to the neo-cons. You keep forgetting, Rags, that over-simplified exaggeration is not a good approach to policy or choosing candidates.

I've researched that topic, as such
http://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/another_...tatus_quo/

Quote:Just as over-simplified, brash loudness is not a good approach to music. I see a common link of temperament there in your approach. Bash things! Go overboard! It may be a common attitude among Jonesers and core Xers; I don't know.

LOL!  Since I'm in that crowd, it's hard to sort out being on the inside looking out.

Quote:I don't know. Austerity is not a good approach. The European economy needs stimulus. They are copying America instead. But Europe was also at a disadvantage because it didn't have a FED. Now it does, and that may help.

Quote:I don't know why giving money to Greece's creditors doesn't reduce their debt. Isn't their debt owed to their creditors? I don't know if default and be done with it is the right approach.

That money goes for interest payments only and does not reduce the debt load.  Since this sort of policy has been going on for years now and there has been no change to Greece's financial situation, default is the best option for the Greeks.  Default by definition means the debt load just goes poof.

Quote:But I do know that Greece itself was dominated by economic elites who absorb most of the wealth in that society. Greece needs to take some of that wealth away, as well as get its own small businesses going rather than be too dependent on the state. A state that pays people their salaries, but does not require the wealthy to contribute, cannot be solvent.

That is a problem, but minor as to the amount of money involved. With that said, yes I agree with you.

Quote:Yes I know. Honesty is the best policy too. Still, people can see further beyond their inclinations if they choose to.

Dunno about that. When I see my economic betters feathering their nests, I say to myself, why not help myself?

Quote:Pecuniary goals means greed. That also means support for policies based on greed which you don't like. When money is seen only as a means to ends, not as an end in itself, the people prosper. Seek first the things of the Spirit, and all these things will be yours as well.

It's a mix of cynicism, anger, and self justification.  I'm not sure which generation(s) suffer from such handicaps, but I'm just being upfront.  The elites do that shit and since anger is the prime thing to get rid of, the act of helping myself makes it go away.  Anger is not a pleasant emotion by any means.  The spirit thingie might work better if/when the thumscrews go away.

Quote:The previous period was better, when people could see beyond narrowing limits. I am hoping this time around Taurus also means respect and care for the Earth, and pecuniary benefit through the green energy revolution. When Uranus goes into Taurus in 2018, I expect the green energy industry boom to fully take off.

But, but, IIRC you by some means there's Saturn messing up Rag's stuff.

Quote:Nope, older folks see that TPIP train coming down the track. The UK got off that train before the inevitable
train wreck.

Quote:Older folks were voting on cultural and economic xenophobia and resentment against immigrants, not on a trade deal which may happen even despite Brexit.

Uh, that's for the most part Boomers.  What happened to that youthful idealism?

Something like this?


Educational posters for migrants that try to get the idea in their head that they are in Austria/Germany now and women are not playthings for males.

Quote:No, you or anyone does not have to pick a tribe. In our times tribes are irrelevant. They mean next to nothing. Geneology is interesting and all, but I am nothing at all like my ancestors and I don't even have much in common with my parents, let alone all the English, Germans and Dutch etc.

I bet you look like some some mix of those tribes.

Quote:My identity has been shaped by my own talents and interests, not by my ancestry or which government entity happens to control where I live. Nationality means very little to peoples' real identity, except that people like what they are used to. Diversity and multi-culturalism is relatively new, and people just have to get used to it, since it's inevitable.

Quote:1. Has Eric considered Kulturkampf ?
2. Both Bill Clinton in the 1990's [remember the repeal of Glass Steagall? ] and Hillary are both neo liberals.
To paraphrase Nixon, both the Democratic party and the Republican party are all neo-liberals now.  Yes, there are some exceptions like Sanders and emergant shift/realignment segment of Republicans.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editor...ade-party/
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/de...ill-117066

So, it's a 4th turning and the eagerly awaited realignment is nigh.  The names may remain the same, but the policies will change.

The Kulterkamp was the culture wars, and that's 3T. It influences the 4T, but it's just the reactionary element of it. The 4T re-alignment will be the decisive defeat of reactionary xenophobia, neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism; "the whole lot" as Kenneth Clark might say!

Eric The Green Wrote:Lumping Clinton together with Republican neo-liberals and neo-conservatives is just more over-simplified thinking. It ain't so; it's a matter of degree. The so-called emergent shift among Republicans is just more neo-liberalism. Trump may be neo-liberalism on steroids, considering his tax and deregulation proposals. There's more to Trump than just his over-wrought and xenophobic opposition to free trade.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/another_...tatus_quo/

I think she's a neocon herself because other neocons like here.  I even have a position in a defense stock, United Technologies in place for the expected Clinton win.  I may not like her, but at least I've done something to profit from her.  Since I can't get those juicy speaking fees like her, at least I can profit from her.  That's another way I mollify my anger.  In short, finding some way, some how to make money on something that pisses me off works wonders to bring peace to my soul.

Quote:There have been rapes you know..
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/346059

So, it is for good reason that resentment is growing.  Feminists are gonna have a hard time.  Either they defend women in Europe AND demand border controls or they discredit themselves.  There is no other way.  That's a nice feature of 4th turnings.  There arise situations where choices and consequences are demanded.

Quote:Sounds like Trump's description of Mexicans. "They're rapists."

Trump may have said that, but I don't recall coming across anything on the internet news sites that confirms that. All I've seen is that Mexicans are pretty much like other immigrant waves in that they tend to assimilate.

Quote:Then what's with their politicians who are trying to "negotiate" a soft-landing for their exit?

and...

Quote:Those who voted Brexist are also the corporate elites who want deregulation so they can oppress their people.

Simple, you answered your own question.  A hard landing would hit the pocket books of the elites pretty bad. Sort of like those messed up Friday markets.

Quote:Don't know what that is.

H1-B is a sort of work visa where companies can hire foreign workers to work in the US.  The intent of the visa is to relive labor shortages.  However it's used in financial engineering to replace US workers with cheap imported foreign labor.

Quote:I've been to Stavanger Norway.  It's no sweat to get a damn passport.  You don't need papers if you have a passport.  I think that's all that will be required.  Norway has no special stuff for US citizens.  Swedes yes.

Quote:Maybe tourists can go there with a passport, but Brexit is about limiting people from freely living and working in the various EU countries.

No decision has all positive results.

Quote:Awwwww, Eric's disappointed in historical Anglo-Saxon behavior. We're gonna be allies due to historical tribal ties.
Canada, Australia, US, UK, and New Zealand have long lived tribal and historical ties.  Tribal ties are also the main reason our dodos at the state department and defense department can't figure out the Middle East.

Maybe; the anglo-sphere will still exist. But yes, I am disappointed. But, of course, xenophobia is not limited to anglos. The Middle East is far more tribal than the anglo-sphere. We're supposed to be better than that; not sink back toward their level.

Quote:1. Yes, different deals.
2. Both are huge bull markets for Monsanto and Exxon Mobil though.  Perhaps Eric can feather his nest ... just like Rags.  I can't decide if said trade agreements get ratified, but I can make investment choices based on ratification or non ratification.

Quote:I don't know; Europe restricts GMOs and other Monsanto misbehavior. The European trade deal may not be as corporate as the TPP and NAFTA. Since Europe has better regulations against corporate takeovers and misbehavior compared to America, if anything it may be LESS favorable to the big companies to HAVE the trade deal than NOT to have it.

TPP/TPIP override any regulations that may keep Monsanto's misbehavior in check.  Under either treaty, Monsanto gains the right to sue over anything that messes up its profits.  

Quote:Meanwhile, the best investment advice is not to pick and choose but to invest in indexed funds. Knowledgeable people have proven this to be the fact. Just relax and don't try to pick and choose. You lose that way. The market moves too fast, and big investors have a huge advantage over the little guy.

It's the 4th turning.  While index funds were the way to go, they are not that way now. Anyhow, to each their own.
I just prefer to have a strategy as such.

Any company I select to buy shares in must have these 2 criteria with just maybe 1 holding that has other favorable aspects.

a. The company must have a strong balance sheet. The debt to equity ratio must be real low or non existent.
b. The company must pay a dividend.*

*If there's a company out there that does not pay a dividend, but has a good balance sheet, then 1 or 2 or those may be allowed.  Case in point,  First Solar.  First solar is obviously a growth type stock, but the kicker was they've sourced a non China supply of tellurium - a necessary input for solar panels.  They own a gold mine in Mexico that also produces tellurium.  So, if China relations go south, it won't hurt them. This company also has a lot of management with skin in the game.  Those positive attributes are sufficient to own this stock.

Schwab has a stock selector where you can select whatever criteria you want.  The criteria I chose came back with less 100 stocks. That means broad index funds do not match my investment goals.

Small investors do indeed have disadvantages.  The best I do is to not become a trader, but rather as per the goals is to find stocks that match a pre defined set of attributes and hold those.  I do not buy "tout stocks" like the stuff Cramer's always spouting off about.  Cramer has never to my knowledge had some list of stocks to get rid of. Sock touters just don't do that.  I just go in twice a year and make sure the stuff I do have still matches the pre defined criteria and chuck anything that no longer matches.  The way I see it, I must have reasons to own a certain set of stocks and if something no longer matches, be frank enough with myself to chuck things without regret.

Now, the regular brokerage account does have a "mad money" dollar amount.  That is used to buy puts [a bet against a lousy company]  when I see such opportunities arise.  Such an event has just materialized and once I've locked in my trade, I'll give Eric the trade info and the reasoning behind it.   

[Mikebert]

Economic elites do not give money to political elites in order to secure favorable policies in matters about which voters care.  Political elites will do what makes political sense on these issues and if the result is bad for economic elites, so be it.  This is understood by economic elites (they are not stupid).  The objective of the money is to secure favorable policy on issues about which voters do not care.

Every year the federal government produces policy on hundreds of things on which voters have no organized opinion.  By donating to a campaign the donor buys access of his lobbyists to the representative's staff members and sometimes the rep himself.  Thus on every issue, the representative's team hears the donors' views.  Secondly the need for raising money from the rich means the rep spends a lot of his time with rich people.  He goes to their homes or places of business, attends fund raisers with them, meets their family and friends.  Much of his social life involves rich people.  When the only people outside of your family who you spend time with are either political or economic elites, how can you maintain the friendships with ordinary people that motivated you to get involved in politics in the first place?  Sen Obama wrote about this in his campaign book. 

All of us are familiar with what it's like to fly, particularly in tourist.  It sucks.  I hate flying. Flying in the corporate plane is really nice, however.  I love flying that way. I went on a business trip to Kentucky years ago when we still had a corporate plane that was not reserved exclusively for executives.  We left in the morning, spent several hours touring a facility in Kentucky and discussing process details and was home for dinner.  Really nice and so much more efficient.  So it is tempting that when a friend makes his personal jet available for you to make a business trip, you might take advantage of the offer, particularly if it lets you get back in time to catch your daughter's soccer match.

[Mikebert]

I think Brexit, opposition to free trade and to globalization comes from the following.  Globalization means that individual national capitalist elites merge into a single international capital elite.  International elites can justify the policies that make them richer at the expense of working classes in developed countries because they do make a lot more of the
global poor (in developing countries) much better off.  That is these policies create the greatest good for the greatest number.

National elites don't think this way.  They focus only on those non-elites inside their own country.  So China's elites, express support for globalization (to gains access to Western markets) but are still primarily concerned about their own countries non-elites because it is through them that they could lose power. 

American elites since Reagan have achieved a split between non-elite Americans allowing them to play off one group against another, particularly on racial lines.  As a result America has two parties representing the capitalist elite and American have cheerfully sacrificed their working classes to globalization because they feel safe from any electoral consequences. As evidence, I give you that many Americans see perceive Donald Trump, who is himself a capitalist elite, as an opponent of globalization.

[Eric the Green]

Over 3 million signed a petition for a re-vote. The top question on google during the vote was "what is the EU?" Lots of younger folks probably didn't know what the vote was all about, and lots of others are having second thoughts. I hope the better course will win out, soon, or someday..........

[Eric the Green]

(06-27-2016, 02:52 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Trade deals or anything else for that matter that are kept secret from the public are by definition undemocratic. The People, regardless of nation are the employers of their representatives. That means they have every right to know the particulars of all legislation up for votes. I'd also extend that to stuff like the NSA here in the US.

Wow, this riff is getting long! Get me my purple pill and a glass of brown ale!

Yes agree, they should not be secret.

Quote: (me)I don't know if I am in favor of the European-American trade deal or not. I of course don't want to see secret corporate control that stifles regulations on labor, the environment, etc.

Quote:That's what the TPP for the US is and the TPIP is for Europe and the US.

If you're right, then I oppose it.

Quote:I don't think it's the common market that's got folks livid over the EU.  It's the power overreach on the part of Brussels.  Arrogant policy makers engender that reaction. In fact in the current 4T, where folks just get angry over the status quo anyhow, that attitude will become a larger and larger lightening rod as time passes.  So also, Congress/US bureaucrats  beware.

Mend it, don't end it. Make the EU more democratic. Don't blow it up. That's what I say. The EU has many positive purposes, but it should allow regional control too and not be controlled by the big money guys. I guess you say that's a feeble hope. But anger over the status quo is something that the media and the politicians like Trump are mis-directing. Hillary is not the Establishment or the status quo. To make change, you need good, thoughtful, experienced politicians like Hillary who know how to make it, not phony capitalist pig posers like Trump.

Quote:So why do economic entities just toss money away then?

They hope for influence, but they don't necessarily get it.

Quote:It isn't unilateral disarmament.   I bet if the DNC got behind Sanders like they did Clinton as per leaked DNC files, then Bernie would have been the nominee. Since I've decided, based on the leaked documents , that the DNC decided to be one sided, I'm going to say the hell with them and again, vote for Jill Stein.  I do not suffer obvious bias by political parties.

No, I don't go there, and would not make that bet, even though I like Bernie better. Hillary won the vote. And it doesn't matter who endorses you; that doesn't define you. Policies, skills and decisions define a politician.

Quote:That money goes for interest payments only and does not reduce the debt load.  Since this sort of policy has been going on for years now and there has been no change to Greece's financial situation, default is the best option for the Greeks.  Default by definition means the debt load just goes poof.

OK I'll take your word on that for now. An interesting topic to explore later.

Quote:Dunno about that. When I see my economic betters feathering their nests, I say to myself, why not help myself?

Because feathering your nest is not what life is about.

Quote:It's a mix of cynicism, anger, and self justification.  I'm not sure which generation(s) suffer from such handicaps, but I'm just being upfront.  The elites do that shit and since anger is the prime thing to get rid of, the act of helping myself makes it go away.  Anger is not a pleasant emotion by any means.  The spirit thingie might work better if/when the thumscrews go away.

The Spirit thingie always works, but it's not always easy to summon given the dense layers of crap that we have on the surface. We need to screw the elites, no question. So, we just do it, and "keep on truckin' "

Quote:But, but, IIRC you by some means there's Saturn messing up Rag's stuff.

Not that I know of right now. That's past by now for you.

Quote:Nope, older folks see that TPIP train coming down the track. The UK got off that train before the inevitable
train wreck.

I think the older folks are just xenophobic and nostalgic for the old days of pure England without all those fereners. Since the TPIP (European-American trade deal I assume you mean) will probably happen anyway, it's irrelevant to the Brexit vote. THAT vote was about stopping the "freedom of movement" whereby "fereners" can come live in Britain and "steal our jobs" (which they aren't doing). Same crap as the Trumpsters.

Quote:Uh, that's for the most part Boomers.  What happened to that youthful idealism?

I don't know. They forgot. They should chill out to some Dead and Marvin Gaye, or rock out to their wonderful British rockers like the imaginer John Lennon & The Beatles, the Stones, Led Zepp or The Who. Older people get lazy and forget who they are. They let their bodies and minds go. I don't agree with that approach to life. Stay as young as you can in all ways for as long as you can.

Quote:I bet you look like some some mix of those tribes.

Maybe, but I also look different. The difference in lifestyle from those old hard days would show. Also, of course, looks don't matter that much, in that regard. My identity is much more than my looks and my DNA.

Quote:I think she's a neocon herself because other neocons like here.  I even have a position in a defense stock, United Technologies in place for the expected Clinton win.  I may not like her, but at least I've done something to profit from her.  Since I can't get those juicy speaking fees like her, at least I can profit from her.  That's another way I mollify my anger.  In short, finding some way, some how to make money on something that pisses me off works wonders to bring peace to my soul.

I dissent from your conclusion. The neo-cons have nowhere else to go. Most of them realize Trump is a wild card and it's crazy to trust him with any kind of codes or any kind of power. Hillary is sensible and a mix of hawk and dove. I would never adopt your way of finding peace with neo-cons. In the case of Hillary, I generally agree with some of her hawkish stances, so I'm OK with her. No doubt she has been wrong on some things too. But, so are all presidents.

Quote:So, it is for good reason that resentment is growing.  Feminists are gonna have a hard time.  Either they defend women in Europe AND demand border controls or they discredit themselves.  There is no other way.  That's a nice feature of 4th turnings.  There arise situations where choices and consequences are demanded.

I don't agree that immigrants are predominantly rapists. You just put them in jail; not exclude refugees who through not fault of their own have to escape tyranny and death at least for a while. I don't understand why some people don't have compassion for these Syrian refugees. It's the tragedy of our time and people need to help them where they can.

Quote:Trump may have said that, but I don't recall coming across anything on the internet news sites that confirms that. All I've seen is that Mexicans are pretty much like other immigrant waves in that they tend to assimilate.

Of course. The point is only that Trump said that, and he got votes for saying it. Votes from Republicans, which proves my contention that they are stupid. Voting Republican proves you are stupid, or at least you've lost your marbles for a while, at least in that area of activity and thought.

Quote:Simple, you answered your own question.  A hard landing would hit the pocket books of the elites pretty bad. Sort of like those messed up Friday markets.

The EU is going to probably do as they should, and let the British elites lie in their own bed. They made their fortunes; let them experience the results of the hard landing they voted and campaigned for.

Quote:H1-B is a sort of work visa where companies can hire foreign workers to work in the US.  The intent of the visa is to relive labor shortages.  However it's used in financial engineering to replace US workers with cheap imported foreign labor.

OK yes; I know that first hand here in Silicon Valley. I think it's mostly used here by companies who think the foreigners like those from India are better educated. I don't think they can get away with not paying them well though, because even foreigners need a place to live, and living here can't happen on the cheap. Maybe elsewhere; but I think these better-educated workers are mostly used in blue states where they have to pay them well in order for them to live here. Blue (especially coastal) states are mostly high tech and have high costs of living. If they are just factory or farm workers, or in plants re-located to red/right-to-work states, less-educated poor migrants will do. There's plenty of those already here.

H1-B hmmmmmmmmmm;;;; sounds like a virus.

Quote:TPP/TPIP override any regulations that may keep Monsanto's misbehavior in check.  Under either treaty, Monsanto gains the right to sue over anything that messes up its profits.  

I'm thinking the Europeans are not going to agree to all that. Have they?

Quote:

Quote: (Eric)
Meanwhile, the best investment advice is not to pick and choose but to invest in indexed funds. Knowledgeable people have proven this to be the fact. Just relax and don't try to pick and choose. You lose that way. The market moves too fast, and big investors have a huge advantage over the little guy.

It's the 4th turning.  While index funds were the way to go, they are not that way now. Anyhow, to each their own.
I just prefer to have a strategy as such.

OK, best of luck with your exams, as they would say in The Village. I note, though, that the reports I saw about indexed funds being the best are very recent, 4T-era reports.

[Ragnarök_62]

(06-27-2016, 11:41 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Wow, this riff is getting long! Get me my purple pill and a glass of brown ale!

Uh, don't folks kinda say the same about you ?  I mean, if there's some sort of issue that one cares about, then there are soapboxes to be had.  I dunno why person x grabs a soapbox at times, but it happens and I just go along to get along.

Quote:

Eric Wrote:(me)I don't know if I am in favor of the European-American trade deal or not. I of course don't want to see secret corporate control that stifles regulations on labor, the environment, etc.

I agree.  You're free to pick whether you want to research it yourself or not. I'm not the one to determine where your priorities lay.

Quote:

Eric Wrote:That's what the TPP for the US is and the TPIP is for Europe and the US. If you're right, then I oppose it. 

  I'm just stating my position based on my research.  This is just something I care about. If I determine that somebody's keeping a legislative item secret, I want to know what it is and why they're not disclosing the relevant information.

Quote:Mend it, don't end it. Make the EU more democratic. Don't blow it up.

This just in.

TaleofTwoTreaties Wrote:If anyone needs another confirmation that the European Union is fundamentally the most anti-democratic entity currently in existence, then the following statement by European Parliament Martin Schultz should put all confusion to rest.

Schulz: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Schulz

Obviously, I beg to differ.  Martin Schluz is obviously an arrogant asshole in dire need of an attitude adjustment.  I say let the dynamite sticks fly.  That attitude is pretty darn pervasive.

Quote:That's what I say. The EU has many positive purposes, but it should allow regional control too and not be controlled by the big money guys. I guess you say that's a feeble hope. But anger over the status quo is something that the media and the politicians like Trump are mis-directing.

Obviously, I again beg to differ.  The EU has gone on longer that its past due date.

Quote: Hillary is not the Establishment or the status quo. To make change, you need good, thoughtful, experienced politicians like Hillary who know how to make it, not phony capitalist pig posers like Trump.

We'll just agree to disagree on Hillary. My vote goes for Jill Stein and I don't want any more details, my mind is made up.

Quote:So why do economic entities just toss money away then?

Eric Wrote:They hope for influence, but they don't necessarily get it.

I refer you to Mikebert's post.  I agree with that and the reasoning suffices to explain my logic.

Quote:It isn't unilateral disarmament.   I bet if the DNC got behind Sanders like they did Clinton as per leaked DNC files, then Bernie would have been the nominee. Since I've decided, based on the leaked documents , that the DNC decided to be one sided, I'm going to say the hell with them and again, vote for Jill Stein.  I do not suffer obvious bias by political parties.

Eric Wrote:No, I don't go there, and would not make that bet, even though I like Bernie better. Hillary won the vote. And it doesn't matter who endorses you; that doesn't define you. Policies, skills and decisions define a politician.

OK, we'll just agree to disagree on whether the DNC runs itself in a "proper manner".

Quote:Because feathering your nest is not what life is about.

That's not the purpose. The purpose is to rid myself of being pissed off.

Quote:But, but, IIRC you by some means there's Saturn messing up Rag's stuff.

Eric Wrote:Not that I know of right now. That's past by now for you.

I thought you said something about Saturn's return and how it messes up folks who are I think 55 to I think 60 political careers. 

Quote:I think the older folks are just xenophobic and nostalgic for the old days of pure England without all those fereners. Since the TPIP (European-American trade deal I assume you mean) will probably happen anyway, it's irrelevant to the Brexit vote. THAT vote was about stopping the "freedom of movement" whereby "fereners" can come live in Britain and "steal our jobs" (which they aren't doing). Same crap as the Trumpsters.

That may be one reason.  I just think political decisions are more multi faceted than melanin content. Globalization and the fallout of job losses , elected officials being bought off, and financial engineering would be other issues.

Quote:Uh, that's for the most part Boomers.  What happened to that youthful idealism?

I don't know. They forgot. They should chill out to some Dead and Marvin Gaye, or rock out to their wonderful British rockers like the imaginer John Lennon & The Beatles, the Stones, Led Zepp or The Who. Older people get lazy and forget who they are. They let their bodies and minds go. I don't agree with that approach to life. Stay as young as you can in all ways for as long as you can.

Quote:Maybe, but I also look different. The difference in lifestyle from those old hard days would show. Also, of course, looks don't matter that much, in that regard. My identity is much more than my looks and my DNA.

But, but, maybe Eric has bad melanin deprivation syndrome.  If Eric goes to the beach and doesn't use sunscreen, he might look like a lobster.

Quote:I think she's a neocon herself because other neocons like here.  I even have a position in a defense stock, United Technologies in place for the expected Clinton win.  I may not like her, but at least I've done something to profit from her.  Since I can't get those juicy speaking fees like her, at least I can profit from her.  That's another way I mollify my anger.  In short, finding some way, some how to make money on something that pisses me off works wonders to bring peace to my soul.  

Quote:I dissent from your conclusion. The neo-cons have nowhere else to go. Most of them realize Trump is a wild card and it's crazy to trust him with any kind of codes or any kind of power. Hillary is sensible and a mix of hawk and dove. I would never adopt your way of finding peace with neo-cons. In the case of Hillary, I generally agree with some of her hawkish stances, so I'm OK with her. No doubt she has been wrong on some things too. But, so are all presidents.

Yes, there is another place for them to go:

Eric Wrote:I don't agree that immigrants are predominantly rapists. You just put them in jail; not exclude refugees who through not fault of their own have to escape tyranny and death at least for a while. I don't understand why some people don't have compassion for these Syrian refugees. It's the tragedy of our time and people need to help them where they can.

1. Do you think they should be screened before entry?
2. Merkel was dumb in saying "just come".
3. I mean, really, even my Swedish ancestors got processed before being just let in. I have photo copies of their immigration documents.

Quote:Of course. The point is only that Trump said that, and he got votes for saying it. Votes from Republicans, which proves my contention that they are stupid. Voting Republican proves you are stupid, or at least you've lost your marbles for a while, at least in that area of activity and thought.

LOL!  I think I found Eric's soapbox.  So, why do you grab soapboxes?

Quote:The EU is going to probably do as they should, and let the British elites lie in their own bed. They made their fortunes; let them experience the results of the hard landing they voted and campaigned for.

I agree.  Confrontation and consequences is the way to go.  It needs to be used more often.

Quote:H1-B is a sort of work visa where companies can hire foreign workers to work in the US.  The intent of the visa is to relive labor shortages.  However it's used in financial engineering to replace US workers with cheap imported foreign labor.

Quote:OK yes; I know that first hand here in Silicon Valley. I think it's mostly used here by companies who think the foreigners like those from India are better educated. I don't think they can get away with not paying them well though, because even foreigners need a place to live, and living here can't happen on the cheap. Maybe elsewhere; but I think these better-educated workers are mostly used in blue states where they have to pay them well in order for them to live here.  Blue (especially coastal) states are mostly high tech and have high costs of living. If they are just factory or farm workers, or in plants re-located to red/right-to-work states, less-educated poor migrants will do. There's plenty of those already here.

http://business.blog.myajc.com/2015/10/1...-overseas/

OK, so why is Sun Trust being an ass and asking current workers to train their replacements?

Btw,  Sun Trust is in dire need of a bank run.  Companies that due that deserve a chapter 7 collapse.

Quote:H1-B hmmmmmmmmmm;;;; sounds like a virus.

It can certainly be thought of like that.  It's like Zika and fucks brains up.

Quote:TPP/TPIP override any regulations that may keep Monsanto's misbehavior in check.  Under either treaty, Monsanto gains the right to sue over anything that messes up its profits.  

Eric Wrote:I'm thinking the Europeans are not going to agree to all that. Have they?

It depends on whether the EU has been bought and paid for and thus serves this up to its masters.

Quote:OK, best of luck with your exams, as they would say in The Village. I note, though, that the reports I saw about indexed funds being the best are very recent, 4T-era reports.

? . I didn't know a fitness club had exams.
http://villageclubs.com/[/quote]

[Eric the Green]

(06-27-2016, 07:04 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Uh, don't folks kinda say the same about you ? 

It's about us, not you.

Quote:Martin Schluz is obviously an arrogant asshole in dire need of an attitude adjustment.  I say let the dynamite sticks fly.  That attitude is pretty darn pervasive.

One statement does not indicate what the rules of the EU are.

Quote:Obviously, I again beg to differ.  The EU has gone on longer that its past due date.

The United States has gone on much further past IT'S due date then.

Quote:We'll just agree to disagree on Hillary. My vote goes for Jill Stein and I don't want any more details, my mind is made up.

These discussions are for anyone who reads them. I'm just fine with a vote for Stein (hey that rhymes; that's divine).

Quote:OK, we'll just agree to disagree on whether the DNC runs itself in a "proper manner".

Well, I don't agree about the primary 2016 election, but I don't have a choice about what you think.

Quote:That's not the purpose. The purpose is to rid myself of being pissed off.

There are better ways, but if investing in whoever wins helps mollify you, well that's your choice. Good luck with it.

Quote:I thought you said something about Saturn's return and how it messes up folks who are I think 55 to I think 60 political careers. 

Everyone has a Saturn return at about age 58 to 59, yes. You are not there yet as I recall. But coming soon for you, I guess!

Here's a nice article on it, from Huffington Post no less:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannon-ka...75974.html
Another nice one:
http://www.judytsafrirmd.com/the-second-saturn-return/

Certainly presidential politicians have a lot of "karma" to face, and they often live according to others' expectations. So the second Saturn Return can be expected to hit them hard, and it almost always does. I suppose in my lifetime LBJ and Nixon were exhibits A and B.

You are the same birth cohort as Chris Christie. I predicted that he was clear of the Saturn Return for this upcoming term (though his horoscope score was not good enough to beat Trump), but that he could not be re-elected. So it's the next term in which Saturn will hit you guys. (So, even if Trump chooses him as his veep candidate, Christie will not be elected president if he runs in 2020).

I can certainly testify personally to the dangers.

Quote:That may be one reason.  I just think political decisions are more multi faceted than melanin content. Globalization and the fallout of job losses, elected officials being bought off, and financial engineering would be other issues.

Probably it's the Leave politicians who are bought off by greedy British businessmen who don't want regulations, as much as European Union bureaucrats who want control.

Quote:Yes, there is another place for them to go:

The point is not that; the point is they (neo-cons) voting for Hillary does not make Hillary a neo-con.

Quote:1. Do you think they should be screened before entry?
2. Merkel was dumb in saying "just come".
3. I mean, really, even my Swedish ancestors got processed before being just let in. I have photo copies of their immigration documents.

1. To the US, yes; and it happens already. Trump's rumblings are superfluous nonsense to get votes.
2. For Europe, it was the compassionate thing to do. Refugees need places to go rather than die in the ocean.

Quote:LOL!  I think I found Eric's soapbox.  So, why do you grab soapboxes?

I don't know what it is. I am just amazed at how stupidly people have voted, and how stupid the people are whom the people elect. And how consistently stupid one whole political party is, as opposed to sometimes stupid the other one is.

And how people seem to let that slide, as if it's getting on a soapbox or being some kind of impolite or culture war boomer or one-sided or whatever term is used to cover up and evade the obvious fact and the obvious remedy. Call it what you want; doesn't change the obvious facts.

How stupid the people are, really boggles my mind. What planet do I live on?

Quote:http://business.blog.myajc.com/2015/10/1...-overseas/

OK, so why is Sun Trust being an ass and asking current workers to train their replacements?

Btw,  Sun Trust is in dire need of a bank run.  Companies that do that deserve a chapter 7 collapse.

That's outsourcing. I don't like that either, but that's not bringing workers here on visas.

Quote:

Eric Wrote:I'm thinking the Europeans are not going to agree to all that. Have they?

It depends on whether the EU has been bought and paid for and thus serves this up to its masters.

I assume that if Europeans don't want the deal, it won't happen. At least I would think and hope so. They have successfully opposed GMOs entering Europe, for example; I know that. So the people there have some say.

Quote:

Quote:OK, best of luck with your exams, as they would say in The Village. I note, though, that the reports I saw about indexed funds being the best are very recent, 4T-era reports.

? . I didn't know a fitness club had exams.
http://villageclubs.com/

From The Prisoner. Required viewing for anyone who opposes the Establishment and how it reduces people.

[radind]

Is the end of nations in our future?

Quote:This article appeared in print under the headline “Imagine there’s no countries…”  By Debora MacKenzie

Nation states cause some of our biggest problems, from civil war to climate inaction. Science suggests there are better ways to run a planet

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2...LOBAL-hoot

"Try, for a moment, to envisage a world without countries. Imagine a map not divided into neat, coloured patches, each with clear borders, governments, laws. Try to describe anything our society does – trade, travel, science, sport, maintaining peace and security – without mentioning countries.”…

… "Once Europe had established the nation state model and prospered, says Breuilly, everyone wanted to follow suit. In fact it’s hard now to imagine that there could be another way. But is a structure that grew spontaneously out of the complexity of the industrial revolution really the best way to manage our affairs?”…

… "Recent research confirms that the problem is not ethnic diversity itself, but not enough official inclusiveness. Countries with little historic ethnic diversity are now having to learn that on the fly, as people migrate to find jobs within a globalized economy.’…

… "“The future structure and exercise of political power will resemble the medieval model more than the Westphalian one,” Zielonka says. “The latter is about concentration of power, sovereignty and clear-cut identity.” Neo-medievalism, on the other hand, means overlapping authorities, divided sovereignty, multiple identities and governing institutions, and fuzzy borders.”…

… "Ian Goldin, head of the Oxford Martin School at the University of Oxford, which analyses global problems, thinks such networks must emerge. He believes existing institutions …. are structurally unable to deal with problems that emerge from global interrelatedness, such as economic instability, pandemics, climate change and cybersecurity – partly because they are hierarchies of member states which themselves cannot deal with these global problems. He quotes Slaughter: “Networked problems require a networked response.””…

… "Nation states are currently the only entities powerful enough to do this.
Yet their limitations are clear, both in solving global problems and resolving local conflicts. One solution may be to pay more attention to the scale of government. Known as subsidiarity, this is a basic principle of the EU: the idea that government should act at the level where it is most effective, with local government for local problems and higher powers at higher scales. There is empirical evidence that it works: social and ecological systems can be better governed when their users self-organist than when they are run by outside leaders.”…

… "“Most hierarchical systems tend to become top-heavy, expensive and incapable of responding to change,” says Marten Scheffer of Wageningen University in the Netherlands. “The resulting tension may be released through partial collapse.” For nation states, that could mean anything from the renewed pre-eminence of cities to Iraq-style anarchy. An uncertain prospect, but there is an upside. Collapse, say some, is the creative destruction that allows new structures to emerge.”…

[Eric the Green]

(06-27-2016, 07:41 PM)radind Wrote: Is the end of nations in our future?

I think so. Good article. It may be a distant future, compared to a lifetime.

[Ragnarök_62]

X_4AD_84 Wrote:Due to the inevitable mismatch between English and Napoleonic legal systems the UK was never a good fit for the EU.

That's plausible.  Let's call it Magna Carta V2.0

X_4AD_84 Wrote:However, what drove the Brexit was nothing logical like that.

What drove it was the collective will of certain Britons who hate blacks and people from India, with a rising hatred of Musliims.

I could be, but there does exist a very, very detached elite who need to be tossed.  As such



While both Angela Merkel and David Cameron, and perhaps Boris Johnson, have been doing all they can to restore some of the badly burned bridges between the UK and Europe over the past week, the European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, perhaps once again under the influence, is seemingly engaged in a one-man crusade to accelerate and crush any last hope of an amicable UK departure with lingering ties to Europe.

As we reported earlier, Juncker pulled a fast one on the EU parliament when he first said that "we must respect British democracy and the way it has expressed its view," a statement that was greeted by rare applause from the UKIP members present. However, Juncker promptly turned the tables when he said "that's the last time you are applauding here... and to some extent I'm really surprised you are here. You are fighting for the exit. The British people voted in favor of the exit. Why are you here?" Juncker continued, breaking from his speech text.
[/quote]

And soforth.  Herr JUNKER is just that, a piece of junk made of German Shepherd shit.  And look at that picture, he ain't my sort of folk. 

LOL, such a spoilsport:  Perhaps the UKIP folks were there to taunt former laughing and after such a haughty response from an arrogant motherfucker,  a final 'give 'em the finger".

Herr JUNKER Wrote:But the coup de grace, to use the proper language, came when as AP reported, Juncker decided to refuse speaking in English altogether. In contrast to recent speeches on Britain's future in the European Union, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker didn't speak English Tuesday as he lamented the U.K.'s departure from the bloc.

No prob, man  I think Swedish should be the official language.

As, follows:
Men nådastöten, att använda korrekt språk, kom när som AP rapporterats, Juncker beslutade att vägra tala i engelska alldeles. I kontrast till de senaste anföranden om Storbritanniens framtid i Europeiska unionen, Europeiska kommissionens ordförande Jean-Claude Juncker inte talar engelska tisdag eftersom han beklagade den brittiska avresa från blocket.

Like they say, close enough for government work.  The only think I agree with wrt Herr JUNKER is yeah, pull the damn article 50 trigger already.

[Eric the Green]

I'm glad Junker said that to that British right-winger. Not that I am sure that I like Junker. I don't know enough to say, but his name is symbolic of the old East-German soldier-aristocrat class from which Bismarck came.

To pull the article 50, Cameron will probably have to resign earlier. He says he's not going to do it; it's up the next PM to do it. Meanwhile, the Brit Parliament has time to consider whether they will actually do it, and some people are pushing and rallying to reconsider. A lot of Brits didn't realize what this would mean. Europe doesn't want to "punish" Britain, but they ain't gonna get their cake and eat it too. They don't want freedom of movement? Then they don't get into the single market. That seems to be the deal.

That right winger with a name that starts with F whom Junker talked down, he even wants to escape from the European Union's "anthem." That's the "best song ever" in the classical orchestral/choral field, you know. To throw that one out is to say that all people are NOT brothers, and that joy is NOT cool. Seems symbolic to me of his retrograde attitude and that of the folks he represents.