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Analysis of the Generations Isn’t an Exact Science
#1
Analysis of the Generations Isn’t an Exact Science  


http://www.wsj.com/articles/analysis-of-...1468575000



Quote:[Image: NA-CK822_NUMBER_9U_20160714180307.jpg] ENLARGE
 
[Image: HC-GS563_McGint_BV_20140627161507.jpg]
By
Jo Craven McGinty
July 15, 2016 5:30 a.m. ET
28 COMMENTS
Baby boomers. Generation X. Millennials.
These are the familiar sobriquets of recent generations, but what exactly defines the cohorts, and what, if anything, do their labels reveal?
A generation, in this sense, refers to people associated with a distinct era of history based on their years of birth. But the cutoffs are fuzzy, and critics charge that the descriptions are little more than insulting stereotypes: Boomers, we’re told, are ambitious workaholics. Gen Xers are disenfranchised cynics. Millennials are self-entitled narcissists.
Name-calling aside, the groupings are attractive to academics and others who want to measure social and cultural change.



http://www.wsj.com/articles/analysis-of-...1468575000


It's a WSJ article, avoid the paywall by cutting and pasting the name of the headline into google.
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#2
I hate other people's ideas of when each generation starts and ends. Most of them are inaccurate. By most accounts the Baby Boomers are regarded as being born from 1946-1964: the years of the demographic Baby Boom. Demographically this is true but culturally this doesn't make sense. This is why S&H believe each generation starts being born a few years before each turning. This Baby Boom mostly corresponds to the 1T, but since the Boomers were actually born from 1943-1960, culturally, they grew up in the 1T and came of age in the 2T. That is what S&H's generational theory says. To further prove this inaccuracy of timing the generations, some accounts say I'm not even a Millennial (usually ending in 1995)! But by S&H's definition, not only am I a Millennial, there are 6 more years of Millennials behind me!

To remind everyone new to the forum, here's what S&H think the generations are:
Silent Generation: 1925-1942
Baby Boomers: 1943-1960
Generation X: 1961-1981
Millennials: 1982-2004
Generation Z: 2005-present

I believe these are the best ideas for the start and end of each generation. If anyone disagrees I recommend they read Generations and T4T, or at least learn about S&H's generational theory online. Sorry for being too vocal about this! I'm just really passionate about this topic!
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again."
—Thomas Paine, Common Sense (1776)

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
—Mark Twain

'98 Millennial
Reply
#3
(07-19-2016, 12:30 AM)MillsT_98 Wrote: I hate other people's ideas of when each generation starts and ends. Most of them are inaccurate. By most accounts the Baby Boomers are regarded as being born from 1946-1964: the years of the demographic Baby Boom. Demographically this is true but culturally this doesn't make sense. This is why S&H believe each generation starts being born a few years before each turning. This Baby Boom mostly corresponds to the 1T, but since the Boomers were actually born from 1943-1960, culturally, they grew up in the 1T and came of age in the 2T. That is what S&H's generational theory says. To further prove this inaccuracy of timing the generations, some accounts say I'm not even a Millennial (usually ending in 1995)! But by S&H's definition, not only am I a Millennial, there are 6 more years of Millennials behind me!

To remind everyone new to the forum, here's what S&H think the generations are:
Silent Generation: 1925-1942
Baby Boomers: 1943-1960
Generation X: 1961-1981
Millennials: 1982-2004
Generation Z: 2005-present

I believe these are the best ideas for the start and end of each generation. If anyone disagrees I recommend they read Generations and T4T, or at least learn about S&H's generational theory online. Sorry for being too vocal about this! I'm just really passionate about this topic!

I remember one person here in NZ telling me he thinks '85 is the start of millies and saying that i am a last wave xer. I just about puked and told him what life was like growing up with my cohort. People do not listen though. I certainly do not relate to xers. The norm of how to raise kids at the time is something i just cannot relate to. In fact the way my mother raised me was more like the silent than millie. But outside influence also shaped me into a "civic." Most do not have a bloody clue.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#4
(07-19-2016, 03:12 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 12:30 AM)MillsT_98 Wrote: I hate other people's ideas of when each generation starts and ends. Most of them are inaccurate. By most accounts the Baby Boomers are regarded as being born from 1946-1964: the years of the demographic Baby Boom. Demographically this is true but culturally this doesn't make sense. This is why S&H believe each generation starts being born a few years before each turning. This Baby Boom mostly corresponds to the 1T, but since the Boomers were actually born from 1943-1960, culturally, they grew up in the 1T and came of age in the 2T. That is what S&H's generational theory says. To further prove this inaccuracy of timing the generations, some accounts say I'm not even a Millennial (usually ending in 1995)! But by S&H's definition, not only am I a Millennial, there are 6 more years of Millennials behind me!

To remind everyone new to the forum, here's what S&H think the generations are:
Silent Generation: 1925-1942
Baby Boomers: 1943-1960
Generation X: 1961-1981
Millennials: 1982-2004
Generation Z: 2005-present

I believe these are the best ideas for the start and end of each generation. If anyone disagrees I recommend they read Generations and T4T, or at least learn about S&H's generational theory online. Sorry for being too vocal about this! I'm just really passionate about this topic!

I remember one person here in NZ telling me he thinks '85 is the start of millies and saying that i am a last wave xer. I just about puked and told him what life was like growing up with my cohort. People do not listen though. I certainly do not relate to xers. The norm of how to raise kids at the time is something i just cannot relate to. In fact the way my mother raised me was more like the silent than millie. But outside influence also shaped me into a "civic." Most do not have a bloody clue.

I definitely agree with you. I know you're a Millennial (even though I know you say it) and not an Xer. I would also have to agree with you that outside influence made me a Civic as well. I'm not sure how to describe me being raised at home. But I can tell the difference between myself and the new Artist generation, just like you and Generation X.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again."
—Thomas Paine, Common Sense (1776)

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
—Mark Twain

'98 Millennial
Reply
#5
(07-19-2016, 11:34 AM)MillsT_98 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 03:12 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 12:30 AM)MillsT_98 Wrote: I hate other people's ideas of when each generation starts and ends. Most of them are inaccurate. By most accounts the Baby Boomers are regarded as being born from 1946-1964: the years of the demographic Baby Boom. Demographically this is true but culturally this doesn't make sense. This is why S&H believe each generation starts being born a few years before each turning. This Baby Boom mostly corresponds to the 1T, but since the Boomers were actually born from 1943-1960, culturally, they grew up in the 1T and came of age in the 2T. That is what S&H's generational theory says. To further prove this inaccuracy of timing the generations, some accounts say I'm not even a Millennial (usually ending in 1995)! But by S&H's definition, not only am I a Millennial, there are 6 more years of Millennials behind me!

To remind everyone new to the forum, here's what S&H think the generations are:
Silent Generation: 1925-1942
Baby Boomers: 1943-1960
Generation X: 1961-1981
Millennials: 1982-2004
Generation Z: 2005-present

I believe these are the best ideas for the start and end of each generation. If anyone disagrees I recommend they read Generations and T4T, or at least learn about S&H's generational theory online. Sorry for being too vocal about this! I'm just really passionate about this topic!

I remember one person here in NZ telling me he thinks '85 is the start of millies and saying that i am a last wave xer. I just about puked and told him what life was like growing up with my cohort. People do not listen though. I certainly do not relate to xers. The norm of how to raise kids at the time is something i just cannot relate to. In fact the way my mother raised me was more like the silent than millie. But outside influence also shaped me into a "civic." Most do not have a bloody clue.

I definitely agree with you. I know you're a Millennial (even though I know you say it) and not an Xer. I would also have to agree with you that outside influence made me a Civic as well. I'm not sure how to describe me being raised at home. But I can tell the difference between myself and the new Artist generation, just like you and Generation X.
Thanks. I mean I was raised on Barney, Captain planet, police coming to schools teaching us about safety in numbers and "stranger danger." We were taught team work constantly and never questioned it. We loved it in fact. I have seen a tightening in protection for wee ones as i became a young adult so i assume we are about ten years into raising the next artists. We were taught to be inclusive which influenced the school yard for sure when we entered the big kids playground. When i was a wee one late xers were the older kids who refused to let me into the big kids area. It upset my cohort so much that when we were the big kids we changed it to let them in but we supervised them so they did not hurt themselves. We were taught to be cooperative and told that we were the hope for the future. But most importantly i remember older folk wistfully wishing for certain qualities that were dying away to return and looking back at my childhood i realize that they were raising us to do just that. When I found this theory i realized which generation those qualities fit. So, haha no i am definitely not an xer! Some of my teachers have been xers as well as a few older students and now co-workers. The things they talk about when they mention how they were raised is odd to me. In some ways i wish i had had the freedom they had. It is something i never experienced. I mean heck i was even grounded for being two minutes late home from school for pete's sake.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#6
(07-19-2016, 11:34 AM)MillsT_98 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 03:12 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 12:30 AM)MillsT_98 Wrote: I hate other people's ideas of when each generation starts and ends. Most of them are inaccurate. By most accounts the Baby Boomers are regarded as being born from 1946-1964: the years of the demographic Baby Boom. Demographically this is true but culturally this doesn't make sense. This is why S&H believe each generation starts being born a few years before each turning. This Baby Boom mostly corresponds to the 1T, but since the Boomers were actually born from 1943-1960, culturally, they grew up in the 1T and came of age in the 2T. That is what S&H's generational theory says. To further prove this inaccuracy of timing the generations, some accounts say I'm not even a Millennial (usually ending in 1995)! But by S&H's definition, not only am I a Millennial, there are 6 more years of Millennials behind me!

To remind everyone new to the forum, here's what S&H think the generations are:
Silent Generation: 1925-1942
Baby Boomers: 1943-1960
Generation X: 1961-1981
Millennials: 1982-2004
Generation Z: 2005-present

I believe these are the best ideas for the start and end of each generation. If anyone disagrees I recommend they read Generations and T4T, or at least learn about S&H's generational theory online. Sorry for being too vocal about this! I'm just really passionate about this topic!

I remember one person here in NZ telling me he thinks '85 is the start of millies and saying that i am a last wave xer. I just about puked and told him what life was like growing up with my cohort. People do not listen though. I certainly do not relate to xers. The norm of how to raise kids at the time is something i just cannot relate to. In fact the way my mother raised me was more like the silent than millie. But outside influence also shaped me into a "civic." Most do not have a bloody clue.

I definitely agree with you. I know you're a Millennial (even though I know you say it) and not an Xer. I would also have to agree with you that outside influence made me a Civic as well. I'm not sure how to describe me being raised at home. But I can tell the difference between myself and the new Artist generation, just like you and Generation X.

My niece is a year younger than you and she is definitely a Civic.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
#7
@Tara,

First let me say that you are very much a civic. In fact one of the most civic people I know and I have adult memories of GIs. That being said there is a great deal of overlap with the generations and not just due to turning. I've postulated in the past that social class and siblings (and to a lesser extent cousins) play a part in the manifestation of ones Nomadness, Civicness, Artistness, and Prophetness.

For example my sister and you share the same birth year yet she is no where near as civic as you are having a clear lean toward civic but having more than a little nomad flavor. That flavor I would argue is the response of being in a household not only having a late wave Xer older brother but also having contact with core and early Xer cousins.

Add to that social class and it has been my experience that those coming from the working class and working poor seem to have an exaggerated level of Adaptives and Nomads whereas in the more well off classes the opposite is true (Civics and Prophets being exaggerated).

That being said, it is my opinion that the S&H dates are perhaps the best, excluding my own of course (but that is mostly because I have problems with the Civil War Saeculum rather than the current saeculum).
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
#8
(07-24-2016, 08:41 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: @Tara,

First let me say that you are very much a civic.  In fact one of the most civic people I know and I have adult memories of GIs.  That being said there is a great deal of overlap with the generations and not just due to turning.  I've postulated in the past that social class and siblings (and to a lesser extent cousins) play a part in the manifestation of ones Nomadness, Civicness, Artistness, and Prophetness.  

For example my sister and you share the same birth year yet she is no where near as civic as you are having a clear lean toward civic but having more than a little nomad flavor.  That flavor I would argue is the response of being in a household not only having a late wave Xer older brother but also having contact with core and early Xer cousins.

Add to that social class and it has been my experience that those coming from the working class and working poor seem to have an exaggerated level of Adaptives and Nomads whereas in the more well off classes the opposite is true (Civics and Prophets being exaggerated).

That being said, it is my opinion that the S&H dates are perhaps the best, excluding my  own of course (but that is mostly because I have problems with the Civil War Saeculum rather than the current saeculum).

Ah that would explain a lot. My grandparents are silents. My mother is a boomer like my uncles. I had zero contact with xers in my personal life. I only looked up to them culturally. But did not get to know these people. My mother also would shake her head at xers antics and tell me to never be like that. The way i was raised as well (being rather smothered but experiencing a civic upbringing at school made me fight my mother to be raised as a civic. I fought to experience the bit of freedom they enjoyed. Pretty much i fought to be more of a civic. Add to it how the earthquakes influenced me. My reaction was to join the sva and build teams to help those who needed the help through answering calls for help on our fb page. It has cemented what teamwork can do with my generation and we still continue to work that way in the work force now. Creating companies that way. But do keep in mind my mother is in severe financial strife...also she raised me on her own. We have always been severely poor. But my mother sheltered me and never let me know how bad things were. Now I am an adult i understand and have decided that we also are a team and i will help her too. As they say no one gets left behind. I had the same mentality as other millies in the group who did not leave anyone behind in desperate times. Especially the sickly and elderly. I have always been poor but it helps me to sympathize with others and to give all i have. Even when i just had a drip coming out of the tap i gave it to others who had none. One poor elderly lady i will never forget. She was in tears and said now she can have a cup of tea. She had no water and was crippled and alone. Broke my heart. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. It was so empowering and important for what we all did and it is wonderful to be part of a community pull-together. We must look after each other for you never know what someone else is going through.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#9
(07-25-2016, 05:37 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-24-2016, 08:41 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: @Tara,

First let me say that you are very much a civic.  In fact one of the most civic people I know and I have adult memories of GIs.  That being said there is a great deal of overlap with the generations and not just due to turning.  I've postulated in the past that social class and siblings (and to a lesser extent cousins) play a part in the manifestation of ones Nomadness, Civicness, Artistness, and Prophetness.  

For example my sister and you share the same birth year yet she is no where near as civic as you are having a clear lean toward civic but having more than a little nomad flavor.  That flavor I would argue is the response of being in a household not only having a late wave Xer older brother but also having contact with core and early Xer cousins.

Add to that social class and it has been my experience that those coming from the working class and working poor seem to have an exaggerated level of Adaptives and Nomads whereas in the more well off classes the opposite is true (Civics and Prophets being exaggerated).

That being said, it is my opinion that the S&H dates are perhaps the best, excluding my  own of course (but that is mostly because I have problems with the Civil War Saeculum rather than the current saeculum).

Ah that would explain a lot. My grandparents are silents. My mother is a boomer like my uncles. I had zero contact with xers in my personal life. I only looked up to them culturally. But did not get to know these people. My mother also would shake her head at xers antics and tell me to never be like that. The way i was raised as well (being rather smothered but experiencing a civic upbringing at school made me fight my mother to be raised as a civic. I fought to experience the bit of freedom they enjoyed. Pretty much i fought to be more of a civic. Add to it how the earthquakes influenced me. My reaction was to join the sva and build teams to help those who needed the help through answering calls for help on our fb page. It has cemented what teamwork can do with my generation and we still continue to work that way in the work force now. Creating companies that way. But do keep in mind my mother is in severe financial strife...also she raised me on her own. We have always been severely poor. But my mother sheltered me and never let me know how bad things were. Now I am an adult i understand and have decided that we also are a team and i will help her too. As they say no one gets left behind. I had the same mentality as other millies in the group who did not leave anyone behind in desperate times. Especially the sickly and elderly. I have always been poor but it helps me to sympathize with others and to give all i have. Even when i just had a drip coming out of the tap i gave it to others who had none. One poor elderly lady i will never forget. She was in tears and said now she can have a cup of tea. She had no water and was crippled and alone. Broke my heart. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. It was so empowering and important for what we all did and it is wonderful to be part of a community pull-together. We must look after each other for you never know what someone else is going through.

This is interesting because as a kid I had LOTS of exposure to Xers when I was growing up. My sister is a 1976 cohort, my stepdad was a 1961 cohort. My "direct" cousins (the kids of my aunts and uncles) are all Xers, though their kids are all Millennials with some of them close to me in age (in my extended family I'm the oldest Millennial).
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
Reply
#10
(07-25-2016, 06:54 AM)Odin Wrote:
(07-25-2016, 05:37 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-24-2016, 08:41 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: @Tara,

First let me say that you are very much a civic.  In fact one of the most civic people I know and I have adult memories of GIs.  That being said there is a great deal of overlap with the generations and not just due to turning.  I've postulated in the past that social class and siblings (and to a lesser extent cousins) play a part in the manifestation of ones Nomadness, Civicness, Artistness, and Prophetness.  

For example my sister and you share the same birth year yet she is no where near as civic as you are having a clear lean toward civic but having more than a little nomad flavor.  That flavor I would argue is the response of being in a household not only having a late wave Xer older brother but also having contact with core and early Xer cousins.

Add to that social class and it has been my experience that those coming from the working class and working poor seem to have an exaggerated level of Adaptives and Nomads whereas in the more well off classes the opposite is true (Civics and Prophets being exaggerated).

That being said, it is my opinion that the S&H dates are perhaps the best, excluding my  own of course (but that is mostly because I have problems with the Civil War Saeculum rather than the current saeculum).

Ah that would explain a lot. My grandparents are silents. My mother is a boomer like my uncles. I had zero contact with xers in my personal life. I only looked up to them culturally. But did not get to know these people. My mother also would shake her head at xers antics and tell me to never be like that. The way i was raised as well (being rather smothered but experiencing a civic upbringing at school made me fight my mother to be raised as a civic. I fought to experience the bit of freedom they enjoyed. Pretty much i fought to be more of a civic. Add to it how the earthquakes influenced me. My reaction was to join the sva and build teams to help those who needed the help through answering calls for help on our fb page. It has cemented what teamwork can do with my generation and we still continue to work that way in the work force now. Creating companies that way. But do keep in mind my mother is in severe financial strife...also she raised me on her own. We have always been severely poor. But my mother sheltered me and never let me know how bad things were. Now I am an adult i understand and have decided that we also are a team and i will help her too. As they say no one gets left behind. I had the same mentality as other millies in the group who did not leave anyone behind in desperate times. Especially the sickly and elderly. I have always been poor but it helps me to sympathize with others and to give all i have. Even when i just had a drip coming out of the tap i gave it to others who had none. One poor elderly lady i will never forget. She was in tears and said now she can have a cup of tea. She had no water and was crippled and alone. Broke my heart. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. It was so empowering and important for what we all did and it is wonderful to be part of a community pull-together. We must look after each other for you never know what someone else is going through.

This is interesting because as a kid I had LOTS of exposure to Xers when I was growing up. My sister is a 1976 cohort, my stepdad was a 1961 cohort. My "direct" cousins (the kids of my aunts and uncles) are all Xers, though their kids are all Millennials with some of them close to me in age (in my extended family I'm the oldest Millennial).

My family is split up. My father (boom) took off and i did not discover my family on that side till my late 20s. My grandpa liked to travel when he was younger and so the family here is small. Just my 2 uncles, my aunt, my grandparents (one deceased), my 2 cousins (younger millies) and my mother and me. Yes of course my fathers side is here but i did not grow up with them nor am close to them due to that reason we did not grow up together. Have not met any xers on that side either. The rest of my family is in Australia and England. Never met them. If there are xers in the family they would be over there. Only xers i encountered were brief encounters like relieving teachers or older students when i was a wee one. When i went to high school there were a few more but i never really knew them well. I never grew up with xers.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#11
(07-24-2016, 08:41 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: @Tara,

First let me say that you are very much a civic.  In fact one of the most civic people I know and I have adult memories of GIs.  That being said there is a great deal of overlap with the generations and not just due to turning.  I've postulated in the past that social class and siblings (and to a lesser extent cousins) play a part in the manifestation of ones Nomadness, Civicness, Artistness, and Prophetness.  

For example my sister and you share the same birth year yet she is no where near as civic as you are having a clear lean toward civic but having more than a little nomad flavor.  That flavor I would argue is the response of being in a household not only having a late wave Xer older brother but also having contact with core and early Xer cousins.

Add to that social class and it has been my experience that those coming from the working class and working poor seem to have an exaggerated level of Adaptives and Nomads whereas in the more well off classes the opposite is true (Civics and Prophets being exaggerated).

That being said, it is my opinion that the S&H dates are perhaps the best, excluding my  own of course (but that is mostly because I have problems with the Civil War Saeculum rather than the current saeculum).

I do agree with you that people of the same cohort will lean more one way or the other due to how they were raised and what they experienced. Although being poor did not actually make me more of a nomad or adaptive and that is I believe due to the fact i was so sheltered.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#12
(07-25-2016, 11:20 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-24-2016, 08:41 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: @Tara,

First let me say that you are very much a civic.  In fact one of the most civic people I know and I have adult memories of GIs.  That being said there is a great deal of overlap with the generations and not just due to turning.  I've postulated in the past that social class and siblings (and to a lesser extent cousins) play a part in the manifestation of ones Nomadness, Civicness, Artistness, and Prophetness.  

For example my sister and you share the same birth year yet she is no where near as civic as you are having a clear lean toward civic but having more than a little nomad flavor.  That flavor I would argue is the response of being in a household not only having a late wave Xer older brother but also having contact with core and early Xer cousins.

Add to that social class and it has been my experience that those coming from the working class and working poor seem to have an exaggerated level of Adaptives and Nomads whereas in the more well off classes the opposite is true (Civics and Prophets being exaggerated).

That being said, it is my opinion that the S&H dates are perhaps the best, excluding my  own of course (but that is mostly because I have problems with the Civil War Saeculum rather than the current saeculum).

I do agree with you that people of the same cohort will lean more one way or the other due to how they were raised and what they experienced. Although being poor did not actually make me more of a nomad or adaptive and that is I believe due to the fact i was so sheltered.

Well there are to put it simply  four sources of "flavor" (for lack of a better word) in how one comes out.  There is a fifth one as well which would apply to non-yanks of course, I am speaking naturally from an American perspective only and have little experience with Australians, or Kiwis in particular and little experience with Canadians (though I can speak about the Brits quite a bit more as I'm an anglophile and have been to the UK regularly since I was in my late teens).

Theses flavor sources are, as I view it, as follows:

1.  Family dynamics.  The generation of parents and grandparents coupled with the generation of siblings and other relatives--particularly if the family is less split up.  In my case my maternal grandparents (GIs) headed a large household containing not only my mother and my sister and myself in the same abode but also unmarried boomer uncles, my Silent generation oldest maternal uncle and his wife and children lived next door.  Their kids were obviously the early and core Xers.

Someone who was not raised with that multitude of family influences would obviously come out differently, that said I do think that the presence of older sibilings has a tendency to make cuspers lean more heavily to the preceding generation and the X/Y cusp is usually stated to be between 1980-1984 in the US.

2.  Family rearing style.  In general in my family I and my sister were raised with a benign neglect.  Granted we had what we needed but we certainly could not rely on any adult for consistent direction and as such we went our own ways and developed our own habits.  In large part I distinguished myself in the family by not doing the stupid shit my cousins did--though I did do different stupid shit.

3.  Institutional mode of child rearing at the time of childhood.  This should be self-evident but in case it is not--the mood of and about child rearing that was common in schools, pre-schools and so forth at the time one was a child.  In my case I caught the last end of full Xer mode and my age group were often the "gueneia pigs" as we called ourselves.

4.  Historical events as they happen and at what age they happen.  Obviously VJ day has a different meaning to a 50 year old, and to a 25 year old, and to a 5 year old and a 1 year old would obviously have no clear memory of it.

Suffice it to say 9/11 means something different to Boomers than it does for Xers and lastly Millies.  Homelanders won't remember it at all.

This by no means mean I endorse the 2001 4T start date hypothesis.  I remain convinced that it started some time around 2005.  The Katrina Theory my BF calls it.

Lastly there is nationality.  I can't speak for AUS or NZ but the US and Canada both seem to be about 5-7 years ahead of the UK.  I think a great deal of that has to do with the feeling that their last 4T didn't end until after rationing ended.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
#13
(07-26-2016, 04:17 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(07-25-2016, 11:20 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-24-2016, 08:41 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: @Tara,

First let me say that you are very much a civic.  In fact one of the most civic people I know and I have adult memories of GIs.  That being said there is a great deal of overlap with the generations and not just due to turning.  I've postulated in the past that social class and siblings (and to a lesser extent cousins) play a part in the manifestation of ones Nomadness, Civicness, Artistness, and Prophetness.  

For example my sister and you share the same birth year yet she is no where near as civic as you are having a clear lean toward civic but having more than a little nomad flavor.  That flavor I would argue is the response of being in a household not only having a late wave Xer older brother but also having contact with core and early Xer cousins.

Add to that social class and it has been my experience that those coming from the working class and working poor seem to have an exaggerated level of Adaptives and Nomads whereas in the more well off classes the opposite is true (Civics and Prophets being exaggerated).

That being said, it is my opinion that the S&H dates are perhaps the best, excluding my  own of course (but that is mostly because I have problems with the Civil War Saeculum rather than the current saeculum).

I do agree with you that people of the same cohort will lean more one way or the other due to how they were raised and what they experienced. Although being poor did not actually make me more of a nomad or adaptive and that is I believe due to the fact i was so sheltered.

Well there are to put it simply  four sources of "flavor" (for lack of a better word) in how one comes out.  There is a fifth one as well which would apply to non-yanks of course, I am speaking naturally from an American perspective only and have little experience with Australians, or Kiwis in particular and little experience with Canadians (though I can speak about the Brits quite a bit more as I'm an anglophile and have been to the UK regularly since I was in my late teens).

Theses flavor sources are, as I view it, as follows:

1.  Family dynamics.  The generation of parents and grandparents coupled with the generation of siblings and other relatives--particularly if the family is less split up.  In my case my maternal grandparents (GIs) headed a large household containing not only my mother and my sister and myself in the same abode but also unmarried boomer uncles, my Silent generation oldest maternal uncle and his wife and children lived next door.  Their kids were obviously the early and core Xers.

Someone who was not raised with that multitude of family influences would obviously come out differently, that said I do think that the presence of older sibilings has a tendency to make cuspers lean more heavily to the preceding generation and the X/Y cusp is usually stated to be between 1980-1984 in the US.

2.  Family rearing style.  In general in my family I and my sister were raised with a benign neglect.  Granted we had what we needed but we certainly could not rely on any adult for consistent direction and as such we went our own ways and developed our own habits.  In large part I distinguished myself in the family by not doing the stupid shit my cousins did--though I did do different stupid shit.

3.  Institutional mode of child rearing at the time of childhood.  This should be self-evident but in case it is not--the mood of and about child rearing that was common in schools, pre-schools and so forth at the time one was a child.  In my case I caught the last end of full Xer mode and my age group were often the "gueneia pigs" as we called ourselves.

4.  Historical events as they happen and at what age they happen.  Obviously VJ day has a different meaning to a 50 year old, and to a 25 year old, and to a 5 year old and a 1 year old would obviously have no clear memory of it.

Suffice it to say 9/11 means something different to Boomers than it does for Xers and lastly Millies.  Homelanders won't remember it at all.

This by no means mean I endorse the 2001 4T start date hypothesis.  I remain convinced that it started some time around 2005.  The Katrina Theory my BF calls it.

Lastly there is nationality.  I can't speak for AUS or NZ but the US and Canada both seem to be about 5-7 years ahead of the UK.  I think a great deal of that has to do with the feeling that their last 4T didn't end until after rationing ended.
Very good analysis. I agree. I have heard that Auz is behind in the turnings by a few years. Cannot tell you why as this is only from heresay from someone from the old forum who lived there for a few years apparently. He said the millies were raised in a free range sort of way. Totally the opposite of what went on here. I can only speak from what i experienced here with what went on with my cohort. Also give out the dates they place millies at. Mostly we are just labeled gen y (a name i am none to pleased with) and the years are 1980 or 1982 to either 1994(7 or 9). No one seems to have a specific date and no one seems to follow with the strauss and howe theory here. But they have noted very similar attitudes as well as how we were raised compared to our American counterparts. I do not agree with 1994 as an end date here for millennials. Nothing changed when it came to how wee ones were being raised at that time. That came along around 10 years later with higher walls being built, walls on trampolines, the anti smacking bill so not only teachers could not smack but it is illegal for anyone to hit a child and just the general attitude regarding the welfare of kids. I thought i was smothered, but i was smacked when i did something wrong. These kids are treated as if they are delicate little flower petals as well as the smothering. Disgusting to see as i know what damage smothering can do. Anyway someone noted that US and NZ may be on a similar time frame given that we could recover much more quickly from ww2 given that it was not fought on our land. It was though in the UK for example so they were hit harder by the war. My grandpa has many stories of the war (he is a brit). So that may be one reason why they are lagging behind a bit in the cycles.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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