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What will happen to people who rebel during the 1T
#1
Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.
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#2
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

Where the heck do you live to believe that is happening? I talk to American millennials daily and I get the opposite impression.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#3
(10-28-2016, 05:09 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 04:32 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

Where the heck do you live to believe that is happening? I talk to American millennials daily and I get the opposite impression.

LOL @ "Assimilated by the Borg." BTW - those dudes in the first pic - that pic was taken at Fairchild ... not long before the pictured group split off to start Intel. Lot's of "conformity" - LOL.

Now, that pic looks to be around '60. Just a few short years after that, you'd smell weed around the various Silicon Valley places. This is not unlike "Mad Men" - in that, some of those GIs and many of the Silents a bit younger than them ... were not adverse to some experimentation. They'd have conferences at the St. Francis Hotel in downtown SF ... no doubt there were side "trips" to the Haight. Some people try to paint the 2T as some sort of drastic contrast to the 1T. But there were many, many shades of grey between the two.
Conformity happens in business in all turnings. If you do not fit you are out. I have had that with boomer bosses. Never with fellow millie "bosses."
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#4
(10-28-2016, 05:09 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 04:32 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

Where the heck do you live to believe that is happening? I talk to American millennials daily and I get the opposite impression.

LOL @ "Assimilated by the Borg." BTW - those dudes in the first pic - that pic was taken at Fairchild ... not long before the pictured group split off to start Intel. Lot's of "conformity" - LOL.

Now, that pic looks to be around '60....

So basically the picture is first turning, and the split to Intel is second turning.  That basically backs up disasterzone's conjecture.
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#5
(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:

[Image: silicon_gallery_2.jpg]

I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.
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#6
(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:

[Image: silicon_gallery_2.jpg]

I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.
Why do you feel deprived and going through this time period for no reason? As for conforming it is just a matter of finding your group that you share something in common with.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#7
(10-29-2016, 07:53 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:

[Image: silicon_gallery_2.jpg]

I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.
Why do you feel deprived and going through this time period for no reason? As for conforming it is just a matter of finding your group that you share something in common with.

Because the expectations are ridiculous and there's tons of hoops made to jump through. I feel deprived because I was born in the wrong time and I have to feel the shaft and backlash of all these emerging trends. It feels pointless because the 1T won't be what I want. If I sacrifice for it, it means I will have sacrificed so some arbitrary generation ahead of me gets what they want but I don't. It just seems like a point of life I was just thrust into and I have to be taken along for this whole ride. So I'm gonna spend the 1T doing whatever I want to make up for the lost time. Otherwise this whole time period will have been completely pointless to me and my deprivation will last until the time I get old.
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#8
(10-30-2016, 12:17 AM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 07:53 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:

[Image: silicon_gallery_2.jpg]

I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.
Why do you feel deprived and going through this time period for no reason? As for conforming it is just a matter of finding your group that you share something in common with.

Because the expectations are ridiculous and there's tons of hoops made to jump through. I feel deprived because I was born in the wrong time and I have to feel the shaft and backlash of all these emerging trends. It feels pointless because the 1T won't be what I want. If I sacrifice for it, it means I will have sacrificed so some arbitrary generation ahead of me gets what they want but I don't. It just seems like a point of life I was just thrust into and I have to be taken along for this whole ride. So I'm gonna spend the 1T doing whatever I want to make up for the lost time. Otherwise this whole time period will have been completely pointless to me and my deprivation will last until the time I get old.

The hoops are for experience. What trends are you talking about? If you could design the 1T what would be your dream? What do you feel deprived of?
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#9
No offense, Disasterzone, but you sound like an angsty teenager with a martyr complex who thinks he's the only human who isn't a "sheep" and are seeking validation for his feelings. These are things you should be talking to a psychotherapist about, not random internet strangers.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#10
(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:

[Image: silicon_gallery_2.jpg]

I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.

We all feel deprived of something. Few people get anything near what they want.

The usual 4T is a time of great hardship and potential loss. The big project of the time may be the survival of what matters most. Think of World War II. People quite doing Sunday drives when gasoline was rationed. People were told to not go to the store to get clothes to replace worn-out or damaged clothes, but instead to mend them. There could be food rationing. Abo9ve all, some people might need to die for the Fatherland to  defend it from invasion and subjection.

We see now some ugly politics characteristic of the beginning of a Crisis Era, one in which old compromises fail, and people get their stilettos out on things from abortion to 'gun rights'.

Here is a sample of what we deal with:

Quote:Robert Reich
October 28 at 5:22pm ·
Yesterday I spoke with a former Republican member of Congress whom I’ve known for years.
Me: What do you think of your party’s nominee for president?
He: Trump is a maniac. He’s a clear and present danger to America.
Me: Have you said publicly that you won’t vote for him?
He (sheepishly): No.
Me: Why not?
He: I’m a coward.
Me: What do you mean?
He: I live in a state with a lot of Trump voters. Most Republican officials do.
Me: But you’re a former official. You're not running for Congress again. What are you afraid of?
He: I hate to admit it, but I’m afraid of them. Some of those Trumpistas are out of their fu*king minds.
Me: You mean you’re afraid for your own physical safety?
He: All it takes is one of them, you know.
Me: Wait a minute. Isn’t this how dictators and fascists have come to power in other nations? Respected leaders don’t dare take a stand.
He: At least I’m no Giuliani or Gingrich or Pence. I’m not a Trump enabler.
Me: I’ll give you that.
He: Let me tell you something. Most current and former Republican members of Congress are exactly like me. I talk with them. They think Trump is deplorable. And they think Giuliani and Gingrich are almost as bad. But they’re not gonna speak out. Some don’t want to end their political careers. Most don’t want to risk their lives. The Trump crowd is just too dangerous. Trump has whipped them up into a g*ddamn frenzy.


The Corporate Right sponsored the Tea Party opposition to Barack Obama and used it to consolidate a partisan advantage that could deny practically any role for liberalism except in urban machine politics for the next few decades. It has also created an anger-driven Frankenstein monster that now scares its creators.

What Friedrich Hayek said of socialists --  the worst fate that can befall a socialist is that the wrong group of socialists takes power -- might apply to factions of the American Right. The stilettos are already out, and the safest situation for a conservative who still believes in the rule of law may be that the last politicians who still believe in it who can win the 2016 election -- liberals who now are the bulk of the Democratic Party -- win big.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#11
(10-30-2016, 12:17 AM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 07:53 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(07-19-2016, 10:45 AM)disasterzone Wrote: Like the people who don't follow the same social norms? Will they be persecuted and driven to the edges of society? It seems to be what's happening now. There seems to be this crazy emphasis on the borg mentality where everyone is supposed to be the same and nobody is supposed to have different needs or wants. However there also seems to be this hyper individualist mentality at the same time where people helping each other is frowned on. It's hell.

I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:

[Image: silicon_gallery_2.jpg]

I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.
Why do you feel deprived and going through this time period for no reason? As for conforming it is just a matter of finding your group that you share something in common with.

Because the expectations are ridiculous and there's tons of hoops made to jump through. I feel deprived because I was born in the wrong time and I have to feel the shaft and backlash of all these emerging trends. It feels pointless because the 1T won't be what I want. If I sacrifice for it, it means I will have sacrificed so some arbitrary generation ahead of me gets what they want but I don't. It just seems like a point of life I was just thrust into and I have to be taken along for this whole ride. So I'm gonna spend the 1T doing whatever I want to make up for the lost time. Otherwise this whole time period will have been completely pointless to me and my deprivation will last until the time I get old.

What year were you born?  If you're Gen X, that's what the generational cycle deals out to Reactives.
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#12
(10-30-2016, 09:26 AM)Odin Wrote: No offense, Disasterzone, but you sound like an angsty teenager with a martyr complex who thinks he's the only human who isn't a "sheep" and are seeking validation for his feelings. These are things you should be talking to a psychotherapist about, not random internet strangers.

He or she reminds me of decadeologist with all of these unusual questions and feeling outside of what he or she thinks millies are like. Seems to likewise be miserable about his or her own generation and feeling we are all clones in what he or she imagines us to be. Which is very much an incorrect way to go about it.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#13
(10-31-2016, 06:36 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 12:17 AM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 07:53 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:38 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-28-2016, 03:12 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: I think people tend to exaggerate the degree of conformity during a 1T. It's not that there is a monoculture, during a 1T, there is just a certain organic alignment. People are drained from The Crisis and just want to chill. For those who want to do something new and different during a 1T, there are outlets, in fact, dramatic outlets. Progress and the improving human condition take immense strides during a 1T:

[Image: silicon_gallery_2.jpg]

I can't wait for the New Civics / Millennials to be completely in charge. I hope I live to see that day.

What I feel during this time is deprived and like I'm going through this time period for no reason. The 4T makes me want to have more during the 1T and makes me want as much as I can have. Is this common? It also makes me wanna conform less because there's no real "reward" to conforming these days other than the approval of people who want shallow relationships.
Why do you feel deprived and going through this time period for no reason? As for conforming it is just a matter of finding your group that you share something in common with.

Because the expectations are ridiculous and there's tons of hoops made to jump through. I feel deprived because I was born in the wrong time and I have to feel the shaft and backlash of all these emerging trends. It feels pointless because the 1T won't be what I want. If I sacrifice for it, it means I will have sacrificed so some arbitrary generation ahead of me gets what they want but I don't. It just seems like a point of life I was just thrust into and I have to be taken along for this whole ride. So I'm gonna spend the 1T doing whatever I want to make up for the lost time. Otherwise this whole time period will have been completely pointless to me and my deprivation will last until the time I get old.

What year were you born?  If you're Gen X, that's what the generational cycle deals out to Reactives.

No this person has said he or she is a millennial and he or she reminds me of decadeologist101 from the other forum. I wonder if it is the same person under a different name. The similarity is uncanny. Feels like he or she is more boom/xer than millie, check. Feels like an outsider, check. Interprets millies to be something they are not, check. Has a bit of a chip on the shoulder for millies, check. Asks unusual questions, check. And finally talks about being sneaky and doing dangerous and possibly illegal things.....check.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#14
(10-31-2016, 06:36 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: What year were you born?  If you're Gen X, that's what the generational cycle deals out to Reactives.

Huh? 

I guess it depends on geography or something.
1962-1968  1T
1969-1984  2T
1985-2007 3T
2008-?  4T.

The only sucky turning is the 4T.  The US has gotten to be really loopy and stupid as of 2008. All of those prior turning have been great and I have no complaints whatsoever.
---Value Added Cool
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#15
(10-31-2016, 06:16 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
(10-31-2016, 06:36 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: What year were you born?  If you're Gen X, that's what the generational cycle deals out to Reactives.

Huh? 

I guess it depends on geography or something.
1962-1968  1T
1969-1984  2T
1985-2007 3T
2008-?  4T.

The only sucky turning is the 4T.  The US has gotten to be really loopy and stupid as of 2008. All of those prior turning have been great and I have no complaints whatsoever.

Fourth turnings are terrible for most people.

However, for a serious nonconformist, only the second turning is really comfortable.  Reactives don't get to experience a second turning as an adult, which sounds like the worst possible alignment for disasterzone.

It's since become clear that disasterzone is a millenial, though, so there may be some comfort in old age.  I'm sure he or she would have preferred to be a boomer, but presumably only one quarter of the population gets their preferred generational type.
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#16
I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#17
(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up. The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve. Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint." I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#18
(11-01-2016, 05:16 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up.


We most certainly did. We lack the reform movements of the Missionaries and the culture of the Transcendental generation. We were good only in polarizing the discourse. Economic elitists of the Boom generation will need to be shoved aside if there is to be any structural reform of American political life and ways of doing business.

Quote:The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve.


So long as the Boomers are divided into hostile, exclusive camps we will hev no resolution other than brute force.

Quote:Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint."


People will see the Hippie stuff, the Boomer rock music, and the psychedelic art without knowing the context and see it as quaint, much as I saw fin de siecle  (19th to 20th century)  expressions of art and music 'quaint'. Wow, people used to do that?

Quote: I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.

If they press the 'destruct' button, then Boomers will destroy much more than their own creation.

The dominant Boomers are now much like the White side of the Russian Civil War.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#19
(11-01-2016, 05:16 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up. The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve. Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint." I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.

You seem to have a very rose colored view of the Missionary generation.  In some ways they were more extreme than Boomers; for example their war on drugs went much further than the Boomer one. And WWII killed a lot of people.
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#20
(11-01-2016, 07:25 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 05:16 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 04:36 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'm a Boomer, and most of my time in the Boom Awakening was in a staid family in the rural Midwest, where one never got a chance to partake in much of the 2T.  I saw only a little loosening by may authoritarian, traditional farm-raised parents... and I got little chance to participate in the Boom Awakening.

I am not ready for another Awakening era. I can warn X and Millennial generations: you might begin to think the Boom Awakening quaint, much as I remember media suggesting that the Gay 90's (yes -- it really was called that, and that had nothing to do with homosexuality) were quaint. People had forgotten the booze and opiates. (As I said to one of the best-liked posters on the old Howe and Strauss forum, the poppy field in which Dorothy falls asleep from the narcotic effect of the poppies in The Wizard of Oz gives some indication of how booze-sodden and doped up America was in the Missionary Awakening, even if only through the patent medicines full of 'liquor and laudanum'  that could be sold with impunity before the Food and Drug Act of 1906).

Lost kids were often pushed into factory work if they were of the urban poor or pressed into farm work if in non-rich farm families. Lost kids from the economic elites couldn't understand what the hyped fun of young adults extending childhood was all about and found nothing.

Ah I do not think so if we are to take the apollonian/dionysian saeculum theory seriously. You guys messed things up culturally with no solution to fix what was messed up. The next prophets in America will be what we have over in my country currently; apollonian prophets. So, similar to your missionaries. They will be more organized. When I look at our boomers who are apollonians and look at what they are doing and compare them to the cultural mess that is the American boomers I have to say you guys are anything but quaint. I am appalled at the mess and appalled that these discussions still have to be said in this day and age and of all places, America. Worse still that there has been no solution, no resolve. Such is the fate of a dionysian group that can only create mess but cannot fix it. But that is the role for generations who crave law and order like myself. I do not see you American boomers as anything even comparable to "quaint." I see the opposite of that in fact. Two sides screaming at each other and pushing the destruct button on both sides pulling a nation apart even further for self serving gain. This is not the way to bring a country together. This is certainly not the way towards building a strong nation. I see dionysians as mess makers. Not worthy of the word "quaint." I could use that word though for our boomers who are more collective and love law making to fit round their ideals.

You seem to have a very rose colored view of the Missionary generation.  In some ways they were more extreme than Boomers; for example their war on drugs went much further than the Boomer one.  And WWII killed a lot of people.

I never said they were not more extreme. They were about law and order and they are much more organized than the horseshit division the boomers in America created in the culture with no resolution. WW2 was justified if you have paid attention to what went on during that time. I admire the missionaries much more than American boomers for these reasons. They actually had their shit together in comparison and ww2 was justified to fight against fascism.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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