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#21
(07-29-2016, 03:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: Now we have heard from an actual xers experience this should give Eric reason to consider taking back the "jealous" accusation and listen to this experience. We already know how he interprets that era. But if he thinks younger folk will want to follow what ideas they were discussing he needs to consider how some interpret that era and realize that will never happen. However my generation did not experience the 2T at all and have only heard of it 2nd hand. I would love to know why he thinks younger folk are going to morph society to conclude what was being preached during the 2T. There were so many voices by the sounds of things after all.

When you were growing up they spent all of their time trying to cover up their misspent youth.  By 1982 you couldn't find very many that would admit to anything, it was always somebody else.  Keep in mind they all got religion then.  Christianity or Secular Humanism.  They are both fundamentalists but just have a different god in the case of the humanists it is the state.

Don't think the Xers didn't notice that little bit of hypocrisy added to the already existing pile.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken

If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.   -- Ludwig von Mises
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#22
(07-29-2016, 03:33 AM)Galen Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:25 AM)taramarie Wrote: Now we have heard from an actual xers experience this should give Eric reason to consider taking back the "jealous" accusation and listen to this experience. We already know how he interprets that era. But if he thinks younger folk will want to follow what ideas they were discussing he needs to consider how some interpret that era and realize that will never happen. However my generation did not experience the 2T at all and have only heard of it 2nd hand. I would love to know why he thinks younger folk are going to morph society to conclude what was being preached during the 2T. There were so many voices by the sounds of things after all.

When you were growing up they spent all of their time trying to cover up their misspent youth.  By 1982 you couldn't find very many that would admit to anything, it was always somebody else.  Keep in mind they all got religion then.  Christianity or Secular Humanism.  They are both fundamentalists but just have a different god in the case of the humanists it is the state.

Don't think the Xers didn't notice that little bit of hypocrisy added to the already existing pile.
Hmm interesting. Yeah I never saw any of it. It was quite something to see what some boomers were like in their youth. It was totally shocking. As xers saw the hypocrisy it does make me wonder why they think their ideas will conclude at the end of the 4T. I tell many boomers who are blindly idealistic it will never happen. But it never gets through to them. Such ignorance and delusion. It takes the majority of a society to make an ideal reality. A stable ideal that does not destroy the economy/planet is ideal as they are both connected to our very survival.....but many of the ideals i hear from older boomers (seems to always be those '40s boomers) do not sound realistic, nor sustainable. Such a waste of time trying. Heck i wonder if GIs had similar conversations with the lost about the missionaries lol. Perhaps not. I have heard the missionaries were much more stable prophets to a certain degree. Much more organized.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#23
(07-29-2016, 03:45 AM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm interesting. Yeah I never saw any of it. It was quite something to see what some boomers were like in their youth. It was totally shocking. As xers saw the hypocrisy it does make me wonder why they think their ideas will conclude at the end of the 4T. I tell many boomers who are blindly idealistic it will never happen. But it never gets through to them. Such ignorance and delusion. It takes the majority of a society to make an ideal reality. A stable ideal that does not destroy the economy/planet is ideal as they are both connected to our very survival.....but many of the ideals i hear from older boomers (seems to always be those '40s boomers) do not sound realistic, nor sustainable. Such a waste of time trying. Heck i wonder if GIs had similar conversations with the lost about the missionaries lol. Perhaps not. I have heard the missionaries were much more stable prophets to a certain degree. Much more organized.

There is crucial difference between the last second turning and all of the previous second turnings in the US.  In the earlier examples there was a religious revival.  In many ways it was an effort to reclaim American culture.  While it did lead to some craziness such as Prohibition it never went as far off the rails.  The Boomers on the other hand were making a very conscious effort to reject western culture.  The Reverend Jones was an exception in that he embraced what I would consider a distortion of Christianity.  This is the crucial difference you need to understand to get a handle on why things got so crazy.  They tended to throw out western concepts of rationality and the need for evidence and logic.

There were a fair scattering of fifties Boomers that went that way as well.  I had Boomers step-brothers and step-sisters at a couple of point growing up.  One step-sister went down that road and the consequences were fatal and she was seventeen.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken

If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.   -- Ludwig von Mises
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#24
(07-29-2016, 04:03 AM)Galen Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:45 AM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm interesting. Yeah I never saw any of it. It was quite something to see what some boomers were like in their youth. It was totally shocking. As xers saw the hypocrisy it does make me wonder why they think their ideas will conclude at the end of the 4T. I tell many boomers who are blindly idealistic it will never happen. But it never gets through to them. Such ignorance and delusion. It takes the majority of a society to make an ideal reality. A stable ideal that does not destroy the economy/planet is ideal as they are both connected to our very survival.....but many of the ideals i hear from older boomers (seems to always be those '40s boomers) do not sound realistic, nor sustainable. Such a waste of time trying. Heck i wonder if GIs had similar conversations with the lost about the missionaries lol. Perhaps not. I have heard the missionaries were much more stable prophets to a certain degree. Much more organized.

There is crucial difference between the last second turning and all of the previous second turnings in the US.  In the earlier examples there was a religious revival.  In many ways it was an effort to reclaim American culture.  While it did lead to some craziness such as Prohibition it never went as far off the rails.  The Boomers on the other hand were making a very conscious effort to reject western culture.  The Reverend Jones was an exception in that he embraced what I would consider a distortion of Christianity.  This is the crucial difference you need to understand to get a handle on why things got so crazy.  They tended to throw out western concepts of rationality and the need for evidence and logic.

There were a fair scattering of fifties Boomers that went that way as well.  I had Boomers step-brothers and step-sisters at a couple of point growing up.  One step-sister went down that road and the consequences were fatal and she was seventeen.
I wonder why they wanted to reject western culture? Devoid of the kind of eastern spiritual exploration that they desired? Throwing out evidence and western concepts of logic and rationality....if that is anything like Eric regarding mechanistic ideas or what is his favourite word for describing that way of thinking.....shit i have had too much beer to remember it right now. Hahahaha!
Anyway i would rather have a good grasp of reality rather than what nonsense they were eating up and dying for back then. Good to be a civic and get a good dose of reality at a young age. Although we will most likely make our own mistakes in the future. No doubt. We are after all imperfect.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#25
(07-29-2016, 04:21 AM)taramarie Wrote: I wonder why they wanted to reject western culture? Devoid of the kind of eastern spiritual exploration that they desired? Throwing out evidence and western concepts of logic and rationality....if that is anything like Eric regarding mechanistic ideas or what is his favourite word for describing that way of thinking.....shit i have had too much beer to remember it right now. Hahahaha!
Anyway i would rather have a good grasp of reality rather than what nonsense they were eating up and dying for back then. Good to be a civic and get a good dose of reality at a young age. Although we will most likely make our own mistakes in the future. No doubt. We are after all imperfect.

I don't fully understand the reason for the hatred of western culture, which usually comes from the left, but I do not deny its reality.  It does however explain their adopting rather oversimplified versions of Eastern mysticism.  The closest current equivalent is the SJWs who consider logic to be racist.  Don't ask me to explain that one because I don't really understand it myself.

Glad to see that you are enjoying your evening. Big Grin
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken

If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.   -- Ludwig von Mises
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#26
(07-29-2016, 04:27 AM)Galen Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 04:21 AM)taramarie Wrote: I wonder why they wanted to reject western culture? Devoid of the kind of eastern spiritual exploration that they desired? Throwing out evidence and western concepts of logic and rationality....if that is anything like Eric regarding mechanistic ideas or what is his favourite word for describing that way of thinking.....shit i have had too much beer to remember it right now. Hahahaha!
Anyway i would rather have a good grasp of reality rather than what nonsense they were eating up and dying for back then. Good to be a civic and get a good dose of reality at a young age. Although we will most likely make our own mistakes in the future. No doubt. We are after all imperfect.

I don't fully understand the reason for the hatred of western culture, which usually comes from the left, but I do not deny its reality.  It does however explain their adopting rather oversimplified versions of Eastern mysticism.  The closest current equivalent is the SJWs who consider logic to be racist.  Don't ask me to explain that one because I don't really understand it myself.

Glad to see that you are enjoying your evening. Big Grin

Well I would not know about that one given i am a foreigner (regarding hatred of western culture leaning more to the left). That i do not see in my own country, that i know. I have encountered being called a racist or racist enabler by a lefty just for simply trying to get a picture from both sides as i do not think you can get the whole picture by just listening to one side. So labels intended to shut down conversation and prejudice certainly comes from some on the left. Convert and be assimilated or you will be crushed seems to be the way on both sides atm. Which is why i have said it is rather tribal over there. Too much shouting. Too much fighting and too much of my way or the highway. Not enough listening. I am sincerely worried about your country and its future.


Yes indeedy I am! Wonderful friday night with several tasty beers and a couple of furbabies as well as an interesting conversation! Big Grin
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#27
Anyway the beer is taking effect so i will stagger my way out before i make an ass of myself online! This interesting conversation will continue tomorrow after i sleep this off. Very interesting conversation!
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#28
(07-29-2016, 02:14 AM)Galen Wrote: I seem to remember quite a few copies of Das Kapital being passed around all those years ago. Come to think of it they spent a lot of time telling me how great the Soviet Union was but curiously they had never been there. History shows that they were full of shit about both Marx and the Soviet Union.

I have seen a lot of drugged out people in my time both Boomer and Xer. I can say with complete certainty that all it did was make them stupid.
I knew a lot more boomers than you did, because I was their age and I was close to where the most hippies and radicals of the sixties were. I can say with complete certainty that psychedelics opened up countless people, including GIs and Silents as well as Boomers, and even Xers too, to greater life and awareness, and it made them a whole lot smarter. I knew a few others who went crazy on psychedelics and had a hard time recovering. But I don't remember anyone who was made stupid at all. And I met only a few who were into Marxism (and one of them was a Silent). I know that some radicals were, but the main movements of the time were not Marxist but peace and ecology movements, and they were otherwise progressive and to a large degree anarchist. Later of course I got involved with the Greens. They are not Marxists either, for the most part. I never saw a single copy of Das Kapital.

Quote:I read many books actually but happily I read very fast so I have had plenty of time to experience reality. That is also why I don't like to mess with the brain chemistry since I have had to deal with some very nasty bits of reality like so many other Xers. Many of those bits took place while you were busy getting stoned and creating the wreckage the Xers and Millies get to deal with.

Many of you Xers give us nothing but excuses for your lack of awareness and your cynical attitudes. I don't buy it. Your generation suffered from broken families, but many of us core boomers had oppressive and lonely ones; not much better. You had more freedom from parental oppression, and you had economic opportunity because of your lower population compared to Boomers and Jonesers. The only wreckage was created by your ridiculous and callous economic philosophy, which has shut down opportunity for many young people in these last 36 years and counting, and shifted all economic advancement to the top 1% of the people. If you were really concerned about people having to deal with wreckage, you would see that, but you are completely blind to the problem, and absorbed instead with your ridiculous economic philosophy which you uphold because of your cynical attitudes.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#29
(07-29-2016, 02:21 AM)taramarie Wrote: If anyone has a shred of insight and sensitivity one would know that Galen and other xers like him are not jealous of that particular part of boomer culture but rather they are disgusted by it. See it through the eyes of a little one seeing their parents like that. I never experienced that but you can try to put yourself in their shoes. I think they are disgusted and infuriated at what went on.
My impulse is to say baloney baloney baloney. The boomer counter-culture was glorious, and no children who grew up with it would have been disgusted, because that disgust arises from cultural programming, so those kids who grew up with it would not have been programmed to be disgusted. Those who are "disgusted" were brought up outside and beyond the hippies and liberals of the sixties, and their disgust was created by parents and media who programmed it into them. The counter-cultural experiences, the social liberation, and all the other changes did not work out well for everyone involved, and some children were neglected and families broken; I understand that. Cynical response on the part of young Xers, embracing a philosophy of callous denial and materialism, getting hooked on the Reagan counter-revolution they grew up with, and getting stuck in individualist/anarchist utopian blindness, as Galen does, is not the answer to finding the right path in a world in transition to a new way of life, but to become a part of the transition, and to work to evolve it and make it better for all.

Quote: I do not see them as jealous but rather making a stone out into something prophetic. More than what they see it as. It is a whole new pair of eyes seeing it from the outside. Like what i am doing now trying to see it from xers eyes. Something i can only interpret as i was not alive at the time nor have i gone through something similar. When i was born boomers were a totally different creature altogether. Middle aged, focused on raising a new generation the way they wanted. To emulate what they constantly said was dying in this society. They were family focused and i did not see that wild side that xers saw. So if i have interpreted xers wrong they can correct me. Only they can explain from their perspective how they interpreted the actions of their elders. But i certainly see them feeling the opposite of jealous. As a millie part of me was jealous seeing the freedom boomers had at woodstock. Due to the fact i was put to nose in the books and pushed to be an over achiever. To make my family proud. To be better than my elders who left school when they were in their teens. I never went out and did something like that. I was always at home studying. But i am not jealous of the drug taking. Ugh i value my life and my family would be so disappointed if i did something like that.

You are educated to be against psychedelics (which are not "drugs" anyway) by your parents, so that's why you feel that way. LSD is not for everyone, but there's no reason to put it down or buy into the parental and media propaganda against it. It opens many peoples eyes to reality, and instead of oppressing it, it should be channeled and administered to people in the proper set and setting. If you were properly educated about psychedelics, you would know what those terms mean. But you and most Xers and Millies have instead been brainwashed into knee-jerk opposition. The music is a good substitute for people who don't want to take psychedelics, and so are mystical and new age pursuits that have become available to our culture since the sixties and seventies. That is a great opportunity for all of us. But it takes a curious person who is interested in climbing out of the limited lives we are programmed to lead; a person who wants a deeper and more aware way of life than, as you say, just keeping your nose in our books and to the grindstone.

I see no excuse for Xer cynicism. Economic and spiritual opportunity has been all around them, and reacting and throwing over the boomer experience was what was harmful to them, and not anything else. Xers such as Galen are resentful and jealous. There is no excuse for boomers either to turn away from the ideals of their youth and embracing conservative ideas. That is betrayal, pure and simple.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#30
(07-29-2016, 04:21 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 04:03 AM)Galen Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:45 AM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm interesting. Yeah I never saw any of it. It was quite something to see what some boomers were like in their youth. It was totally shocking. As xers saw the hypocrisy it does make me wonder why they think their ideas will conclude at the end of the 4T. I tell many boomers who are blindly idealistic it will never happen. But it never gets through to them. Such ignorance and delusion. It takes the majority of a society to make an ideal reality. A stable ideal that does not destroy the economy/planet is ideal as they are both connected to our very survival.....but many of the ideals i hear from older boomers (seems to always be those '40s boomers) do not sound realistic, nor sustainable. Such a waste of time trying. Heck i wonder if GIs had similar conversations with the lost about the missionaries lol. Perhaps not. I have heard the missionaries were much more stable prophets to a certain degree. Much more organized.

There is crucial difference between the last second turning and all of the previous second turnings in the US.  In the earlier examples there was a religious revival.  In many ways it was an effort to reclaim American culture.  While it did lead to some craziness such as Prohibition it never went as far off the rails.  The Boomers on the other hand were making a very conscious effort to reject western culture.  The Reverend Jones was an exception in that he embraced what I would consider a distortion of Christianity.  This is the crucial difference you need to understand to get a handle on why things got so crazy.  They tended to throw out western concepts of rationality and the need for evidence and logic.

There were a fair scattering of fifties Boomers that went that way as well.  I had Boomers step-brothers and step-sisters at a couple of point growing up.  One step-sister went down that road and the consequences were fatal and she was seventeen.
I wonder why they wanted to reject western culture? Devoid of the kind of eastern spiritual exploration that they desired? Throwing out evidence and western concepts of logic and rationality....if that is anything like Eric regarding mechanistic ideas or what is his favourite word for describing that way of thinking.....shit i have had too much beer to remember it right now. Hahahaha!
Anyway i would rather have a good grasp of reality rather than what nonsense they were eating up and dying for back then. Good to be a civic and get a good dose of reality at a young age. Although we will most likely make our own mistakes in the future. No doubt. We are after all imperfect.

I don't know what ideals from 40s boomers you mean, but it is wise to trim expectations when goals seem too far away from achievement. Yes, the ideals which liberal boomers embrace today are expressed by such people as those at the Democratic Convention; simple goals of making our planet sustainable, respecting the rights of all and opening up our society to greater opportunity.

Boomers were not dying for their ideals, although many did die for the old goals of beating communism that were forced upon them. Others refused to participate in that death march, and led us on the road to peace instead. It's our choice which road we follow, and this election will be crucial in that decision. Meanwhile, the philosophy of Alan Watts is just one example of simple pathways to recognizing the obvious realities we need to see if we are to create a sustainable and sane world. And it can be a balanced view that retains the best from the West, and yet sees beyond the limits of the western culture that is now part and parcel of the past in what is now a global society and NOT a "western" world at all. Our heritage is now the world's heritage, and not just The West's, and we need to be open to it all. Not fall for a philosophy that thinks that if we don't stay within "Western civilization" that we are somehow corrupted and degraded. Get with it! People who think they are separate individuals, as Xers tend to do, are prey to the false philosophies like trickle-down economics and social darwinism of the kind Galen promotes and clings to.

The philosophy of Ayn Rand and Mises is thoroughly and completely irrational, and to tout that as the alternative to "boomers throwing out evidence and rationality" totally discredits his statements. The ideals of the Enlightenment were about liberating people and creating progress, not enabling the powerful as libertarian philosophy does. Libertarian and Anarchist philosophy like that of Rand and Mises distorts "Western culture" into a caricature designed to deceive us into tearing down our government and our laws and removing all protection of the weak from the strong. That is not the best heritage from western culture at all. But that is what Galen upholds with all his heart and soul.

And btw, beer is not a very healthy avenue to spiritual or personal development in my opinion; rejecting and putting down psychedelics, and knocking spiritual seeking beyond outdated western concepts, while at the same time drinking too much beer, seems rather hypocritical to me. Alcoholism is a serious disease that ruins 100 times more lives than LSD ever did, and it lowers consciousness and does not raise it. I have never drunk beer; I find it totally repulsive, and it tastes horrible. Talk about negative cultural programming! I don't share a lot of your taste in music, nor in beverages either I guess Wink
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#31
(07-29-2016, 06:52 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 02:21 AM)taramarie Wrote: If anyone has a shred of insight and sensitivity one would know that Galen and other xers like him are not jealous of that particular part of boomer culture but rather they are disgusted by it. See it through the eyes of a little one seeing their parents like that. I never experienced that but you can try to put yourself in their shoes. I think they are disgusted and infuriated at what went on.
My impulse is to say baloney baloney baloney. The boomer counter-culture was glorious, and no children who grew up with it would have been disgusted, because that disgust arises from cultural programming, so those kids who grew up with it would not have been programmed to be disgusted. Those who are "disgusted" were brought up outside and beyond the hippies and liberals of the sixties, and their disgust was created by parents and media who programmed it into them. The counter-cultural experiences, the social liberation, and all the other changes did not work out well for everyone involved, and some children were neglected and families broken; I understand that. Cynical response on the part of young Xers, embracing a philosophy of callous denial and materialism, getting hooked on the Reagan counter-revolution they grew up with, and getting stuck in individualist/anarchist utopian blindness, as Galen does, is not the answer to finding the right path in a world in transition to a new way of life, but to become a part of the transition, and to work to evolve it and make it better for all.

Quote: I do not see them as jealous but rather making a stone out into something prophetic. More than what they see it as. It is a whole new pair of eyes seeing it from the outside. Like what i am doing now trying to see it from xers eyes. Something i can only interpret as i was not alive at the time nor have i gone through something similar. When i was born boomers were a totally different creature altogether. Middle aged, focused on raising a new generation the way they wanted. To emulate what they constantly said was dying in this society. They were family focused and i did not see that wild side that xers saw. So if i have interpreted xers wrong they can correct me. Only they can explain from their perspective how they interpreted the actions of their elders. But i certainly see them feeling the opposite of jealous. As a millie part of me was jealous seeing the freedom boomers had at woodstock. Due to the fact i was put to nose in the books and pushed to be an over achiever. To make my family proud. To be better than my elders who left school when they were in their teens. I never went out and did something like that. I was always at home studying. But i am not jealous of the drug taking. Ugh i value my life and my family would be so disappointed if i did something like that.

You are educated to be against psychedelics (which are not "drugs" anyway) by your parents, so that's why you feel that way. LSD is not for everyone, but there's no reason to put it down or buy into the parental and media propaganda against it. It opens many peoples eyes to reality, and instead of oppressing it, it should be channeled and administered to people in the proper set and setting. If you were properly educated about psychedelics, you would know what those terms mean. But you and most Xers and Millies have instead been brainwashed into knee-jerk opposition. The music is a good substitute for people who don't want to take psychedelics, and so are mystical and new age pursuits that have become available to our culture since the sixties and seventies. That is a great opportunity for all of us. But it takes a curious person who is interested in climbing out of the limited lives we are programmed to lead; a person who wants a deeper and more aware way of life than, as you say, just keeping your nose in our books and to the grindstone.

I see no excuse for Xer cynicism. Economic and spiritual opportunity has been all around them, and reacting and throwing over the boomer experience was what was harmful to them, and not anything else. Xers such as Galen are resentful and jealous. There is no excuse for boomers either to turn away from the ideals of their youth and embracing conservative ideas. That is betrayal, pure and simple.

Seeing as Galen and no xer so far has come forward to agree with you and Galen certainly did not disagree with me I think i am on the mark with this. I will believe their pov ONLY from their mouths tvm.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#32
(07-29-2016, 06:52 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 02:21 AM)taramarie Wrote: If anyone has a shred of insight and sensitivity one would know that Galen and other xers like him are not jealous of that particular part of boomer culture but rather they are disgusted by it. See it through the eyes of a little one seeing their parents like that. I never experienced that but you can try to put yourself in their shoes. I think they are disgusted and infuriated at what went on.
My impulse is to say baloney baloney baloney. The boomer counter-culture was glorious, and no children who grew up with it would have been disgusted, because that disgust arises from cultural programming, so those kids who grew up with it would not have been programmed to be disgusted. Those who are "disgusted" were brought up outside and beyond the hippies and liberals of the sixties, and their disgust was created by parents and media who programmed it into them. The counter-cultural experiences, the social liberation, and all the other changes did not work out well for everyone involved, and some children were neglected and families broken; I understand that. Cynical response on the part of young Xers, embracing a philosophy of callous denial and materialism, getting hooked on the Reagan counter-revolution they grew up with, and getting stuck in individualist/anarchist utopian blindness, as Galen does, is not the answer to finding the right path in a world in transition to a new way of life, but to become a part of the transition, and to work to evolve it and make it better for all.

Quote: I do not see them as jealous but rather making a stone out into something prophetic. More than what they see it as. It is a whole new pair of eyes seeing it from the outside. Like what i am doing now trying to see it from xers eyes. Something i can only interpret as i was not alive at the time nor have i gone through something similar. When i was born boomers were a totally different creature altogether. Middle aged, focused on raising a new generation the way they wanted. To emulate what they constantly said was dying in this society. They were family focused and i did not see that wild side that xers saw. So if i have interpreted xers wrong they can correct me. Only they can explain from their perspective how they interpreted the actions of their elders. But i certainly see them feeling the opposite of jealous. As a millie part of me was jealous seeing the freedom boomers had at woodstock. Due to the fact i was put to nose in the books and pushed to be an over achiever. To make my family proud. To be better than my elders who left school when they were in their teens. I never went out and did something like that. I was always at home studying. But i am not jealous of the drug taking. Ugh i value my life and my family would be so disappointed if i did something like that.

You are educated to be against psychedelics (which are not "drugs" anyway) by your parents, so that's why you feel that way. LSD is not for everyone, but there's no reason to put it down or buy into the parental and media propaganda against it. It opens many peoples eyes to reality, and instead of oppressing it, it should be channeled and administered to people in the proper set and setting. If you were properly educated about psychedelics, you would know what those terms mean. But you and most Xers and Millies have instead been brainwashed into knee-jerk opposition. The music is a good substitute for people who don't want to take psychedelics, and so are mystical and new age pursuits that have become available to our culture since the sixties and seventies. That is a great opportunity for all of us. But it takes a curious person who is interested in climbing out of the limited lives we are programmed to lead; a person who wants a deeper and more aware way of life than, as you say, just keeping your nose in our books and to the grindstone.

I see no excuse for Xer cynicism. Economic and spiritual opportunity has been all around them, and reacting and throwing over the boomer experience was what was harmful to them, and not anything else. Xers such as Galen are resentful and jealous. There is no excuse for boomers either to turn away from the ideals of their youth and embracing conservative ideas. That is betrayal, pure and simple.

It is a type of drug. The very site I provided says it is a drug. No I will never take that sort of thing. I value my future too much. As for beer...i cannot remember the last time i had a drink. Must have been months ago. I have a few drinks every few months. Moderation is wise. I always drink at home too so i am safe and others are safe. A few drinks with my mother before the weekend and it will be months i am sure next time i have a drink. Most of the time i am working and studying. My mother when she was my age was out at clubs drinking up till her friends collapsed in the grass. She got up to some stupid shit too. Personally i have never done that. I have a few drinks every few months and only at home always sharing it with my mother. Then i go to sleep. Both of us safe and sound at home. Passive compared to what that boomer did when she was my age. Boring in comparison maybe but least it is safe and as it is not often it is harmless. Now from what i have read lsd sounds quite dangerous. I would not go celebrating something like that. Even i would not go celebrating alcohol but i use it very wisely.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#33
(07-29-2016, 07:10 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 04:21 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 04:03 AM)Galen Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:45 AM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm interesting. Yeah I never saw any of it. It was quite something to see what some boomers were like in their youth. It was totally shocking. As xers saw the hypocrisy it does make me wonder why they think their ideas will conclude at the end of the 4T. I tell many boomers who are blindly idealistic it will never happen. But it never gets through to them. Such ignorance and delusion. It takes the majority of a society to make an ideal reality. A stable ideal that does not destroy the economy/planet is ideal as they are both connected to our very survival.....but many of the ideals i hear from older boomers (seems to always be those '40s boomers) do not sound realistic, nor sustainable. Such a waste of time trying. Heck i wonder if GIs had similar conversations with the lost about the missionaries lol. Perhaps not. I have heard the missionaries were much more stable prophets to a certain degree. Much more organized.

There is crucial difference between the last second turning and all of the previous second turnings in the US.  In the earlier examples there was a religious revival.  In many ways it was an effort to reclaim American culture.  While it did lead to some craziness such as Prohibition it never went as far off the rails.  The Boomers on the other hand were making a very conscious effort to reject western culture.  The Reverend Jones was an exception in that he embraced what I would consider a distortion of Christianity.  This is the crucial difference you need to understand to get a handle on why things got so crazy.  They tended to throw out western concepts of rationality and the need for evidence and logic.

There were a fair scattering of fifties Boomers that went that way as well.  I had Boomers step-brothers and step-sisters at a couple of point growing up.  One step-sister went down that road and the consequences were fatal and she was seventeen.
I wonder why they wanted to reject western culture? Devoid of the kind of eastern spiritual exploration that they desired? Throwing out evidence and western concepts of logic and rationality....if that is anything like Eric regarding mechanistic ideas or what is his favourite word for describing that way of thinking.....shit i have had too much beer to remember it right now. Hahahaha!
Anyway i would rather have a good grasp of reality rather than what nonsense they were eating up and dying for back then. Good to be a civic and get a good dose of reality at a young age. Although we will most likely make our own mistakes in the future. No doubt. We are after all imperfect.

I don't know what ideals from 40s boomers you mean, but it is wise to trim expectations when goals seem too far away from achievement. Yes, the ideals which liberal boomers embrace today are expressed by such people as those at the Democratic Convention; simple goals of making our planet sustainable, respecting the rights of all and opening up our society to greater opportunity.

Boomers were not dying for their ideals, although many did die for the old goals of beating communism that were forced upon them. Others refused to participate in that death march, and led us on the road to peace instead. It's our choice which road we follow, and this election will be crucial in that decision. Meanwhile, the philosophy of Alan Watts is just one example of simple pathways to recognizing the obvious realities we need to see if we are to create a sustainable and sane world. And it can be a balanced view that retains the best from the West, and yet sees beyond the limits of the western culture that is now part and parcel of the past in what is now a global society and NOT a "western" world at all. Our heritage is now the world's heritage, and not just The West's, and we need to be open to it all. Not fall for a philosophy that thinks that if we don't stay within "Western civilization" that we are somehow corrupted and degraded. Get with it! People who think they are separate individuals, as Xers tend to do, are prey to the false philosophies like trickle-down economics and social darwinism of the kind Galen promotes and clings to.

The philosophy of Ayn Rand and Mises is thoroughly and completely irrational, and to tout that as the alternative to "boomers throwing out evidence and rationality" totally discredits his statements. The ideals of the Enlightenment were about liberating people and creating progress, not enabling the powerful as libertarian philosophy does. Libertarian and Anarchist philosophy like that of Rand and Mises distorts "Western culture" into a caricature designed to deceive us into tearing down our government and our laws and removing all protection of the weak from the strong. That is not the best heritage from western culture at all. But that is what Galen upholds with all his heart and soul.

And btw, beer is not a very healthy avenue to spiritual or personal development in my opinion; rejecting and putting down psychedelics, and knocking spiritual seeking beyond outdated western concepts, while at the same time drinking too much beer, seems rather hypocritical to me. Alcoholism is a serious disease that ruins 100 times more lives than LSD ever did, and it lowers consciousness and does not raise it. I have never drunk beer; I find it totally repulsive, and it tastes horrible. Talk about negative cultural programming! I don't share a lot of your taste in music, nor in beverages either I guess Wink

There have been many different ideals i have heard from 40s boomers. Always 40s. They seem to be the most idealistic. But i will give you one example. One who was born '49 from America was a communist. He was getting a hell of a lot of hate from others. So i pulled them off him, let him speak then i asked him how he thinks this will become reality when clearly the majority of people in his society are against communism. He had nothing. He just kept saying oh wouldn't it be nice to live in a society like that? Pipe dream is all that it is. I said to make this reality the majority have to be in favour of such a society existing as they have to live in it. If the majority are against it it will not happen. The same applies to other ideals and it is wise to take note of how the majority feels about other ideals that boomers stand for because it is the younger generations (xer and us millies) who will be shaping it. If xers dismiss boomers for hypocrisy they evidently saw in their elders and us millies have been only getting this news 2nd hand from that era as we were not alive at the time how do those 40s idealistic boomers figure we will settle on one ideal and shape society around that ideal? I did not say all boomers were dying for their ideals. I was referring to the cultists at the time. Galen mentioned several in particular.

"Not fall for a philosophy that thinks that if we don't stay within "Western civilization" that we are somehow corrupted and degraded. Get with it! People who think they are separate individuals, as Xers tend to do, are prey to the false philosophies like trickle-down economics and social darwinism of the kind Galen promotes and clings to."

Well I was not aware it was considered "corrupted and degrading" I have no context on that. Being much younger than the two of you and all. I am not an xer and given my experience with wicca and my own thoughts on this we are individuals who live among the life around us. It created us, nurtures us and we are a part of nature. When we die we will become part of the earth once more.


"The ideals of the Enlightenment were about liberating people and creating progress"

Then why is it younger generations are not liberated? (regarding job opportunity, affordable housing, massive student debt if we want to live our dream only to find lack of jobs in many departments, and saddled with the debt that boomer leaders gathered for the country to lump it on younger generations to fix while they go into retirement....sometimes we also have to fork over for that too as some have not prepared for their retirement. My mother included (who also loves her credit cards too much....guess who has to fix that on top of my student debt, fact i have to live with her to feed her so i cannot move out....not that i would be able to afford to anyway. Thanks boomer leaders for the lack of job opportunities and the lack of affordable housing!) So grateful for the progress!

I already said my piece about beer above in an earlier post. You should try different types. On the rare occurrence that i drink i choose fruity tasting ones. Ever hear of craft beer?
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#34
(07-29-2016, 07:10 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 04:21 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 04:03 AM)Galen Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:45 AM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm interesting. Yeah I never saw any of it. It was quite something to see what some boomers were like in their youth. It was totally shocking. As xers saw the hypocrisy it does make me wonder why they think their ideas will conclude at the end of the 4T. I tell many boomers who are blindly idealistic it will never happen. But it never gets through to them. Such ignorance and delusion. It takes the majority of a society to make an ideal reality. A stable ideal that does not destroy the economy/planet is ideal as they are both connected to our very survival.....but many of the ideals i hear from older boomers (seems to always be those '40s boomers) do not sound realistic, nor sustainable. Such a waste of time trying. Heck i wonder if GIs had similar conversations with the lost about the missionaries lol. Perhaps not. I have heard the missionaries were much more stable prophets to a certain degree. Much more organized.

There is crucial difference between the last second turning and all of the previous second turnings in the US.  In the earlier examples there was a religious revival.  In many ways it was an effort to reclaim American culture.  While it did lead to some craziness such as Prohibition it never went as far off the rails.  The Boomers on the other hand were making a very conscious effort to reject western culture.  The Reverend Jones was an exception in that he embraced what I would consider a distortion of Christianity.  This is the crucial difference you need to understand to get a handle on why things got so crazy.  They tended to throw out western concepts of rationality and the need for evidence and logic.

There were a fair scattering of fifties Boomers that went that way as well.  I had Boomers step-brothers and step-sisters at a couple of point growing up.  One step-sister went down that road and the consequences were fatal and she was seventeen.
I wonder why they wanted to reject western culture? Devoid of the kind of eastern spiritual exploration that they desired? Throwing out evidence and western concepts of logic and rationality....if that is anything like Eric regarding mechanistic ideas or what is his favourite word for describing that way of thinking.....shit i have had too much beer to remember it right now. Hahahaha!
Anyway i would rather have a good grasp of reality rather than what nonsense they were eating up and dying for back then. Good to be a civic and get a good dose of reality at a young age. Although we will most likely make our own mistakes in the future. No doubt. We are after all imperfect.

I don't know what ideals from 40s boomers you mean, but it is wise to trim expectations when goals seem too far away from achievement. Yes, the ideals which liberal boomers embrace today are expressed by such people as those at the Democratic Convention; simple goals of making our planet sustainable, respecting the rights of all and opening up our society to greater opportunity.

Boomers were not dying for their ideals, although many did die for the old goals of beating communism that were forced upon them. Others refused to participate in that death march, and led us on the road to peace instead. It's our choice which road we follow, and this election will be crucial in that decision. Meanwhile, the philosophy of Alan Watts is just one example of simple pathways to recognizing the obvious realities we need to see if we are to create a sustainable and sane world. And it can be a balanced view that retains the best from the West, and yet sees beyond the limits of the western culture that is now part and parcel of the past in what is now a global society and NOT a "western" world at all. Our heritage is now the world's heritage, and not just The West's, and we need to be open to it all. Not fall for a philosophy that thinks that if we don't stay within "Western civilization" that we are somehow corrupted and degraded. Get with it! People who think they are separate individuals, as Xers tend to do, are prey to the false philosophies like trickle-down economics and social darwinism of the kind Galen promotes and clings to.

The philosophy of Ayn Rand and Mises is thoroughly and completely irrational, and to tout that as the alternative to "boomers throwing out evidence and rationality" totally discredits his statements. The ideals of the Enlightenment were about liberating people and creating progress, not enabling the powerful as libertarian philosophy does. Libertarian and Anarchist philosophy like that of Rand and Mises distorts "Western culture" into a caricature designed to deceive us into tearing down our government and our laws and removing all protection of the weak from the strong. That is not the best heritage from western culture at all. But that is what Galen upholds with all his heart and soul.

And btw, beer is not a very healthy avenue to spiritual or personal development in my opinion; rejecting and putting down psychedelics, and knocking spiritual seeking beyond outdated western concepts, while at the same time drinking too much beer, seems rather hypocritical to me. Alcoholism is a serious disease that ruins 100 times more lives than LSD ever did, and it lowers consciousness and does not raise it. I have never drunk beer; I find it totally repulsive, and it tastes horrible. Talk about negative cultural programming! I don't share a lot of your taste in music, nor in beverages either I guess Wink

Your opinion....btw i do not just drink beer. My tastes in alcohol are like my wide range taste in music. Expanse. Different types of vodka, rum, southern comfort, uzo, bailies, Amarula (thanks to my trip to south africa), craft beer, tequila and many others.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#35
(07-29-2016, 02:51 PM)taramarie Wrote: Seeing as Galen and no xer so far has come forward to agree with you and Galen certainly did not disagree with me I think i am on the mark with this. I will believe their pov ONLY from their mouths tvm.

Xer cynics don't have the ability to see themselves from beyond their own perspective. Not all Xers, just the Xer cynics like Galen.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#36
(07-29-2016, 03:04 PM)taramarie Wrote: It is a type of drug. The very site I provided says it is a drug. No I will never take that sort of thing. I value my future too much.

I know quite a bit about that stuff; LSD is not a drug, but it IS a mind-altering substance. Yes, something to be careful about, and not do it if you don't think it's for you. However, for many people, they have a different view, because it changed their lives for the better. No use denying it at all. You can say it's not for you, and accept that it is for others. That's what I do. And it added a lot to our culture. And it did not make people stupid as Galen thinks.

Quote: As for beer...i cannot remember the last time i had a drink. Must have been months ago. I have a few drinks every few months. Moderation is wise. I always drink at home too so i am safe and others are safe. A few drinks with my mother before the weekend and it will be months i am sure next time i have a drink. Most of the time i am working and studying. My mother when she was my age was out at clubs drinking up till her friends collapsed in the grass. She got up to some stupid shit too. Personally i have never done that. I have a few drinks every few months and only at home always sharing it with my mother. Then i go to sleep. Both of us safe and sound at home. Passive compared to what that boomer did when she was my age. Boring in comparison maybe but least it is safe and as it is not often it is harmless. Now from what i have read lsd sounds quite dangerous. I would not go celebrating something like that. Even i would not go celebrating alcohol but i use it very wisely.

Glad to hear that.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#37
(07-29-2016, 05:13 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 02:51 PM)taramarie Wrote: Seeing as Galen and no xer so far has come forward to agree with you and Galen certainly did not disagree with me I think i am on the mark with this. I will believe their pov ONLY from their mouths tvm.

Xer cynics don't have the ability to see themselves from beyond their own perspective. Not all Xers, just the Xer cynics like Galen.

But they are telling us how they perceived that era and you said "balony x3" That is also the inability to see outside how you perceived that era. For me, both are interesting and crucial to what will shape the future.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#38
(07-29-2016, 05:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:04 PM)taramarie Wrote: It is a type of drug. The very site I provided says it is a drug. No I will never take that sort of thing. I value my future too much.

I know quite a bit about that stuff; LSD is not a drug, but it IS a mind-altering substance. Yes, something to be careful about, and not do it if you don't think it's for you. However, for many people, they have a different view, because it changed their lives for the better. No use denying it at all. You can say it's not for you, and accept that it is for others. That's what I do. And it added a lot to our culture. And it did not make people stupid as Galen thinks.

Quote: As for beer...i cannot remember the last time i had a drink. Must have been months ago. I have a few drinks every few months. Moderation is wise. I always drink at home too so i am safe and others are safe. A few drinks with my mother before the weekend and it will be months i am sure next time i have a drink. Most of the time i am working and studying. My mother when she was my age was out at clubs drinking up till her friends collapsed in the grass. She got up to some stupid shit too. Personally i have never done that. I have a few drinks every few months and only at home always sharing it with my mother. Then i go to sleep. Both of us safe and sound at home. Passive compared to what that boomer did when she was my age. Boring in comparison maybe but least it is safe and as it is not often it is harmless. Now from what i have read lsd sounds quite dangerous. I would not go celebrating something like that. Even i would not go celebrating alcohol but i use it very wisely.

Glad to hear that.

I actually do not care if others use it. Freedom for all to do as they wish as long as it does not impact others is what i believe in. But a simple google search does come up with many sources saying it is a drug so i call it what it is.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#39
(07-29-2016, 03:36 PM)taramarie Wrote: There have been many different ideals i have heard from 40s boomers. Always 40s. They seem to be the most idealistic. But i will give you one example. One who was born '49 from America was a communist. He was getting a hell of a lot of hate from others. So i pulled them off him, let him speak then i asked him how he thinks this will become reality when clearly the majority of people in his society are against communism. He had nothing. He just kept saying oh wouldn't it be nice to live in a society like that? Pipe dream is all that it is. I said to make this reality the majority have to be in favour of such a society existing as they have to live in it. If the majority are against it it will not happen. The same applies to other ideals and it is wise to take note of how the majority feels about other ideals that boomers stand for because it is the younger generations (xer and us millies) who will be shaping it. If xers dismiss boomers for hypocrisy they evidently saw in their elders and us millies have been only getting this news 2nd hand from that era as we were not alive at the time how do those 40s idealistic boomers figure we will settle on one ideal and shape society around that ideal? I did not say all boomers were dying for their ideals. I was referring to the cultists at the time. Galen mentioned several in particular.
As I said, though, Marxists and communists are rare among our generation. Galen thinks every liberal is a communist; a common ploy by American right-wingers. What Galen mentioned is irrelevant. Jonestown had nothing to do with alternative religion or spirituality.

I raise caution about the idea that "I said to make this reality the majority have to be in favour of such a society existing as they have to live in it. If the majority are against it it will not happen. The same applies to other ideals and it is wise to take note of how the majority feels about other ideals that boomers stand for because it is the younger generations (xer and us millies) who will be shaping it." For one thing, the majority does not shape opinion; not all things are decided by votes, and a minority takes the lead in shaping opinion. Idealists always must do that. The creative minority creates culture and society. And young people get older real fast, and become more conservative. We need people of all ages to create the world. All ages have plenty to learn, and we can all be young again and learn.

Quote:"The ideals of the Enlightenment were about liberating people and creating progress"

Then why is it younger generations are not liberated? (regarding job opportunity, affordable housing, massive student debt if we want to live our dream only to find lack of jobs in many departments, and saddled with the debt that boomer leaders gathered for the country to lump it on younger generations to fix while they go into retirement....sometimes we also have to fork over for that too as some have not prepared for their retirement. My mother included (who also loves her credit cards too much....guess who has to fix that on top of my student debt, fact i have to live with her to feed her so i cannot move out....not that i would be able to afford to anyway. Thanks boomer leaders for the lack of job opportunities and the lack of affordable housing!) So grateful for the progress!

I already said my piece about beer above in an earlier post. You should try different types. On the rare occurrence that i drink i choose fruity tasting ones. Ever hear of craft beer?

Boomer leaders were not the only ones who have stalled progress; we can thank GI Ronald Reagan for most of that. He started piling up the debt and shaping society to benefit only the 1%. Those who blame boomers for trickle-down economics don't know what they're talking about. We supported Reagan the least. Those who fail to blame trickle-down Reaganomics for our lack of progress don't know what they're talking about either.

But none of that has to do with the Enlightenment 250 years ago. That is just the movement people value the most in "Western Civilization." The libertarians like Galen just distort it, and use it to persuade us that we must look only to "The West" for our ideas and ideals, and to say that it supports their proposals to abolish government and laws and to allow the strong to abuse the weak in our society.

So they denounce movements and philosophies that help us to see beyond western individualism as denying "western civilization." But we need to see beyond individualism. Galen does not; and his misguided critique of me, and boomers, and philosophies like those of Alan Watts, stems from his unwillingness to see the obvious point that we are not separate individuals but, as you say, part of Nature, and part of the greater reality. That is the point I'm making; not that we don't need more progress today beyond what the older generations of today have achieved.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#40
(07-29-2016, 05:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 03:36 PM)taramarie Wrote: There have been many different ideals i have heard from 40s boomers. Always 40s. They seem to be the most idealistic. But i will give you one example. One who was born '49 from America was a communist. He was getting a hell of a lot of hate from others. So i pulled them off him, let him speak then i asked him how he thinks this will become reality when clearly the majority of people in his society are against communism. He had nothing. He just kept saying oh wouldn't it be nice to live in a society like that? Pipe dream is all that it is. I said to make this reality the majority have to be in favour of such a society existing as they have to live in it. If the majority are against it it will not happen. The same applies to other ideals and it is wise to take note of how the majority feels about other ideals that boomers stand for because it is the younger generations (xer and us millies) who will be shaping it. If xers dismiss boomers for hypocrisy they evidently saw in their elders and us millies have been only getting this news 2nd hand from that era as we were not alive at the time how do those 40s idealistic boomers figure we will settle on one ideal and shape society around that ideal? I did not say all boomers were dying for their ideals. I was referring to the cultists at the time. Galen mentioned several in particular.
As I said, though, Marxists and communists are rare among our generation. Galen thinks every liberal is a communist; a common ploy by American right-wingers. What Galen mentioned is irrelevant. Jonestown had nothing to do with alternative religion or spirituality.

I raise caution about the idea that "I said to make this reality the majority have to be in favour of such a society existing as they have to live in it. If the majority are against it it will not happen. The same applies to other ideals and it is wise to take note of how the majority feels about other ideals that boomers stand for because it is the younger generations (xer and us millies) who will be shaping it." For one thing, the majority does not shape opinion; not all things are decided by votes, and a minority takes the lead in shaping opinion. Idealists always must do that. The creative minority creates culture and society. And young people get older real fast, and become more conservative. We need people of all ages to create the world. All ages have plenty to learn, and we can all be young again and learn.

Quote:"The ideals of the Enlightenment were about liberating people and creating progress"

Then why is it younger generations are not liberated? (regarding job opportunity, affordable housing, massive student debt if we want to live our dream only to find lack of jobs in many departments, and saddled with the debt that boomer leaders gathered for the country to lump it on younger generations to fix while they go into retirement....sometimes we also have to fork over for that too as some have not prepared for their retirement. My mother included (who also loves her credit cards too much....guess who has to fix that on top of my student debt, fact i have to live with her to feed her so i cannot move out....not that i would be able to afford to anyway. Thanks boomer leaders for the lack of job opportunities and the lack of affordable housing!) So grateful for the progress!

I already said my piece about beer above in an earlier post. You should try different types. On the rare occurrence that i drink i choose fruity tasting ones. Ever hear of craft beer?

Boomer leaders were not the only ones who have stalled progress; we can thank GI Ronald Reagan for most of that. He started piling up the debt and shaping society to benefit only the 1%. Those who blame boomers for trickle-down economics don't know what they're talking about. We supported Reagan the least. Those who fail to blame trickle-down Reaganomics for our lack of progress don't know what they're talking about either.

But none of that has to do with the Enlightenment 250 years ago. That is just the movement people value the most in "Western Civilization." The libertarians like Galen just distort it, and use it to persuade us that we must look only to "The West" for our ideas and ideals, and to say that it supports their proposals to abolish government and laws and to allow the strong to abuse the weak in our society.

So they denounce movements and philosophies that help us to see beyond western individualism as denying "western civilization." But we need to see beyond individualism. Galen does not; and his misguided critique of me, and boomers, and philosophies like those of Alan Watts, stems from his unwillingness to see the obvious point that we are not separate individuals but, as you say, part of Nature, and part of the greater reality. That is the point I'm making; not that we don't need more progress today beyond what the older generations of today have achieved.

Just so you know I am actually aware of the differences between communists and liberals. I say that '49 boomer was a commie because he actually said it himself.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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