The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

Is the Right to Life a human right?

[pbrower2a]

(04-05-2020, 05:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

Is the Right to Life a human right?

Unless you are referring strictly to a ban on abortions it is.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-03-2020, 06:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Hmm.  About the time the coronavirus exploded, this thread seems to have died too.  Classic seems to have vanished from the forums.  He is not here to defend the ignoring of science by crying hoax or fake news, the inability to solve problems in the name of low taxes and small government.  Why not?  Save money by firing the people who prepare for pandemics?  With global warming and bridge infrastructure being slow problems that can seem prudent to ignore by elderly leaders, the virus is a much faster acting problem.  It brought things to a head.

In many ways the virus seems designed to wake up a self oriented populace to focus on the country rather than themselves.  The only answer, other than dropping dead, is for big government to throw lots of money at the problem while telling the populace how to respond.  The alternative is to watch grandma drop dead.

Is there anyone ready to speak up now for the Red pattern in it’s extreme?  I am not saying LBJ’s Great Society didn’t take things too far.  We were really into throwing lots of money at big problems in those days.  Even the G.I. generation needed a selfish do nothing break.

But is anyone left who thinks the break’s time isn’t at an end?  What do Classic’s ‘Americans’ become in the face of a real threat?

I took a break. As I've mentioned before, you don't have to worry about Classic's America because Classic's America is capable of getting through just about anything these days. As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-05-2020, 05:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

Is the Right to Life a human right?

Not if you're a liberal these days.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm. Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace. I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-05-2020, 09:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 05:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

Is the Right to Life a human right?

Not if you're a liberal these days.

Admittedly, the right to life did not make it into Eleanor Roosevelt's and the UN's list of human rights.  It shows up more in novels and debates.  Still, most crimes are also civil rights violations.  You are taking away various things that are prized, with or without association with a right.  So, murder is not a human rights violation?  Whatever.  I don't think it much of a hot partisan question, but at least early on in the coronavirus problem Republicans (at least the Establishment type) valued property more, Democrats valued life more.  I would say the importance of these values goes with what the groups think is important.

We will see how your people from the center of the country think when it is their life that is at risk.

[pbrower2a]

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-03-2020, 06:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Hmm.  About the time the coronavirus exploded, this thread seems to have died too.  Classic seems to have vanished from the forums.  He is not here to defend the ignoring of science by crying hoax or fake news, the inability to solve problems in the name of low taxes and small government.  Why not?  Save money by firing the people who prepare for pandemics?  With global warming and bridge infrastructure being slow problems that can seem prudent to ignore by elderly leaders, the virus is a much faster acting problem.  It brought things to a head.

In many ways the virus seems designed to wake up a self oriented populace to focus on the country rather than themselves.  The only answer, other than dropping dead, is for big government to throw lots of money at the problem while telling the populace how to respond.  The alternative is to watch grandma drop dead.

Is there anyone ready to speak up now for the Red pattern in it’s extreme?  I am not saying LBJ’s Great Society didn’t take things too far.  We were really into throwing lots of money at big problems in those days.  Even the G.I. generation needed a selfish do nothing break.

But is anyone left who thinks the break’s time isn’t at an end?  What do Classic’s ‘Americans’ become in the face of a real threat?

I took a break. As I've mentioned before, you don't have to worry about Classic's America because Classic's America is capable of getting through just about anything these days. As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

"Your" America enables a callow demagogue who has told them exactly what they want to hear even if such is contrary to rational science, greatly distorts what is generally known about human nature, and drips with animus. "Your" America has yet to recognize how intellectually and morally empty, yet full of himself, that our President is. "Your" America has an economic vision of doing things on the cheap even when such does great harm to the many on behalf of entrenched elites. "Your" America has poor impulse control and much proclivity toward superstition. 

We can all be behind the times. I used to be on top of technological change... but that was forty years ago. I could return to the technological ways of 1980 and be happy. High technology is no unmixed blessing; people who don't know what to do with it can get into big trouble. It better serves wise and decent people than it serves dullards and reprobates.

High technology has given us more power to do delightful things. It has also given us more capacity to hurt people badly. Maybe the tweets and Facebook messages that drip with cruelty are no worse than the old poison-pen articles. Human nature has not changed that much since antiquity. Wise people still read Plato, and some people can get great moral sophistication out of expert disputation of the content of the Torah and Talmud. (Good reason exists for all the excellent Jewish lawyers, and it is not that Jews are particularly greedy and materialistic; from my experience they are no more greedy or materialistic than the rest of us). 

To do best with the technology of using information we need more formal education -- not less. More people need more education, which means that the old norm of K-12 is no longer enough. K-14 must become the new norm because economics, psychology, and comparative politics is not high-school material. So people will be more sophisticated and still do blue-collar work? We still need people to do oil changes and drive tractors. The real tragedy is that people do their work, under whatever collar, and live in gross ignorance. K-14 education should of course expand our culture so that we know of the treasures that bring more bliss than some mindless consumerism. Just think of it. My world fell apart one day as I got the introduction to poverty in the most materialistic society on Earth, one with little mercy toward the poor. You guessed it: it is a country that demands rugged individualism yet treats individuality as an extreme heresy. 

To be blunt, I was contemplating suicide and the means of achieving it, and this music  reminded me that there was something for which to live. 



 

I'm not going to tell you which version is best. It takes an hour to perform, but this delightful work needs every moment.  

"Your" America has little respect for the high-brow. Mine does. Mine can reach into the past, as to music 200 (Schubert), 250 (Haydn), 300 (J S Bach), or 400 (Monteverdi) and find ample riches... and don't ignore music more recent such as string quartets of Bartok and Shostakovich. Human nature does not change, especially in its ability to appreciate cultural expressions that say much in an hour or so. This work takes an hour, and it takes one on a roller coaster of emotions. Despair and hope are opposite sides of the same coin. 

I do not consider myself better for knowing this -- only fortunate. Wise people may not believe in luck, but when they get a lucky break they certainly exploit it to the fullest. 

We are all going through a rough time. Many of us have spare time on our hands that we never expected, and such is terrifying. Plenty of people had no idea of how people would live as the normal workweek went from seventy hours a week to forty... and we are going to have to struggle with the consequences of high and inexpensive productivity that can get us much the same with twenty hours of work as we got with forty. We are stuck with recorded video or with cable-casts for motion pictures. It is cheap to drive a car, but there is no place to go. People used to talk, but scared as people are to get or spread viruses, people zip their lips in grocery stores as if they were scared to let out some secrets to the Abwehr or the Gestapo. Libraries and concert halls are closed.  If there is one silver lining in this plague it is that those who survive it will come out of it knowing what matters and what doesn't. Just think of the experienced the London Blitz, truly a scary time; only then could they realize how precious life could be and how much meaning life can have.  

OK. I am 64. Crass expressions of materialism turn me off. Sports cars don't excite me... but I outgrew my love for vehicular speed before I was old enough to drive. I do not need to own a painting to appreciate it. I'd rather create than wallow in materialism.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

Where did you get that information? CNN? So, what was Obama's pandemic planning doing? Just talking about it or something? So, where are all the ventilators and stockpiles of medical supplies? Let me guess, the UN has them all or some liberal based humanitarian group abroad has them all? So, what is the priority now? Let me guess, funding illegal immigration like before or is it abortion or so called global warning? Do you know why Bernie is getting his ass kicked by a half wit these days? I assume the Democratic base may finally be in the process of pulling its head out of its ass. It's just an assumption.

[Ragnarök_62]

(04-06-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

Where did you get that information? CNN? So, what was Obama's pandemic planning doing? Just talking about it or something? So, where are all the ventilators and stockpiles of medical supplies? Let me guess, the UN has them all or some liberal based humanitarian group abroad has them all? So, what is the priority now? Let me guess, funding illegal immigration like before or is it abortion or so called global warning? Do you know why Bernie is getting his ass kicked by a half wit these days? I assume the Democratic base may finally be in the process of pulling its head out of its ass. It's just an assumption.

Shit man, it's not Obama's fault or Trump's fault.  Blame corporate America for this.  Corporate America is the reason there are few ventilator factories in the US along with pretty much everything else.  It's high time to lower the boom.  Rev up antitrust actions, raise the taxes sky high on the wealthy and corporations.  This is easy.  Just repeal all tax cuts and deregulation enacted after 1980.  And Classic, you know what?  My inner anger is seething. I want to destroy a lot of big biz.  Here's another good idea.  Sanction and shake down all tax shelters. Demand bank  records from them, and start filling up the prisons with CEOS.  If we drain enough money from corporate america, then they won't have enough to lobby with.  This is one way you end run stupid Supreme Court decisions.   Abortion?  I'm a male and that means I must defer to females. It affects females and not males obviously.  Those bloviating  Evangelical pastors who are almost always male need to STFU.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-06-2020, 12:53 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

Where did you get that information? CNN? So, what was Obama's pandemic planning doing? Just talking about it or something? So, where are all the ventilators and stockpiles of medical supplies? Let me guess, the UN has them all or some liberal based humanitarian group abroad has them all? So, what is the priority now? Let me guess, funding illegal immigration like before or is it abortion or so called global warning? Do you know why Bernie is getting his ass kicked by a half wit these days? I assume the Democratic base may finally be in the process of pulling its head out of its ass. It's just an assumption.

Shit man, it's not Obama's fault or Trump's fault.  Blame corporate America for this.  Corporate America is the reason there are few ventilator factories in the US along with pretty much everything else.  It's high time to lower the boom.  Rev up antitrust actions, raise the taxes sky high on the wealthy and corporations.  This is easy.  Just repeal all tax cuts and deregulation enacted after 1980.  And Classic, you know what?  My inner anger is seething. I want to destroy a lot of big biz.  Here's another good idea.  Sanction and shake down all tax shelters. Demand bank  records from them, and start filling up the prisons with CEOS.  If we drain enough money from corporate america, then they won't have enough to lobby with.  This is one way you end run stupid Supreme Court decisions.   Abortion?  I'm a male and that means I must defer to females. It affects females and not males obviously.  Those bloviating  Evangelical pastors who are almost always male need to STFU.

It's China's fault and our association with the global economy to a lesser extent. I hope you're not dumb enough to think that's racist like the liberal media thought/ told everyone that it was initially. You're a big government guy. Aren't you a bit pissed that Obama had the means and the capability to stockpile medical equipment and supplies for a large scale pandemic instead of wasting a trillion that amounted to only a few hundred billions for roads and a healthcare need by some or political need as I see it? Yes, I'm tired of preachy Evangelicals and preachy liberals and all their sermons. You may hate corporate America and hate corporate types but it will most likely be corporate America that leads us out of this mess because big government wasn't prepared again. So, how many big government failures do liberals need to see before they lose their faith and stop promoting liberal dreams of grandeur?

[Classic-Xer]

(04-05-2020, 11:14 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Admittedly, the right to life did not make it into Eleanor Roosevelt's and the UN's list of human rights.  It shows up more in novels and debates.  Still, most crimes are also civil rights violations.  You are taking away various things that are prized, with or without association with a right.  So, murder is not a human rights violation?  Whatever.  I don't think it much of a hot partisan question, but at least early on in the coronavirus problem Republicans (at least the Establishment type) valued property more, Democrats valued life more.  I would say the importance of these values goes with what the groups think is important.

We will see how your people from the center of the country think when it is their life that is at risk.

You better hope we don't get there because you might find yourselves being isolated and cut off from us and the world. BTW, what liberals associate with life and what conservatives associate with life are obviously different. From what I can tell, the liberals don't have much of a life compared to most conservatives these days. Have you ever lived without a home? Have you ever lived without an income from a business? You better wake up dude and get your priorities straight or values in line with my America so to speak.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-06-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

Where did you get that information? CNN? So, what was Obama's pandemic planning doing? Just talking about it or something? So, where are all the ventilators and stockpiles of medical supplies? Let me guess, the UN has them all or some liberal based humanitarian group abroad has them all? So, what is the priority now? Let me guess, funding illegal immigration like before or is it abortion or so called global warning? Do you know why Bernie is getting his ass kicked by a half wit these days? I assume the Democratic base may finally be in the process of pulling its head out of its ass. It's just an assumption.

Worse.  Mostly MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.  She has had several of the pandemic planners from previous administrations on her show.  She opens most every interview section with an expert with an invitation to critique her opening monolog, and they inevitably report it as just right.  While there is no doubt that she reports from a blue perspective, I know of no claims that her reporting is false, as opposed to common claims that the White House lies to its advantage and Fox News out of habit.

The army has one large federal stockpile of ventilators and offered it to be used in the epidemic, but reports that the White House did not inform them of where to send any.  They are sitting idle last time I caught it reported on.  However, the stockpile was not large enough to handle New York’s peak, let alone the country.  FEMA was sitting on another stockpile, but it was not going to the blue states or the red states either whose governors had made Trump mad by quoting the science that contradicted his happy talk.  He seems to be using ventilator and PPE equipment as revenge tools to get even against his perceived opponents who are just striving to preserve lives under their care.

The Coronavirus is the priority currently.  Rachel’s reporting might as well be The Coronavirus Show the last few months, and she reflects much of the blue’s priority on attention given.  As usual, you are speaking out of ignorance.  While I understand that you are allergic to Truth, you really ought to catch a little of the blue reporting if you are hoping to counter it with something more specific than screaming ‘lies’ or ‘fake news’ over and over.  The writing in ignorance is becoming obvious.

The Democratic base was focused on beating Bernie, of selecting a guy with middle of the road views who the Republicans would have more trouble demonizing.  I suspect that they are making a mistake, that extreme action is required to deal with the virus rather than blandness.  This may become obvious before the rescheduled convention, but that may be too late.  I can only hope he can become more aggressive in time, or his VP choice when it is her turn.

[Ragnarök_62]

(04-06-2020, 01:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: <snip>
Shit man, it's not Obama's fault or Trump's fault.  Blame corporate America for this.  Corporate America is the reason there are few ventilator factories in the US along with pretty much everything else.  It's high time to lower the boom.  Rev up antitrust actions, raise the taxes sky high on the wealthy and corporations.  This is easy.  Just repeal all tax cuts and deregulation enacted after 1980.  And Classic, you know what?  My inner anger is seething. I want to destroy a lot of big biz.  Here's another good idea.  Sanction and shake down all tax shelters. Demand bank  records from them, and start filling up the prisons with CEOS.  If we drain enough money from corporate america, then they won't have enough to lobby with.  This is one way you end run stupid Supreme Court decisions.   Abortion?  I'm a male and that means I must defer to females. It affects females and not males obviously.  Those bloviating  Evangelical pastors who are almost always male need to STFU.

It's China's fault and our association with the global economy to a lesser extent. I hope you're not dumb enough to think that's racist like the liberal media thought/ told everyone that it was initially. You're a big government guy. Aren't you a bit pissed that Obama had the means and the capability to stockpile medical equipment and supplies for a large scale pandemic instead of wasting a trillion that amounted to only a few hundred billions for roads and a healthcare need by some or political need as I see it? Yes, I'm tired of preachy Evangelicals and preachy liberals and all their sermons. You may hate corporate America and hate corporate types but it will most likely be corporate America that leads us out of this mess because big government wasn't prepared again. So, how many big government failures do liberals need to see before they lose their faith  and stop promoting liberal dreams of grandeur?

No, I don't watch CIA NEWS NETWORK or believe a thing they prattle about.  Like "Russia, Russia, Russia" all of the time.  I've heard reds under the bed all my fucking life.   NeoMckartheyism is just so lame and old.  Look, Russia's it's own country, and I don't care what they do, as long it does not affect real US security interests, just the homeland, nothing more. We can't take of ourselves, let along anyone else. The same goes for China.  I don't give a shit what China does in it's own country.  China's destiny belongs to the Chinese people, not a bunch of know it all Westerner idiots who've turned there own countries into shitholes!  Just look at how well the EU is doing.  What a shitshow there. No wonder Serbia just told the EU to fuck off.

Uh, what the fuck did China do?  Did they put a gun to CEO's heads and tell them to ship the factories?  Fuck no!!!!  America needs to fucking grow up , look in the mirror and assess the decisions we, the US made to cause this shitshow.  Globalism is the blame for the virus.  Any, and I mean any pandemic is just one airplane flight away from spreading.  That's what happened with the Corona Virus.  Dotard Trump didn't shut the international flights down, so I'm point a finger of blame on him for caring about fucking Wall Street instead of the America People. I'm sure Zombie Joe would do something just like that. It's both parties, united with corporate america over all.  Obama was bad enough, but after all, it's Dotard who unfunded our pandemic surveillance. 

Corporate America carries most of the blame for this.  I'm not a "Liberal", like you think. I'm a straight on economic nationalist. And yes, the vision I have of government is even bigger and badder than piss in the pot liberals.  Here's my agenda.  I'm gonna lay a WWII type of industrial policy on you.  Here's how it goes.  First any corporation that needs a bail out will have to issue stock and let the government own said stock and the government will appoint a slate of corporate directors who shall oversee proper repayment of any and all government ball money. Next, the directors shall oversee the disbursement of "worker capital", that is to say indirect/direct stock ownership for the American working class.  <-  Working class = bottom 80% of US citizens.  And yes, I'm saying it.  I'm full on for formal industrial policy. It also means I'd like more tariffs, hey at least Dotard got that right....  Industrial policy means no more of this stupid "just learn to code". It means telling corporate America to produce needed things right here in the US and it will tell corporations to determine what kind of labor is needed to do this. The government and corporations shall then establish formal job training to career. Employees shall have mandatory labor union representation and corporate board participation. FDR did something like this in the New Deal. I'll call my policy the "Real Deal".
As for big government, well yeah, that's the case now after 40 years of Reganoid policies.  The Federal government works just fine for it's real constituency, corporate America.  It's not the size of government that matters, but rather who it serves.  So tell what Classic.  How about we both support nuking any and all tax loopholes, all subsidies, agriculture, oil, wall street, everything.  Next, nationalize and audit the Fed. I want to know about all of the Fed's slush funds.   For those I'd demand abrupt shutdown, regardless of the fucking stock market.  It' can crash to 0 for all I care.  Corporate America leading anything good for the US.  Get real they've sold us down the river long ago.  This clusterfuck is their fault, all their fault.  They are the ones who lobbied for tax cuts, their the ones who shipped that jobs overseas. They're the reason we have no medical supplies right when we need them.  They're the reason why Americans have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck.  They are the reason Americans are dying in huge numbers.  It's they're fault and that's that.

By the way, the stuff I want is all pretty much brand new or an update on good policies in the past. I'd certainly get rid of a big chunk of waste, fraud and abuse, which is the Department of Defense.  I think I can cut that sucker by 90% and have enough for a good defensive posture .

[Classic-Xer]

(04-06-2020, 02:03 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Worse.  Mostly MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.  She has had several of the pandemic planners from previous administrations on her show.  She opens most every interview section with an expert with an invitation to critique her opening monolog, and they inevitably report it as just right.  While there is no doubt that she reports from a blue perspective, I know of no claims that her reporting is false, as opposed to common claims that the White House lies to its advantage and Fox News out of habit.

The army has one large federal stockpile of ventilators and offered it to be used in the epidemic, but reports that the White House did not inform them of where to send any.  They are sitting idle last time I caught it reported on.  However, the stockpile was not large enough to handle New York’s peak, let alone the country.  FEMA was sitting on another stockpile, but it was not going to the blue states or the red states either whose governors had made Trump mad by quoting the science that contradicted his happy talk.  He seems to be using ventilator and PPE equipment as revenge tools to get even against his perceived opponents who are just striving to preserve lives under their care.

The Coronavirus is the priority currently.  Rachel’s reporting might as well be The Coronavirus Show the last few months, and she reflects much of the blue’s priority on attention given.  As usual, you are speaking out of ignorance.  While I understand that you are allergic to Truth, you really ought to catch a little of the blue reporting if you are hoping to counter it with something more specific than screaming ‘lies’ or ‘fake news’ over and over.  The writing in ignorance is becoming obvious.

The Democratic base was focused on beating Bernie, of selecting a guy with middle of the road views who the Republicans would have more trouble demonizing.  I suspect that they are making a mistake, that extreme action is required to deal with the virus rather than blandness.  This may become obvious before the rescheduled convention, but that may be too late.  I can only hope he can become more aggressive in time, or his VP choice when it is her turn.

Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

[Eric the Green]

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 02:03 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Worse.  Mostly MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.  She has had several of the pandemic planners from previous administrations on her show.  She opens most every interview section with an expert with an invitation to critique her opening monolog, and they inevitably report it as just right.  While there is no doubt that she reports from a blue perspective, I know of no claims that her reporting is false, as opposed to common claims that the White House lies to its advantage and Fox News out of habit.

The army has one large federal stockpile of ventilators and offered it to be used in the epidemic, but reports that the White House did not inform them of where to send any.  They are sitting idle last time I caught it reported on.  However, the stockpile was not large enough to handle New York’s peak, let alone the country.  FEMA was sitting on another stockpile, but it was not going to the blue states or the red states either whose governors had made Trump mad by quoting the science that contradicted his happy talk.  He seems to be using ventilator and PPE equipment as revenge tools to get even against his perceived opponents who are just striving to preserve lives under their care.

The Coronavirus is the priority currently.  Rachel’s reporting might as well be The Coronavirus Show the last few months, and she reflects much of the blue’s priority on attention given.  As usual, you are speaking out of ignorance.  While I understand that you are allergic to Truth, you really ought to catch a little of the blue reporting if you are hoping to counter it with something more specific than screaming ‘lies’ or ‘fake news’ over and over.  The writing in ignorance is becoming obvious.

The Democratic base was focused on beating Bernie, of selecting a guy with middle of the road views who the Republicans would have more trouble demonizing.  I suspect that they are making a mistake, that extreme action is required to deal with the virus rather than blandness.  This may become obvious before the rescheduled convention, but that may be too late.  I can only hope he can become more aggressive in time, or his VP choice when it is her turn.

Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

Liberals can't do much because the right-wing blocks are so big and powerful. The partisan divide can't be healed or unified without a decisive struggle.

Biden is a strange fellow. He does have a passionate style when he gets it going, and if he's willing to take some major actions it could work. Or he could just flake out and droop over and away. We'll see. In spite of being seen as creepy because he touches people in places that some people don't like, he also comes forth with a moral voice. It could resonate.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

The various guests were in the front lines for AIDS, S1N1 and SARS among others. As for ‘ignorant and partisan”, what is there in the above posting that says anything? How can I respond if there is nothing there?

Again, you should try watching a few of Rachel’s shows. If you are going to criticize something or some group, know something about what they are saying or doing. If you don’t bother to learn, all you can do in show your ignorance.

[pbrower2a]

(04-07-2020, 02:20 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

The various guests were in the front lines for AIDS, S1N1 and SARS among others.  As for ‘ignorant and partisan”, what is there in the above posting that says anything?  How can I respond if there is nothing there?

Again, you should try watching a few of Rachel’s shows.  If you are going to criticize something or some group, know something about what they are saying or doing.  If you don’t bother to learn, all you can do is to show your ignorance.

A conservative may dislike Rachel Maddow's politics, but as a rule she is a superb journalist. She gets the facts right. The dispute that a conservative has with her is with her interpretation. I'm guessing that she is simply the peak of a pyramid that does what journalists rightly do: reporting and (just as important) fact-checking. She connects undeniable fact with solid logic to get a conclusion that usually satisfies me. Contrast someone like Sean Hannity; he fits the story to his ideology, and if the story falls apart -- so do his conclusions.

As with Rachel Maddow as a journalist, so it was with Obama as an administrator. Neither knows everything, and both well know that. There is someone wiser, but such people are not good at expressing themselves or are too busy with their work to make public statements. Both know that politics and journalism exist to convince people, and someone like either is able to put such in the terms of a competent layman. 

Physicians do not do law or engineering; attorneys do not do medicine or engineering; engineers do not do medicine or law. Jacks-of-all-trades can go from one area of mediocre performance to another wherein training is slight... but develop certain skills to a certain level and one precludes the ability to do other things well for what one gets paid amply. The cellist Yo-Yo Ma does not play piano in some sleazy dive, but the piano player in a sleazy dive could switch to cashiering in a grocery store if the sleazy dives are shut down under stay-at-home orders.

I have yet to figure what Donald Trump does well that is a legitimate achievement. Oh, he got elected? In a fluke.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-07-2020, 02:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I have yet to figure what Donald Trump does well that is a legitimate achievement. Oh, he got elected? In a fluke.

Not a fluke. He was willing to tell a bunch of people what they thought they believed. The Republican Establishment had long had enough affinity to the elites that the Tea Party did not trust them. Reagan was in touch with his time, but years of ever more extreme policies enough to keep moving the US further in the same direction was not practical. They had squeezed all the blood out of the stone, but the base wanted more. Trump gave it to them. But while ever smaller government, smaller taxes, and thus the less willingness to solve or even perceive of problems is a direction that sounds better than it is, a direction one can only sustain for a finite time.

[David Horn]

(04-07-2020, 02:20 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

The various guests were in the front lines for AIDS, S1N1 and SARS among others.  As for ‘ignorant and partisan”, what is there in the above posting that says anything?  How can I respond if there is nothing there?

Again, you should try watching a few of Rachel’s shows.  If you are going to criticize something or some group, know something about what they are saying or doing.  If you don’t bother to learn, all you can do in show your ignorance.

I have to agree with Bob about Rachel.  She was the first gay Rhodes Scholar of either gender for a reason.  And she's extremely thorough; if she takes on a topic, she'll run it to ground, and document everything in the process.

[David Horn]

(04-07-2020, 07:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-07-2020, 02:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I have yet to figure what Donald Trump does well that is a legitimate achievement. Oh, he got elected? In a fluke.

Not a fluke.  He was willing to tell a bunch of people what they thought they believed.  The Republican Establishment had long had enough affinity to the elites that the Tea Party did not trust them.  Reagan was in touch with his time, but years of ever more extreme policies enough to keep moving the US further in the same direction was not practical.  They had squeezed all the blood out of the stone, but the base wanted more.  Trump gave it to them.  But while ever smaller government, smaller taxes, and thus the less willingness to solve or even perceive of problems is a direction that sounds better than it is, a direction one can only sustain for a finite time.

Isn't it ironic, that the two advanced nations with the worst records on preparedness (for anything) are Reagan's US and Thatcher's UK.  Letting the greed heads run wild may have produced some small benefit to society, but the cost is proving  unacceptably high.  The anti-taxers created the perfect storm, and COVID-19 is riding that storm, until the storm gets tamed.  Any bets on how much of the Reagan/Thatcher meme will survive?