The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2020, 09:11 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-11-2020, 08:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-11-2020, 08:44 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-10-2020, 07:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... I mean how smart do you have to be to be viewed as the one of the best of the dumb people.

You might ask your wife.

Are you insulting me or my wife or both?

Normally, you don't ask the dumb one.

Well, I asked the dumb one and I'm asking the dumb one again. Were you insulting me or my wife or both? It's a pretty simple question to ask the dumb one.

[pbrower2a]

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:33 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: A shell game in which poor people get displaced. 

I remind you that American suburbs that once had very rural character have lost that. In come the apartment complexes and as a result the traffic jams. Suburban housing that WWII vets bought with VA loans has approached the end of its useful life, as has the infrastructure such as streets and sewers. 

We may be seeing a pattern more characteristic of European cities in which the industry finds its ways into the suburbs and so do the industrial workers while the big city centers become the obvious living area for white-collar workers.

Well, I see the cities becoming/ turning into hubs for all kinds of nasty illegal activity that Americans associate with the third world as the rest of the country recognizes it, votes to do the complete opposite and begins cracking down on all sorts of illegal activity. We are already living in two countries right now.

Your racist slip is showing.

Quote:The borders just haven't been clearly defined and established yet. Dude, I have rural/ working class characteristics like the vast majority of Americans still have today. I'm going to to give you a hint. You need to learn to be more respectful towards others these days and quit coming across as uppity, snide and prude like your parents, sibling?

Quote:My parents are deceased. Don't bother.

Quote:and the folks that you hang out with here. Do you know the difference between the mentality of a coddled  American immigrant who has been promised or granted special protections and the American citizen whose American ancestors, American grand parents, American parents, American siblings have worked or fought (not literally) for everything they have their entire lives. If you don't know, I'd suggest that you start learning the difference because that's what your side (the Democratic side) is dealing with today.  This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

With word salad like that you should fit in well with the Trump campaign.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

[David Horn]

(08-12-2020, 03:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:11 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-11-2020, 08:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-11-2020, 08:44 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-10-2020, 07:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... I mean how smart do you have to be to be viewed as the one of the best of the dumb people.

You might ask your wife.

Are you insulting me or my wife or both?

Normally, you don't ask the dumb one.

Well, I asked the dumb one and I'm asking the dumb one again. Were you insulting me or my wife or both? It's a pretty simple question to ask the dumb one.

Asked and answered.

[Eric the Green]

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

If they nominate Kamala Harris in 2024, say goodbye to the blue agenda.

Democrats shoot themselves in the foot most often by nominating candidates who cannot speak well or connect well with the majority of voters. Too often they only are interested in their agenda, but non-Democratic pols and fans only care about whether they like and can relate to the candidate.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2020, 03:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:33 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: A shell game in which poor people get displaced. 

I remind you that American suburbs that once had very rural character have lost that. In come the apartment complexes and as a result the traffic jams. Suburban housing that WWII vets bought with VA loans has approached the end of its useful life, as has the infrastructure such as streets and sewers. 

We may be seeing a pattern more characteristic of European cities in which the industry finds its ways into the suburbs and so do the industrial workers while the big city centers become the obvious living area for white-collar workers.

Well, I see the cities becoming/ turning into hubs for all kinds of nasty illegal activity that Americans associate with the third world as the rest of the country recognizes it, votes to do the complete opposite and begins cracking down on all sorts of illegal activity. We are already living in two countries right now. The borders just haven't been clearly defined and established yet. Dude, I have rural/ working class characteristics like the vast majority of Americans still have today. I'm going to to give you a hint. You need to learn to be more respectful towards others these days and quit coming across as uppity, snide and prude like your parents, sibling? and the folks that you hang out with here. Do you know the difference between the mentality of a coddled American immigrant who has been promised or granted special protections and the American citizen whose American ancestors, American grand parents, American parents, American siblings have worked or fought (not literally) for everything they have their entire lives. If you don't know, I'd suggest that you start learning the difference because that's what your side (the Democratic side) is dealing with today.  This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and you're the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

It's your red state areas that insist on having all the guns and thus have more violent illegal activity.

There is no difference between new and old immigrants, and you had better start accepting that and stop calling the new immigrants coddled, or you are going to be left out of the new America. I know it's an adjustment for us whities, but you will live in a more globalized society whether you like it or not, and yours and  Trump's racist walls won't stop this.

Dude, we didn't have the violence in our areas like the Democrats had in their areas because the majority of us (whether we be black, white or whatever else these days) are well armed and support the use of force/use or arms/ use of violence against violent people and criminals and place a high value on law enforcement and the rule of law. You must not have read my post about the mob that was approaching one of our local business districts stopping and turning around vs 

Oh, there's a difference between the new and old immigrants, the old immigrants earned their place in America vs having a place given to them  in America these days and that's going to become more and more clear and more and more of a problem for the Democratic party as time goes on. You're not dealing with Trump. YOUR DEALING WITH MORE AMERICAN PEOPLE (people of every race) LIKE ME YOU DUMB SHIT. THIS IS THE END OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

[Eric the Green]

(08-12-2020, 05:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:33 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: A shell game in which poor people get displaced. 

I remind you that American suburbs that once had very rural character have lost that. In come the apartment complexes and as a result the traffic jams. Suburban housing that WWII vets bought with VA loans has approached the end of its useful life, as has the infrastructure such as streets and sewers. 

We may be seeing a pattern more characteristic of European cities in which the industry finds its ways into the suburbs and so do the industrial workers while the big city centers become the obvious living area for white-collar workers.

Well, I see the cities becoming/ turning into hubs for all kinds of nasty illegal activity that Americans associate with the third world as the rest of the country recognizes it, votes to do the complete opposite and begins cracking down on all sorts of illegal activity. We are already living in two countries right now. The borders just haven't been clearly defined and established yet. Dude, I have rural/ working class characteristics like the vast majority of Americans still have today. I'm going to to give you a hint. You need to learn to be more respectful towards others these days and quit coming across as uppity, snide and prude like your parents, sibling? and the folks that you hang out with here. Do you know the difference between the mentality of a coddled American immigrant who has been promised or granted special protections and the American citizen whose American ancestors, American grand parents, American parents, American siblings have worked or fought (not literally) for everything they have their entire lives. If you don't know, I'd suggest that you start learning the difference because that's what your side (the Democratic side) is dealing with today.  This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and you're the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

It's your red state areas that insist on having all the guns and thus have more violent illegal activity.

There is no difference between new and old immigrants, and you had better start accepting that and stop calling the new immigrants coddled, or you are going to be left out of the new America. I know it's an adjustment for us whities, but you will live in a more globalized society whether you like it or not, and yours and  Trump's racist walls won't stop this.

Dude, we didn't have the violence in our areas like the Democrats had in their areas because the majority of us (whether we be black, white or whatever else these days) are well armed and support the use of force/use or arms/ use of violence  against violent people and criminals and place a high value on law enforcement and the rule of law. You must not have read my post about the mob that was approaching one of our local business districts stopping and turning around vs   

Oh, there's a difference between the new and old immigrants, the old immigrants earned their place in America vs having a place given to them in America these days and that's going to become more and more clear and more and more of a problem for the Democratic party as time goes on. You're not dealing with Trump. YOUR DEALING WITH MORE AMERICAN PEOPLE (people of every race) LIKE ME YOU DUMB SHIT. THIS IS THE END OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Your area is still suburban Minnesota, so probably not as gun crazy as some other places. The violence after the Floyd murder in blue cities only lasted a few days and recurred in a few places largely because of more murders or Trump's goons attacking them. But of course you Republicans only mention the looting and stuff that probably was not even committed by the protesters. It serves your political ends to do that, so you do it.

If you think there's a difference between what old and new immigrants do to earn their way in America, then you are either racist, or deliberately blind and ignorant-- again for your own political purposes.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're beginning to show  obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government system that's financially break down as well.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're  beginning to show  obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government  system that's financially break down as well.

I might buy tickets to a foot shooting contest. You are correct, both are pretty good at it. Can you picture them painting concentric circles on their shoes?

For most of the conservative era, the Republicans have been cutting domestic spending. I suspect they have gone well past the point of diminishing returns. I suspect a restoration is more likely than the break down you are suggesting.

[Eric the Green]

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're beginning to show obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government system that's financially breaking down as well.

Breaking down because of your side's reckless military spending without taxation to pay for it, and now because of your feckless leader's failure to control a virus.

Today's young people are less supported in their education than any generation before them, as they drown in student debt and have to pay higher costs and get less support than their parents and grandparents got. And meanwhile racist white parents flee the public schools and don't support them, so that your privatized education system can brainwash them with religious propaganda, and meanwhile non-whites don't get the education which they and everyone are entitled to if we are ever again to have a free society. Restricting education to the privileged few as you propose here will just mean a society whose rights and benefits are restricted to that privileged few. That's why the good American Thomas Jefferson proposed free public education for all and Horace Mann established it. But denying it to people, as you imply above, fits in with your side's goal of an ignorant voting public.

There is almost no welfare anymore, since Gingrich took it away, so the only "social programs" you could possibly be referring to are Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. These are programs which are either paid for by their recipients, with a surplus to spare which is given to your military friends, or programs which help the less fortunate who get sick. But although recovering from sickness is related to our lives, it is only a benefit that we should all have just in case we need it since your capitalist private health care system does not provide it.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2020, 10:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're  beginning to show  obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government  system that's financially break down as well.

I might buy tickets to a foot shooting contest.  You are correct, both are pretty good at it.  Can you picture them painting concentric circles on their shoes?

For most of the conservative era, the Republicans have been cutting domestic spending.  I suspect they have gone well past the point of diminishing returns.  I suspect a restoration is more likely than the break down you are suggesting.

I'm sure some restoration and reconstruction will be needed following the big city wars.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2020, 10:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're beginning to show obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government system that's financially breaking down as well.

Breaking down because of your side's reckless military spending without taxation to pay for it, and now because of your feckless leader's failure to control a virus.

Today's young people are less supported in their education than any generation before them, as they drown in student debt and have to pay higher costs and get less support than their parents and grandparents got. And meanwhile racist white parents flee the public schools and don't support them, so that your privatized education system can brainwash them with religious propaganda, and meanwhile non-whites don't get the education which they and everyone are entitled to if we are ever again to have a free society. Restricting education to the privileged few as you propose here will just mean a society whose rights and benefits are restricted to that privileged few. That's why the good American Thomas Jefferson proposed free public education for all and Horace Mann established it. But denying it to people, as you imply above, fits in with your side's goal of an ignorant voting public.

There is almost no welfare anymore, since Gingrich took it away, so the only "social programs" you could possibly be referring to are Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. These are programs which are either paid for by their recipients, with a surplus to spare which is given to your military friends, or programs which help the less fortunate who get sick. But although recovering from sickness is related to our lives, it is only a benefit that we should all have just in case we need it since your capitalist private health care system does not provide it.

How would you control a new virus in a free country without locking down the entire country for several month? We are talking about a bug that already has proven that it most likely won't kill you. If there are no welfare people than why do we see and talk to so many welfare people today. Dude, you won't find very many communities that don't have them these days. The vast majority are single moms with kids who only work part time jobs.

[pbrower2a]

(08-13-2020, 12:06 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 10:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're beginning to show obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government system that's financially breaking down as well.

Breaking down because of your side's reckless military spending without taxation to pay for it, and now because of your feckless leader's failure to control a virus.

Today's young people are less supported in their education than any generation before them, as they drown in student debt and have to pay higher costs and get less support than their parents and grandparents got. And meanwhile racist white parents flee the public schools and don't support them, so that your privatized education system can brainwash them with religious propaganda, and meanwhile non-whites don't get the education which they and everyone are entitled to if we are ever again to have a free society. Restricting education to the privileged few as you propose here will just mean a society whose rights and benefits are restricted to that privileged few. That's why the good American Thomas Jefferson proposed free public education for all and Horace Mann established it. But denying it to people, as you imply above, fits in with your side's goal of an ignorant voting public.

There is almost no welfare anymore, since Gingrich took it away, so the only "social programs" you could possibly be referring to are Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. These are programs which are either paid for by their recipients, with a surplus to spare which is given to your military friends, or programs which help the less fortunate who get sick. But although recovering from sickness is related to our lives, it is only a benefit that we should all have just in case we need it since your capitalist private health care system does not provide it.

How would you control a new virus in a free country without locking down the entire country for several month? We are talking about a bug that already has proven that it most likely won't kill you. If there are no welfare people than why do we see and talk to so many welfare people today. Dude, you won't find very many communities that don't have them these days. The vast majority are single moms with kids who only work part time jobs.

Maybe one month of a lock-down would have been adequate. 

Oh, it most likely won't kill you? Would you ride with a drunk driver? Would you use street drugs? Would you drive a car at a speed over 100 mph on the open road? Would you take the risk of a rattlesnake bite? If you are going to take inordinate risk, then it had better be for some cause undeniably good such as combat on behalf of your country. 

People on welfare are obliged to seek work and take work available in many places even if the work is odious and a poor fit for the person. 

You are a fool. You think you represent the common man, but you loyally serve people who believe that no human suffering can be in excess so long as it serves those elites. Furthermore you cannot recognize that people as American as you are are fully American.

[Eric the Green]

(08-13-2020, 12:06 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 10:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're beginning to show obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government system that's financially breaking down as well.

Breaking down because of your side's reckless military spending without taxation to pay for it, and now because of your feckless leader's failure to control a virus.

Today's young people are less supported in their education than any generation before them, as they drown in student debt and have to pay higher costs and get less support than their parents and grandparents got. And meanwhile racist white parents flee the public schools and don't support them, so that your privatized education system can brainwash them with religious propaganda, and meanwhile non-whites don't get the education which they and everyone are entitled to if we are ever again to have a free society. Restricting education to the privileged few as you propose here will just mean a society whose rights and benefits are restricted to that privileged few. That's why the good American Thomas Jefferson proposed free public education for all and Horace Mann established it. But denying it to people, as you imply above, fits in with your side's goal of an ignorant voting public.

There is almost no welfare anymore, since Gingrich took it away, so the only "social programs" you could possibly be referring to are Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. These are programs which are either paid for by their recipients, with a surplus to spare which is given to your military friends, or programs which help the less fortunate who get sick. But although recovering from sickness is related to our lives, it is only a benefit that we should all have just in case we need it since your capitalist private health care system does not provide it.

How would you control a new virus in a free country without locking down the entire country for several month? We are talking about a bug that already has proven that it most likely won't kill you. If there are no welfare people than why do we see and talk to so many welfare people today. Dude, you won't find very many communities that don't have them these days. The vast majority are single moms with kids who only work part time jobs.

Single guys are usually not even allowed to get welfare. As if no guy ever loses a job from a tyrannical boss? In a country where many young people can't find work?

The rule is you have to look for work or find it in order to get welfare, and there's a time limit. So I don't know what you are talking about, and I don't trust your observations or assertions. A single Mom already has a job of being a Mom, for which she should really be paid. Getting a part time job is hard these days, let alone both working and raising "kids." But I know that people like you accuse single Moms of sexual carelessness in order to get welfare money. What you get in welfare for a little while "as payment for having another Democrat kid" is not worth the trouble, and is not even enough to live on. Welfare Moms are a pathetic scapegoat for all your resentment against supposed government-dependent Democrats and the low taxes you have to pay for military spending and national debt interest payments.

The Trump virus has already killed 165,000 USA people, and 750,000 people worldwide, with over 55,000 new cases every day and 500-1300 deaths a day and God knows how many injured for life. NO country has done worse than the USA; only Brazil and India can compare. Many free countries have at least reduced the spread of the virus far better than has the pathetic, helpless giant that is the Trump USA.

Quote:I'm sure some restoration and reconstruction will be needed following the big city wars.

What big city wars?

I admit I admire you a little bit for sticking out this debate by yourself against four or five liberals. There are other conservatives hanging around here, but they aren't helping you much. Without you, who would we have to pick a fight with, and have so much fun easily refuting you? It's like shooting dead ducks in a pond. You are a good backdrop against which to make our liberal statements, and to see how good they look compared to what you put out. Oh well dude, carry on. We couldn't do it without ya

[pbrower2a]

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're  beginning to show  obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government  system that's financially break (sic) down as well.

The Republican Party lost the House because it abandoned old conservative virtues in favor of an incipient fascism that repudiates conservatism and liberalism, both derivatives of humanistic values (Alle Menschen werden Brueder) in favor of raging resentments toward the wrong elite. People who see others as mere tools as expendable as packaging materials are the true enemy of us all. They want people enduring hardships to see as enemies the schoolteacher who corrects their kids' grammar and the school administrator who tells a parent that spanking a kid for trying to get attention from drunken parents is terribly wrong instead of the tycoon and landlord who gouge and the executive paid astronomically for treating workers abysmally. 

Conservatives are right to defend free markets, but when they defend class privilege in an order with severe inequality that degrades human life, they enter the realm of indefensible absurdity. The Democrats at least stand for means (including high-quality education) that allow many to escape poverty.  Republicans want people competing for a shrinking number of jobs in sweatshops while their tax policies favor monopolistic, vertically-integrated behemoths more capable of concentrating wealth and economic power while discarding workers.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-12-2020, 10:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're beginning to show obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government system that's financially breaking down as well.

Breaking down because of your side's reckless military spending without taxation to pay for it, and now because of your feckless leader's failure to control a virus.

Today's young people are less supported in their education than any generation before them, as they drown in student debt and have to pay higher costs and get less support than their parents and grandparents got. And meanwhile racist white parents flee the public schools and don't support them, so that your privatized education system can brainwash them with religious propaganda, and meanwhile non-whites don't get the education which they and everyone are entitled to if we are ever again to have a free society. Restricting education to the privileged few as you propose here will just mean a society whose rights and benefits are restricted to that privileged few. That's why the good American Thomas Jefferson proposed free public education for all and Horace Mann established it. But denying it to people, as you imply above, fits in with your side's goal of an ignorant voting public.

There is almost no welfare anymore, since Gingrich took it away, so the only "social programs" you could possibly be referring to are Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. These are programs which are either paid for by their recipients, with a surplus to spare which is given to your military friends, or programs which help the less fortunate who get sick. But although recovering from sickness is related to our lives, it is only a benefit that we should all have just in case we need it since your capitalist private health care system does not provide it.

They're breaking down because they're run by a bunch of incompetent, corrupt and clueless Liberal's who love themselves more than anyone else. You should know that, you're just like them. Look at you, you're calling smart people who can see the writing on the wall who are taking responsibility of educating their children into their own hands and removing from a public school system run by a bunch of Liberal Woke's and placing them into a private school that teaches/reinforces their values. Dude, there's plenty of welfare recipients around and plenty of social programs available for them to use these days. I see way more of them today than I saw during the 1980's. I'll give you a hint, the majority of them are single women with kids. I give you another hint, the possibility of them moving up in up in life is pretty much none. Once again, I'd rather have values than no values. You have no values which means you are expendable and represent nothing of value to me. Dude, what happened the last time the New America started a war with America? Also. where does America prefer to fight it's wars?

[Classic-Xer]

(08-13-2020, 05:41 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: What big city wars?

I admit I admire you a little bit for sticking out this debate by yourself against four or five liberals. There are other conservatives hanging around here, but they aren't helping you much. Without you, who would we have to pick a fight with, and have so much fun easily refuting you? It's like shooting dead ducks in a pond. You are a good backdrop against which to make our liberal statements, and to see how good they look compared to what you put out. Oh well dude, carry on. We couldn't do it without ya

The big city wars that we are watching/ seeing right now that are going to get worse as time goes on. I wouldn't call what we've been doing debating but whatever. Dude, I've already soundly defeated a much larger group of Liberal's and I applauded as a forum owner finally decided to pull the plug and close its doors. The conservatives that know me, already know that I'm able to take on more than just four or five Liberals. The ones who don't know me as well can see that I'm able to take on four or five Liberal's without needing further assistance.

You can refute me and even claim that you guys are winning or won and even pat each other on the backs and tell each other good job and even insult me and agree with each others insults of me and so forth. If I was you, I wouldn't be proud of the fact that you need each others assistance and require a team effort vs me. I recently acknowledged and praised Mickey's superior writing skills. I've done the same with Kinser. Like you, I still consider you as a valuable tool as well.

[Eric the Green]

(08-13-2020, 11:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-13-2020, 05:41 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: What big city wars?

I admit I admire you a little bit for sticking out this debate by yourself against four or five liberals. There are other conservatives hanging around here, but they aren't helping you much. Without you, who would we have to pick a fight with, and have so much fun easily refuting you? It's like shooting dead ducks in a pond. You are a good backdrop against which to make our liberal statements, and to see how good they look compared to what you put out. Oh well dude, carry on. We couldn't do it without ya

The big city wars that we are watching/ seeing right now that are going to get worse as time goes on.

There are no "big city wars" right now. That's just a campaign slogan you are trumpeting for trump.

Quote:I wouldn't call what we've been doing debating but whatever. Dude, I've already soundly defeated a much larger group of Liberal's and I applauded as a forum owner finally decided to pull the plug and close its doors. The conservatives that know me, already know that I'm able to take on more than just four or five Liberals. The ones who don't know me as well can see that I'm able to take on four or five Liberal's without needing further assistance.....

You don't seem to be holding your own too well. But whatever you say.

[Eric the Green]

(08-13-2020, 10:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 10:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:49 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-12-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: This election is going to symbolize a parting of ways and result in a massive parting of ways between values and no values. This is going to boil down to America's choice or the Liberal's choice and your the poor person with the mental handicap who doesn't understand that or realize it which I do feel sorry about but know that I can't do anything about at this point.

First, just because you refuse to recognize or acknowledge the blue values doesn't mean they don't exist.  I don't know how many times I have to repeat democracy, equality and human rights before it sinks into your thick skull.

Also, Trump has given the blues a large gift.  He stands opposite so many American values that there is a big swing blue vote for at least one election.  The Tea Party essentially guaranteed no establishment candidate was going to win the various primaries in 2016.  The anti establishment Tea Party voters latched onto Trump, and decided to believe his promises.  As a result you get at least one election where in order to preserve the traditional US values you have to go blue.

I know you are ideologically blind enough not to see the obvious, but you may have to after November 3rd.

One question is will it last longer than one election.  If Trump and the elitist and racist elements of the Republican Party have declared themselves, can the Republican base find someone else in a relatively short time.  I kind of doubt it.  That assumed the Democrats won't shoot themselves in the foot.  Given their history, that is quite an assumption.  Recently, only Palin and Trump have been able to collect the support of the Tea Party base.  Trump has forced the Republican Establishment to bind themselves to him or he would sic the by now Trump base on them.  It may be a real enough threat to take them all down.

I am left with two questions.  I think the Republican Voters Against Trump,  Lincoln Project,  VoteVets have left room enough for a respectable conservative movement to reemerge.  On the other hand, the Tea Party that latched onto Palin and Trump could latch onto someone else.  That is a conservative battle.  I will be rooting for the respectable conservatives, but the old Trump base could remain potent and lock itself onto some clown.

And the other question is whether the blue agenda will work satisfactorily enough to last beyond the one election.  Sure, they can undo a lot of what Trump has done, reestablish the Constitution, make a dent in racism, and fight COVID effectively, but can they push the rest of the blue agenda without losing a good part of their one time voters.  

When Nixon resigned and Ford pardoned him you would think the Democrats would be sitting pretty.  Instead, we shortly after got Reagan.  The Democrats are capable of shooting themselves in the foot.  We will see how they do.

The Republicans and Democrats are both capable of shooting themselves in the foot. The Republican party lost the House because they shot themselves in the foot and failed to deliver on lowering healthcare costs for a portion of its base. The Democratic party has the luxury of being able to shoot itself and remain in office because it has a base that is reliant on it to provide them all kinds of stuff associated with education and social programs directly related to their lives. Fortunately, the bulk of it is related to the areas that we are watching as they're beginning to show obvious signs of a major social breakdown and obvious signs of a government system that's financially breaking down as well.

Breaking down because of your side's reckless military spending without taxation to pay for it, and now because of your feckless leader's failure to control a virus.

Today's young people are less supported in their education than any generation before them, as they drown in student debt and have to pay higher costs and get less support than their parents and grandparents got. And meanwhile racist white parents flee the public schools and don't support them, so that your privatized education system can brainwash them with religious propaganda, and meanwhile non-whites don't get the education which they and everyone are entitled to if we are ever again to have a free society. Restricting education to the privileged few as you propose here will just mean a society whose rights and benefits are restricted to that privileged few. That's why the good American Thomas Jefferson proposed free public education for all and Horace Mann established it. But denying it to people, as you imply above, fits in with your side's goal of an ignorant voting public.

There is almost no welfare anymore, since Gingrich took it away, so the only "social programs" you could possibly be referring to are Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. These are programs which are either paid for by their recipients, with a surplus to spare which is given to your military friends, or programs which help the less fortunate who get sick. But although recovering from sickness is related to our lives, it is only a benefit that we should all have just in case we need it since your capitalist private health care system does not provide it.

They're breaking down because they're run by a bunch of incompetent, corrupt and clueless Liberal's who love themselves more than anyone else. You should know that, you're just like them. Look at you, you're calling smart people who can see the writing on the wall who are taking responsibility of educating their children into their own hands and removing from a public school system run by a bunch of Liberal Woke's and placing them into a private school that teaches/reinforces their values. Dude, there's plenty of welfare recipients around and plenty of social programs available for them to use these days.  I see way more of them today than I saw during the 1980's. I'll give you a hint, the majority of them are single women with kids. I give you another hint, the possibility of them moving up in up in life is pretty much none. Once again, I'd rather have values than no values. You have no values which means you are expendable and represent nothing of value to me. Dude, what happened the last time the New America started a war with America? Also. where does America prefer to fight it's wars?

The government that is breaking down now is being run by your guy, or haven't you noticed?

I thought I already refuted these statements. On another thread maybe? Or above?

Your observations don't convince us. What you see is not what is. It's only what you claim to see. We have almost no welfare today. Scapegoating single Moms who are working hard to raise their kids and work for a living because they get a little government help for a little while does not wash too well. It's a rather pathetic scapegoat indeed to blame for your resentment over paying reasonable taxes that mostly go to the military and paying the interest on the national debt that your side caused.

Trump has no values or principles at all, and your side following and depending on his showmanship for your political power over us shows no values at all on your part. As for "what happened the last time the New America started a war with America?" that was called the civil war, and your side lost pretty badly. And you still want to celebrate and laud the fallen heroes of this lost and ignoble cause.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-14-2020, 03:51 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: The government that is breaking down now is being run by your guy, or haven't you noticed?

Don't confuse the poor guy with facts.  You are ruining some perfectly good fantasies!

(08-14-2020, 03:51 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I thought I already refuted these statements. On another thread maybe? Or above?

That seem par for the course.  We seem to be repeating ourselves on both sides quite a bit.  Like, I got tired of saying what the Founding Fathers believed about the Second Amendment, and written quite clearly into the law.  There are certain things that an extremest of either flavor refuses to hear.

(08-14-2020, 03:51 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump has no values or principles at all, and your side following and depending on his showmanship for your political power over us shows no values at all on your part. As for "what happened the last time the New America started a war with America?" that was called the civil war, and your side lost pretty badly. And you still want to celebrate and laud the fallen heroes of this lost and ignoble cause.

I wouldn't say no values or principles.  'Get more wealth and power' counts, even if they seem so out of step as not to be counted as values or principles by some.  It is sort of like when Classic claims liberals have no values.  If your values are so much in conflict with the other guy, he might not recognize the values as values at all.

I think you could call the (expletive deleted) poor values, though.