The Partisan Divide on Issues

[David Horn]

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

FYI, you are implying sedition, and that's a Federal crime. You might be wise to state unequivocally that sedition is not your intent. Seriously.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

Well, yes, the armed conservatives are waiting.  This is another way of saying they are doing nothing.  With your obsession with violence you can daydream of their doing something, but there is no indication that they will.  That is why I anticipate a typical 4T culture change, a typical Information Age use of protest, non violence and legislation.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-17-2020, 01:42 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

FYI, you are implying sedition, and that's a Federal crime.  You might be wise to state unequivocally that sedition is not your intent. Seriously.

No I'm not, you're the one implying sedition. We are the Americans reserving our right to bear arms and defend our county and the American people who recognize and share our values. I'd suggest that you open up your ears and that so called Liberal mind our yours and listen to Bobs interpretation of the Second Amendment and allow it to sink in and learn to accept it as being the law of the land these days.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-17-2020, 03:19 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

Well, yes, the armed conservatives are waiting.  This is another way of saying they are doing nothing.  With your obsession with violence you can daydream of their doing something, but there is no indication that they will.  That is why I anticipate a typical 4T culture change, a typical Information Age use of protest, non violence and legislation.

Oh, if the Liberal mobs stray to far from their pens or safe zones there will be hell to pay and a bunch of government related liberal Democrats will find themselves unemployed and looking for easy jobs that won't exist or won't be available for them in our areas. If you knew me, you'd know that I'm not a bluffer.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-17-2020, 04:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 01:42 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

FYI, you are implying sedition, and that's a Federal crime.  You might be wise to state unequivocally that sedition is not your intent. Seriously.

No I'm not, you're the one implying sedition. We are the Americans reserving our right to bear arms and defend our county and the American people who recognize and share our values. I'd suggest that you open up your ears and that so called Liberal mind our yours and listen to Bobs interpretation of the Second Amendment and allow it to sink in and learn to accept it as being the law of the land these days.

I do not doubt your right to bear arms, or your right to defend the laws, your family, friends and property. There was little to no police or standing army in the founding father’s time. They set up a system by which he people were expected to protect themselves in a time when natives were in the woods and enemy ships off the coast.

It is not surprising that some think that system is obsolete. Perhaps there are really some weapons that the average civilian should not own. Nukes have more power than muskets, but the Constitution is the Constitution. You have to pretend that it is wise.

Defend your values? Some people have fairly weird worldview and values. Some of them are incompatible with the law. You would have to use the Shogun defense. The only excuse for rebelling against your lawful superior is to win.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-17-2020, 04:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Oh, if the Liberal mobs stray to far from their pens or safe zones there will be hell to pay and a bunch of government related liberal Democrats will find themselves unemployed and looking for easy jobs that won't exist or won't be available for them in our areas. If you knew me, you'd know that I'm not a bluffer.

Nice bluff.

[Eric the Green]

(08-17-2020, 04:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 01:42 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

FYI, you are implying sedition, and that's a Federal crime.  You might be wise to state unequivocally that sedition is not your intent. Seriously.

No I'm not, you're the one implying sedition. We are the Americans reserving our right to bear arms and defend our county and the American people who recognize and share our values. I'd suggest that you open up your ears and that so called Liberal mind our yours and listen to Bobs interpretation of the Second Amendment and allow it to sink in and learn to accept it as being the law of the land these days.

That is the only "American value" that you uphold, and it is the most outdated. It has not the slightest relationship to our freedom. The Second Amendment should be repealed. Then we might have some sensible gun regulation. Some will still be able to keep some of their guns. But, it won't happen in our time. Meanwhile, we should remember that millions of young people came out to support the kids in Parkland FL whose friends were murdered by your gun values. Some regulations can be passed soon, and probably will be under Democratic rule, if it happens. No doubt your side will be "up in arms" about it. It will be your side that initiates conflict under Joe Biden, and your side that gets crushed under him. Under Tom Cotton after 2024, your side will be able to crush our secessions. It will be your side that decides whether to let us go. Then we'll have our civil war, or not; it appears.

But just like some observers of the generations and turnings cycle say that the civil war saeculum lasted until at least 1868, so the Left will likely come back again in 2028 and take charge again under a true leader. It will seem like an extended 4T. Neptune will still be in warlike and activist Aries, as it was then. Mikebert and I may still be discussing whether the 4T has ended, and many of us will contribute to that new thread. Somehow if the rump trump USA becomes sane again, it will be reunited with the blue tides. These dangerous times are not so far ahead. Already this forum has lasted for 23 years. It seems like yesterday to me.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-17-2020, 11:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: That is the only "American value" that you uphold, and it is the most outdated. It has not the slightest relationship to our freedom. The Second Amendment should be repealed. Then we might have some sensible gun regulation. Some will still be able to keep some of their guns. But, it won't happen in our time. Meanwhile, we should remember that millions of young people came out to support the kids in Parkland FL whose friends were murdered by your gun values. Some regulations can be passed soon, and probably will be under Democratic rule, if it happens. No doubt your side will be "up in arms" about it. It will be your side that initiates conflict under Joe Biden, and your side that gets crushed under him. Under Tom Cotton after 2024, your side will be able to crush our secessions. It will be your side that decides whether to let us go. Then we'll have our civil war, or not; it appears.

But just like some observers of the generations and turnings cycle say that the civil war saeculum lasted until at least 1868, so the Left will likely come back again in 2028 and take charge again under a true leader. It will seem like an extended 4T. Neptune will still be in warlike and activist Aries, as it was then. Mikebert and I may still be discussing whether the 4T has ended, and many of us will contribute to that new thread. Somehow if the rump trump USA becomes sane again, it will be reunited with the blue tides. These dangerous times are not so far ahead. Already this forum has lasted for 23 years. It seems like yesterday to me.

As I've told you many times, I value all of our Constitutional rights (yours included). As far as the Second Amendment and our staunch defense of it, it's the one that the Left has been trying to remove/eliminate/take away from Americans for many years. I would be interested to see if Biden or Harris took/take their Constitutional oaths seriously or not and attempt to break a social contract that has withstood the tests of time and has remained in place for 244 years. Dude, I think your crazy/nuts to place your rights in the hands of a government that you gave the power to remove as it pleases myself. It sounds silly myself but most of what you say and want to see happen sounds silly.

I have to say, I have been watching the Democrats mainly talking to heir own supporters this evening. I must say, if I was a Progressive/Democrat, I would be depressed after watching and listening to them and preparing to jump off a bridge or revolt if Trump wins.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-17-2020, 05:10 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 04:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Oh, if the Liberal mobs stray to far from their pens or safe zones there will be hell to pay and a bunch of government related liberal Democrats will find themselves unemployed and looking for easy jobs that won't exist or won't be available for them in our areas. If you knew me, you'd know that I'm not a bluffer.

Nice bluff.

Dude, I don't bluff. Bluffing does no good when your called on it. You're old enough to know better.

[pbrower2a]

(08-18-2020, 01:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 11:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: That is the only "American value" that you uphold, and it is the most outdated. It has not the slightest relationship to our freedom. The Second Amendment should be repealed. Then we might have some sensible gun regulation. Some will still be able to keep some of their guns. But, it won't happen in our time. Meanwhile, we should remember that millions of young people came out to support the kids in Parkland FL whose friends were murdered by your gun values. Some regulations can be passed soon, and probably will be under Democratic rule, if it happens. No doubt your side will be "up in arms" about it. It will be your side that initiates conflict under Joe Biden, and your side that gets crushed under him. Under Tom Cotton after 2024, your side will be able to crush our secessions. It will be your side that decides whether to let us go. Then we'll have our civil war, or not; it appears.

But just like some observers of the generations and turnings cycle say that the civil war saeculum lasted until at least 1868, so the Left will likely come back again in 2028 and take charge again under a true leader. It will seem like an extended 4T. Neptune will still be in warlike and activist Aries, as it was then. Mikebert and I may still be discussing whether the 4T has ended, and many of us will contribute to that new thread. Somehow if the rump trump USA becomes sane again, it will be reunited with the blue tides. These dangerous times are not so far ahead. Already this forum has lasted for 23 years. It seems like yesterday to me.

As I've told you many times, I value all of our Constitutional rights (yours included). As far as the Second Amendment and our staunch defense of it, it's the one that the Left has been trying to remove/eliminate/take away from Americans for many years. I would be interested to see if Biden or Harris took/take their Constitutional oaths seriously or not and attempt to break a social contract that has withstood the tests of time and has remained in place for 244 years. Dude, I think your crazy/nuts to place your rights in the hands of a government that you gave the power to remove as it pleases myself. It sounds silly myself but most of what you say and want to see happen sounds silly.

I have to say, I have been watching the Democrats mainly talking to heir own supporters this evening. I must say, if I was a Progressive/Democrat, I would be depressed after watching and listening to them and preparing to jump off a bridge or revolt if Trump wins.

Privately-owned firearms are not quite as solid a defense of human rights as you claim. Thatcher's UK had no gun rights, and looks like a conservative paradise. The Soviet Union supposedly had gun control, but it was easy to get firearms if one was on good terms with the Communist Party. The Third Reich was awash in privately-held firearms, as every Nazi in good standing was expected to have one. 

Gee, those firearms in Nazi Germany certainly protected the Satan-granted right to be a Nazi after the British, French, and Americans took over their sectors of Germany and Austria,  didn't they?

Far more important is freedom of speech, the media, and of religious practice, the absence of which leaves abundantly cleared what Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and China are. Far more important is a judicial system that allows an objective weighing of evidence and precludes confessions wriong out in torture. 

I would reduce gun rights to hunting weapons only for people not in the police or military, except for exemptions for people who live in the presence of dangerous wild animals such as bears, cougars, and moose.

[David Horn]

(08-17-2020, 03:19 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

Well, yes, the armed conservatives are waiting.  This is another way of saying they are doing nothing.  With your obsession with violence you can daydream of their doing something, but there is no indication that they will.  That is why I anticipate a typical 4T culture change, a typical Information Age use of protest, non violence and legislation.

Some very smart and experienced contingency planners aren't quite so sanguine. They see the potential for violence as rather high.  Worse, they see it as an excuse for Trump to roll out the troops.

[David Horn]

(08-17-2020, 04:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 01:42 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 12:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes. There are millions of so called vigilantes like me that you don't see who are idle at the moment and waiting to see how this election plays out. I hope you are right Bob. I hope there are enough traditional minded Democrats left to keep the Democratic party in line with our values or I suggest that you prepare yourself for one the most violent clashes between two countries that the world has ever seen so far  We don't live in China or some weak/lawless country that was associated with the former Soviet Union or some third world country. One other thing, there are more Democrats using democracy to get whatever it is that they want or feel they need or to change laws to eliminate threats and whatever else. All I can do is say that I'm sorry to you in advance.

FYI, you are implying sedition, and that's a Federal crime.  You might be wise to state unequivocally that sedition is not your intent. Seriously.

No I'm not, you're the one implying sedition. We are the Americans reserving our right to bear arms and defend our county and the American people who recognize and share our values. I'd suggest that you open up your ears and that so called Liberal mind our yours and listen to Bobs interpretation of the Second Amendment and allow it to sink in and learn to accept it as being the law of the land these days.

And how do you plan to bear arms and defend "your country" if not by opposing some other armed entity?  Who are you taking on: the water bottle throwers? Are guns necessary for that.  Are they even sensible ... or are you thinking bigger?

[David Horn]

(08-18-2020, 01:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I've told you many times, I value all of our Constitutional rights (yours included). As far as the Second Amendment and our staunch defense of it, it's the one that the Left has been trying to remove/eliminate/take away from Americans for many years. I would be interested to see if Biden or Harris took/take their Constitutional oaths seriously or not and attempt to break a social contract that has withstood the tests of time and has remained in place for 244 years. Dude, I think your crazy/nuts to place your rights in the hands of a government that you gave the power to remove as it pleases myself. It sounds silly myself but most of what you say and want to see happen sounds silly.

We've had a gun pandemic in this country for a long time and it's getting worse. Take Chicago as a perfect example. Guns flow into south Chicago from Indiana with no restrictions. Straw purchases are never policed in that state, and gun shows are wide open. Then folks like you actually have the nerve to bitch about violent crime in big cities. Of course there is, when jobs are scarce and guns are as common as fleas on an untreated dog. Will that be allowed forever? I doubt i. And when the change happens, it will be dramatic and swift -- because folks like you have made less draconian options impossible.

Classic-Xer Wrote:I have to say, I have been watching the Democrats mainly talking to heir own supporters this evening. I must say, if I was a Progressive/Democrat, I would be depressed after watching and listening to them and preparing to jump off a bridge or revolt if Trump wins.

So, how will you deal with the alternative? Either option is fully possible.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-18-2020, 11:20 AM)David Horn Wrote: Some very smart and experienced contingency planners aren't quite so sanguine. They see the potential for violence as rather high.  Worse, they see it as an excuse for Trump to roll out the troops.

I know the Boogaloo Bois and their ilk will try to go violent.  Black Lives Matter has taken some steps to isolate themselves from the violence.  For example, in Portland their protests are in locations far from the federal courthouse favored when the secret police were defending it, or the police union building which has drawn the violence since.  They are trying to force the violent actors to act with less cover.

If Trump resumes his 'law and order' aspect to his campaign and his secret police go active again, having plans ready for stopping the violence and making Trump look bad are necessary.  Sure.  Plan for the worse.  I expect making Trump look bad had more effect on his withdrawal of the secret police than the results of the violence.

But the neighborhood vigilantes which Classic claims membership with and the rural militias are not yet engaged.  Plan quietly, sure.  Let rumors spread might be less wise.  They might actually do as suggested.

[Eric the Green]

(08-18-2020, 01:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 11:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: That is the only "American value" that you uphold, and it is the most outdated. It has not the slightest relationship to our freedom. The Second Amendment should be repealed. Then we might have some sensible gun regulation. Some will still be able to keep some of their guns. But, it won't happen in our time. Meanwhile, we should remember that millions of young people came out to support the kids in Parkland FL whose friends were murdered by your gun values. Some regulations can be passed soon, and probably will be under Democratic rule, if it happens. No doubt your side will be "up in arms" about it. It will be your side that initiates conflict under Joe Biden, and your side that gets crushed under him. Under Tom Cotton after 2024, your side will be able to crush our secessions. It will be your side that decides whether to let us go. Then we'll have our civil war, or not; it appears.

But just like some observers of the generations and turnings cycle say that the civil war saeculum lasted until at least 1868, so the Left will likely come back again in 2028 and take charge again under a true leader. It will seem like an extended 4T. Neptune will still be in warlike and activist Aries, as it was then. Mikebert and I may still be discussing whether the 4T has ended, and many of us will contribute to that new thread. Somehow if the rump trump USA becomes sane again, it will be reunited with the blue tides. These dangerous times are not so far ahead. Already this forum has lasted for 23 years. It seems like yesterday to me.

As I've told you many times, I value all of our Constitutional rights (yours included). As far as the Second Amendment and our staunch defense of it, it's the one that the Left has been trying to remove/eliminate/take away from Americans for many years. I would be interested to see if Biden or Harris took/take their Constitutional oaths seriously or not and attempt to break a social contract that has withstood the tests of time and has remained in place for 244 years. Dude, I think your crazy/nuts to place your rights in the hands of a government that you gave the power to remove as it pleases myself. It sounds silly myself but most of what you say and want to see happen sounds silly.

I have to say, I have been watching the Democrats mainly talking to heir own supporters this evening. I must say, if I was a Progressive/Democrat, I would be depressed after watching and listening to them and preparing to jump off a bridge or revolt if Trump wins.

It seems to me that you value cop oppression of unarmed black people more than you do our right to walk down the street without getting killed for being "suspicious," according to how you come down on what you are upset about, and your support for a fake president who wants to take away our right to vote. It seems to me you value guns as the most basic right, and perhaps the only one, because you don't trust anyone but yourself to defend yourself, or because you plan to take part in a militia that, perhaps provoked by something, will want to impose a cult leader on us as dictator for life. 

Dude, the second amendment was outdated practically from the time it was put on paper. It remains only because it appeals to macho symbolism and because of the power of the rural and southern states in our constitution. I don't care about gun rights. But those who believe in them should be willing to accept regulations on their use and possession, or would you have there be no regulations on driving either? And no libel laws? Or perhaps you want "freedom" for a religion whose leaders molest children? I know your side wants "freedom" for religions to discriminate against gays.

If Trump wins, it will indeed be a time to consider jumping off some bridges, or at least burn a few bridges behind us and revolt in some way. That's how serious it is that folks like yourself have been swept up in this cult and can't see the threat that Crump poses to our republic and all of our lives.

And is there nothing sacred? Trump wants to put himself up on Mt. Rushmore too!

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-18-2020, 02:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Dude, the second amendment was outdated practically from the time it was put on paper. It remains only because it appeals to macho symbolism and because of the power of the rural and southern states in our constitution. I don't care about gun rights. But those who believe in them should be willing to accept regulations on their use and possession, or would you have there be no regulations on driving either? And no libel laws? Or perhaps you want "freedom" for a religion whose leaders molest children? I know your side wants "freedom" for religions to discriminate against gays.

If Trump wins, it will indeed be a time to consider jumping off some bridges, or at least burn a few bridges behind us and revolt in some way. That's how serious it is that folks like yourself have been swept up in this cult and can't see the threat that Crump poses to our republic and all of our lives.

And is there nothing sacred? Trump wants to put himself up on Mt. Rushmore too!

Several points.

The wording of the Second states the right shall not be infringed.  This forbids regulation.  Any attempt to infringe the Second would bounce out of any textual court that pays attention to what is written.

Driving is not a protected Constitutional right.  There is nothing in the constitution which limits the sovereign states from regulating driving.  Yes, the US is based on a bunch of sovereign states which cede specific powers to a federal government which is not sovereign. Thus, you commonly see state police policing federal interstates.

Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr put in a place a doctrine that a right does not grant the ability to harm another or infringe on another’s rights.  This principle is applied to having both free speech and libel laws.  You are granted a right to speak freely, but to be responsible while doing so not to harm others.  The ability to own or carry a weapon has been ruled by the courts to not infringe on another’s rights.  Actually using the weapon to commit crimes like theft, assault or murder would harm others.

This also applies to a freedom of religion to harm children.  A right does not grant an ability to harm or restrict the rights of another.  Thus, you do not have a right to harm children.  

Somehow, you do have a limited right to discriminate against gays.  If you are running a church or a private club, granting membership according to a sexual or racial prejudice is allowed.  One recent example was the country club that hosts The Masters golf tournament.  It is legal to ban female members, as they did for a long time.  If the people and the PGA make enough noise, it may not be prudent, but it is legal.  Solution?  Invite a woman who lives far away and doesn’t play golf to become a member.

If you are providing goods or services to the public, though, you are not acting as a church or private club.  Then you can get into trouble for discrimination.

And as Mt. Rushmore is a federal monument, Trump might be able to issue orders to modify it.  Then again, it costs money which the congress would have to approve.  I’m not worried about it.  Nothing is apt to get done now before the election and there are other things more important to worry about.

This post is an example of how blue people try to void the law in argument without knowing the law.  They make arguments which are frankly silly once you dig into things some.  Generally, you don’t force me again and again to say what the law actually is.  Still, occasionally you insist on repeating your badly flawed arguments.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-18-2020, 01:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I have to say, I have been watching the Democrats mainly talking to heir own supporters this evening.

I am inclined to think that most regular posters at this site have already covered the same ground as the DNC, and has already committed to how they are going to vote.  Most are deeply partisan.  The loosers at both at this site and the conventions will have some big time readjusting to do.

I disagree that the Democrats are presenting only one perspective.  They are hitting Trump from all sorts of angles, but as you tune that out you don't notice it.  It almost makes one wonder if you are watching at all.  Your ideological filter sort of tunes out everything that doesn't match your worldview and values.  That doesn't leave much getting through.

[David Horn]

(08-18-2020, 02:39 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But the neighborhood vigilantes which Classic claims membership with and the rural militias are not yet engaged.  Plan quietly, sure.  Let rumors spread might be less wise.  They might actually do as suggested.

Some of the idiots at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville conceive of themselves as members of citizen militias. Some are local to me. In fact, entire groups of them showed up in our state capital to defend the statues on Monument Row, looking a lot like small arms infantry. Don't discount these guys as Cosplay (some are, but only some). When they show up, they are armed, locked and only need to chamber a round to start the festivities.

It only takes one idiot to start things.

[David Horn]

(08-18-2020, 05:08 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The wording of the Second states the right shall not be infringed.  This forbids regulation.  Any attempt to infringe the Second would bounce out of any textual court that pays attention to what is written...

As recently as the court under Chief Justice Burger, no one bought into the willful blindness to the explanatory clause about well regulated militias, stood as the defining element of the 2nd. At some point, that will be addressed again, or the 2nd will become toast by some other means. As currently defined, it's the enabling element in the Constitutional suicide pact several Justices (Brandies and Jackson to name two) have noted in the past ... the one that's not acceptable under any circumstances.

[Bob Butler 54]

It seems CNN has many states filing suits to stop Trump from slowing the mail.  The USPS is backing down, saying they will continue service until the election.  We will see how it goes.