The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-18-2021, 01:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 05:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, it won't be much longer and the Democratic party could elect Gumby.

Who is Gumby? And what's his birthday?

You should look into Gumby.  He has the green vote locked up.  

[David Horn]

(02-18-2021, 10:26 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: David

I was chatting lately with the meals on wheels guy, who recommended that I say inside for a while.  It was going to be cold.

"Not as cold as Texas," I responded.

That set him off.  He remembered and incident decades back when the tanker ships were hanging off the coast waiting for the oil price to go up, creating an artificial fuel shortage.  In response, a few Texans had a bumper sticker made up.  "Drive Ninety.  Freeze a Yankee."

I guess the Meals on Wheels guy shares your attitude about spiteful neighbors.

For me, it's the self-inflicted-wound issue that rankles most.  Add arrogance to ignorance, and viola: Texas!

[Eric the Green]

(02-18-2021, 02:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-18-2021, 01:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 05:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, it won't be much longer and the Democratic party could elect Gumby.

Who is Gumby? And what's his birthday?

You should look into Gumby.  He has the green vote locked up.  

I guess he's a 20th century guy. He could probably get the nomination over Kamala Harris. I don't know if he could beat Donald Trump, Tom Cotton, Marjorie Taylor Greene, et al, but I'm sure he would make a better president than any Republican.

I guess I could do a horoscope score for his creator, Art Clokey. I don't have a birth date for Gumby yet from wikipedia. So Art's birthday would have to do, although he himself only lives on the Other Side or in his next incarnation.

Gumby's first film was made in 1953, but was released on Sept.2, 1955, so maybe that's a birthdate I could score.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbasia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumby

[pbrower2a]

(02-17-2021, 04:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 02:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 03:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I wonder how many white supremacists like Classic Xer understand the supreme achievements that some whites like Bach have made.

Not to mention the achievements of some blacks like the Supremes and the Motown Sound.

I wonder how many white supremacists have more in common with racists like you and Pelosi these days.

How bot-like of you!

What? You're a racist too. So, when did the Democratic switch from race not mattering to race mattering to everyone and everything and mattering more than anything else? I know some people make lots of money off third world politics these days. I mean, look at the Obama's, Biden's and Clinton's. Who would have ever thought that public service and political careers associated with the Democratic party could end up being so lucrative these days.

What have I said that indicates that I am a racist? Character is everything, and race is among the most superficial aspects of human existence, relevant only for genetic matches for medicines and transplants. On other matters, race is a construct that does more to befuddle us than to inform us. Unless you are discussing genetics and its consequences or the consequences of racism in economics and sociology you have no standing in discussing race.

I have plenty of bad things to say about white people of suspect character... but that is not anti-white racism. What 'racial' category do you think I am in?

You are the one who used an extremely misogynic word about the Speaker of the House. I'm not repeating a word more likely to be used in pornography or in vile curses. You have shown your gross contempt for a high-achieving woman. Women are capable of achieving anything that men can do except in some athletic activities.

[Classic-Xer]

(02-18-2021, 02:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-18-2021, 01:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 05:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, it won't be much longer and the Democratic party could elect Gumby.

Who is Gumby? And what's his birthday?

You should look into Gumby.  He has the green vote locked up.  

I figured every American your age would remember Gumby. As you sure you guys are still Americans?

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-19-2021, 02:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-18-2021, 02:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: You should look into Gumby.  He has the green vote locked up.  

I figured every American your age would remember Gumby. As you sure you guys are still Americans?

People living in the US have a lot of culture to recall.  I wouldn’t have guessed Gumby was not important to Eric, but there are much more pertinent aspects of the culture to remember.

You have redefined ‘American’ to exclude the progressive / roundhead / blue culture, which I would rate as a much more pertinent part of the US than Gumby.  Who are you to talk?

[pbrower2a]

(02-17-2021, 03:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 01:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 06:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: How many years have you been trying to pin your failures and all your issues with racism and poverty and all the problems with your minority populations on us? So, what do you think is going to happen to a race baiting white like yourself when Americans start challenging Progressives and start really pissing your minorities off? It's not going to take much to place your life at risk/on the line these days. You'll learn that your race means nothing to us dude as you're learning that you're race means nothing to them either dude.

I can say one thing I've learned already, dude. What you say means nothing to me.

I learned that about you a long time ago dude. I told you a long time ago that if push ever came to shove that you were dead meat, Well, we are are almost there now that we're on a faster track so to speak. I figure your side (Democratic side) has about four years (maybe less) to mess up Washington DC beyond fixing at this point. After that, anything goes (no holds barred) pertaining to the Democratic side and winning the next war for American independence that follows is all that's going to matter at that point.

Your side will certainly have an advantage in the war if the Democrats nominate a candidate with a 3-17 horoscope score.

We already have the advantage in a war. Your current political advantage isn't going to matter in a war with America.

I don't see America on the brink of a civil war. Why do you, Classic X'er? Have you been reading The Turner Diaries again?

[Classic-Xer]

(02-18-2021, 04:10 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 04:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 02:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 03:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I wonder how many white supremacists like Classic Xer understand the supreme achievements that some whites like Bach have made.

Not to mention the achievements of some blacks like the Supremes and the Motown Sound.

I wonder how many white supremacists have more in common with racists like you and Pelosi these days.

How bot-like of you!

What? You're a racist too. So, when did the Democratic switch from race not mattering to race mattering to everyone and everything and mattering more than anything else? I know some people make lots of money off third world politics these days. I mean, look at the Obama's, Biden's and Clinton's. Who would have ever thought that public service and political careers associated with the Democratic party could end up being so lucrative these days.

What have I said that indicates that I am a racist? Character is everything, and race is among the most superficial aspects of human existence, relevant only for genetic matches for medicines and transplants. On other matters, race is a construct that does more to befuddle us than to inform us. Unless you are discussing genetics and its consequences or the consequences of racism in economics and sociology you have no standing in discussing race.

I have plenty of bad things to say about white people of suspect character... but that is not anti-white racism. What 'racial' category do you think I am in?

You are the one who used an extremely misogynic word about the Speaker of the House. I'm not repeating a word more likely to be used in pornography or in vile curses. You have shown your gross contempt for a high-achieving woman. Women are capable of achieving anything that men can do except in some athletic activities.

You've never heard a woman call another woman a cunt. I've called a woman a cunt and Ive had women agree with me. I've also agreed with women who called another woman a cunt. I get the impression that you are not up to speed with the times.

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-17-2021, 03:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We already have the advantage in a war. Your current political advantage isn't going to matter in a war with America.

What war?  Trump has already shot his bolt in instigating the capitol insurrection.  The few who cared enough about race to get violent about it exposed their faces there and are prone to arrest.  Much of the red population reacted to the insurrection, increasing the disapproval / approval rating of the former president and the latter.  The political difference is already increased.  After the lack of problem solving in the last administration, the more focused crisis administration is looking good.  Trump’s legal and debit problems are compounding.

I think you are underestimating the effective of non-violence and neglecting the trend that it is the conservative faction that yields in a crisis.  After the lack of problems solved, it is time that they are.  I explained to Eingize that most view violence as a last resort, that there are ways now to alter cultures without it.  I guess the two of you are just violence obsessed and are reluctant to hear, but you ought to consider my words.

While the cavalier culture is more enticed about solving problems with violence, and you may get your obsession with violence in part from them, they seem to be no braver than you.  Law enforcement now is taking the threat of red violence seriously.  The great red chickens took one look at the force the establishment could bring against them and ran.  As more an more chickens get arrested and the big lie becomes more obviously a big lie it will become clearer the insurrection was a last desperate move.  Trump lost.  He is a looser.  Get over it.

[Eric the Green]

(02-19-2021, 02:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-18-2021, 02:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-18-2021, 01:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 05:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, it won't be much longer and the Democratic party could elect Gumby.

Who is Gumby? And what's his birthday?

You should look into Gumby.  He has the green vote locked up.  

I figured every American your age would remember Gumby. As you sure you guys are still Americans?

I tuned out from a lot of pop culture from your generation. Cartoons were not my interest. I guess it shows your level that you are.

[Eric the Green]

(02-17-2021, 03:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 01:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 06:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: How many years have you been trying to pin your failures and all your issues with racism and poverty and all the problems with your minority populations on us? So, what do you think is going to happen to a race baiting white like yourself when Americans start challenging Progressives and start really pissing your minorities off? It's not going to take much to place your life at risk/on the line these days. You'll learn that your race means nothing to us dude as you're learning that you're race means nothing to them either dude.

I can say one thing I've learned already, dude. What you say means nothing to me.

I learned that about you a long time ago dude. I told you a long time ago that if push ever came to shove that you were dead meat, Well, we are are almost there now that we're on a faster track so to speak. I figure your side (Democratic side) has about four years (maybe less) to mess up Washington DC beyond fixing at this point. After that, anything goes (no holds barred) pertaining to the Democratic side and winning the next war for American independence that follows is all that's going to matter at that point.

Your side will certainly have an advantage in the war if the Democrats nominate a candidate with a 3-17 horoscope score.

We already have the advantage in a war. Your current political advantage isn't going to matter in a war with America.

It is interesting that the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and neo-Nazis/confederates did not bring their AR-15s with them to the Capitol invasion on Jan.6th. Open carry is not legal in DC, and I guess the militias would have to shoot their way in. I do have some concern whether national guard and DC troops would be ready for them. They could invade the Capitol again anytime during the 4T until 2029 and murder our legislators and our vice president. They are THAT crazy and mean. 

Personally I think AR-15s and all guns should be forcibly confiscated from any known militia groups. While necessary to prevent future civil invasions, this action could itself spark the civil war. Of course these AR-15 weapons and other military assault rifles should be illegal, but there are so many out there now that confiscating them from everyone who already has one would be impractical. But another Capitol invasion (including invasions of state capitols or any other place the militias or other crazy individuals or groups hate) is a definite danger now, and I don't trust the right-wing not to do what Classic Xer suggests it will do. I think this kind of small civil-war is likely to be the final act of our 4T. Jan.6th could be just a dress rehearsal. Our permissive gun laws all these years coupled with our national psychosis make this kind of event almost guaranteed to happen again and again.

I and other astrologers had already predicted what happened in January 2021 based on the planetary positions then in force. So ignoring my prediction of future such events especially from 2025 on would be unwise.

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-19-2021, 01:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It is interesting that the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and neo-Nazis/confederates did not bring their AR-15s with them to the Capitol invasion on Jan.6th. Open carry is not legal in DC, and I guess the militias would have to shoot their way in. I do have some concern whether national guard and DC troops would be ready for them. They could invade the Capitol again anytime during the 4T until 2029 and murder our legislators and our vice president. They are THAT crazy and mean. 

Personally I think AR-15s and all guns should be forcibly confiscated from any known militia groups. While necessary to prevent future civil invasions, this action could itself spark the civil war. Of course these AR-15 weapons and other military assault rifles should be illegal, but there are so many out there now that confiscating them from everyone who already has one would be impractical. But another Capitol invasion (including invasions of state capitols or any other place the militias or other crazy individuals or groups hate) is a definite danger now, and I don't trust the right-wing not to do what Classic Xer suggests it will do. I think this kind of small civil-war is likely to be the final act of our 4T. Jan.6th could be just a dress rehearsal. Our permissive gun laws all these years coupled with our national psychosis make this kind of event almost guaranteed to happen again and again.

I suspect if the long arms had been spotted well before the barriers were breached, they would have given up their intent.  They were also acting under the cover of the action of less violent sorta protestors.  These would have run rather than staying in the middle of a lethal firefight.  I suspect that billy clubs and lacrosse sticks were as far as they insurgents were wanting to go.

Removing a constitutional right would require due process.  Just being a member of an organization does not make you a felon, though enough felonies were committed on January sixth.  A bunch of people are apt to lose their right to own and carry weapons.  I suspect you will have to be content with that.

[Eric the Green]

(02-19-2021, 02:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-19-2021, 01:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It is interesting that the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and neo-Nazis/confederates did not bring their AR-15s with them to the Capitol invasion on Jan.6th. Open carry is not legal in DC, and I guess the militias would have to shoot their way in. I do have some concern whether national guard and DC troops would be ready for them. They could invade the Capitol again anytime during the 4T until 2029 and murder our legislators and our vice president. They are THAT crazy and mean. 

Personally I think AR-15s and all guns should be forcibly confiscated from any known militia groups. While necessary to prevent future civil invasions, this action could itself spark the civil war. Of course these AR-15 weapons and other military assault rifles should be illegal, but there are so many out there now that confiscating them from everyone who already has one would be impractical. But another Capitol invasion (including invasions of state capitols or any other place the militias or other crazy individuals or groups hate) is a definite danger now, and I don't trust the right-wing not to do what Classic Xer suggests it will do. I think this kind of small civil-war is likely to be the final act of our 4T. Jan.6th could be just a dress rehearsal. Our permissive gun laws all these years coupled with our national psychosis make this kind of event almost guaranteed to happen again and again.

I suspect if the long arms had been spotted well before the barriers were breached, they would have given up their intent.  They were also acting under the cover of the action of less violent sorta protestors.  These would have run rather than staying in the middle of a lethal firefight.  I suspect that billy clubs and lacrosse sticks were as far as they insurgents were wanting to go.

Removing a constitutional right would require due process.  Just being a member of an organization does not make you a felon, though enough felonies were committed on January sixth.  A bunch of people are apt to lose their right to own and carry weapons.  I suspect you will have to be content with that.

It won't take an amendment to make AR-15s and such illegal. I suppose that would be up to the Supreme Court to approve or strike down such a law, if passed, and I think Scalia would have approved such a law as far as I can tell. He gave the (mistaken in my view) opinion that the 2nd applied to individuals and not members of a well-regulated militia, but held that gun control was legal. I don't think he held that individuals had a constitutional right to own and carry today's military weapons. I suppose the current Supreme Court might rule in the Proud Boys et al favor. But yes it would take a law to make AR-15s illegal and confiscate them from militia, as I said, and laws are the result of due process. I imagine that these groups could be made illegal, depending on their purpose, but I could be wrong, and I may have to be content with what can be done, as you say. 

It's just my opinion that such more drastic measures would be needed to head off future such attacks during this 4T, perhaps indeed more-deadly ones pursued with AR-15s. Since such measures may not be in the offing, future and more-deadly such attacks are likely. And the Trump base still rules the Republican Party, which in-effect refuses to condemn such attacks and the misinformation that arouses them.

[Eric the Green]

(02-19-2021, 12:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 03:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We already have the advantage in a war. Your current political advantage isn't going to matter in a war with America.

What war?  Trump has already shot his bolt in instigating the capitol insurrection.  The few who cared enough about race to get violent about it exposed their faces there and are prone to arrest.  Much of the red population reacted to the insurrection, increasing the disapproval / approval rating of the former president and the latter.  The political difference is already increased.  After the lack of problem solving in the last administration, the more focused crisis administration is looking good.  Trump’s legal and debit problems are compounding.

I think you are underestimating the effective of non-violence and neglecting the trend that it is the conservative faction that yields in a crisis.  After the lack of problems solved, it is time that they are.  I explained to Eingize that most view violence as a last resort, that there are ways now to alter cultures without it.  I guess the two of you are just violence obsessed and are reluctant to hear, but you ought to consider my words.

While the cavalier culture is more enticed about solving problems with violence, and you may get your obsession with violence in part from them, they seem to be no braver than you.  Law enforcement now is taking the threat of red violence seriously.  The great red chickens took one look at the force the establishment could bring against them and ran.  As more an more chickens get arrested and the big lie becomes more obviously a big lie it will become clearer the insurrection was a last desperate move.  Trump lost.  He is a loser.  Get over it.

Those of Classic Xer's mindset are ready to engage in a war to defend "America." Their chief complaint, besides gun control, is immigration. What Classic and his ilk forget is that most immigration to the USA today is to the southwestern states from Mexico, and that these states used to be part of Mexico until they were illegally conquered by force of arms by the United States, and before this the people who lived there were Mexicans. So that means most of today's immigrants are just moving (or perhaps returning) to what was their country before the Europeans came and stole it. And before this, this land was part of New Spain, and before that, belonged to native tribes. So, who are the immigrants? I submit it is we European-Americans who are the immigrants. In my own case, my parents immigrated to the former Mexico from Indiana and Oklahoma ("lands of the indians") just before I was born. Most white Americans living in these southwestern states today are like me, very recent arrivals and not ancestral residents at all.

Also, Asians started coming to CA at the same time as Europeans, so they have an equal claim to being Americans there too.

Conservatives today believe in libertarian economics, which decries taxes as theft by force of arms. And yet they seem fine with what the USA itself did to Mexico by force of arms, and hold that this now entitles them to keep immigrants out by any means including murder.

But I'm sure this is too complicated for simple conservative minds like Classic Xer's to understand.

[pbrower2a]

(02-19-2021, 11:31 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-18-2021, 04:10 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 04:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 02:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I wonder how many white supremacists have more in common with racists like you and Pelosi these days.

How bot-like of you!

What? You're a racist too. So, when did the Democratic switch from race not mattering to race mattering to everyone and everything and mattering more than anything else? I know some people make lots of money off third world politics these days. I mean, look at the Obama's, Biden's and Clinton's. Who would have ever thought that public service and political careers associated with the Democratic party could end up being so lucrative these days.

What have I said that indicates that I am a racist? Character is everything, and race is among the most superficial aspects of human existence, relevant only for genetic matches for medicines and transplants. On other matters, race is a construct that does more to befuddle us than to inform us. Unless you are discussing genetics and its consequences or the consequences of racism in economics and sociology you have no standing in discussing race.

I have plenty of bad things to say about white people of suspect character... but that is not anti-white racism. What 'racial' category do you think I am in?

You are the one who used an extremely misogynic word about the Speaker of the House. I'm not repeating a word more likely to be used in pornography or in vile curses. You have shown your gross contempt for a high-achieving woman. Women are capable of achieving anything that men can do except in some athletic activities.

You've never heard a woman call another woman a cunt. I've called a woman a cunt and Ive had women agree with me. I've also agreed with women who called another woman a cunt. I get the impression that you are not up to speed with the times.

I have assumed that you are a man, and not a woman. Someone who used to post here a lot, who claimed to be black (I' took his word for it) claimed that he could make a distinction between most black people and... people that he describes with a word that rhymes with "trigger". For some reason I cannot get away with using that word. On the other side, there are certain words that I do not use for describing certain white people even if I could get away with it. Those words hurt. OK, if I use the word bitch... she barks and has or originally has  the potential to give birth to puppies. I also know enough to not mess with the puppies should she see a need to protect them. 

OK, I do not use profanity here except in minced forms. I can usually think of alternatives, and it is a good habit to say "foul up" instead of "f--k up"

[David Horn]

(02-19-2021, 02:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-19-2021, 01:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It is interesting that the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and neo-Nazis/confederates did not bring their AR-15s with them to the Capitol invasion on Jan.6th. Open carry is not legal in DC, and I guess the militias would have to shoot their way in. I do have some concern whether national guard and DC troops would be ready for them. They could invade the Capitol again anytime during the 4T until 2029 and murder our legislators and our vice president. They are THAT crazy and mean. 

Personally I think AR-15s and all guns should be forcibly confiscated from any known militia groups. While necessary to prevent future civil invasions, this action could itself spark the civil war. Of course these AR-15 weapons and other military assault rifles should be illegal, but there are so many out there now that confiscating them from everyone who already has one would be impractical. But another Capitol invasion (including invasions of state capitols or any other place the militias or other crazy individuals or groups hate) is a definite danger now, and I don't trust the right-wing not to do what Classic Xer suggests it will do. I think this kind of small civil-war is likely to be the final act of our 4T. Jan.6th could be just a dress rehearsal. Our permissive gun laws all these years coupled with our national psychosis make this kind of event almost guaranteed to happen again and again.

I suspect if the long arms had been spotted well before the barriers were breached, they would have given up their intent.  They were also acting under the cover of the action of less violent sorta protestors.  These would have run rather than staying in the middle of a lethal firefight.  I suspect that billy clubs and lacrosse sticks were as far as they insurgents were wanting to go.

Removing a constitutional right would require due process.  Just being a member of an organization does not make you a felon, though enough felonies were committed on January sixth.  A bunch of people are apt to lose their right to own and carry weapons.  I suspect you will have to be content with that.

I see a put-up-or-shut-up effort building. It's obvious that we have a nascent anarchist movement in this country, that has no problem using firearms to make its point.  We also have a SCOTUS tilted as far right as the one from the late 19th century.  Someone will get a case in front of them that will force them to settle the issue of just how much the right to bear arms allows.  Depending on the result, it will be game-on, with the losing ideology turning up the heat on the issue.  My guess: the right will be expanded a lot, and the already growing majority opposing that POV will finally organize to change it.  Successfully?  TBD.

[David Horn]

(02-19-2021, 03:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It won't take an amendment to make AR-15s and such illegal. I suppose that would be up to the Supreme Court to approve or strike down such a law, if passed, and I think Scalia would have approved such a law as far as I can tell. He gave the (mistaken in my view) opinion that the 2nd applied to individuals and not members of a well-regulated militia, but held that gun control was legal. I don't think he held that individuals had a constitutional right to own and carry today's military weapons. I suppose the current Supreme Court might rule in the Proud Boys et al favor. But yes it would take a law to make AR-15s illegal and confiscate them from militia, as I said, and laws are the result of due process. I imagine that these groups could be made illegal, depending on their purpose, but I could be wrong, and I may have to be content with what can be done, as you say...

I don't know about this. The SCOTUS is pretty far right, and guns are a major far right issue. It may be that Scalia will be seen as "moderate" when this court gets going in earnest.

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-20-2021, 09:42 AM)David Horn Wrote: I see a put-up-or-shut-up effort building. It's obvious that we have a nascent anarchist movement in this country, that has no problem using firearms to make its point.  We also have a SCOTUS tilted as far right as the one from the late 19th century.  Someone will get a case in front of them that will force them to settle the issue of just how much the right to bear arms allows.  Depending on the result, it will be game-on, with the losing ideology turning up the heat on the issue.  My guess: the right will be expanded a lot, and the already growing majority opposing that POV will finally organize to change it.  Successfully?  TBD.

I suspect there is a put-up-or-shut-up effort pending, but I see it with a different twist.

The movement is not anarchist so much as racist.  The reds are not so much against rights or democracy as much as they are against minorities having rights and a minority dominant democracy.  They are used to being ever so privileged.

I agree SCOTUS is learning hard right, but do not think they will go as far as nullifying the Bill of Rights as the Jim Crow SCOTUS did.  I would not be surprised by a ‘standard model’ case ruling something totally unacceptable to the blues and the blues giving up on the Jim Crow presidents to negotiate a compromise.  Among other things, they could redefine who is in the militia then regulate the heck out of the militia.  In combination with the red belief in the original meaning of the Second, this would escalate things to a point that there might be real talk.

I do see the Second as having room for a decent compromise if both sides were willing to compromise.  That won’t happen as long as the blues cling to what is left of the Jim Crow precedents, and the reds cling to the original meaning of the Second.  A new Second with a guaranteed individual right to keep and bear civilian arms with a clear definition of the difference between a civilian and military arm could be written, but it doesn’t have a chance as long as both sides hope for their extreme points of view.

[Classic-Xer]

(02-19-2021, 05:23 AM). pbrower2a Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 03:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-17-2021, 01:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I can say one thing I've learned already, dude. What you say means nothing to me.

I learned that about you a long time ago dude. I told you a long time ago that if push ever came to shove that you were dead meat, Well, we are are almost there now that we're on a faster track so to speak. I figure your side (Democratic side) has about four years (maybe less) to mess up Washington DC beyond fixing at this point. After that, anything goes (no holds barred) pertaining to the Democratic side and winning the next war for American independence that follows is all that's going to matter at that point.

Your side will certainly have an advantage in the war if the Democrats nominate a candidate with a 3-17 horoscope score.

We already have the advantage in a war. Your current political advantage isn't going to matter in a war with America.

I don't see America on the brink of a civil war. Why do you, Classic X'er? Have you been reading The Turner Diaries again?

That doesn't surprise me. Ignorant and arrogant people don't see what's coming until it's to late. Why do I? I guess that's for me to know now and for you to find out as it happens. Eric and I are on the same page. We only differ on which side prevails, the impacts and the outcome pertaining to those on the losing side.

[pbrower2a]

(02-20-2021, 09:42 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-19-2021, 02:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-19-2021, 01:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It is interesting that the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and neo-Nazis/confederates did not bring their AR-15s with them to the Capitol invasion on Jan.6th. Open carry is not legal in DC, and I guess the militias would have to shoot their way in. I do have some concern whether national guard and DC troops would be ready for them. They could invade the Capitol again anytime during the 4T until 2029 and murder our legislators and our vice president. They are THAT crazy and mean. 

Personally I think AR-15s and all guns should be forcibly confiscated from any known militia groups. While necessary to prevent future civil invasions, this action could itself spark the civil war. Of course these AR-15 weapons and other military assault rifles should be illegal, but there are so many out there now that confiscating them from everyone who already has one would be impractical. But another Capitol invasion (including invasions of state capitols or any other place the militias or other crazy individuals or groups hate) is a definite danger now, and I don't trust the right-wing not to do what Classic Xer suggests it will do. I think this kind of small civil-war is likely to be the final act of our 4T. Jan.6th could be just a dress rehearsal. Our permissive gun laws all these years coupled with our national psychosis make this kind of event almost guaranteed to happen again and again.

I suspect if the long arms had been spotted well before the barriers were breached, they would have given up their intent.  They were also acting under the cover of the action of less violent sorta protestors.  These would have run rather than staying in the middle of a lethal firefight.  I suspect that billy clubs and lacrosse sticks were as far as they insurgents were wanting to go.

Removing a constitutional right would require due process.  Just being a member of an organization does not make you a felon, though enough felonies were committed on January sixth.  A bunch of people are apt to lose their right to own and carry weapons.  I suspect you will have to be content with that.

I see a put-up-or-shut-up effort building. It's obvious that we have a nascent anarchist movement in this country, that has no problem using firearms to make its point.  We also have a SCOTUS tilted as far right as the one from the late 19th century.  Someone will get a case in front of them that will force them to settle the issue of just how much the right to bear arms allows.  Depending on the result, it will be game-on, with the losing ideology turning up the heat on the issue.  My guess: the right will be expanded a lot, and the already growing majority opposing that POV will finally organize to change it.  Successfully?  TBD.

They are not anarchists about class privilege and the power of the elites of ownership and management. They want the state role greatly reduced except in enforcing the will of economic elites. They want people other than those elites to be completely dependent upon them for survival at terms of those elites' choosing. 

They call it liberty, but is "liberty for me and not for thee".