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A solid Awakening can follow a calamitous Crisis Era as happened in Germany, Italy, and Japan with the national shame associated with the leadership that made such a calamity possible. Obviously, if the People repudiate the gangster rulers and enjoy considerable freedom, then their might still emerge the glacial culture following a 4T. It is the cultural staleness of the High that allows political and economic conformity that eventually makes itself obsolete.
More prosperity means that children can take economic survival for granted. Kids have time in which to read, and they eventually start reading books that ask some questions or induce a curious person to ask questions.(Whether the books are dead-tree editions or electronic editions will not concern us). The kids did nothing to make their world what it is and they become natural critics of an anesthetic culture.
Note well that the Awakening is strongest among youth of intellectual privilege, the ones who are not obliged to struggle for economic survival. When life revolves around making a bare living in post-crisis wreckage or if the sole purpose in life is to enrich, pamper, and avoid the enmity of economic elites, there is little room for any cultural awakening. I see pop culture about ten years from now being more whimsical than cerebral; after that it will be unabashedly hedonistic before it shows evidence of expressions of intellectual profundities. That will be around 2040.
This assumes that this Crisis goes somewhat well -- that it does not bring despotism and extreme plutocracy about, which is still possible. Donald Trump reflects the worst of the early wave of the Boom Generation, and he might have followers similarly narcissistic, but even more ruthless and politically canny. To suggest a scary verbal image of the future then
'If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – for ever. ' This is one of the most famous quotations from George Orwell's 1949 novel, Nineteen Eighty-Four. ...
We have plenty of powerful, extreme narcissists in the media, in political life, and in business who see the rest of Humanity only as people to enrich them and sate their egos. Those are monsters, the human expressions of Moloch. They fear only their personal ruin from forces that can topple, ruin, and judge them. Such power as people rightly have comes with valid service, achieving real good or at least safety from foreign threats, domestic despotism, and social calamities (such as economic meltdowns such as the one that started the Great Depression. Donald Trump demonstrates that fascism would please many whose conscience is little more than Schadenfreude.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(01-17-2022, 02:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: How can there be a 1T or a 2T without a proper 4T preceding it? That's not how the cycle works. If nothing is done in this 4T, climate change and inequality with all the social and health problems that go along with these will be so engrained and democracy so destroyed that no-one in the 2040s and 50s will have any means or any hope of correcting these problems. 1Ts are stand pat eras; 2Ts are about cultural change; 4Ts are supposed to be the time when we fight it out on so-called "real issues" and make the institutional changes. This is the job of the prophet, nomad and civic generational combo. Others cannot do it. Two senators are blocking us right now. We have to find a way to break through this in this decade, or we die. We are toast and we are through.
Reality rarely matches expectations; this 4T certainly hasn't. The question you ask is, can a poor 4T generate a 1T? I think so. After all, the last 1T varied greatly from country to country, and all seem to have been real 1Ts -- even Japan and both Germanies. But you're right that the lack of progress will make things far worse than solving problems today. 2040 will be bad. That doesn't mean that it's an unredeemable scenario, just highly challenging.
Eric Wrote:Biden is right; we are at a deciding point. He may have to find a way to work with some Republicans and get half a loaf for now. 4Ts don't have to solve all the problems; just enough so we can continue to function and resolve the conflicts so that our republic survives and progresses. If we can do something, then the people of the next 2T (especially early in the 2T) will have a chance to make further reforms along with opening up the culture to real spirit and real free and embodied experience again, and to propose ideals and values to be acted on in the following 4T and beyond.
I agree up to a point. Always compromising with intransigent stupidity also validates the stupidity. I don't have a solution for that.
Eric Wrote:Another point is that neoliberalism and other reactionary ideologies have been so dominant for so long, that if not overturned in this 4T after such a long 40+ year conservative period, the USA will have (and already is to a large extent) become so used to the Reagan model that it will just become the norm forever. The pendulum is supposed to swing. If it no longer swings, our politics and our civics is dead and the turning pendulum is broken too.
My wife was born in 1959 and has been immersed in neoliberalism her entire post-adolescent life. She's a liberal but still can't see many of the inherent fallacies for lack of any evidence to the contrary. Even younger people have less. We need leaders who can make eye-opening possible, and there are few of them in evidence.
Eric Wrote:This is now longer than the period in the romantic age of 1815 to 1850 when all change was prohibited and all ideals were frustrated by restored monarchs after the French Revolution and Napoleon. The only way it was broken was by opening a period of realpolitik industrial nationalism with some reforms thrown in, leading to the eventual death of the old European civilization in a 30-year holocaust in the 20th century.
Again, leaders are the missing factor.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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01-18-2022, 01:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2022, 01:57 PM by Eric the Green.)
(01-18-2022, 12:35 PM)David Horn Wrote: Eric Wrote:Another point is that neoliberalism and other reactionary ideologies have been so dominant for so long, that if not overturned in this 4T after such a long 40+ year conservative period, the USA will have (and already is to a large extent) become so used to the Reagan model that it will just become the norm forever. The pendulum is supposed to swing. If it no longer swings, our politics and our civics is dead and the turning pendulum is broken too.
My wife was born in 1959 and has been immersed in neoliberalism her entire post-adolescent life. She's a liberal but still can't see many of the inherent fallacies for lack of any evidence to the contrary. Even younger people have less. We need leaders who can make eye-opening possible, and there are few of them in evidence.
You can't be both a liberal and a neo-liberal. Despite the language, these are opposites. But I am not speaking for your wife, not knowing her as you do.
Quote:Eric Wrote:This is now longer than the period in the romantic age of 1815 to 1850 when all change was prohibited and all ideals were frustrated by restored monarchs after the French Revolution and Napoleon. The only way it was broken was by opening a period of realpolitik industrial nationalism with some reforms thrown in, leading to the eventual death of the old European civilization in a 30-year holocaust in the 20th century.
Again, leaders are the missing factor.
And there is no-one on the horizon at the moment. Certainly not any of the 2016 or 2020 announced presidential candidates. But I never agreed though, that it's up to the leaders. We the people are the source of the needed changes. We are the ones failing. I don't think it's all that hard to be a true liberal and admit that the country needs to "transform". But the Republicans can get away with saying that Americans don't want transformation. The reality is that whoever does not keep transforming and progressing, regresses and declines. That is not as hard principle to grasp, but Americans fail to grasp it.
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(01-18-2022, 12:35 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-17-2022, 02:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: How can there be a 1T or a 2T without a proper 4T preceding it? That's not how the cycle works. If nothing is done in this 4T, climate change and inequality with all the social and health problems that go along with these will be so engrained and democracy so destroyed that no-one in the 2040s and 50s will have any means or any hope of correcting these problems. 1Ts are stand pat eras; 2Ts are about cultural change; 4Ts are supposed to be the time when we fight it out on so-called "real issues" and make the institutional changes. This is the job of the prophet, nomad and civic generational combo. Others cannot do it. Two senators are blocking us right now. We have to find a way to break through this in this decade, or we die. We are toast and we are through.
Reality rarely matches expectations; this 4T certainly hasn't. The question you ask is, can a poor 4T generate a 1T? I think so. After all, the last 1T varied greatly from country to country, and all seem to have been real 1Ts -- even Japan and both Germanies. But you're right that the lack of progress will make things far worse than solving problems today. 2040 will be bad. That doesn't mean that it's an unredeemable scenario, just highly challenging.
Who will conquer and transform the USA, the way the USA and The West conquered and transformed Japan and Germany?
Remember, if we have a 2T it will only begin in the late 2040s. Something will happen, but without a progressive 4T victory, it will just be an acceleration of destruction. The year 2040 will be more like 1960 or 1880, just not as happy or prosperous.
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Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
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(01-15-2022, 02:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I am so thankful that Biden is showing the power of rhetoric and leadership. He is stepping up as a fourth turning leader against the tyranny, fascism, racism and reactionary ignorance of the likes of you, Classic Xer. He is leading the USA to turn back the attack on its soul and values led by your side. He is becoming the new FDR and Lincoln, and Trump is the new Jefferson Davis. There is absolutely no doubt about this. Whether the conflict will become violent will not be entirely clear until 2025, but the reactionary fascist threats are growing, the Justice Department is taking action against your side Classic Xer, and the forces of freedom and democracy as exemplified by Senator Warnock are growing too.
Are you trying to put lipstick and perfume on a dirty old pig? Good luck with that these days.
Yes. I've noticed Biden's Justice Department is becoming more and more politically active ( which is illegal to do in this country by the way) as Biden's poll numbers/popularity have been tanking and American based groups have been becoming more prevalent, more vocal and more troublesome to those in power on the Progressive Side these days. Oh, they should be more careful about doing dumb stuff like that these days since all of they're lives are now at stake with over half the country not giving a shit what happens to any of Them these days. We are about as close as nation can get to Civil War without legally killing each other yet. Wouldn't you agree? In short, we are waiting for Jefferson Davis (Joe Biden or Kamala Harris) to fuck up big time and justify another American War with another group of wayward Democrats.
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(01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
How close do you think you are to being discarded by America? I'd say that you're within five years of losing every American right and Constitutional protection that you currently have and take for granted today.
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01-18-2022, 11:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2022, 12:13 AM by Classic-Xer.)
(01-15-2022, 04:27 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (01-15-2022, 04:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (01-15-2022, 02:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Right now we are on the verge of world war. It is democracy versus tyranny all over the world. Climate change is fueling the fight. Russia threatens to invade Ukraine and China threatens to invade Taiwan. People everywhere will get weapons and fight their tyrants and get support from democracies and NATO. I am predicting that the war will not break out this year, but may break out in 2025 or perhaps 2024 or 2026. Certainly the USA itself will not be in a war footing until then. Well, we'll see.
I'd like to see what happens with the mid terms, but I think there is a good chance the peak in violence occurred January 6th. Both the protests and the violence peaked then. If the mid terms should go Republican, I could easily see the protests restart, and the violence could follow. Still, I see the timing of the DOJ efforts as designed to peak with the mid terms.
We shall indeed see.
Yes, we'll see. Right now, the Republicans are gerrymandering congress so clearly that the House will go Republican no matter how the people vote. It will be very hard to fight gerrymandering through the courts. Sinema and Manchin appear ready to support gerrymandering, vote suppression and vote subversion this weekend. Even if they vote to support the right to vote bills instead, I am not even sure the law will guarantee that independent commissions are instituted nationwide this year, so that the voters choose their representatives instead of vice versa. Then the Supreme Court could strike down these new bills. Meanwhile, the militias are actively planning to bring their guns to threaten or shoot election officials if they don't do their will. Republicans are supporting every attack on democracy now; compromise and principle have disappeared from their minds and hearts. Dr. King's method will not work on Classic Xer's faction of Trump worshippers. They have no conscience at all for the people to appeal to.
There was every reason to conclude that in the green information age that we have risen above violence as the means to decide issues. Now it appears worldwide that this is no longer the case. Despite people power, the power of the people is being trampled.
The only people who are trying to attack/weaken/undermine democracy are Chuck, Nancy and Joe Biden these days. Whether you agree or not, see what I'm seeing or not, does not matter because the damage that they're causing is already being done. I hope they have the trillions that they're going to need to survive this 4T. BTW, I don't worship human beings like those on the Left.
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(01-18-2022, 02:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Who will conquer and transform the USA, the way the USA and The West conquered and transformed Japan and Germany?
Remember, if we have a 2T it will only begin in the late 2040s. Something will happen, but without a progressive 4T victory, it will just be an acceleration of destruction. The year 2040 will be more like 1960 or 1880, just not as happy or prosperous.
No one. You might conquer and transform some with the help of China, North Korea and the modern day remnant of the old Soviet Union aka Putin's Russia.
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(01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
When people have a meaningful chance to see something better. Upon evaporating Reaganomics to its essence one finds that it is little more than cheap labor and captive markets. People are underpaid and overworked, which is good for keeping prices low. People create prosperity through their toil yet are denied the ability to prosper from their toil. Meanwhile profiteers in real estate constrain the availability of housing, which ensures that slumlords (basically just about any apartment over forty years old is a slum) gouge severely.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(01-18-2022, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
How close do you think you are to being discarded by America? I'd say that you're within five years of losing every American right and Constitutional protection that you currently have and take for granted today.
A political order that discards its own people deserves itself to be discarded, whether the Devil's Reich, Stalin's Gulag empire, Uganda under the madness of Idi A-murderin', Rwanda during its genocide, Iraq under Satan Hussein, or contemporary Syria or North Korea. This should be clear:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
No, this is not Marxist rhetoric!
This is the Real America, the principles of which include guarantee of life and liberty, and the possibility that one can seek happiness in life (if no guarantee of finding that happiness). If people have no right to happiness except in complete compliance with your values, especially if they differ from your culture, then people have every reason to rebel from such.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(01-19-2022, 06:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (01-18-2022, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
How close do you think you are to being discarded by America? I'd say that you're within five years of losing every American right and Constitutional protection that you currently have and take for granted today.
A political order that discards its own people deserves itself to be discarded, whether the Devil's Reich, Stalin's Gulag empire, Uganda under the madness of Idi A-murderin', Rwanda during its genocide, Iraq under Satan Hussein, or contemporary Syria or North Korea. This should be clear:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
No, this is not Marxist rhetoric!
This is the Real America, the principles of which include guarantee of life and liberty, and the possibility that one can seek happiness in life (if no guarantee of finding that happiness). If people have no right to happiness except in complete compliance with your values, especially if they differ from your culture, then people have every reason to rebel from such.
You're right, that's not Marxist rhetoric, it's American rhetoric associated with American Revolutionaries. As you can see and read above, America has the right to revolt and eliminate a Marxist Regime these days. You do understand that right, You do understand that Chuck, Nancy and Joe do not represent the views, beliefs or the values of the majority of the American people today right. Eric doesn't seem to understand that any better than you or Them these days.
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(01-18-2022, 02:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Who will conquer and transform the USA, the way the USA and The West conquered and transformed Japan and Germany?
Not who but what. AGW cares not a whit about our politics, and will finally make ignoring it impossible at some point. I doubt it will take 18 years to get there.
Eric Wrote:Remember, if we have a 2T it will only begin in the late 2040s. Something will happen, but without a progressive 4T victory, it will just be an acceleration of destruction. The year 2040 will be more like 1960 or 1880, just not as happy or prosperous.
Assuming a failed 4T, the next 2T may look more 4T-like than a typical activist-inspirational 2T. Since it's hih=hly unlikely I'll be a round to see more than opening salvos, playing Casandra is pretty risk-free for me.  
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(01-18-2022, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
How close do you think you are to being discarded by America? I'd say that you're within five years of losing every American right and Constitutional protection that you currently have and take for granted today.
That's funny, actually. Your Liberty or Death cult is getting older by the moment. Eventually, assuming you guys manage to take full control, your rulers will finally prove that they are only in it for the money ... all the money. The rest of us will watch as you revenge yourselves by taking to the streets, armed to the teeth, and killing all the innocents you encounter ... but your leaders will still have the money and the power.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(01-19-2022, 01:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-19-2022, 06:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (01-18-2022, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
How close do you think you are to being discarded by America? I'd say that you're within five years of losing every American right and Constitutional protection that you currently have and take for granted today.
A political order that discards its own people deserves itself to be discarded, whether the Devil's Reich, Stalin's Gulag empire, Uganda under the madness of Idi A-murderin', Rwanda during its genocide, Iraq under Satan Hussein, or contemporary Syria or North Korea. This should be clear:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
No, this is not Marxist rhetoric!
This is the Real America, the principles of which include guarantee of life and liberty, and the possibility that one can seek happiness in life (if no guarantee of finding that happiness). If people have no right to happiness except in complete compliance with your values, especially if they differ from your culture, then people have every reason to rebel from such.
You're right, that's not Marxist rhetoric, it's American rhetoric associated with American Revolutionaries. As you can see and read above, America has the right to revolt and eliminate a Marxist Regime these days. You do understand that right, You do understand that Chuck, Nancy and Joe do not represent the views, beliefs or the values of the majority of the American people today right. Eric doesn't seem to understand that any better than you or Them these days.
I would strongly discourage Americans from traveling to Cuba with the intent of overthrowing the Marxist regime therein.
You are seriously deluded if you think that the Democratic Party is Marxist. You are full of cognitive dissonance.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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01-19-2022, 02:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2022, 02:24 PM by Eric the Green.)
(01-19-2022, 01:39 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-18-2022, 02:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Who will conquer and transform the USA, the way the USA and The West conquered and transformed Japan and Germany?
Not who but what. AGW cares not a whit about our politics, and will finally make ignoring it impossible at some point. I doubt it will take 18 years to get there.
Eric Wrote:Remember, if we have a 2T it will only begin in the late 2040s. Something will happen, but without a progressive 4T victory, it will just be an acceleration of destruction. The year 2040 will be more like 1960 or 1880, just not as happy or prosperous.
Assuming a failed 4T, the next 2T may look more 4T-like than a typical activist-inspirational 2T. Since it's hih=hly unlikely I'll be a round to see more than opening salvos, playing Casandra is pretty risk-free for me.
But AGW can't rescue the USA like the USA rescued Japan and Germany after their failed 4T. They would not have had a 2T later otherwise; that was the point.
Ignoring it certainly seems possible for the USA, if not for many others, but that is only because the USA people have become so oblivious to reality and the true dangers we face. We have too many Classic Xers among us.
I don't think we will get beyond this decade without being irreparably damaged by global warming. If we ignore it, then it will be too late after this decade for the USA to do anything about it. The USA does nothing about anything during first turnings. It can only continue what has already been started. After then, the tipping points will have already been reached by the time the next 2T comes in circa 2047. We might be around for those days, or maybe we won't be. The disaster itself might not have reached it peak, which may come decades or centuries later. By then of course there will be nothing to do for the few survivors but to play survivalist. It's easy for us to hand our unwillingness to fulfill our proper role as prophets off to the next ones, but it's not a workable approach. The whole cycle will be over.
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(01-19-2022, 01:25 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-19-2022, 06:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (01-18-2022, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
How close do you think you are to being discarded by America? I'd say that you're within five years of losing every American right and Constitutional protection that you currently have and take for granted today.
A political order that discards its own people deserves itself to be discarded, whether the Devil's Reich, Stalin's Gulag empire, Uganda under the madness of Idi A-murderin', Rwanda during its genocide, Iraq under Satan Hussein, or contemporary Syria or North Korea. This should be clear:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
No, this is not Marxist rhetoric!
This is the Real America, the principles of which include guarantee of life and liberty, and the possibility that one can seek happiness in life (if no guarantee of finding that happiness). If people have no right to happiness except in complete compliance with your values, especially if they differ from your culture, then people have every reason to rebel from such.
You're right, that's not Marxist rhetoric, it's American rhetoric associated with American Revolutionaries. As you can see and read above, America has the right to revolt and eliminate a Marxist Regime these days. You do understand that right, You do understand that Chuck, Nancy and Joe do not represent the views, beliefs or the values of the majority of the American people today right. Eric doesn't seem to understand that any better than you or Them these days.
Well, I do understand how often the American people have made the wrong choice of views, values and beliefs-- namely the choices that YOU favor. There's no guarantee we won't go down that road to destruction. Or should I say, continue to go down it, as we have been travelling that road for over 40 years now.
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Yes, those rights are for all of us -- as I call it "the Big Us" as opposed to the "narrow Us" that Classic X'er defines as people like he. That "narrow Us" excludes tens of millions of people who differ from what he considers American by race, ethnicity, religion, political views, or exual orientation.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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01-19-2022, 03:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2022, 04:06 PM by Eric the Green.)
(01-19-2022, 01:47 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-18-2022, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2022, 09:45 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (01-18-2022, 04:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Neoliberalism is anything but liberal. It is spent as an ideology and has failed.
So, how far away do you think we are from being able to give Reaganomics last rites?
How close do you think you are to being discarded by America? I'd say that you're within five years of losing every American right and Constitutional protection that you currently have and take for granted today.
That's funny, actually. Your Liberty or Death cult is getting older by the moment. Eventually, assuming you guys manage to take full control, your rulers will finally prove that they are only in it for the money ... all the money. The rest of us will watch as you revenge yourselves by taking to the streets, armed to the teeth, and killing all the innocents you encounter ... but your leaders will still have the money and the power.
Classic Xer's hero was portrayed well on Perry Mason in 1966, in episode #266, "The Unwelcome Well."
Actor Wendell Corey, formerly the lead in a series called The Eleventh Hour, played oil baron and subsequent murder victim Jerome Klee, who decided to cap a big new oil find on a hillbilly's property because he had made a much bigger new oil deal with an Arab leader, so using the big Rohan field now (the hillbilly's field) as Perry (then Klee's lawyer) had persuaded Rohan to allow, would depress the crude price on the world market. But Rohan had mortgaged his house and his land to buy stuff in anticipation of the oil revenue. Perry says "but he's liable to lose his land. You can't DO that!"
Klee says the last time anyone told him what to do, it was his own father, and he broke his jaw for him. He was the last one to try it!
Perry: "I see you have most of your associates intimidated"
Klee: "Oh, but not YOU Perry!"
Perry: "No, I'm not intimidated, I'm appalled. What kind of a man ARE you?"
Klee. "A money man, Mr. Mason. Some people collect boats, art; heaven knows why I don't. I collect money; it's as simple as that."
Perry: "How much money do you want?
Klee: "If I can get it, all there is."
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0673422/cha.../nm0179819
Corey himself ran for congress soon afterward as a Republican, but lost and then died.
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