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The Gray Champion is something I keep coming back to, and at root its just a fun guessing game.
I believe there will be one President in between Trump and the first Millennial President, that person most likely being the Gray Champion.
My top 5:
1. Michael Bloomberg
2. Hillary Clinton
3. Joe Biden
4. Mitt Romney
5. Elizabeth Warren
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If any of those ppl are the GC we are screwed
 my 2 yr old Niece/yr old Nephew 2020
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Amy Klobuchar?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-14-2018, 05:34 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Amy Klobuchar?
Not gray enough to really fit it.
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(11-15-2018, 06:38 PM)jleagans Wrote: (11-14-2018, 05:34 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Amy Klobuchar?
Not gray enough to really fit it.
Born in 1960. Lincoln never reached age 60, and FDR did not turn 60 until January 15, 1942.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-14-2018, 04:58 PM)jleagans Wrote: The Gray Champion is something I keep coming back to, and at root its just a fun guessing game.
I believe there will be one President in between Trump and the first Millennial President, that person most likely being the Gray Champion.
My top 5:
1. Michael Bloomberg
2. Hillary Clinton
3. Joe Biden
4. Mitt Romney
5. Elizabeth Warren
Assuming we are talking about presidents, Joe Biden has a small chance; none of the others do. Bernie Sanders has an outside shot. See my video for who are the only 3 who can be gray champion presidents.
Of course, gray champions are not necessarily presidents, and there's more than one. About 18 years ago on the Fourth Turning Forum, I predicted it would be Hillary Clinton. But she didn't measure up. None of the above will.
I think Al Gore is a gray champion just for making global warming a major issue, and just for enduring all the abuse he got for doing it. Bill McKibben is another. Michael Moore and Robert Reich may not be gray champions but I can't think of anyone better yet.
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11-16-2018, 04:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2018, 04:22 AM by Marypoza.)
(11-15-2018, 07:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-14-2018, 04:58 PM)jleagans Wrote: The Gray Champion is something I keep coming back to, and at root its just a fun guessing game.
I believe there will be one President in between Trump and the first Millennial President, that person most likely being the Gray Champion.
My top 5:
1. Michael Bloomberg
2. Hillary Clinton
3. Joe Biden
4. Mitt Romney
5. Elizabeth Warren
Assuming we are talking about presidents, Joe Biden has a small chance; none of the others do. Bernie Sanders has an outside shot. See my video for who are the only 3 who can be gray champion presidents.
Of course, gray champions are not necessarily presidents, and there's more than one. About 18 years ago on the Fourth Turning Forum, I predicted it would be Hillary Clinton. But she didn't measure up. None of the above will.
I think Al Gore is a gray champion just for making global warming a major issue, and just for enduring all the abuse he got for doing it. Bill McKibben is another. Michael Moore and Robert Reich may not be gray champions but I can't think of anyone better yet.
-- Bernie
Like u say they don't have 2 b Prez. Benjamin Franklin wasn't Prez
& Bernie probably would b Prez if he wasn't screwed over during the primaries
my 2 yr old Niece/yr old Nephew 2020
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The Gray Champion isn't necessarily the leader. It's the Prophet values champion driving the social change, but the leadership could be provided by a Nomad, as happened in the Revolutionary War saeculum.
Steve Barrera
[A]lthough one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation. - Hagakure
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Oh I see Eric already made that point.
Well, here is one Boomer I think deserves Gray Champion status - Robert Reich. He is active on social media, promoting a progressive-left view of what is needed to fix the country. He is very firm in his beliefs and an excellent communicator.
Steve Barrera
[A]lthough one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation. - Hagakure
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(11-16-2018, 09:03 AM)sbarrera Wrote: The Gray Champion isn't necessarily the leader. It's the Prophet values champion driving the social change, but the leadership could be provided by a Nomad, as happened in the Revolutionary War saeculum.
-- um, Bemjamin Franklin was a prophet (Awakener)
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Biden is looking better and better on this front, maybe Bloomberg. Nancy should get honorable mention status.
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(03-18-2019, 12:52 PM)jleagans Wrote: Biden is looking better and better on this front, maybe Bloomberg. Nancy should get honorable mention status.
First of all, the GC is not a person, per se. It's a mantle worn by one or many people carrying the torch and showing the way. I suspect that Bernie Sanders will be seen in that light, regardless of his run for office in 2020. He changed the political discussion on the left completely when he ran in 2016, and it's now the de facto baseline. That's GC work if I've ever seen it.
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Could there be room for a "new Martin Luther King"? After the conscience-free leadership that shows utter contempt for reason and fact, this could be just what we need.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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04-24-2019, 03:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2019, 03:24 PM by AspieMillennial.)
Let me remind you that the grey champion isn't always the good guy. In Germany the grey champion was Hitler; keep that in mind. In the Soviet Union, the grey champion was Stalin. Sometimes the grey champion turns out to be evil.
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(04-24-2019, 03:22 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: Let me remind you that the grey champion isn't always the good guy. In Germany the grey champion was Hitler; keep that in mind. In the Soviet Union, the grey champion was Stalin. Sometimes the grey champion turns out to be evil.
Let me add a point we tend to forget, or maybe just ignore. The Gray Champion is not a person. It's a role. Benjamin Franklin served as a gray champion in his day, but so did others. George Mason also served as a counter to Franklin. And let's not forget the authors of the Federalist Papers, both of whom were young.
The point of the gray champion is to be a beacon. Most who serve in that role never lead in the traditional sense.
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We could see people seemingly unlikely as models of the Grey Champion. Figure that America now has more dissidents than it has had since the era of anarchists and Bolshevik-imitators. They could be libertarians, conservative traditionalists, liberals, socialists, or Marxists. Trump is objectionable to many for different reasons.
Social media could thrust people from obscurity to unforeseen prominence. Some people who have thought that their views are a significant minority may find that they have an input into institutional change. Some of us have the same capabilities that our Founding Fathers has.
Donald Trump represents much that is wrong with our country -- greed, dishonesty, contempt for reason, sexual exploitation, and moral hollowness. The 4T leadership that defines the future of American life usually implies a coalition of disparate interests; in the late 1930s such included rising minorities (then Jews and Irish-Americans), western and southern agrarian interests, conservationists, liberal intellectuals, and organized labor. If America is divided neatly between Trump supporters and those who loathe him, those who now opposed to Trump are divided also on why they oppose him. Trump would have succeeded had he put together so disparate a coalition (which might have included Christian fundamentalists, racists and religious bigots, monopoly capitalists, bureaucratic elites, farmers and ranchers, energy interests, and maybe some people who now despise him; at such he seems to have failed catastrophically. Someone else will define a 4T coalition that sets the tone of the forthcoming 1T. Just watch the 2020 election.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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I hate to be the one who tells you, y'all are wrong. But there's nothing new about that. Back in 2015 I said that there were only two candidates for being the GC. Those were Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. The DNC screwed Bernie over (and his world view is going no where fast anyway) so that left Donald Trump left standing--begrudgingly for some Boomer Neo-Cons (Big Government Liberals that just have an R after their name really).
There is no point in making a prediction in 2019--he's already shown up. He will have a second term too. Question really should be since unlike with FDR we have term limits if the 4T lasts longer than 2028 will he have someone suitable to pass the torch to. I'm looking for an Xer Nationalist-Populist of the Trump vein.
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(04-30-2019, 08:21 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I hate to be the one who tells you, y'all are wrong. But there's nothing new about that. Back in 2015 I said that there were only two candidates for being the GC. Those were Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. The DNC screwed Bernie over (and his world view is going no where fast anyway) so that left Donald Trump left standing--begrudgingly for some Boomer Neo-Cons (Big Government Liberals that just have an R after their name really).
There is no point in making a prediction in 2019--he's already shown up. He will have a second term too. Question really should be since unlike with FDR we have term limits if the 4T lasts longer than 2028 will he have someone suitable to pass the torch to. I'm looking for an Xer Nationalist-Populist of the Trump vein.
I'm sorry: Mafia Don is many things, but a successful President is not one of them. If he gets reelected, and that remains a possibility, this country will not recover for decades. It won't matter so much to me personally: I'll be dead for most of it. But I have children and grandchildren I want to have a good life, and turning the country over to a lying thief is not a way to achieve that.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(04-30-2019, 08:21 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I hate to be the one who tells you, y'all are wrong. But there's nothing new about that. Back in 2015 I said that there were only two candidates for being the GC. Those were Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. The DNC screwed Bernie over (and his world view is going no where fast anyway) so that left Donald Trump left standing--begrudgingly for some Boomer Neo-Cons (Big Government Liberals that just have an R after their name really).
We may need a high-tax, high-service economy just to deal with the prosperity that our technology has made possible. The crony-capitalist nightmare that Trump offers will be misery for 95% of Americans who get to see 2% of Americans express themselves in ostentatious splendor. in essence, the dogs who participate in the elites' fox hunts will be better fed than most of us.
Quote:There is no point in making a prediction in 2019--he's already shown up. He will have a second term too.
Around May 1, 1931... Herbert Hoover needed only turn the economy around to get re-elected. Trump has offended so many sensibilities with his lies, his lunacy, and his corruption.
Quote:Question really should be since unlike with FDR we have term limits if the 4T lasts longer than 2028 will he have someone suitable to pass the torch to. I'm looking for an Xer Nationalist-Populist of the Trump vein.
So I imagine that I somehow get the ability to play golf like Tiger Woods, play the piano like the late Artur Rubinstein, or do physical comedy like Charlie Chaplin did. I get rich. Absurd? Sure -- but with absurd assumptions one can go anywhere.
I am looking for a two-term liberal President to follow the Trump failure, and then a sober, bland Eisenhower type who slows things down to comfort as the antithesis of populism of any kind.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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I think we will have a two term liberal President. His name is Donald J. Trump. He will be followed by an Xer who in a different era would be a Big City Business Democrat but by then Nationalism-Populism will have swept the neo-cons out of the GOP and they will go back to the Democrats from whence they came in the 1960s if they are even still around.
There is a far greater chance of the Democrats splitting in 2020 and the Greens absorbing them in 2024.
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