What caused Baby Boomers to be so paranoid?

[disasterzone]

To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

[Mikebert]

I'm a Boomer and I don't know.  All this fear about terrorism seems absolutely nutty* Same goes for spree shooters.  We even had one here in Kalamazoo early this year, and it had little impact outside those affected. Spree shootings and small-scale mass killings that are labeled as terrorism are commonplace events in modern America.  I know more people killed by gun violence than affected by terrorism or spree shootings. Many of the people with their shorts in a bundle about terrorism are completely blasé about gun violence, so I think a lot of the paranoia thing is political posturing.  I doubt most of these folks are really scared.

On the other hand, as a 1959 baby I am sort of a cusper, so maybe I am more Gen X in this regard. People do tell me I have a cynical attitude about some things.

*I can see the case for some paranoia for New Yorkers in the years after 911. After all there were 3000 dead. Multiply by 100 and you have those would might be consider as having one degree of separation (my wife's cousin is one of these).  So you have something like 300,000 affected, like 2-3% of the population in the NYC urban region.  Most New Yorkers are going to know someone affected. One of the old posters is another one of these 1 degree separation folks (although he did not lose anyone, he was adjacent to ground zero when it happened and had a harrowing experience).  So that's two second-degree connections with 911 that I have and I live in Michigan. Outside of 911, I have no association with any other terrorist act.

[Bronsin]

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

Maybe you could explain this viewpoint a little more. I don't think it's just Baby Boomers, even though I'm a GenXer, who are concerned with terrorism and school shootings. You think people are over-reacting when they have family members blown up or shot? What would be an appropriate response, in your opinion?

[Eric the Green]

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

Yeah, are you so sure you have the birthdays straight for all these people you call "they," who are doing these things?

I don't know about who "they" are exactly, or what generation, but there was a book out recently about this, and the author mentioned all the bad publicity about crime and shootings in the last few decades that has people all afraid, even though now crime is down. Terrorism and the Patriot Act is another issue, but it just adds to the fear.

[The Wonkette]

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

In my experience, it's been the Gen-X parents who have been more hyper-vigilant about their Millennial and Homeland children. I had my daughter relatively late and many of her classmates' parents were early Gen-X (I'm a 1956 cohort). They tended to be stricter, less likely to let their middle-school kids trick-or-treat alone, etc...

[Eric the Green]

(10-30-2016, 06:13 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

In my experience, it's been the Gen-X parents who have been more hyper-vigilant about their Millennial and Homeland children. I had my daughter relatively late and many of her classmates' parents were early Gen-X (I'm a 1956 cohort). They tended to be stricter, less likely to let their middle-school kids trick-or-treat alone, etc...

That would seem to coincide with Strauss and Howe's theory and prediction.

[Warren Dew]

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

With respect to zero tolerance rules, it isn't paranoia, it's knowledge.  Boomers know what we did when we were young, we don't want our kids doing it, and since we know what would have stopped us, we know how to stop them.  This is also why Millenial protesters end up being used as political pawns, rather than creating a self sustaining protest culture as the Boomers did in the 1960s.

The so called Patriot act didn't happen until Boomers were in the 40-60 age range and most parents were Gen X, so I wouldn't say that was mainly Boomer paranoia.  I strongly suspect that was the result of loss of the Silent ability to look at both sides of each story.  Boomers and Gen X politicians were more willing to tighten government control - and thus their own power - at the cost off individual rights, letting no crisis go to waste.

[Odin]

The Patriot Act was Neocon BS, it has nothing to do in itself with anything generational. Cheney is a Silent and he was the puppetmaster of the whole Bush regime.

[disasterzone]

(10-31-2016, 06:30 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

With respect to zero tolerance rules, it isn't paranoia, it's knowledge.  Boomers know what we did when we were young, we don't want our kids doing it, and since we know what would have stopped us, we know how to stop them.  This is also why Millenial protesters end up being used as political pawns, rather than creating a self sustaining protest culture as the Boomers did in the 1960s.

The so called Patriot act didn't happen until Boomers were in the 40-60 age range and most parents were Gen X, so I wouldn't say that was mainly Boomer paranoia.  I strongly suspect that was the result of loss of the Silent ability to look at both sides of each story.  Boomers and Gen X politicians were more willing to tighten government control - and thus their own power - at the cost off individual rights, letting no crisis go to waste.

But you're willing to destroy lots of lives just so that you can feel safe. With the age of the internet, one blemish can ruin someone's entire life. It's like you're setting up a system where people aren't free to make mistakes.

What this system did to me (and I had several close calls that could have wrecked my life) is it made me able to think several steps ahead and plan things out to get them done behind backs. If you're not a group consensus person and you're in this era, you have no other choice but to be sneaky and manipulative while having a smile on your face and acting very good. The only other options are having group consensus swallow you whole since you'd be the lone protester, or doing things without thinking, just living life and having your life ruined. And if you go the complete risk averse route like many Millennials, you end up not getting anything done unless a bunch of people agree with you. I don't have time to wait for things to end. You have to be pragmatic now. I hate it when people are so afraid of taking a risk they would rather sit and ridicule the person trying to get something done while they themselves do nothing but wait for some giant consensus to magically appear. I don't know how you can be so patient to wait for something where by the time there's consensus, most of your life is already over. Or wait to react to something because they feel it's immature or that it's better just to live your life and somehow not care.

[Warren Dew]

(10-31-2016, 06:52 AM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 06:30 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

With respect to zero tolerance rules, it isn't paranoia, it's knowledge.  Boomers know what we did when we were young, we don't want our kids doing it, and since we know what would have stopped us, we know how to stop them.  This is also why Millenial protesters end up being used as political pawns, rather than creating a self sustaining protest culture as the Boomers did in the 1960s.

The so called Patriot act didn't happen until Boomers were in the 40-60 age range and most parents were Gen X, so I wouldn't say that was mainly Boomer paranoia.  I strongly suspect that was the result of loss of the Silent ability to look at both sides of each story.  Boomers and Gen X politicians were more willing to tighten government control - and thus their own power - at the cost off individual rights, letting no crisis go to waste.

But you're willing to destroy lots of lives just so that you can feel safe. With the age of the internet, one blemish can ruin someone's entire life. It's like you're setting up a system where people aren't free to make mistakes.

What this system did to me (and I had several close calls that could have wrecked my life) is it made me able to think several steps ahead and plan things out to get them done behind backs. If you're not a group consensus person and you're in this era, you have no other choice but to be sneaky and manipulative while having a smile on your face and acting very good. The only other options are having group consensus swallow you whole since you'd be the lone protester, or doing things without thinking, just living life and having your life ruined. And if you go the complete risk averse route like many Millennials, you end up not getting anything done unless a bunch of people agree with you. I don't have time to wait for things to end. You have to be pragmatic now. I hate it when people are so afraid of taking a risk they would rather sit and ridicule the person trying to get something done while they themselves do nothing but wait for some giant consensus to magically appear. I don't know how you can be so patient to wait for something where by the time there's consensus, most of your life is already over. Or wait to react to something because they feel it's immature or that it's better just to live your life and somehow not care.

I don't think you can blame the internet on Boomers.  I mean, we've got one Boomer presidential candidate who thought it was a good idea to put classified information on an unsecured server, and another who doesn't use email at all.

I empathize with your difficult situation.  I'd suggest your best bet, since we haven't reached the first turning yet, is to join up with others who are open to a consensus that you are happy with and try to make that the first turning consensus, so it won't be completely unbearable to you.

[disasterzone]

(10-31-2016, 08:08 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 06:52 AM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 06:30 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

With respect to zero tolerance rules, it isn't paranoia, it's knowledge.  Boomers know what we did when we were young, we don't want our kids doing it, and since we know what would have stopped us, we know how to stop them.  This is also why Millenial protesters end up being used as political pawns, rather than creating a self sustaining protest culture as the Boomers did in the 1960s.

The so called Patriot act didn't happen until Boomers were in the 40-60 age range and most parents were Gen X, so I wouldn't say that was mainly Boomer paranoia.  I strongly suspect that was the result of loss of the Silent ability to look at both sides of each story.  Boomers and Gen X politicians were more willing to tighten government control - and thus their own power - at the cost off individual rights, letting no crisis go to waste.

But you're willing to destroy lots of lives just so that you can feel safe. With the age of the internet, one blemish can ruin someone's entire life. It's like you're setting up a system where people aren't free to make mistakes.

What this system did to me (and I had several close calls that could have wrecked my life) is it made me able to think several steps ahead and plan things out to get them done behind backs. If you're not a group consensus person and you're in this era, you have no other choice but to be sneaky and manipulative while having a smile on your face and acting very good. The only other options are having group consensus swallow you whole since you'd be the lone protester, or doing things without thinking, just living life and having your life ruined. And if you go the complete risk averse route like many Millennials, you end up not getting anything done unless a bunch of people agree with you. I don't have time to wait for things to end. You have to be pragmatic now. I hate it when people are so afraid of taking a risk they would rather sit and ridicule the person trying to get something done while they themselves do nothing but wait for some giant consensus to magically appear. I don't know how you can be so patient to wait for something where by the time there's consensus, most of your life is already over. Or wait to react to something because they feel it's immature or that it's better just to live your life and somehow not care.

I don't think you can blame the internet on Boomers.  I mean, we've got one Boomer presidential candidate who thought it was a good idea to put classified information on an unsecured server, and another who doesn't use email at all.

I empathize with your difficult situation.  I'd suggest your best bet, since we haven't reached the first turning yet, is to join up with others who are open to a consensus that you are happy with and try to make that the first turning consensus, so it won't be completely unbearable to you.

But not many people do agree with me. I'm reacting against all these trends thrust upon me, not only by Boomers but by my generation as well. What I'm planning to do is to make myself so strong and prepare myself so much that I can get my way and afford to go against the status quo. I'm always looking for an alternative or a way out and usually find it.

[Warren Dew]

Can you provide some examples of things where most people don't agree with you?

I'm not sure it's realistic to set yourself up to be strong enough to stand up to a government backed consensus.

[disasterzone]

(10-31-2016, 10:13 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: Can you provide some examples of things where most people don't agree with you?

I'm not sure it's realistic to set yourself up to be strong enough to stand up to a government backed consensus.

No but it is realistic to be sneaky and subversive to get what you want ..... all while looking like you're doing nothing until the structures do change. 
It's also realistic to look for all your other options that go against the prevailing trend. If mainstream society is going against what you want, look outside of mainstream.

[Warren Dew]

(10-31-2016, 03:19 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: To anyone who claims Boomers (at least the ones predisposed toward suburban living and parenthood) were / are not paranoid, I remind you of an indelible image that was seared into my young mind.

Picture an annoyingly conservatively driven Volvo station wagon, sporting a big yellow, diamond shaped "Baby On Board" sticker in its back window.

'nuff said.

Conservatives don't drive Volvos.  Those were Naderites.

A Conservative who had a "baby on board" sign would be driving a minivan. And they'd be warning you that meant they were likely to drive erratically due to the baby.

[Ragnarök_62]

(10-31-2016, 02:16 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 10:35 AM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 10:13 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: Can you provide some examples of things where most people don't agree with you?

I'm not sure it's realistic to set yourself up to be strong enough to stand up to a government backed consensus.

No but it is realistic to be sneaky and subversive to get what you want ..... all while looking like you're doing nothing until the structures do change. 
It's also realistic to look for all your other options that go against the prevailing trend. If mainstream society is going against what you want, look outside of mainstream.

You remind me of "decadeologist101" who was a millennial on the other original forum who felt like an outsider millennial.

No, Taramarie.   I know who disasterzone really is.

[Ragnarök_62]

(10-31-2016, 03:19 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: To anyone who claims Boomers (at least the ones predisposed toward suburban living and parenthood) were / are not paranoid, I remind you of an indelible image that was seared into my young mind.

Picture an annoyingly conservatively driven Volvo station wagon, sporting a big yellow, diamond shaped "Baby On Board" sticker in its back window.



'nuff said.

I've always pictured the annoying "Baby on Board" sticker as being on $UV's which belong to yuppies.

[Eric the Green]

Well, you probably got that right, according to William Strauss and Neil Howe, X_4AD_84 and Mr. Rags. In the article I first read on Generations back in 1991, in my local newspaper, no-one except them knew how the millennials would turn out, or how boomers would behave toward them. And about the only thing they could say about millennials in that article, in terms of actual trends so far, was to describe them as "today's 'baby on board' millennials". So they got the increasing protectiveness of the prophet boomer parents right, using the slogan you cited, AND invented the generation's name. Good one, X_4AD_84 and Ragi-poo.

[Eric the Green]

(10-31-2016, 06:30 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

With respect to zero tolerance rules, it isn't paranoia, it's knowledge.  Boomers know what we did when we were young, we don't want our kids doing it, and since we know what would have stopped us, we know how to stop them.  This is also why Millenial protesters end up being used as political pawns, rather than creating a self sustaining protest culture as the Boomers did in the 1960s.

It seems quite clear from the evidence, as the recent author described (don't remember who right now), that it is indeed paranoia. Crime has been low for 2 decades, and yet parents still act like it's 1984. And it wasn't even that bad then.

And most Boomers LIKE what they did when they were young, and many wish the good times were still going on. I sure do. And some got into trouble; no doubt, and I'm sure they want their children to be careful with drugs. But Millennials are not being used as political pawns. Those who supported Bernie Sanders were not pawns of Bernie Sanders. They supported him because they are smart and they know what's right.

Quote:The so called Patriot act didn't happen until Boomers were in the 40-60 age range and most parents were Gen X, so I wouldn't say that was mainly Boomer paranoia.  I strongly suspect that was the result of loss of the Silent ability to look at both sides of each story.  Boomers and Gen X politicians were more willing to tighten government control - and thus their own power - at the cost off individual rights, letting no crisis go to waste.

I quite agree with you there.

[Eric the Green]

(10-31-2016, 08:08 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 06:52 AM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 06:30 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

With respect to zero tolerance rules, it isn't paranoia, it's knowledge.  Boomers know what we did when we were young, we don't want our kids doing it, and since we know what would have stopped us, we know how to stop them.  This is also why Millenial protesters end up being used as political pawns, rather than creating a self sustaining protest culture as the Boomers did in the 1960s.

The so called Patriot act didn't happen until Boomers were in the 40-60 age range and most parents were Gen X, so I wouldn't say that was mainly Boomer paranoia.  I strongly suspect that was the result of loss of the Silent ability to look at both sides of each story.  Boomers and Gen X politicians were more willing to tighten government control - and thus their own power - at the cost off individual rights, letting no crisis go to waste.

But you're willing to destroy lots of lives just so that you can feel safe. With the age of the internet, one blemish can ruin someone's entire life. It's like you're setting up a system where people aren't free to make mistakes.

What this system did to me (and I had several close calls that could have wrecked my life) is it made me able to think several steps ahead and plan things out to get them done behind backs. If you're not a group consensus person and you're in this era, you have no other choice but to be sneaky and manipulative while having a smile on your face and acting very good. The only other options are having group consensus swallow you whole since you'd be the lone protester, or doing things without thinking, just living life and having your life ruined. And if you go the complete risk averse route like many Millennials, you end up not getting anything done unless a bunch of people agree with you. I don't have time to wait for things to end. You have to be pragmatic now. I hate it when people are so afraid of taking a risk they would rather sit and ridicule the person trying to get something done while they themselves do nothing but wait for some giant consensus to magically appear. I don't know how you can be so patient to wait for something where by the time there's consensus, most of your life is already over. Or wait to react to something because they feel it's immature or that it's better just to live your life and somehow not care.

I don't think you can blame the internet on Boomers.  I mean, we've got one Boomer presidential candidate who thought it was a good idea to put classified information on an unsecured server, and another who doesn't use email at all.

Hillary Rodham Clinton did not think "it was a good idea to put classified information on an unsecured server." She may have let a few through because they weren't properly marked, but that's all you can say so far. Just how some of the Clinton emails MAY have gotten on Anthony Weiner's laptop is quite a mystery. Abedin doesn't know. If I were a conspiracy theorist, and it's not even that far fetched, I would suggest that the Russians put them there.

Sorry, off the subject. I just don't like the Republican lies going unanswered.

[Warren Dew]

(11-01-2016, 12:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 06:30 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 11:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote: To create all these zero tolerance rules and have kids arrested for things they got to do when young. Also were deeply into things like the Patriot Act. Why do they panic so easily over things like school shootings and terrorism?

With respect to zero tolerance rules, it isn't paranoia, it's knowledge.  Boomers know what we did when we were young, we don't want our kids doing it, and since we know what would have stopped us, we know how to stop them.  This is also why Millenial protesters end up being used as political pawns, rather than creating a self sustaining protest culture as the Boomers did in the 1960s.

It seems quite clear from the evidence, as the recent author described (don't remember who right now), that it is indeed paranoia. Crime has been low for 2 decades, and yet parents still act like it's 1984. And it wasn't even that bad then.

The present trends are indeed paranoia, but the parents involved are generally not boomers.  Zero tolerance rules are older than helicoptering, and did start under boomer parents, but had to do with control of the children, not with paranoia, at least originally.

Quote:Hillary Rodham Clinton did not think "it was a good idea to put classified information on an unsecured server." She may have let a few through because they weren't properly marked, but that's all you can say so far. Just how some of the Clinton emails MAY have gotten on Anthony Weiner's laptop is quite a mystery. Abedin doesn't know. If I were a conspiracy theorist, and it's not even that far fetched, I would suggest that the Russians put them there.

Actually the classified emails were properly marked.  Clinton now claims she didn't recognize the markings since in email they were individual letters rather than the full word.

Abedin has said she rarely used Weiner's computer, which means she did use it on occasion.  Most likely what happened was that when she logged in to her email, the email application downloaded and cached all her recent emails - most email applications do that - even though she only looked at a few of them.