Good Girl's Revolt

[Bob Butler 54]

I'm not much of a TV watcher and seldom visit the Entertainment and Media folders.  I considered just putting this over in the political discussion section.  I'm posting this not because I'm particularly in love with the series, but out of interest in generation theory.

Amazon is streaming a series, "Good Girls Revolt".  It's a fictionalized account of events in the Newsweek newsrooms back in the 1960s.  At the time, males were reporters and females were researchers, sexism was rampant and taken for granted.  The primary long term conflict centers on the girls going to court to press for equality.  There is an abundance of opportunities for the various reporters and researchers, though, to visit the issues of the awakening.  I suspect most episodes will involve the cast investigating a story that explores one aspect or another of the awakening.

These forums feature a lot of Boomer Bashing.  I'll occasionally grumble about Xers and Millenials that dislike Boomer idealism and intensity.  My thesis is that they just don't understand the society the Boomers grew up in, the time when America was supposedly great, and the sexist and racist attitudes many find disturbing in Trump were openly and systematically practiced.  A lot of Blue Boomers were ticked by aspects of the 50s and 60s culture for good and appropriate reasons.  I can mention coat hanger abortions, live draft cards, black and white rest rooms and major cities totally lacking or having totally inadequate sewer treatment facilities.  Still, if you didn't live it, reading about it as abstract history doesn't give a true understanding of where the Blue Boomers came from and why they became what they became.  One has to have an imagination and spend some effort walking in someone else's shoes to get it.  Altogether too many members of the younger generations aren't bothering to go through any such effort.

I've just started into the series, but it seems to me that "Good Girls Revolt" removes the need to imagine at least.  It's a pretty good time warp.  I suspect any Boomer haters will also find a reason to hate the series.  Anything that forces one to stretch one's world view will be perceived of as being unpleasant, wrong, or otherwise not worth viewing.  Still, if you want a glimpse of the old 'deplorable' values operating unquestioned, blatantly, taken for granted, you might want to catch a few episodes.

[Odin]

Scratch a Boomer-Basher and you will fight a bitter aging conservative Xer or a Millennial who takes the new cultural norms the Boomers created for granted and/or wrongly conflates all Boomers with the BS of the Bush Jr. Era.

I have certainly never met a left-wing Xer who hates Boomers.

[disasterzone]

..........................................................

[disasterzone]

I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

[Odin]

(10-31-2016, 11:57 AM)disasterzone Wrote: I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

This is utter nonsense. Tara is right here, it is the Boomers who FOUGHT for people's right to be who they are. Nobody is "pushing" medications on young kids, that's plain anti-psychiatry BS from the usual crackpots who think ADHD and Depression is "made up".

[Odin]

(10-31-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 11:57 AM)disasterzone Wrote: I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

No they did not. They FOUGHT for those folk who were considered different. Fought for their rights and for them to be heard. They FOUGHT for individualism in the name of freedom because when they were kids anyone who was different was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens. I honestly do not know where you are getting this impression.

To be perfectly honest he seems like the classic "rebel without a clue" who never emotionally grew up. Like I said in the other thread, he wants to be the martyr against "evil" society.

[disasterzone]

(10-31-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 11:57 AM)disasterzone Wrote: I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

No they did not. They FOUGHT for those folk who were considered different. Fought for their rights and for them to be heard. They FOUGHT for individualism in the name of freedom because when they were kids anyone who was different was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens. I honestly do not know where you are getting this impression.

They did but they also created a generation who wants to bring back a time where different people are treated like second class citizens. The only difference is the types of differences they hate now. They fought for freedom and being themselves in the 60s and the 70s but they changed. I remember every other kid was prescribed ADHD meds if they were a bit hyper. The behavior standards for Millennials were so much higher than that for Boomers and they created a system where one mistake could ruin your life because of zero tolerance rules. The school system aimed to medicate every difference. Now there's a trend against that starting and I'm very glad it is.

[Warren Dew]

(10-31-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 11:57 AM)disasterzone Wrote: I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

No they did not. They FOUGHT for those folk who were considered different. Fought for their rights and for them to be heard. They FOUGHT for individualism in the name of freedom because when they were kids anyone who was different was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens. I honestly do not know where you are getting this impression.

Boomers fought for minority groups, emphasis on the groups.  That's very different from fighting for individualism.  When Boomers were kids, any kid who didn't wear the standard Boomer "protest" uniform of worn jeans and a tie dyed T shirt was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens, you got that right.  It was the squares who were given that treatment, though, not the protesters.

It's still the case that any "Blue Boomer" will attack black conservatives like Thomas Sowell with a passion, because they consider him to be a traitor to the cause just because he doesn't conform to their idea of what a black person should be like.

[Eric the Green]

(10-31-2016, 06:33 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 11:57 AM)disasterzone Wrote: I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

No they did not. They FOUGHT for those folk who were considered different. Fought for their rights and for them to be heard. They FOUGHT for individualism in the name of freedom because when they were kids anyone who was different was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens. I honestly do not know where you are getting this impression.

Boomers fought for minority groups, emphasis on the groups.  That's very different from fighting for individualism.  When Boomers were kids, any kid who didn't wear the standard Boomer "protest" uniform of worn jeans and a tie dyed T shirt was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens, you got that right.  It was the squares who were given that treatment, though, not the protesters.

I don't quite agree, at least for the core boomers. The hippie and protest styles came in when we were teenagers, and for some of us were very liberating. But I know boomers in youth could be haughty, and put those down who weren't in the in group-- although that may be true for other generations too. Millennials seem like accepting and collegial folks like they're supposed to be, but there's still bullying, and some millennials are sometimes temperamental and mean. Well, it always takes all kinds to make a whole generation. You have to take generalizing about generations with a grain or two of salt.

But for me, that difficult phase ended with the 2T began in the mid-sixties. After that, boomers were open and accepting and very friendly. It was peace and love time. The barriers dropped, and freedom reigned. That ended promptly with the 3T in 1984, when boomers went back to being haughty and arrogant. Although, on the other hand, in the 2T there was as much pressure to be hip and break through social barriers, as there was to conform in the 1T.

Quote:It's still the case that any "Blue Boomer" will attack black conservatives like Thomas Sowell with a passion, because they consider him to be a traitor to the cause just because he doesn't conform to their idea of what a black person should be like.

A black conservative is probably a traitor to the cause, because conservative policies today are often dog-whistles for racism, and are almost entirely about resentment against paying taxes to help poor people. Black conservatives may be resented by some liberals, along with white ones, because those policies are what's wrong with our country today, and this ideology affects everyone and everything negatively.

[Eric the Green]

(10-31-2016, 04:23 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 11:57 AM)disasterzone Wrote: I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

No they did not. They FOUGHT for those folk who were considered different. Fought for their rights and for them to be heard. They FOUGHT for individualism in the name of freedom because when they were kids anyone who was different was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens. I honestly do not know where you are getting this impression.

They did but they also created a generation who wants to bring back a time where different people are treated like second class citizens. The only difference is the types of differences they hate now. They fought for freedom and being themselves in the 60s and the 70s but they changed. I remember every other kid was prescribed ADHD meds if they were a bit hyper. The behavior standards for Millennials were so much higher than that for Boomers and they created a system where one mistake could ruin your life because of zero tolerance rules. The school system aimed to medicate every difference. Now there's a trend against that starting and I'm very glad it is.

Mr. Disaster Zone does not seem like he hates boomers for what they were as kids, as Warren is alluding to, or their youthful activism against the rigid and segregated world they grew up in, as Bob described. He is concerned about how boomers brought up their children. Like was mentioned on the other thread, there was an exaggerated fear of crime (which the Boomer candidate Trump wants to continue), which made for over-reactions such as disasterzone mentions. I also hope it's lessening, but it is part of the cycle described by Strauss and Howe.

[Odin]

(10-31-2016, 06:33 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 02:14 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-31-2016, 11:57 AM)disasterzone Wrote: I actually like intensity and idealism. I'm just angry that boomers did everything to stamp out individuality in their young and created a bunch of people intent on eliminating it, allowing no exceptions to the rules. I mean why else would they be so intent on forcing medications on kids or pushing children into large groups, trying to make them perfectly behave?  Now I'm stuck in this generation and there's nothing I can do about it but survive it until it's over.

No they did not. They FOUGHT for those folk who were considered different. Fought for their rights and for them to be heard. They FOUGHT for individualism in the name of freedom because when they were kids anyone who was different was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens. I honestly do not know where you are getting this impression.

Boomers fought for minority groups, emphasis on the groups.  That's very different from fighting for individualism.  When Boomers were kids, any kid who didn't wear the standard Boomer "protest" uniform of worn jeans and a tie dyed T shirt was shoved aside and treated like 2nd class citizens, you got that right.  It was the squares who were given that treatment, though, not the protesters.

It's still the case that any "Blue Boomer" will attack black conservatives like Thomas Sowell with a passion, because they consider him to be a traitor to the cause just because he doesn't conform to their idea of what a black person should be like.

Sowell is attacked because he is a right-wing nut who uses his race as a shield to defend himself from criticism.

[Odin]

(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: I have to agree with Disaster in one sense. It is true the Boomers fought for the freedom for their kids to have lots of choices about lifestyles, sexual identity, careers ... generally, they tried to make it so their kids would not face discrimination. But on the flip side, by being Helicopter Parents, they have raised up some fairly boring and risk averse people. So, in spite of trying to pave the path for permanent sustainability for the fruits of the 2T Social Revolution, they raised up a bunch of robots.

In my experience the helicoptering has been far more of an Xer parent thing (over-compensating for being neglected as kids) than a Boomer parent thing.

But I grew up in a working class rural area, which are some of the last places to be penetrated by social changes started by affluent college-educated urban people.

[Odin]

(11-01-2016, 02:32 PM)taramarie Wrote: We are probably boring because in comparison to other generations we are culturally dead. How can you compete with what has already been done? As for risk adverse that would also help to make us pretty boring in comparison but it is better than replaying the idiot decisions that some older folk have made. I have seen the consequences of what risk taking has done and like hell I would repeat it.

Yeah, my parents always jokingly told me about all the screw-ups they made because they didn't want me to repeat the same mistakes.

[disasterzone]

Why do Millennials laugh at passion though? Why is it so cool for them not to care? That's what I don't understand

[disasterzone]

(11-01-2016, 02:35 PM)taramarie Wrote: I mean I do not know if other generations call the American millies culturally dead. They certainly do here in NZ towards us millies. Rule desiring, culturally numb, dead and drawn to create things together and with it loosing individual creativity is the fear of older folk from my experience as a creative millennial being in a class of other fellow creative millennials.

For me, what made me risk taking was being blocked at every avenue because everything was made to be perfect. Everything was deemed too risky or too nonconventional to try and I failed whenever I tried to do things the "perfect" Millennial way. When I didn't I pushed forward. All the "safe" things in my life failed me and all the supposed experts had no answers and I had to find them myself.

I also observed what happens when you have people so paranoid and scared in your life that nothing happens and nothing moves forward. Sometimes people neglect to take risks so much that it's more of a risk in the end because no move is made and it's too late. I've seen what happens when people neglected to do anything because they thought everything was a "scam" or everything was out to get them and have long term outcomes suffer because they'd rather not take the risk and think you should just accept the hand life dealt you.

I don't understand why my generation seems to think that it's better to just accept a negative outcome than do unconventional and risky things to get out of something. It's like they want to wait for everything to be proven by 20 years before they even make a move. They have this sense of fatalism about them and think there's a lot of things that have no easy answer and can't be fixed. So they like to warn you and say you're never gonna do this or that. It's like they take joy and pleasure in discouragement.

[Emman85]

(11-01-2016, 02:32 PM)taramarie Wrote: We are probably boring because in comparison to other generations we are culturally dead. How can you compete with what has already been done? As for risk adverse that would also help to make us pretty boring in comparison but it is better than replaying the idiot decisions that some older folk have made. I have seen the consequences of what risk taking has done and like hell I would repeat it.

Do think you being ISFJ has anything to do with your attitude towards risk.

I think ISFJs are generally the most risk averse of all the types, their preference seems to be outward stability and predictability.

My own life as a INTP has been very scattered and exploratory, from wanting to be an artist/illustrator as a child, dropping out of high school to working security to joining the navy. Then studying such disparate subjects as Heating and Air, Graphic Design, and Culinary Arts. I still don't have any stability in my life.

[disasterzone]

(11-01-2016, 02:35 PM)taramarie Wrote: I mean I do not know if other generations call the American millies culturally dead. They certainly do here in NZ towards us millies. Rule desiring, culturally numb, dead and drawn to create things together and with it loosing individual creativity is the fear of older folk from my experience as a creative millennial being in a class of other fellow creative millennials.

The fear of older people actually made me more prepared to take on risk. Because I knew they would go ballistic and crazy at everything, it made me able to keep more secrets and get more things done myself. If something got out of control, I had to handle it behind the scenes to not face their reaction. So I learned to rebel and do things without people knowing. It also taught me how to calculate risks. Typically the risks were lower than they told me it would be.

[disasterzone]

(11-02-2016, 03:16 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-02-2016, 09:39 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 02:32 PM)taramarie Wrote: We are probably boring because in comparison to other generations we are culturally dead. How can you compete with what has already been done? As for risk adverse that would also help to make us pretty boring in comparison but it is better than replaying the idiot decisions that some older folk have made. I have seen the consequences of what risk taking has done and like hell I would repeat it.

Yeah, my parents always jokingly told me about all the screw-ups they made because they didn't want me to repeat the same mistakes.

My mother never did that. She told me her past and i observed her present actions and saw the screw ups and vowed never to do that.

Well they think everything's been done to the point they'd rather do nothing. Why is doing nothing preferable to something?

Also when something hasn't been done and you suggest it, they look at you like you're nuts and prefer to do things the "safe" way even if it will yield fewer returns. They seem to need tons of examples and tons of years of studies before attempting anything. Or they shoot down ideas and say people would have tried it if it worked or think it's not grounded in reality. It's like possibility, vision, and imagination are lost amongst them and they have such trust in the official institutions that they seem to think any alternative is quackery or crazy.

[Odin]

(11-03-2016, 10:13 AM)disasterzone Wrote:

(11-02-2016, 03:16 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-02-2016, 09:39 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 02:32 PM)taramarie Wrote: We are probably boring because in comparison to other generations we are culturally dead. How can you compete with what has already been done? As for risk adverse that would also help to make us pretty boring in comparison but it is better than replaying the idiot decisions that some older folk have made. I have seen the consequences of what risk taking has done and like hell I would repeat it.

Yeah, my parents always jokingly told me about all the screw-ups they made because they didn't want me to repeat the same mistakes.

My mother never did that. She told me her past and i observed her present actions and saw the screw ups and vowed never to do that.

Well they think everything's been done to the point they'd rather do nothing. Why is doing nothing preferable to something?

Also when something hasn't been done and you suggest it, they look at you like you're nuts and prefer to do things the "safe" way even if it will yield fewer returns. They seem to need tons of examples and tons of years of studies before attempting anything. Or they shoot down ideas and say people would have tried it if it worked or think it's not grounded in reality. It's like possibility, vision, and imagination are lost amongst them and they have such trust in the official institutions that they seem to think any alternative is quackery or crazy.

Or maybe they know that your idea is bonkers and BS and you are too thick-headed and self-absorbed to get the clue they are trying to give you because you think everyone is a dumb sheep?

Seriously, the problem isn't with other people, the problem is with you. Get a damn psychotherapist.

[Odin]

(11-03-2016, 03:04 PM)taramarie Wrote: I feel like you must be younger than me yet this is not the first time this older civic has been asked about our own generation. I cannot help but think this is amusing.

Ok, the answer...they are still figuring out the safest/tried and true strategy or alternative. This is why they love feedback from their friends on things they have tried that worked. It is someone trustworthy who says something yields positive results.

I think that answers all of the questions. Btw I also am guilty of doing years and years of study. I am in for a few more in fact first in advanced animation then film direction. I already have a few certs and a Bachelor degree. So I can answer this one too. For me, I tried to get out there and get work. But was told to get some work experience (which I am doing) and told to go back and get some more education. So I am doing that too now. As for ideas grounded in reality, if it does not sound like it will work it is a waste of time. As for the "safe" route I mentioned elsewhere why millies overall tend to prefer the safe route. They do not have the skills to deal with failure, strategy or mentally. It devastates them....more so if on their own. This is due to how they were raised. Nod to helicopter parenting. I know this from experience.

To be honest I think he has narcissism issues and thinks anyone who thinks that his shit don't stink is a "dumb mindless sheep". He's like an edgy teenager who never grew up, a grown up Holden Caufield who still thinks everyone around him is a "phony".