Trick or Treating Tradition Fading Away

[X_4AD_84]

What I mean by Trick or Treating is actual, real Trick or Treating, where people walk down the street, knocking on doors of people who appear to be participating. When I was a kid the participation rate was well over 90%.

Last night we only got single digits of people at our place. We are in a suburb. It's a bit woodsy but it's not a standoffish McMansion place where people are discouraged from access to front doors. We live in a mix of individually built houses ranging from Edwardian to recent. Front doors are easy to get to and we do have street lights.

The reason we only got a handful of trick or treaters is instead of doing traditional trick or treating, the parents all got together in one place with their kids and had a closed party (well, not formally closed, but the idea was, all these people get together and do a sort of lame trick or treat only with each other). It was very tribal - "we are the 'parents-with-elementary-aged-kids' tribe. We won't knock on doors of members of other tribes."

I predict that at least in our corner of the Bay Area, some of the Homies will never know traditional Trick or Treating, and, the next generation of kids won't know it at all.

[pbrower2a]

We saw the same here. The weather was good.

Maybe parents do not want their kids going to strangers' houses out of an old perception of danger -- some creep might insert a laxative into candy or a razor blade into an apple.  There are religious families who find Halloween objectionable due to allusions to the supernatural and non-Christian. Then there are rationalists who dislike the superstitious elements of Halloween. Or could it be the candy that creates health problems?

[Warren Dew]

For what it's worth, while my wife was out doing the rounds with the kids, about a dozen kids - all accompanied by parents, even the 12 year olds - came to our house in four groups.

That may not seem like a lot, but we live in a neighborhood with few kids. Most of the parents are older, probably X instead of Millenial.

Given taramarie's reaction, perhaps the Millenials are ending the tradition.

[Warren Dew]

I guess it depends on what you think of as "the" community. I can see the attractions of the "party" method for the parents who would rather interact just with the community of other parents and their kids, but that does exclude people who don't currently have kids, as X_4AD_84 points out.

[Warren Dew]

(11-01-2016, 11:43 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 11:40 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I guess it depends on what you think of as "the" community.  I can see the attractions of the "party" method for the parents who would rather interact just with the community of other parents and their kids, but that does exclude people who don't currently have kids, as X_4AD_84 points out.

I do not see why it should exclude them if they want to be part of a neighbour Halloween themed party and want to get to know their neighbours more.

How do they find out about it?  The parents can't invite them since they don't know them, and most likely the parties are organized by communication through the kids' schools anyway, thus omitting anyone without school aged kids from the invitation list.  Sure, they may be accepted if they show up, but it's hard to show up to a party one doesn't know about.

[Odin]

(11-01-2016, 12:43 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: What I mean by Trick or Treating is actual, real Trick or Treating, where people walk down the street, knocking on doors of people who appear to be participating. When I was a kid the participation rate was well over 90%.

Last night we only got single digits of people at our place. We are in a suburb. It's a bit woodsy but it's not a standoffish McMansion place where people are discouraged from access to front doors. We live in a mix of individually built houses ranging from Edwardian to recent. Front doors are easy to get to and we do have street lights.

The reason we only got a handful of trick or treaters is instead of doing traditional trick or treating, the parents all got together in one place with their kids and had a closed party (well, not formally closed, but the idea was, all these people get together and do a sort of lame trick or treat only with each other). It was very tribal - "we are the 'parents-with-elementary-aged-kids' tribe. We won't knock on doors of members of other tribes."

I predict that at least in our corner of the Bay Area, some of the Homies will never know traditional Trick or Treating, and, the next generation of kids won't know it at all.

A lot of residential areas are not designed to be pedestrian-friendly, anymore, especially when those pedestrians are little kids. Also, in many municipalities parents can get into legal trouble if their pre-teenage children are walking around town without adult supervision.

[Odin]

(11-01-2016, 03:37 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

But it's wiping out a tradition that goes back over 100 years. And it's exclusionary. Only the parents with kids are part of the tribe. Tribes like childless young, empty nesters, and others, are excluded. We sit with bowls of candy and almost no one knocks on the door. The pumpkin glows for no one. The more traditional way knit together the entire community in a way that this atomized, tribal methodology cannot.

I agree. Additionally, Halloween has it's roots in an old NW European tradition of leaving out offerings of food to appease the spirits of the dead, and it's sad seeing those ancient traditions linking us to the deep past disappear.

[David Horn]

(11-01-2016, 09:36 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: For what it's worth, while my wife was out doing the rounds with the kids, about a dozen kids - all accompanied by parents, even the 12 year olds - came to our house in four groups.

That may not seem like a lot, but we live in a neighborhood with few kids.  Most of the parents are older, probably X instead of Millenial.

Given taramarie's reaction, perhaps the Millenials are ending the tradition.

Where I live, a flyer goes out about a week before "the event", and you can sign-up for trick-or-treaters.  If you sign-up, and leave a light on, a few will come by.

This year, "Halloween" was scheduled for Saturday, October 29th, "for convenience".  It's all just too sanitary to be the real thing.

[David Horn]

(11-02-2016, 09:16 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 03:37 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

But it's wiping out a tradition that goes back over 100 years. And it's exclusionary. Only the parents with kids are part of the tribe. Tribes like childless young, empty nesters, and others, are excluded. We sit with bowls of candy and almost no one knocks on the door. The pumpkin glows for no one. The more traditional way knit together the entire community in a way that this atomized, tribal methodology cannot.

I agree. Additionally, Halloween has it's roots in an old NW European tradition of leaving out offerings of food to appease the spirits of the dead, and it's sad seeing those ancient traditions linking us to the deep past disappear.

Modern life is decoupling us from old traditions at a blinding rate.  Halloween is just one example of many.  I doubt Thanksgiving will survive as the traditional extended family celebration much longer ... if it is at this point.  A lot of families eat-out, go to movies, or just binge watch football.

[disasterzone]

(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

I don't see what's wrong with kids getting free candy for halloween. It's part of the fun.
I don't see the same in "mooching".

[Odin]

(11-02-2016, 01:13 PM)David Horn Wrote: This year, "Halloween" was scheduled for Saturday, October 29th, "for convenience".

Gross!!!

[Odin]

(11-02-2016, 04:14 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: In the case of our neighborhood the "parents-with-primary-school/pre-school-kids" tribe have their own little social network they used to invite other tribe members to their quasi-exclusive block party, held a couple of blocks from our house. They purposely made it exclusive and have no intention to invite the overall neighborhood. Of course I have my intel sources so in spite of not getting the word via the private social network, I still found out. It's been this way the past 3 - 4 years. Prior to that, things were normal. Along with some other comments here, I attribute the shift to a newer, younger group of parents - a mixture of younger Nintendo Xers and older Millies. They are so into the tribe thing. They have no concept of an overarching geographically defined community. In spite of many expressed "liberal" sentiments about diversity and inclusion, when it comes down to it, they like their tribe of a narrow range of cohort and residential living arrangements. They have purposely excluded, without being explicit about it, anyone who is not of their tribe.

I blame this on the current political polarization. People are voluntarily segregating themselves in order to limit exposure to people who disagree with them.

[Warren Dew]

(11-03-2016, 07:27 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-02-2016, 04:14 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: In the case of our neighborhood the "parents-with-primary-school/pre-school-kids" tribe have their own little social network they used to invite other tribe members to their quasi-exclusive block party, held a couple of blocks from our house. They purposely made it exclusive and have no intention to invite the overall neighborhood. Of course I have my intel sources so in spite of not getting the word via the private social network, I still found out. It's been this way the past 3 - 4 years. Prior to that, things were normal. Along with some other comments here, I attribute the shift to a newer, younger group of parents - a mixture of younger Nintendo Xers and older Millies. They are so into the tribe thing. They have no concept of an overarching geographically defined community. In spite of many expressed "liberal" sentiments about diversity and inclusion, when it comes down to it, they like their tribe of a narrow range of cohort and residential living arrangements. They have purposely excluded, without being explicit about it, anyone who is not of their tribe.

I blame this on the current political polarization. People are voluntarily segregating themselves in order to limit exposure to people who disagree with them.

It isn't political, though.  Our school has both Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and things like that still involve all the families who have kids in the relevant classes, irrespective of political leaning.  If anything, we catch a bit of flak from the school about our daughter being friends mostly with a specific set of other girls - not sorted by political leaning as far as I know - rather than being "friends" with everyone.

[The Wonkette]

(11-01-2016, 12:43 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: What I mean by Trick or Treating is actual, real Trick or Treating, where people walk down the street, knocking on doors of people who appear to be participating. When I was a kid the participation rate was well over 90%.

Last night we only got single digits of people at our place. We are in a suburb. It's a bit woodsy but it's not a standoffish McMansion place where people are discouraged from access to front doors. We live in a mix of individually built houses ranging from Edwardian to recent. Front doors are easy to get to and we do have street lights.

The reason we only got a handful of trick or treaters is instead of doing traditional trick or treating, the parents all got together in one place with their kids and had a closed party (well, not formally closed, but the idea was, all these people get together and do a sort of lame trick or treat only with each other). It was very tribal - "we are the 'parents-with-elementary-aged-kids' tribe. We won't knock on doors of members of other tribes."

I predict that at least in our corner of the Bay Area, some of the Homies will never know traditional Trick or Treating, and, the next generation of kids won't know it at all.

Trick or treating was very much alive in my neighborhood. We had hordes of children; tiny tots with their parents and groups of giggling 13-year-olds alone. We know we had at least 100 children (and almost as many adults). My fiancé and I joined our neighbors in bringing lawn chairs onto our front yards, having gops of candy, and drinking wine/pumpkin ale while the kids flocked to our little corner.

I participate in a neighborhood Facebook group. One resident actually kept track and ended up with 220 children! I don't think we had THAT many, but it could have been as high as 150.

They started coming as soon as the clock struck 6:00 pm. By 8:00 pm, it had petered out. My neighbors were still partying, but my fiancé and I were both getting chilly, plus Dancing with the Stars was on. I head that few kids came out between 8:00 and 8:30.

[Kinser79]

I think the problem with "Trick-or-Treat"ing is that it really isn't a tradition that has deep roots. Indeed it was mostly a creation of post-war suburbia. The conditions that fostered that have faded away and it really can't survive outside of that environment so it must fade away.

What is telling though is that the Halloween party has made a come back in a big way, including those that involve children.

[Tim Randal Walker]

Sometimes I think that I was lucky to have been born when I was. When I was a kid I was able to enjoy the old style Halloween fun.

[Kinser79]

I find it hilarious that someone would call a "tradition" that didn't exist before the early twentieth century is "old style" Halloween fun.