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Trick or Treating Tradition Fading Away
#1
What I mean by Trick or Treating is actual, real Trick or Treating, where people walk down the street, knocking on doors of people who appear to be participating. When I was a kid the participation rate was well over 90%.

Last night we only got single digits of people at our place. We are in a suburb. It's a bit woodsy but it's not a standoffish McMansion place where people are discouraged from access to front doors. We live in a mix of individually built houses ranging from Edwardian to recent. Front doors are easy to get to and we do have street lights.

The reason we only got a handful of trick or treaters is instead of doing traditional trick or treating, the parents all got together in one place with their kids and had a closed party (well, not formally closed, but the idea was, all these people get together and do a sort of lame trick or treat only with each other). It was very tribal - "we are the 'parents-with-elementary-aged-kids' tribe. We won't knock on doors of members of other tribes."

I predict that at least in our corner of the Bay Area, some of the Homies will never know traditional Trick or Treating, and, the next generation of kids won't know it at all.

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#2
We saw the same here. The weather was good.

Maybe parents do not want their kids going to strangers' houses out of an old perception of danger -- some creep might insert a laxative into candy or a razor blade into an apple.  There are religious families who find Halloween objectionable due to allusions to the supernatural and non-Christian. Then there are rationalists who dislike the superstitious elements of Halloween. Or could it be the candy that creates health problems?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#3
I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#4
(11-01-2016, 03:37 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

But it's wiping out a tradition that goes back over 100 years. And it's exclusionary. Only the parents with kids are part of the tribe. Tribes like childless young, empty nesters, and others, are excluded. We sit with bowls of candy and almost no one knocks on the door. The pumpkin glows for no one. The more traditional way knit together the entire community in a way that this atomized, tribal methodology cannot.

Wiping out a tradition? So what? Well those who want to be included should get together with those they have some commonality with. I did not say you were going to like my opinion but it is mine and i like the idea. Preferably more inclusive yes, but if not get with others that you have more in common with if they are not including them. Did they say it was for parents with kids only? If not then they are not excluded.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#5
For what it's worth, while my wife was out doing the rounds with the kids, about a dozen kids - all accompanied by parents, even the 12 year olds - came to our house in four groups.

That may not seem like a lot, but we live in a neighborhood with few kids. Most of the parents are older, probably X instead of Millenial.

Given taramarie's reaction, perhaps the Millenials are ending the tradition.
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#6
(11-01-2016, 09:36 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: For what it's worth, while my wife was out doing the rounds with the kids, about a dozen kids - all accompanied by parents, even the 12 year olds - came to our house in four groups.

That may not seem like a lot, but we live in a neighborhood with few kids.  Most of the parents are older, probably X instead of Millenial.

Given taramarie's reaction, perhaps the Millenials are ending the tradition.

Well I do not know about that. Remember I am yes a millennial but I am a foreigner. But personally I do like the idea of the community coming together for a party (preferably one that includes all) or even two (one that is strictly for adults (serves alcohol, etc) as well as one that is kid friendly). It keeps the kids safer, it is much more community orientated rather than going round looking for candy. Meaning you can actually have a genuine get together and spend time with everyone for something other than just going round looking for sweets. Dress up and candy will still be a thing and maybe they could have competitions and candy themed fun for the kids that everyone will get to see and be part of. I see an upgrade more than anything here. It sounds way more fun to me. Horror themed music playing in the background. Yeah awesome! This is just one foreign millennial's personal opinion though.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#7
I guess it depends on what you think of as "the" community. I can see the attractions of the "party" method for the parents who would rather interact just with the community of other parents and their kids, but that does exclude people who don't currently have kids, as X_4AD_84 points out.
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#8
(11-01-2016, 11:40 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I guess it depends on what you think of as "the" community.  I can see the attractions of the "party" method for the parents who would rather interact just with the community of other parents and their kids, but that does exclude people who don't currently have kids, as X_4AD_84 points out.

I do not see why it should exclude them if they want to be part of a neighbour Halloween themed party and want to get to know their neighbours more.
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#9
(11-01-2016, 11:43 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 11:40 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I guess it depends on what you think of as "the" community.  I can see the attractions of the "party" method for the parents who would rather interact just with the community of other parents and their kids, but that does exclude people who don't currently have kids, as X_4AD_84 points out.

I do not see why it should exclude them if they want to be part of a neighbour Halloween themed party and want to get to know their neighbours more.

How do they find out about it?  The parents can't invite them since they don't know them, and most likely the parties are organized by communication through the kids' schools anyway, thus omitting anyone without school aged kids from the invitation list.  Sure, they may be accepted if they show up, but it's hard to show up to a party one doesn't know about.
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#10
(11-01-2016, 11:59 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 11:43 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 11:40 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I guess it depends on what you think of as "the" community.  I can see the attractions of the "party" method for the parents who would rather interact just with the community of other parents and their kids, but that does exclude people who don't currently have kids, as X_4AD_84 points out.

I do not see why it should exclude them if they want to be part of a neighbour Halloween themed party and want to get to know their neighbours more.

How do they find out about it?  The parents can't invite them since they don't know them, and most likely the parties are organized by communication through the kids' schools anyway, thus omitting anyone without school aged kids from the invitation list.  Sure, they may be accepted if they show up, but it's hard to show up to a party one doesn't know about.

The same way that we do here when we have a neighbourhood party. Fliers in mailboxes. Here in NZ we also have online communities for each suburb called "Neighbourly." That is also how news gets out. Update messages get sent to your email. You can also be part of wider community news on pages through fb too.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#11
How else do you think us millennials managed to clean up the wider community and help out random strangers in distress during our massive earthquake episode that lasted over a year (many large earthquakes). We organized ourselves online through a simple fb page.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#12
(11-01-2016, 12:43 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: What I mean by Trick or Treating is actual, real Trick or Treating, where people walk down the street, knocking on doors of people who appear to be participating. When I was a kid the participation rate was well over 90%.

Last night we only got single digits of people at our place. We are in a suburb. It's a bit woodsy but it's not a standoffish McMansion place where people are discouraged from access to front doors. We live in a mix of individually built houses ranging from Edwardian to recent. Front doors are easy to get to and we do have street lights.

The reason we only got a handful of trick or treaters is instead of doing traditional trick or treating, the parents all got together in one place with their kids and had a closed party (well, not formally closed, but the idea was, all these people get together and do a sort of lame trick or treat only with each other). It was very tribal - "we are the 'parents-with-elementary-aged-kids' tribe. We won't knock on doors of members of other tribes."

I predict that at least in our corner of the Bay Area, some of the Homies will never know traditional Trick or Treating, and, the next generation of kids won't know it at all.

A lot of residential areas are not designed to be pedestrian-friendly, anymore, especially when those pedestrians are little kids. Also, in many municipalities parents can get into legal trouble if their pre-teenage children are walking around town without adult supervision.
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#13
(11-01-2016, 03:37 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

But it's wiping out a tradition that goes back over 100 years. And it's exclusionary. Only the parents with kids are part of the tribe. Tribes like childless young, empty nesters, and others, are excluded. We sit with bowls of candy and almost no one knocks on the door. The pumpkin glows for no one. The more traditional way knit together the entire community in a way that this atomized, tribal methodology cannot.

I agree. Additionally, Halloween has it's roots in an old NW European tradition of leaving out offerings of food to appease the spirits of the dead, and it's sad seeing those ancient traditions linking us to the deep past disappear. Sad
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#14
(11-01-2016, 09:36 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: For what it's worth, while my wife was out doing the rounds with the kids, about a dozen kids - all accompanied by parents, even the 12 year olds - came to our house in four groups.

That may not seem like a lot, but we live in a neighborhood with few kids.  Most of the parents are older, probably X instead of Millenial.

Given taramarie's reaction, perhaps the Millenials are ending the tradition.

Where I live, a flyer goes out about a week before "the event", and you can sign-up for trick-or-treaters.  If you sign-up, and leave a light on, a few will come by.

This year, "Halloween" was scheduled for Saturday, October 29th, "for convenience".  It's all just too sanitary to be the real thing.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#15
(11-02-2016, 09:16 AM)Odin Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 03:37 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

But it's wiping out a tradition that goes back over 100 years. And it's exclusionary. Only the parents with kids are part of the tribe. Tribes like childless young, empty nesters, and others, are excluded. We sit with bowls of candy and almost no one knocks on the door. The pumpkin glows for no one. The more traditional way knit together the entire community in a way that this atomized, tribal methodology cannot.

I agree. Additionally, Halloween has it's roots in an old NW European tradition of leaving out offerings of food to appease the spirits of the dead, and it's sad seeing those ancient traditions linking us to the deep past disappear. Sad

Modern life is decoupling us from old traditions at a blinding rate.  Halloween is just one example of many.  I doubt Thanksgiving will survive as the traditional extended family celebration much longer ... if it is at this point.  A lot of families eat-out, go to movies, or just binge watch football.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#16
(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

I don't see what's wrong with kids getting free candy for halloween. It's part of the fun.
I don't see the same in "mooching".
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#17
(11-02-2016, 02:36 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(11-01-2016, 02:26 PM)taramarie Wrote: I like the sound of the party much more. Get together with the community and spend more time with them than just mooching for sweets. Actually spending time with parents and the kids together and getting to know each other more. Nice. I see nothing wrong there.

I don't see what's wrong with kids getting free candy for halloween. It's part of the fun.
I don't see the same in "mooching".

Neither but trick or treating just seems to focus on just getting the sweets. It should be more than that and the party idea would include free sweets for the kids as well as be in a more inclusive and fun environment with games and socializing and music etc. I see an upgrade here.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#18
Does not mean that there can never be an inclusive party. There have been open parties here and I am sure America experiences them too. I think if this is the wave of the future, people lamenting a dying tradition are in for a hard time.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#19
(11-02-2016, 01:13 PM)David Horn Wrote: This year, "Halloween" was scheduled for Saturday, October 29th, "for convenience".

Gross!!! Angry
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#20
(11-02-2016, 04:14 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: In the case of our neighborhood the "parents-with-primary-school/pre-school-kids" tribe have their own little social network they used to invite other tribe members to their quasi-exclusive block party, held a couple of blocks from our house. They purposely made it exclusive and have no intention to invite the overall neighborhood. Of course I have my intel sources so in spite of not getting the word via the private social network, I still found out. It's been this way the past 3 - 4 years. Prior to that, things were normal. Along with some other comments here, I attribute the shift to a newer, younger group of parents - a mixture of younger Nintendo Xers and older Millies. They are so into the tribe thing. They have no concept of an overarching geographically defined community. In spite of many expressed "liberal" sentiments about diversity and inclusion, when it comes down to it, they like their tribe of a narrow range of cohort and residential living arrangements. They have purposely excluded, without being explicit about it, anyone who is not of their tribe.

I blame this on the current political polarization. People are voluntarily segregating themselves in order to limit exposure to people who disagree with them.
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