Still-powerful Silents

[Hintergrund]

OK, I want to make a list of them. Examples:

Politics:
Nancy Pelosi
(I would have added Jerry Brown, but he stepped back last month.)

Economy:
Warren Buffett

Culture:
Woody Allen

Theoretically, we're one decade into the Crisis, but those Artists are still alive and powerful. You know how Artists prefer diversity, expertise, complications? If they weren't in power, we probably would have seen simplification of laws, kicking out "experts" who failed to stop the Crisis, and a more successful nativist backlash.

But the powerful Silents are still around, and since they know best how to pull the levers of the machine, they prevent all of that. The Crisis is there, but we try to use dangerous post-seasonal Unraveling tools.

For a long time I wondered why the Unraveling didn't really seem to end. In the Financial Crisis, we rather should have made something like Glass-Steagall, to simplify things - but we didn't. That's why we seem to live in a combination of the worst parts of Unraveling and Crisis. People are worse off, but they don't gather and unite, and are even less willing to sacrifice for society.

[Bill the Piper]

David Attenborough, Queen Elizabeth II, George Soros, Noam Chomsky. Cannot think of many more.

Still, I don't think Silents matter that much in 2019. The main issue of this Crisis is the strong political polarisation of societies: Democrats vs Republicans in the US, Remainers vs Brexiteers in the UK. France, Italy and Poland are also strongly polarised. This state of affairs is caused by Boomers' culture wars. If anything, the few Silents who are still active can only mitigate the Boomers' fanaticism on both sides.

It might be that we're still in some ways still in Unravelling mood because the Crisis wasn't harsh enough. Millennials didn't have opportunity to build up their civic muscles on the battlefield.

[Hintergrund]

Bill, keep in mind that the Silents are less conspicious than the Boomers with their ideological crusades. With their billions and their knowledge, they know how to do lobbyism and keep their fortunes. (And for that, complicated laws with lots of loopholes help!) While hypocritically crying how they're eating up the future of the younger, and pay a lower tax rate than their secretaries.

I checked the list of US billionaires on WP. Result: 5 Silents of the top 15, 16 of 36 (10 to 40 Billion $), 34 of 109 (4 to 10 billions).

Most prominent names:

Rupert Murdoch
Ross Perot
The Koch brothers (both of them)
Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)
Sheldon Adelson
Charles Schwab
Carl Icahn
Ralph Lauren

Mitch McConnell
Lamar Alexander
Dianne Feinstein

Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Steny Hoyer
Maxine Waters

[Hintergrund]

The current pope (if the theory works in Argentine as in the US)
The Dalai Lama
Madeleine Albright (I had mistakenly thought Kissinger was a bit younger, which would make him a Silent too, but he isn't. But since I became curious, I checked the other Secretaries of State: Besides Albright, we have James Baker, Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, and Colin Powell. Sixteen years only - felt like more.)

Sean Connery
Clint Eastwood
Morgan Freeman
Dustin Hoffman
Jack Nicholson
Al Pacino

[Eric the Green]

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

[Eric the Green]

(02-18-2019, 01:35 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: The current pope (if the theory works in Argentine as in the US)
The Dalai Lama
Madeleine Albright (I had mistakenly thought Kissinger was a bit younger, which would make him a Silent too, but he isn't. But since I became curious, I checked the other Secretaries of State: Besides Albright, we have James Baker, Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, and Colin Powell. Sixteen years only - felt like more.)

Sean Connery
Clint Eastwood
Morgan Freeman
Dustin Hoffman
Jack Nicholson
Al Pacino

Robert Redford

He officially "retired" but so did Sean.

[Marypoza]

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

[Bill the Piper]

(02-18-2019, 01:35 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: The current pope (if the theory works in Argentine as in the US)

Most Popes were super-elders:

John Paul II (GI) was the pope during the almost entire 3T.
Paul VI (Lost) during the 2T.
Pius XII and John XXIII (Missionary) during the 1T.
Pius XI (Progressive) during the previous 4T until he died in 1939.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes

Maybe the Church intuitively realised the nature of the generational cycle and the need for super-elders to mitigate the worst aspects of turnings?

[David Horn]

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

I don't know.  Bernie had, and still has, an inspiring message.  What he lacks is the intrinsic connectiveness that links together coalitions.  He may well have defeated DJT in 2016, since anyone was likely to be better than Hillary.  Where I'm less certain is the results that would have been achieved by his win.

I see him more in the vein of a Benjamin Franklin -- bellwether to the end.

[Eric the Green]

(02-19-2019, 11:18 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

I don't know.  Bernie had, and still has, an inspiring message.  What he lacks is the intrinsic connectiveness that links together coalitions.  He may well have defeated DJT in 2016, since anyone was likely to be better than Hillary.  Where I'm less certain is the results that would have been achieved by his win.

I see him more in the vein of a Benjamin Franklin -- bellwether to the end.

Probably.

I would say, he has an inspiring message. He can work with others, but I don't know about coalitions. The extremists were mad at him for endorsing Hillary Clinton.

I think Hillary was no worse a choice in 2016 than most of the candidates so-far announced for 2020 are. Any of them except Sanders would have lost in 2016, and will likely lose if nominated in 2020. Hillary came close to winning, don't forget. She was cheated out of it, basically, as well as being a weak candidate. Whether Bernie can beat Trump in 2020 either is a crapshoot, though. Anti-socialist slogans still have a lot of resonance with non-liberals. Campaign and candidate talent is what counts the most in the election. I posted what I thought his chances are in the states.

Bernie cannot likely achieve much of his program, at least not right away. But that's true with most presidents. American voters seem not to be very well-informed civically, and many forget there are three branches of government, and that electing a president does not necessarily get you a congress of the same mind, especially if you don't vote in mid-terms, and supreme court appointments don't come along that often.

[Eric the Green]

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

No, Bernie wasn't cheated. He lost. The DNC doesn't have the power to shift a 15% voting gap.

[Marypoza]

(02-19-2019, 04:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

No, Bernie wasn't cheated. He lost. The DNC doesn't have the power to shift a 15% voting gap.

-- nah their operatives just purged voter rolls in precincts favorable to Bernie. Whited out his name on paper ballots, & flipped his electronic votes
The DNC even defended it, claiming they had the right to fix the primaries so their annointed one wins if that's the case, then why even hold primaries? Go back 2 the smoke filled rooms

[Marypoza]

It's official: Bernie's running again!
this is the Silents last gasp chance 4 a Prez. He's considrred a frontrunner & he has raised $4 million in as many hours. Total of $6 mil his 1st official day. Can he bcome the Silents 1st & only Prez?

[Marypoza]

(02-19-2019, 11:18 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

I don't know.  Bernie had, and still has, an inspiring message.  What he lacks is the intrinsic connectiveness that links together coalitions.  He may well have defeated DJT in 2016, since anyone was likely to be better than Hillary.  Where I'm less certain is the results that would have been achieved by his win.

I see him more in the vein of a Benjamin Franklin -- bellwether to the end.

-- true. I once suggested Bernie could be a Grey Champion but others here quashed that idea once it was obvious he had been screwed out of the nomination, stating that if he was the GC he would of won despite all the cheating. But Benjamin Franklin was never Prez. GCs don't have 2 be Prez. Just somebody with an inspiring msg, a vision & plan 4 the next 1T

[David Horn]

(02-19-2019, 04:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

No, Bernie wasn't cheated. He lost. The DNC doesn't have the power to shift a 15% voting gap.

I have to agree with Maryposa.  Sanders was running high hurdles while Hillary had the sprint lane.  She also had the super-delegates, which was an impossible burden to overcome.  Bernie's chief fault was not working the party apparatus for support.  Hillary got most of the power-Dems by default.  Then again, the party had decided on Hillary, since BHO had pushed her aside in 2008.  It would have taken a miracle for anyone to overcome that, and Bernie, as Democratic Socialist, was an unlikely miracle worker.

[Marypoza]

(02-20-2019, 03:48 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-19-2019, 04:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

No, Bernie wasn't cheated. He lost. The DNC doesn't have the power to shift a 15% voting gap.

I have to agree with Maryposa.  Sanders was running high hurdles while Hillary had the sprint lane.  She also had the super-delegates, which was an impossible burden to overcome.  Bernie's chief fault was not working the party apparatus for support.  Hillary got most of the power-Dems by default.  Then again, the party had decided on Hillary, since BHO had pushed her aside in 2008.  It would have taken a miracle for anyone to overcome that, and Bernie, as Democratic Socialist, was an unlikely miracle worker.

-- well Bernie already has 1 Senatorial endorsement. True it's fellow Senator from VT, but actually that's important 2 have your fellow homeboy backing you. Merkeley from OR endorsed him last time. Dunno if he is this time

[Eric the Green]

(02-20-2019, 03:48 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-19-2019, 04:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 10:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: Michael Bloomberg (if the Silents still want a POTUS, he might be their last chance)

Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

No, Bernie wasn't cheated. He lost. The DNC doesn't have the power to shift a 15% voting gap.

I have to agree with Maryposa.  Sanders was running high hurdles while Hillary had the sprint lane.  She also had the super-delegates, which was an impossible burden to overcome.  Bernie's chief fault was not working the party apparatus for support.  Hillary got most of the power-Dems by default.  Then again, the party had decided on Hillary, since BHO had pushed her aside in 2008.  It would have taken a miracle for anyone to overcome that, and Bernie, as Democratic Socialist, was an unlikely miracle worker.

I don't think the fact that the powers in the party were behind Hillary caused the 15% voting gap. The party and the super delegates do not choose the nominee; the voters do. The superdelegates go along with whoever wins the primary votes, as they did in 2008. But Hillary didn't need them to win. Especially minorities voters, but also those in the larger states, were familiar with Hillary and respected her support in the past. Resentment against those who "screwed over Bernie" could be an unnecessary hurdle to removing Trump in 2020.

[Marypoza]

(02-20-2019, 10:05 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-20-2019, 03:48 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-19-2019, 04:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-18-2019, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Uh, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are better bets.

- Bernie would of made it in 2016 if he hadn't been cheated. Will they screw him over in 2020 as well? Maybe Uncle Joe. The DNC will probably feel they owe it 2 him

No, Bernie wasn't cheated. He lost. The DNC doesn't have the power to shift a 15% voting gap.

I have to agree with Maryposa.  Sanders was running high hurdles while Hillary had the sprint lane.  She also had the super-delegates, which was an impossible burden to overcome.  Bernie's chief fault was not working the party apparatus for support.  Hillary got most of the power-Dems by default.  Then again, the party had decided on Hillary, since BHO had pushed her aside in 2008.  It would have taken a miracle for anyone to overcome that, and Bernie, as Democratic Socialist, was an unlikely miracle worker.

I don't think the fact that the powers in the party were behind Hillary caused the 15% voting gap. The party and the super delegates do not choose the nominee; the voters do. The superdelegates go along with whoever wins the primary votes, as they did in 2008. 

-- yeah right. Like the superds who refused 2 back Bernie after he won their states. Such as Al "my judgement is better than yours" Franken. That from a dude whose signature routine is a hare krishna devotee getting his ponytail cut off

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-IKC5Be3fuM

[Hintergrund]

Back to topic!

[gabrielle]

(03-01-2019, 07:48 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: Back to topic!

Martin Scorsese
Margaret Atwood
Dame Maggie Smith
Joan Didion