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skipped an archetype like time before last?
(05-02-2019, 04:12 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 09:56 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: Letter designations:   I = Idealist,  N = Nomadic, C = Civic, A = Artist.

I feel that "Nomadic" better describes the character of such a generation than "Reactive".

Based on kinsers comments:

Boomers-I, with some N tendencies.

Pong wave-the Boomer/Xer cusp.

Xers-classic Nomads.

Xennials-the Xer/Millie cusp.

Millenials-C, with N tendencies.

Generation Z-Artist?



If the Millies were to take on a pseudo-Artist role, I would imagine them as this-A in practice, with C and N tendencies.

Zeds will be A with strong N tendencies just like Millenials are C with strong N tendencies and Boomers I with strong N tendencies.

This is due to the mega-unraveling which has lasted the whole saeculum.  That is why many people seem to think the current 4T is so 3T like.

Didn't the Missionary and GI Generation in America also have what you see as Nomad tendencies? How are the Boomers different from the Missionaries and the Millennials different from the GIs in the US at least? Because I sense all of this is due to American culture, not a mega 3T. I know you say that there is no one American culture but the culture of wanting freedom, gun rights, and fighting against authority is very American no matter what the ethnicity. Also if you notice, the last 4T was also politically divided.
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(05-02-2019, 04:06 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:39 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:09 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: A possibility that S & H suggested was that the 4T might be primarily economic, and that Millies might become a mighty work force.  I can sort of see that.  If there is an emphasis on improving the prospects of younger generations.

A weaker version of the Hero role, I think, compared to the Republican or G.I. generations.  Millies may become a water color version of a Civic generation, rather than an oil paint version.

This 4T started early in 2001. This 4T is a mix of many issues at once so it's pretty confusing and adding to the fact that it's far less intense than the last one but also far longer. The 4T lasting until 2028 or 2029 means a 27 or 28 year 4T which would cause a lot of malaise and also a different version of a 1T.

I think you'll find that the hypothesis that the 4T started in 2001 early has been largely dismissed.  That said, I think it started in the 2005-2007 range.  Of course being from the South I think Katrina rather than 9-11 was the major event that showed that the system was unrepairably broken. Before then people could easily argue we could tinker here and tinker there and fix most things.

After Big K and Nawlens Drowning not so much.

The reason I think it's 2001 is because it's largely the event people talk about which changed the course of America. It's the event people talk about "Where were you on 9/11" just like people talked about "Where were you when JFK was assassinated?" The JFK assassination ushered in the 2T just like 9/11 ushered in the 3T. You have to remember that some people were hopeful even in 1929 but that had later vanished. 9/11 took away people's sense of safety and was a loss of innocence.
Reply
(05-02-2019, 05:31 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 04:06 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:39 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:09 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: A possibility that S & H suggested was that the 4T might be primarily economic, and that Millies might become a mighty work force.  I can sort of see that.  If there is an emphasis on improving the prospects of younger generations.

A weaker version of the Hero role, I think, compared to the Republican or G.I. generations.  Millies may become a water color version of a Civic generation, rather than an oil paint version.

This 4T started early in 2001. This 4T is a mix of many issues at once so it's pretty confusing and adding to the fact that it's far less intense than the last one but also far longer. The 4T lasting until 2028 or 2029 means a 27 or 28 year 4T which would cause a lot of malaise and also a different version of a 1T.

I think you'll find that the hypothesis that the 4T started in 2001 early has been largely dismissed.  That said, I think it started in the 2005-2007 range.  Of course being from the South I think Katrina rather than 9-11 was the major event that showed that the system was unrepairably broken. Before then people could easily argue we could tinker here and tinker there and fix most things.

After Big K and Nawlens Drowning not so much.

The reason I think it's 2001 is because it's largely the event people talk about which changed the course of America. It's the event people talk about "Where were you on 9/11" just like people talked about "Where were you when JFK was assassinated?" The JFK assassination ushered in the 2T just like 9/11 ushered in the 3T. You have to remember that some people were hopeful even in 1929 but that had later vanished. 9/11 took away people's sense of safety and was a loss of innocence.

Are we all still talking about a skipped archetype?  I got off track due to there being open bigotry happening in a thread I made

911, the 911 wars and the economic collapse beginning in 2008 are to me the very definition of a 4th Turning.  So, depending on where the economic collapse ends (it has not ended) that will determine what is going on with Turnings.

However, this thread was about a missed archetype.  If it is no longer about that, can the mod please instruct me how to delete this thread or do it themselves?  There is still hateful commentary  in here I do not wish to be associated with.

I also cannot believe POC or SJW ppls are just passing that mess by as if nothing happened.  The only time bigotry wins is when we stay silent. 

Is u askeered?
Reply
(05-02-2019, 07:40 PM)TheNomad Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 05:31 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 04:06 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:39 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:09 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: A possibility that S & H suggested was that the 4T might be primarily economic, and that Millies might become a mighty work force.  I can sort of see that.  If there is an emphasis on improving the prospects of younger generations.

A weaker version of the Hero role, I think, compared to the Republican or G.I. generations.  Millies may become a water color version of a Civic generation, rather than an oil paint version.

This 4T started early in 2001. This 4T is a mix of many issues at once so it's pretty confusing and adding to the fact that it's far less intense than the last one but also far longer. The 4T lasting until 2028 or 2029 means a 27 or 28 year 4T which would cause a lot of malaise and also a different version of a 1T.

I think you'll find that the hypothesis that the 4T started in 2001 early has been largely dismissed.  That said, I think it started in the 2005-2007 range.  Of course being from the South I think Katrina rather than 9-11 was the major event that showed that the system was unrepairably broken. Before then people could easily argue we could tinker here and tinker there and fix most things.

After Big K and Nawlens Drowning not so much.

The reason I think it's 2001 is because it's largely the event people talk about which changed the course of America. It's the event people talk about "Where were you on 9/11" just like people talked about "Where were you when JFK was assassinated?" The JFK assassination ushered in the 2T just like 9/11 ushered in the 3T. You have to remember that some people were hopeful even in 1929 but that had later vanished. 9/11 took away people's sense of safety and was a loss of innocence.

Are we all still talking about a skipped archetype?  I got off track due to there being open bigotry happening in a thread I made

911, the 911 wars and the economic collapse beginning in 2008 are to me the very definition of a 4th Turning.  So, depending on where the economic collapse ends (it has not ended) that will determine what is going on with Turnings.

However, this thread was about a missed archetype.  If it is no longer about that, can the mod please instruct me how to delete this thread or do it themselves?  There is still hateful commentary  in here I do not wish to be associated with.

I also cannot believe POC or SJW ppls are just passing that mess by as if nothing happened.  The only time bigotry wins is when we stay silent. 

Is u askeered?

I'm not offended with what Kinser79 says because a lot of it makes sense. The SJWs IMO are the new fascists.
Reply
(05-02-2019, 07:45 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 07:40 PM)TheNomad Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 05:31 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 04:06 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:39 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: This 4T started early in 2001. This 4T is a mix of many issues at once so it's pretty confusing and adding to the fact that it's far less intense than the last one but also far longer. The 4T lasting until 2028 or 2029 means a 27 or 28 year 4T which would cause a lot of malaise and also a different version of a 1T.

I think you'll find that the hypothesis that the 4T started in 2001 early has been largely dismissed.  That said, I think it started in the 2005-2007 range.  Of course being from the South I think Katrina rather than 9-11 was the major event that showed that the system was unrepairably broken. Before then people could easily argue we could tinker here and tinker there and fix most things.

After Big K and Nawlens Drowning not so much.

The reason I think it's 2001 is because it's largely the event people talk about which changed the course of America. It's the event people talk about "Where were you on 9/11" just like people talked about "Where were you when JFK was assassinated?" The JFK assassination ushered in the 2T just like 9/11 ushered in the 3T. You have to remember that some people were hopeful even in 1929 but that had later vanished. 9/11 took away people's sense of safety and was a loss of innocence.

Are we all still talking about a skipped archetype?  I got off track due to there being open bigotry happening in a thread I made

911, the 911 wars and the economic collapse beginning in 2008 are to me the very definition of a 4th Turning.  So, depending on where the economic collapse ends (it has not ended) that will determine what is going on with Turnings.

However, this thread was about a missed archetype.  If it is no longer about that, can the mod please instruct me how to delete this thread or do it themselves?  There is still hateful commentary  in here I do not wish to be associated with.

I also cannot believe POC or SJW ppls are just passing that mess by as if nothing happened.  The only time bigotry wins is when we stay silent. 

Is u askeered?

I'm not offended with what Kinser79 says because a lot of it makes sense. The SJWs IMO are the new fascists.

at least you taking a side.  the rest are cowards.
Reply
I think that Kinser has stated a crucial point-if the cold civil war remains cold, both sides will be exhausted as the beginning of the 1T. Not only exhausted, but the passion will be dying along with the Boomers.


And Xers-who will be aging into the mature Nomad phase-will be taking over the country.
Reply
I recall posting about the 1T in England following the Glorious Revolution. That is, there didn't seem to be any 1T, just a blank time. The history seemed to jump from the Glorious Revolution directly to the next 2T.

I suspect that the 1T was there, of course, but that it was a weak 1T.
Reply
I will use "Millenial Crisis" as a place holder name for this 4T. And "Next 1T" as a place holder name for the next 1T. Suggested order of turnings:


1. Millenial Crisis.
2. Next 1T.
3. Apollo type 2T.
4. unraveling.
5. projected Crisis of 2100.
6. High.
7. Dionysus type 2T.

I am using kinsers optimistic version of this 4T. At the end of this 4T America is okay, with the turning concluded by neither triumph nor tragedy. Americans are sick and tired of turmoil, and just want to get back to normalcy (whatever they conceive normalcy to be).

I don't think that the Next 1T will feel like one of the great barbecues of history; I don't think it will feel like a high. I think that the Next 1T will be a weak 1T, and a fairly quiet period.
Reply
(05-03-2019, 11:47 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: I will use "Millenial Crisis" as a place holder name for this 4T.  And "Next 1T" as a place holder name for the next 1T.  Suggested order of turnings:


1.  Millenial Crisis.  
2.  Next 1T.    
3.  Apollo type 2T.    
4. unraveling.    
5. projected  Crisis of 2100.    
6. High.  
7.  Dionysus type 2T.

I am using kinsers optimistic version of this 4T.  At the end of this 4T the country is okay, with the turning concluded by neither triumph nor tragedy.  Americans are sick and tired of turmoil, and just want to get back to normalcy (whatever they conceive normalcy to be).

I don't think that the Next 1T will feel like one of the great barbecues of history; I don't think it will feel like a high.  I think that the Next 1T will be a weak 1T, and a fairly quiet period.

I think it will be noisier than the last one, given Neptune's position in Aries for most of it. Similar to 1865-1874
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(05-02-2019, 07:45 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 07:40 PM)TheNomad Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 05:31 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 04:06 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:39 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: This 4T started early in 2001. This 4T is a mix of many issues at once so it's pretty confusing and adding to the fact that it's far less intense than the last one but also far longer. The 4T lasting until 2028 or 2029 means a 27 or 28 year 4T which would cause a lot of malaise and also a different version of a 1T.

I think you'll find that the hypothesis that the 4T started in 2001 early has been largely dismissed.  That said, I think it started in the 2005-2007 range.  Of course being from the South I think Katrina rather than 9-11 was the major event that showed that the system was unrepairably broken. Before then people could easily argue we could tinker here and tinker there and fix most things.

After Big K and Nawlens Drowning not so much.

The reason I think it's 2001 is because it's largely the event people talk about which changed the course of America. It's the event people talk about "Where were you on 9/11" just like people talked about "Where were you when JFK was assassinated?" The JFK assassination ushered in the 2T just like 9/11 ushered in the 3T. You have to remember that some people were hopeful even in 1929 but that had later vanished. 9/11 took away people's sense of safety and was a loss of innocence.

Are we all still talking about a skipped archetype?  I got off track due to there being open bigotry happening in a thread I made

911, the 911 wars and the economic collapse beginning in 2008 are to me the very definition of a 4th Turning.  So, depending on where the economic collapse ends (it has not ended) that will determine what is going on with Turnings.

However, this thread was about a missed archetype.  If it is no longer about that, can the mod please instruct me how to delete this thread or do it themselves?  There is still hateful commentary  in here I do not wish to be associated with.

I also cannot believe POC or SJW ppls are just passing that mess by as if nothing happened.  The only time bigotry wins is when we stay silent. 

Is u askeered?

I'm not offended with what Kinser79 says because a lot of it makes sense. The SJWs IMO are the new fascists.

No, social justice is not fascism. The fascists are the Trumpists. That is obvious. Fascism is racism.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(05-02-2019, 05:31 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 04:06 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:39 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 01:09 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: A possibility that S & H suggested was that the 4T might be primarily economic, and that Millies might become a mighty work force.  I can sort of see that.  If there is an emphasis on improving the prospects of younger generations.

A weaker version of the Hero role, I think, compared to the Republican or G.I. generations.  Millies may become a water color version of a Civic generation, rather than an oil paint version.

This 4T started early in 2001. This 4T is a mix of many issues at once so it's pretty confusing and adding to the fact that it's far less intense than the last one but also far longer. The 4T lasting until 2028 or 2029 means a 27 or 28 year 4T which would cause a lot of malaise and also a different version of a 1T.

I think you'll find that the hypothesis that the 4T started in 2001 early has been largely dismissed.  That said, I think it started in the 2005-2007 range.  Of course being from the South I think Katrina rather than 9-11 was the major event that showed that the system was unrepairably broken. Before then people could easily argue we could tinker here and tinker there and fix most things.

After Big K and Nawlens Drowning not so much.

The reason I think it's 2001 is because it's largely the event people talk about which changed the course of America. It's the event people talk about "Where were you on 9/11" just like people talked about "Where were you when JFK was assassinated?" The JFK assassination ushered in the 2T just like 9/11 ushered in the 3T. You have to remember that some people were hopeful even in 1929 but that had later vanished. 9/11 took away people's sense of safety and was a loss of innocence.

What innocence? That was lost in the 60s and 70s through Vietnam and Watergate. Those events would never have happened if JFK had not been assassinated.

The JFK assassination ushered in the 2T not because it was a shocking event about which people knew where they were. It was because Johnson was a different sort of president, one who did not have a sense of what the people would stand for, and unable to persuade them in any case.

9-11 was an excuse for more business-as-usual imperialist wars. Peoples' sense of safety was soon restored because no further attacks took place; protective measures were employed. It certainly in no way changed the course of America, as I already pointed out. Any policy changes as a result of 9-11 were reversed once the madman Bush was no longer president.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
If Millies have N tendencies, would it be possible for events to morph them into something like the Gilded? A sort of quasi-pseudo-Civic generation?
Reply
(05-02-2019, 05:14 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: Didn't the Missionary and GI Generation in America also have what you see as Nomad tendencies? How are the Boomers different from the Missionaries and the Millennials different from the GIs in the US at least? Because I sense all of this is due to American culture, not a mega 3T. I know you say that there is no one American culture but the culture of wanting freedom, gun rights, and fighting against authority is very American no matter what the ethnicity. Also if you notice, the last 4T was also politically divided.

I would argue that all generations have all of the tendencies, or rather characteristics due to the fact that they are composed of individuals and each individual brings something different to the aggregate.

I haven't met any Missionaries so I couldn't say on an individual basis, but in the aggregate no I've not seen much in the way of  a nomadic tendency at all.  Such was actually weakest with them.  With the GIs who I do have personal experience the ones who did have nomadic tendencies either had Lost Parents or Late-Lost siblings influencing (say Interbellum Cusp).  Over all GIs were very interested in new ideas and technologies--though spirituality not so much. 

I've argued that there is no Unified American culture.  Wanting freedom, guns and being suspicious of authority simply isn't enough to express a common psychology manifesting itself as a common culture.

I would say that all turnings are politically divided to a certain extent.  This current 4T though seems to be a cold civil war running between the Nationalist-Populists (who are also largely conservative) vs the Progressives (who really should be more accurately called communist reactionaries--as Marxism is itself obsolete [one has to undo actual technological and economic progress to have the world fit into that paradigm and it never really did anyway since Marx was a severely flawed sociologist].
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
(05-02-2019, 11:12 PM)TheNomad Wrote: at least you taking a side.  the rest are cowards.

You sound surprised.  I've been on both this and the Old Forum for 10 years.  I know the Boomer Lefties here (because that is what they are) are indeed cowards.  They haven't changed.  

As for my side...It is opposed to Political Correctness, identity politics and SJW types.  Also pretty much anything that PBR or Eric the Ignoramus like--but I digress everyone knows I think PBR is the epitome of the word Loser and well Eric is an ignoramus.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
(05-03-2019, 02:02 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: I recall posting about the 1T in England following the Glorious Revolution.  That is, there didn't seem to be any 1T, just a blank time.  The history seemed to jump from the Glorious Revolution directly to the next 2T.

I suspect that the 1T was there, of course, but that it was a weak 1T.

It existed, it was just weak because both the crown and parliament were exhausted.

Quote:I think that Kinser has stated a crucial point-if the cold civil war remains cold, both sides will be exhausted as the beginning of the 1T. Not only exhausted, but the passion will be dying along with the Boomers.


And Xers-who will be aging into the mature Nomad phase-will be taking over the country.

Indeed.  And that is things happen at the most optimistic juncture.  IE Trump is Re-elected with a Nationalist-Populist majority in the House, and is allowed to have his wall and moderate reforms. and come 20204 the Boomers will have mostly aged out.

That being said I'm not necessarily an optimist.  To me it appears that the left will eventually force the civil war going hot.  If such happens and they win they will set up a socialist system that will collapse after a saeculum if it even survives the next 2T, if the Progressive-Nationalists win then the worst aspects of those on that side will be implemented.

One thing I'm not is optimistic.
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
Reply
(05-03-2019, 05:29 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 05:14 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: Didn't the Missionary and GI Generation in America also have what you see as Nomad tendencies? How are the Boomers different from the Missionaries and the Millennials different from the GIs in the US at least? Because I sense all of this is due to American culture, not a mega 3T. I know you say that there is no one American culture but the culture of wanting freedom, gun rights, and fighting against authority is very American no matter what the ethnicity. Also if you notice, the last 4T was also politically divided.

I would argue that all generations have all of the tendencies, or rather characteristics due to the fact that they are composed of individuals and each individual brings something different to the aggregate.

I haven't met any Missionaries so I couldn't say on an individual basis, but in the aggregate no I've not seen much in the way of  a nomadic tendency at all.  Such was actually weakest with them.  With the GIs who I do have personal experience the ones who did have nomadic tendencies either had Lost Parents or Late-Lost siblings influencing (say Interbellum Cusp).  Over all GIs were very interested in new ideas and technologies--though spirituality not so much. 

I've argued that there is no Unified American culture.  Wanting freedom, guns and being suspicious of authority simply isn't enough to express a common psychology manifesting itself as a common culture.

I would say that all turnings are politically divided to a certain extent.  This current 4T though seems to be a cold civil war running between the Nationalist-Populists (who are also largely conservative) vs the Progressives (who really should be more accurately called communist reactionaries--as Marxism is itself obsolete [one has to undo actual technological and economic progress to have the world fit into that paradigm and it never really did anyway since Marx was a severely flawed sociologist].

What's unusual about Millennials (especially the 1980s borns) is there's both a fascination in new technology and old technology at the same time. Many of them are into the latest tech gadgets but also many older things like vinyl record players and old school polaroid cameras are in. What do you think causes the contradiction of both wanting the new and wanting the old at the same time that was different than the last 4T?



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(05-03-2019, 07:26 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: What's unusual about Millennials (especially the 1980s borns) is there's both a fascination in new technology and old technology at the same time.
If anyone can talk about TECHNOLOGY in previous 4th Turnings I would appreciate it.
I don't have too much handle on WHAT IS TECHNOLOGY in terms of other turnings... because at any given time, anything can be TECH.
Horse is tech.  Railroad is tech.  Waterscrew is tech.  It is difficult (for me) to compare and contrast the now with the past although the previous 4T is not so bad.  Radio, TV, cars, highways/transit.  I get it.  I am really now trying to understand the CW 4T and TECH. 
Wouldn't slaves be considered TECH?  If we get real?  The CW decided what tech would be available to whom (or at all in this case).
You have the entire Confederate Economy locked up in a specific "tech" where they are Google and Suckerberg in mansions with their minions of trademarked code, platforms and systems... then what if there's a  "war' to take all that away?  Doesn't Sucker fall down into trauma, corps collapse, the whole TECH BUBBLE of right now vanishes.
Reply
(05-03-2019, 08:27 PM)TheNomad Wrote:
(05-03-2019, 07:26 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: What's unusual about Millennials (especially the 1980s borns) is there's both a fascination in new technology and old technology at the same time.
If anyone can talk about TECHNOLOGY in previous 4th Turnings I would appreciate it.
I don't have too much handle on WHAT IS TECHNOLOGY in terms of other turnings... because at any given time, anything can be TECH.

In view of the horrific wars that bedevil the typical 4T, I would say that the technology of military slaughter and especially genocide gets the most sponsorship. Heck, the Nazis took over the German division of IBM and found a perverse use for the punch card of early computers -- keeping track of Jews scheduled for extermination. Machine guns and explosives came into use in the American Civil War, and the technology of military aircraft advanced rapidly in the Second World War... not to mention the atom bomb. The Nazis were working on some 'wonder weapons' that might have been more successful, at least in a novel that I have contemplated writing. (They failed because Germany badly used its scientific skill and because Germany never conquered the oil fields of the Caucasus and the Middle East. Besides, the Americans, British, and Soviets had the good Jewish scientists).

Quote:Horse is tech.  Railroad is tech.  Waterscrew is tech.  It is difficult (for me) to compare and contrast the now with the past although the previous 4T is not so bad.  Radio, TV, cars, highways/transit.  I get it.  I am really now trying to understand the CW 4T and TECH.

Technology is itself amoral.  I just told you to what use the Nazis put punch cards.

Quote:Wouldn't slaves be considered TECH?  If we get real?  The CW decided what tech would be available to whom (or at all in this case).
You have the entire Confederate Economy locked up in a specific "tech" where they are Google and Suckerberg in mansions with their minions of trademarked code, platforms and systems... then what if there's a  "war' to take all that away?  Doesn't Sucker fall down into trauma, corps collapse, the whole TECH BUBBLE of right now vanishes.

Strictly speaking, slavery was more an institution than a technology, just are are religion, government, and capitalism.  I can say this: if the Trump vision of accelerating the depletion of resources to stave off economic stagnation succeeds, then the Crisis of 2100 will be one of the worst calamities ever in human history -- huge parts of the world disappearing under expanding oceans. Such land will include much of the world's most productive farmland, and even if that farmland is largely populated by poor peasant farmers, then that will mean hundreds of millions of people going from being barely able to feed themselves to being without land to farm. That is before I discuss desertification as rainfall patterns shift.

Disappearance of land will create legal anarchy and will spark wars involving people who must take over land  or die of starvation.

Our technology has been a good substitute form much of the material basis of the world -- but no technological miracle can substitute for food. There is no techno-fix for hunger. If you thought the killings of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were unspeakable, then just think of what happens when everything fifty meters above sea level vanishes.

We are at the end of the era, at least in the First World, in which more material goods bring more human happiness. We need fewer laborers in manufacturing because few of us need more than one car or TV per adult. If we use more energy we hasten global warming and worsen the Crisis of 2100.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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(05-04-2019, 12:15 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Strictly speaking, slavery was more an institution than a technology

I don't think I agree.  Technology is basically a resource.  A resource harnessed by someone or a thing (a corp) for financial gain. 

Slave = the modern equivalent of an employee? 

Think about it first.  The most efficient way to use the TECH in the scenario is to own human beings to do work for you AND NOT PAY THEM.

I dont think anyone can really say that isnt the most effective way to use HUMAN LABOR as TECH.

So, if you have a TECH available to you that is not available to others, that is a clear advantage in the capitalistic ideology.  ANY tech.  If someone has access to fresh water when their competitor does not, it's an advantage.  Just being random there.  To the basest level, the "effort" or ......... business .......... cannot thrive above its competitors if RESOURCES are not equal.

Confederacy was based on the idea they had the resources of HUMAN BEINGS on their farms and in their businesses who did work for them without pay.  While contrast that to other "competitors in business" who did not have that same resource (they did not/chose not to have human beings work without pay).

Destroy the advantage (the TECH) and you have destroyed the Confederacy. 

You must be willing to see this in the light of capitalism, business and TECHNOLOGY.  When a company develops a new microchip, they have an advantage over all other competitors.  They thrive in the marketplace.  Until other corps are able (by law) to use and make those microchips themselves to even the playing field.

Since I am interested in understanding how the current 4T compares to the current one NOW (because I do not think our 4T is like the WWII era Turning)....... how do I compare the TECH and the idea the Confederacy was laid waste when a huge "indictment" and MORAL CONDEMNATION was made of a thing which gave an advantage in our civilization that now longer exists.

I know, thats a bit much bit I run on 14 cylinders. 

WHAT in the CW Turning is like ours now?

I am looking at the Civil War Era being like ours.......... but maybe without the physical war.  An ideological one, grand and maybe as large in some ways as some of the "reconstruction" of the CW period.  What are we facing now that is like that time?  What are going to be the emerging morals that change the landscape of our America?  What are some of the HUGE referendums coming for us now that will fundamentally alter our civilization?
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(05-03-2019, 07:26 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: What's unusual about Millennials (especially the 1980s borns) is there's both a fascination in new technology and old technology at the same time. Many of them are into the latest tech gadgets but also many older things like vinyl record players and old school polaroid cameras are in. What do you think causes the contradiction of both wanting the new and wanting the old at the same time that was different than the last 4T?


I couldn't say if this is a wide phenomina, my interactions with 1980s cohorts are limited to work, and in which case I'm a supervisor so I find it imprudent to socialize with with subordinates.  That said, being interested in Poloroid cameras and vinyl recordings myself (not to mention having purchased an actual Victrola) I believe that those particular cases the medium itself is "warmer" and "less sterile" than the more common digital formats.

Given the choice between listening to a clean remastering of Jelly Roll Morton or a scratchy vinyl record from the 1930s I prefer the later.



It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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