It looks like Trump is setting the mood for the 1T.

[disasterzone]

The Trump presidency is predicting what's to come and the 1T attitudes people will take.

[Arkarch]

(11-11-2016, 09:32 AM)disasterzone Wrote: The Trump presidency is predicting what's to come and the 1T attitudes people will take.

I think its too early, but it potentially sets up what will.

If you believe Trump will be a one-term president, then a likely Democrat or moderating Republican may take 2020.  Even he is two-term, I think a change happens before the end of the 4T.

If Hillary had won, I expect policy fatigue or more pent-up frustration by red america would have kept her one term. A hard conservative wins for 2020 (was thinking Cruz on a rebound).

As the 4T ebbs away 2024 or 2028, I think the 2020 or 2024 elections will set the tone for the 1T.

[pbrower2a]

We have a chance of a revolution to topple the fascist regime of Donald Judas Trump. A Red revolution.

Red as in hammer-and-sickle motifs.

[Warren Dew]

disasterzone and taramarie, I am interested in thoughts from both of you on this.

[Warren Dew]

Thank you taramarie.  Very interesting.

Incidentally, this may be worth sharing with those who want to know how Trump won.  It's an article from a Trump Democrat:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glob...for-trump/

I've shared it to a lot of conservatives and it is getting a good number of reshares.  For conservatives, of course, the message is a bit different; they are receptive because it's written by a fellow Trump voter, but it also gets across the idea that there are actual moderate muslims out there.

I haven't quite dared share it to the "Crusader" group yet, though.

[Kinser79]

(11-12-2016, 08:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We have a chance of a revolution to topple the fascist regime of Donald Judas Trump. A Red revolution.

Red as in hammer-and-sickle motifs.

What is funny is that when I was still a Marxist-Leninist I might have agreed with you PBR. However, the material conditions that make such a revolution possible are not present and are unlikely to develop in the near future. Never mind you keep using the Fascist word without recognizing it for what it truly means. If Trump were a fascist there won't be a red revolution because he'll round up all the commies, anarchists and fellow travelers and dispose of them. That is what fascists do.

As to the future 1T I strongly suspect that Trump will be 2 term president assuming he isn't assassinated or otherwise dies in office. If he is assassinated he will become a Martyr for the Civic Nationalist cause. If he merely dies we'll have a strong conservative 1T lead under Pence who will be two term. Pence is a Jonser but he has many Xer qualities and could easily take on a Truman-esque role.

ETA: In all honesty given the way Obama has governed for the past 8 years I strongly suspect that he was a pre-seasonal president who got in by defeating the status quo and running against two very weak GOP candidates.

[pbrower2a]

kinser --

You are a roast-beef Communist: a fascist on the outside and a Commie on the inside. You pretend to be a fascist so that you can get some privileges in a rotten social order that you undermine by making ever worse for most people. I forget what the opposite is -- someone Red on the outside and brown or black (fascist) on the inside, someone who says much that sounds Bolshevik but barely covers racism and ultra-nationalism.

I prefer honest-to-Lenin Marxists who have some philosophical consistency and even an overt fascist who leaves no question of his vileness to those perverse hybrids.

[radind]

(11-12-2016, 03:53 PM)Arkarch Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 09:32 AM)disasterzone Wrote: The Trump presidency is predicting what's to come and the 1T attitudes people will take.

I think its too early, but it potentially sets up what will.

If you believe Trump will be a one-term president, then a likely Democrat or moderating Republican may take 2020.  Even he is two-term, I think a change happens before the end of the 4T.

If Hillary had won, I expect policy fatigue or more pent-up frustration by red america would have kept her one term.  A hard conservative wins for 2020 (was thinking Cruz on a rebound).

As the 4T ebbs away 2024 or 2028, I think the 2020 or 2024 elections will set the tone for the 1T.

I think that Cruz is done.

[pbrower2a]

After a few days I can now reflect upon something -- the 2016 election had an intriguing drama behind it. It has the structure of a form of literature or cinema with which most of us are familiar, and it fits the mold well. You know my political orientation well, so you can predict my bias.

At first the night seemed something to celebrate as Democrats seemed to have chances in states that they just don't win, like Georgia. Democrats got early leads, and it seemed only a matter of time. As a tantalizer, one Republican incumbent Senator (Mark Kirk) went down fast. Hooray! Then things steadily deteriorated. But not too fast. But some states that I thought would be swift wins for Democrats were slow to be called. The drama dragged on. States that I expected to be close all got called for Republicans  Some Senate seats that I thought possible pick-ups for Democrats started going to Republicans. Donald Trump got a lead in electoral votes, and the Senate composition was going to get dicey. "Blue" states like Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania that I expected to go Democratic quickly remained on the board while Ohio, Florida, and North Carolina went to the Dark Side.  

By the end of the evening the election was down to Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania... and such an empty suit (and perfect stooge for people who believe that no human suffering is in excess so long as such creates elite indulgence), and Pat Toomey, who was President of the Club for Growth, whose idea of growth is that the growth of human suffering is the key to prosperity. Frankly I would rather live in a much poorer country in which the government shows some respect for human welfare even if the country is far poorer, like India, than in some super-prosperous country in which all the increases in wealth will create only mass misery.

I began that evening in great optimism. In the end, knowing the character of Donald Trump, who will probably become one of the twenty most evil persons to ever live, I wished that I could simply walk in front of a speeding eighteen-wheeler.

Now you know what sort of story it was: as a movie it is the stereotypical horror movie. As a novel its author is most likely Stephen King. The problem is that this is not a novel or a movie. However convincing the drama, it is we who get to live the consequences. That makes it so horrible. It is the musical Cabaret without the music. It may be surprising, but I consider Cabaret one of the finest horror flicks of all because it has the key elements -- freakish characters, and the only likable characters (the Jews in the story) are doomed. In case you didn't get the point, one essential feature of a horror movie is that bad things happen to good people. As a liberal I came to believe that my political values have become permanently irrelevant in America. The sadists, ravagers, and exploiters now have all the power and the rest of us are powerless to stop the ruin of our lives.

We have been had. The play was masterful, and it couldn't have been better designed to shatter the hopes of anyone who thinks that he can be more than his economic role. People nothing more than their economic roles? They are the truly destitute. Slaves, serfs, maybe prisoners...

It may be surprising, but Donald Trump seems to be very popular among people with crappy jobs as convenience-store clerks who have little to live for but family life and the promise of Pie In the Sky When You Die. Donald Trump has promised to attack elites on their behalf -- the middle class -- to bring them down to the same level of economic distress so that they can live, as the least-well-paid part of the working class does, for happiness only in the Afterlife. The economic elites who want a social order like that of the Gilded Age in which 95% of the people suffer for the 2% want all others to lose all hope for political solutions.

I have had my emotional problems all year, and have had to get counseling for suicidal tendencies. Those are back. I can think of fates worse than death, and the sort of government that we will have will offer plenty of opportunities for fates worse than death. Man has always been far more adept in creating Hell than Heaven. America is about to go from being a dream for millions to a nightmare for millions. me included.

So far as I am concerned, death will solve all my problems. At my age I can no longer be a workhorse. I

[pbrower2a]

(11-13-2016, 07:15 PM)radind Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 03:53 PM)Arkarch Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 09:32 AM)disasterzone Wrote: The Trump presidency is predicting what's to come and the 1T attitudes people will take.

I think its too early, but it potentially sets up what will.

If you believe Trump will be a one-term president, then a likely Democrat or moderating Republican may take 2020.  Even he is two-term, I think a change happens before the end of the 4T.

If Hillary had won, I expect policy fatigue or more pent-up frustration by red america would have kept her one term.  A hard conservative wins for 2020 (was thinking Cruz on a rebound).

As the 4T ebbs away 2024 or 2028, I think the 2020 or 2024 elections will set the tone for the 1T.

I think that Cruz is done.

I think free elections are gone in America for perhaps 40 years.

[Galen]

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 08:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We have a chance of a revolution to topple the fascist regime of Donald Judas Trump. A Red revolution.

Red as in hammer-and-sickle motifs.

What is funny is that when I was still a Marxist-Leninist I might have agreed with you PBR.  However, the material conditions that make such a revolution possible are not present and are unlikely to develop in the near future.  Never mind you keep using the Fascist word without recognizing it for what it truly means.  If Trump were a fascist there won't be a red revolution because he'll round up all the commies, anarchists and fellow travelers and dispose of them.  That is what fascists do.

There is nothing in President-Elect Trump's history that suggests he will do anything of the sort.  Indeed after watching his victory speech I expect him to be gracious in victory to those who didn't stab him in the back, even some Demcrats.  You only have to look at his treatment of Carson and Giulani to see that.  Cruz on the other hand is going to have a very hard time of it given his behavior.  Clinton pulled every dirty trick in the book so I expect her to be prosecuted for the e-mails and the Clinton Foundation.

I don't expect him to throw his base under the bus the way Republicans have been doing for decades.

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As to the future 1T I strongly suspect that Trump will be  2 term president assuming he isn't assassinated or otherwise dies in office.  If he is assassinated he will become a Martyr for the Civic Nationalist cause.  If he merely dies we'll have a strong conservative 1T lead under Pence who will be two term.  Pence is a Jonser but he has many Xer qualities and could easily take on a Truman-esque role.

Judging from all of the death threats coming from the left these days the Secret Service may have to hire some extra help in investigating them all.  From the video below it looks there has already been one attempt even before he was elected.  His security detail is going to get quite a workout in the coming years.

[Warren Dew]

(11-13-2016, 11:51 PM)Galen Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 08:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We have a chance of a revolution to topple the fascist regime of Donald Judas Trump. A Red revolution.

Red as in hammer-and-sickle motifs.

What is funny is that when I was still a Marxist-Leninist I might have agreed with you PBR.  However, the material conditions that make such a revolution possible are not present and are unlikely to develop in the near future.  Never mind you keep using the Fascist word without recognizing it for what it truly means.  If Trump were a fascist there won't be a red revolution because he'll round up all the commies, anarchists and fellow travelers and dispose of them.  That is what fascists do.

There is nothing in President-Elect Trump's history that suggests he will do anything of the sort.  Indeed after watching his victory speech I expect him to be gracious in victory to those who didn't stab him in the back, even some Demcrats.  You only have to look at his treatment of Carson and Giulani to see that.  Cruz on the other hand is going to have a very hard time of it given his behavior.

Cruz at least went to the convention, unlike many who boycotted it and whose congratulations now Trump is tweeting out.  And you can't stab someone in the back if you were never on his side in the first place.

[Galen]

(11-13-2016, 11:59 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 11:51 PM)Galen Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 08:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We have a chance of a revolution to topple the fascist regime of Donald Judas Trump. A Red revolution.

Red as in hammer-and-sickle motifs.

What is funny is that when I was still a Marxist-Leninist I might have agreed with you PBR.  However, the material conditions that make such a revolution possible are not present and are unlikely to develop in the near future.  Never mind you keep using the Fascist word without recognizing it for what it truly means.  If Trump were a fascist there won't be a red revolution because he'll round up all the commies, anarchists and fellow travelers and dispose of them.  That is what fascists do.

There is nothing in President-Elect Trump's history that suggests he will do anything of the sort.  Indeed after watching his victory speech I expect him to be gracious in victory to those who didn't stab him in the back, even some Demcrats.  You only have to look at his treatment of Carson and Giulani to see that.  Cruz on the other hand is going to have a very hard time of it given his behavior.

Cruz at least went to the convention, unlike many who boycotted it and whose congratulations now Trump is tweeting out.  And you can't stab someone in the back if you were never on his side in the first place.

True enough but still his behavior was pretty slimy and will be remembered by Trump.

[pbrower2a]

(11-13-2016, 11:51 PM)Galen Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 08:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We have a chance of a revolution to topple the fascist regime of Donald Judas Trump. A Red revolution.

Red as in hammer-and-sickle motifs.

What is funny is that when I was still a Marxist-Leninist I might have agreed with you PBR.  However, the material conditions that make such a revolution possible are not present and are unlikely to develop in the near future.  Never mind you keep using the Fascist word without recognizing it for what it truly means.  If Trump were a fascist there won't be a red revolution because he'll round up all the commies, anarchists and fellow travelers and dispose of them.  That is what fascists do.

There is nothing in President-Elect Trump's history that suggests he will do anything of the sort.  Indeed after watching his victory speech I expect him to be gracious in victory to those who didn't stab him in the back, even some Demcrats.  You only have to look at his treatment of Carson and Giulani to see that.  Cruz on the other hand is going to have a very hard time of it given his behavior.  Clinton pulled every dirty trick in the book so I expect her to be prosecuted for the e-mails and the Clinton Foundation.

I don't expect him to throw his base under the bus the way Republicans have been doing for decades.

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As to the future 1T I strongly suspect that Trump will be  2 term president assuming he isn't assassinated or otherwise dies in office.  If he is assassinated he will become a Martyr for the Civic Nationalist cause.  If he merely dies we'll have a strong conservative 1T lead under Pence who will be two term.  Pence is a Jonser but he has many Xer qualities and could easily take on a Truman-esque role.

Judging from all of the death threats coming from the left these days the Secret Service may have to hire some extra help in investigating them all.  From the video below it looks there has already been one attempt even before he was elected.  His security detail is going to get quite a workout in the coming years.

As a liberal who thought that he was a catastrophic fit for the Presidency and so wrote frequently, did I stab him in the back?

I see no good results from the shyster-driven economy that he advocated. He may have pleased people like retail clerks who wanted an ally against the educated middle class who would bring the middle class down to their economic level... I expect him to wreck the middle class  with higher taxes to fund tax cuts for the Master Class, the only people to whom he has any loyalty.  

I want to be something more in my life than my economic role, thank you. If I can't be, then I find life meaningless, liberty non-existent, and the pursuit of happiness at most something that I don't really care to do (get a whore, a smoke, get drunk, or pump a little money into a slot machine).

I find this a good explanation of how people get the most satisfying results in life:

[Galen]

(11-14-2016, 01:00 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 11:51 PM)Galen Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 08:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We have a chance of a revolution to topple the fascist regime of Donald Judas Trump. A Red revolution.

Red as in hammer-and-sickle motifs.

What is funny is that when I was still a Marxist-Leninist I might have agreed with you PBR.  However, the material conditions that make such a revolution possible are not present and are unlikely to develop in the near future.  Never mind you keep using the Fascist word without recognizing it for what it truly means.  If Trump were a fascist there won't be a red revolution because he'll round up all the commies, anarchists and fellow travelers and dispose of them.  That is what fascists do.

There is nothing in President-Elect Trump's history that suggests he will do anything of the sort.  Indeed after watching his victory speech I expect him to be gracious in victory to those who didn't stab him in the back, even some Demcrats.  You only have to look at his treatment of Carson and Giulani to see that.  Cruz on the other hand is going to have a very hard time of it given his behavior.  Clinton pulled every dirty trick in the book so I expect her to be prosecuted for the e-mails and the Clinton Foundation.

I don't expect him to throw his base under the bus the way Republicans have been doing for decades.

(11-13-2016, 06:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As to the future 1T I strongly suspect that Trump will be  2 term president assuming he isn't assassinated or otherwise dies in office.  If he is assassinated he will become a Martyr for the Civic Nationalist cause.  If he merely dies we'll have a strong conservative 1T lead under Pence who will be two term.  Pence is a Jonser but he has many Xer qualities and could easily take on a Truman-esque role.

Judging from all of the death threats coming from the left these days the Secret Service may have to hire some extra help in investigating them all.  From the video below it looks there has already been one attempt even before he was elected.  His security detail is going to get quite a workout in the coming years.

As a liberal who thought that he was a catastrophic fit for the Presidency and so wrote frequently, did I stab him in the back?

Other than policies that you don't like, you really don't have much to worry about.  That statement was about the various politicians that he will have to deal with.  You are just suffering a very bad case of cognitive dissonance where Trump is concerned.

[pbrower2a]

So I should be thankful to work as a convenience-store clerk in a horrible part of the country and praise the new Great and Glorious Leader?

I have an idea of what I just might do on January 20, 2017. Since liberalism is becoming irrelevant in America, maybe I might just join the Communist Party. The ideology of the Reactionary Party violates my ethical values even more than does Satanism.

(You may have thought that I was going to have an in-house cookout on a charcoal grill, didn't you? I don't want to make it easy for you).

To make a reference to Gilbert and Sullivan... I will be making a list. You don't want to be on it.

[Galen]

(11-14-2016, 01:41 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: So I should be thankful to work as a convenience-store clerk in a horrible part of the country and praise the new Great and Glorious Leader?

I have an idea of what I just might do on January 20, 2017. Since liberalism is becoming irrelevant in America, maybe I might just join the Communist Party. The ideology of the Reactionary Party violates my ethical values even more than does Satanism.

(You may have thought that I was going to have an in-house cookout on a charcoal grill, didn't you? I don't want to make it easy for you).

To make a reference to Gilbert and Sullivan... I will be making a list. You don't want to be on it.

Trump is not responsible for your career choices and geographic location.  As for the state of the economy, Trump didn't do that.  If the Republican Party violates your values more than Satanism then all I can say is that you have one screwed up set of ethical values.  That would go a long way towards explaining your on-line behavior.

[Galen]

(11-14-2016, 02:12 AM)taramarie Wrote: I also have been wondering what is the cause for him panicking about his career options and what it has to do with Trump. I wish he would explain why he thinks it has anything to do with Trump.

Its a bad case of cognitive dissonance so logic, reason and evidence don't matter to the person suffering this.  If anything Trump has always been clear about trying to improve the conditions of the average American.  No way to know if he will be successful but the status quo is simply not working.  When that happens, a course change is in order and Hillary was not that.

[pbrower2a]

(11-14-2016, 03:10 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-14-2016, 02:12 AM)taramarie Wrote: I also have been wondering what is the cause for him panicking about his career options and what it has to do with Trump. I wish he would explain why he thinks it has anything to do with Trump.

Its a bad case of cognitive dissonance so logic, reason and evidence don't matter to the person suffering this.  If anything Trump has always been clear about trying to improve the conditions of the average American.  No way to know if he will be successful but the status quo is simply not working.  When that happens, a course change is in order and Hillary was not that.

I am here because my parents moved back to the hick town where they lived as children when I was unemployed... and I have since ended up as a caretaker for them. Now that they are gone I am stuck with an emptiness in a place that I outgrew every way but financially. The money is gone, and I am 60 with Asperger's - practically unemployable, and then only in jobs that are a travesty of a living. I wish I had the chance to do otherwise -- but that's how undiagnosed Asperger's works. It truly messes up the life of someone who has all sorts of raw ability, like me.


In Donald Trump I see a reckless, cruel, selfish leader who gets angry easily and turns to brutality when he does not get his way. In Congress we have people who believe that the other party is simply to obey the winners. One election, one time decides everything indefinitely. Life is to be nothing but sacrifice on behalf of the super-rich, the only people who matter.

Yes, I understand that many who voted for Trump thought that they were voting against an elite that they saw and thought hostile -- the Middle Class that does not appreciate country music, reality TV, and ultimate sports, who thinks that auto racing is a bore, and laughs at covers of the great bastion of journalism sold at grocery checkouts.  People who shout "Jail Hillary! exemplify the American equivalent of the "Two-Minute Hate" from 1984. Don't fool yourself. It isn't going to change. Those people who thought the Middle Class was bad are going to find out what evil is.

As a liberal with a conscience I expect to find myself increasingly alien in the country in which I was born. Many people have done what some of our ancestors did, taking off from places where they felt alien in their country because of their religion or their political view and going to America where those did one no harm. I may need to do the inverse.

So the common man must work harder and pay harsher taxes on behalf of the Master Class whose indulgence and power is the new measure of a right to get what it wants. Make America Great Again? As in the Gilded Age? With a norm of 70-hour workweeks and 40-year lifespans for industrial workers? Without old-age insurance or disability insurance? Without welfare? All so that elites can wax even fatter?  So what are we to find as comfort? A religion that tells us that only in return for unqualified obedience to God's Law (including some prescribed political choices) we might get into Heaven but for any slip-up even in voting we go to Hell?

I would reject that religion, an earthly Hell in itself.

Of course I belong elsewhere. Suffer with a smile -- that is out of my character. Even I can't keep that act up.

[pbrower2a]

(11-14-2016, 01:10 AM)taramarie Wrote: what would be your ideal career, Pbrower?

I'm not sure. With Asperger's, it is likely either academic or creative. The clumsiness that goes with 'my' Asperger's precludes science. I am high-functioning enough to teach. I should have gone in that direction in the 1970s, but everyone told me that new teachers weren;t being hired -- so you might as well go into business as a clerk.

Retail sales clerk with a college degree. I once got a raise only because my existing pay would have been below the minimum wage. I thought that by showing some loyalty I might show a desirable trait for something better.

Not knowing that I had Asperger's made me unaware of what a bad fit I was for allegedly easy jobs that 'anyone could do'.