It looks like Trump is setting the mood for the 1T.

[Odin]

(12-06-2016, 07:45 AM)FLBones Wrote: Feminism was necessary a hundred years ago when women couldn't vote, but I question its validity today. Feminism, from my perspective seems outdated and unnecessary in today's society.

LOL. Women are still regularly blamed for being raped and sexually harassed. Women still have issues getting good medical treatment because doctors assume their problems are psychological due to the old sexist beliefs regarding "hysterical" women. Women still have trouble being accepted in STEM fields.

[Odin]

(12-06-2016, 02:27 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 05:36 AM)Tuss Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 05:04 AM)taramarie Wrote: I very much doubt culturally you will change it back to the 50s. I dare them to shove women back in that role for a start. Best of luck with that. Lol I would love to see that happen. I bring that up because one of the complaints I have heard is that families broke up aka women left the nest for higher pastures. If they think that women will go back to that role anytime soon ....well and I thought Eric was delusional!  You can try. You will fail in that respect. What is that I smell? A cultural revolution. Two clashing on both sides. What does that remind me of? Oh that is right...the civil war. Lets just say I would not be surprised at all if this happens. Especially if the division, culture and economy becomes even more toxic than it already is.

It will not be the same, it will be totally different, but it will still be similar enough that people who lived in the 50's will suddenly turn around and discover that the age reminds them of a period they once lived in, long ago. Like a forgotten scent from childhood or the perfume of a young woman you once knew.

Women will be more traditionalist than they are right now, perhaps not as much as in the 50's and certainly not in the same way, but still. You can already see it in the antifeminist young women on YouTube. They are fed up. They've had enough. They just want to be real women, treated and regarded as such. They take the red pill. Currently however, we still live in an era of gender extermination leveling by indoctrination and brainwashing. That will stop.

My African American fiancé gets the creeps whenever people talk about how great the 50s were in America.  Besides the issue of women being housewives, secretaries, teachers, or nurses, there was a little problem called Jim Crow.  "Colored people" cleaned houses and office buildings, did landscaping, and had to go to separate schools, use separate restrooms, couldn't use the same public facilities as whites, etc... And certainly, a black man could not marry a white lady and my honey and I could not be together.

Yep!

[Mikebert]

7TussHello again, long time no see!

If you recall, I predicted Trump's presidential victory over at the old forum. I told you he would win the election, and suggested that Donald J. Trump was the GC. I found the combined message of  anti-laissez faire Rustbelt Nationalism, anti-establishment political punk rock and anti-immigration rhetoric irresistible. Here was the great synthesis, the Promethean spirit of our age, American style! And if it's right for America, soon enough a variant becomes the New Look of Europe as well, perhaps headed by our maiden of France, Marine Le Pen. That might have been over a year ago, I don't remember exactly, but back then not one of you wanted to believe me. Trump was just a clown and would be knocked out in the primaries. Well, for a few exceptions of course. Rags most likely, and perhaps one or two others with their heads screwed right and not inundated with Blue Pill soda.

Just wanted to put that down and bask in it for a while.  Apparently, sometimes you know the hearts and minds of the American people better than the Americans do themselves. 

Now, we just have to wait and see if he can form a useful cabinet to work for him, given the dysfunctional "insider"-pro mechanics of Washington and the fact that the Senate is dominated by the very Republican establishment that wants nothing less than to destroy him. As we have recently seen, it hasn't begun very well...

Barring that however, I suggest that in fact, we are indeed headed towards a new era and everything will Work Out Fine. Come the early 2020's, even the most log headed American pinko liberal leftie will realize there is Morning in America, and somehow we have collectively managed as a civilization to slip  into a new 1st Turning American High.

And if you look at it from the early 80's challenger's viewpoint, it all lines up neatly as well:

1st Turning: 1943-1963 (20 years)
2nd Turning: 1963-1980 (17 years)
3rd Turning: 1980-2001 (21 years)
4th Turnng: 2001-2022-ish? (21 years)

Soon it will be the 1950's all over again and things that were wronged from the Awakening to this day will be set back straight, yet on a higher level. Can't wait. Here we go...

Respectfully,
Tuss
Problem I have with this is it is enormously late weighted.  You are assuming that somehow (magic?) Trump will be able to do what Bush could not.

Your 4T (which I favor from generational considerations) ignores George Bush.  Republicans had total control of the Federal government for a few months in 2001 and then for four years from 2003-2007.  Republicans already had the same opportunity that Trump will have.  Much of passable policy is stuff that was fully available to Bush.  Trump comes in with no party faction behind him.  He is totally dependent on Bush people to implement his policy.  Unless you have encyclopedic knowledge of government policy, what gets enacted is what the policymakers formulate, not want you want.  So what Trump will end up doing is what the Republicans running policy want and that is more or less what we got with Bush II.

[FLBones]

The fifties were the last great era in America.

[radind]

(12-06-2016, 09:00 PM)FLBones Wrote: The fifties were the last great era in America.

The USA was still coasting after the victory in WWII.
It was a great time, not likely to return.

[pbrower2a]

(12-06-2016, 09:04 PM)radind Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 09:00 PM)FLBones Wrote: The fifties were the last great era in America.

The USA was still coasting after the victory in WWII.
It was a great time, not likely to return.

It will return -- if Donald Trump and the hard Right are repudiated. Otherwise  America will be back except for technology in the early-industrial era in urban areas and and a Jim Crow-like era in rural areas.  Think of Franco's Spain or Khomeini's Iran with Apartheid-style racism.

The electorates of 2010-2016 are consistent with such a nightmare, the sort of place that people live to get away from for more freedom and opportunity. Somehow I expect that to get a harsh correction, and a Depression like that of the 1930s or some military disasters might be what it takes to set America on the right course.  

Enough Americans are simply too good for a repressive and inequitable regime. Of course I expect Donald Trump to be a catastrophic failure as President and Mike Pence has values consistent with about a quarter of the population.

[pbrower2a]

(12-06-2016, 02:27 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 05:36 AM)Tuss Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 05:04 AM)taramarie Wrote: I very much doubt culturally you will change it back to the 50s. I dare them to shove women back in that role for a start. Best of luck with that. Lol I would love to see that happen. I bring that up because one of the complaints I have heard is that families broke up aka women left the nest for higher pastures. If they think that women will go back to that role anytime soon ....well and I thought Eric was delusional!  You can try. You will fail in that respect. What is that I smell? A cultural revolution. Two clashing on both sides. What does that remind me of? Oh that is right...the civil war. Lets just say I would not be surprised at all if this happens. Especially if the division, culture and economy becomes even more toxic than it already is.

It will not be the same, it will be totally different, but it will still be similar enough that people who lived in the 50's will suddenly turn around and discover that the age reminds them of a period they once lived in, long ago. Like a forgotten scent from childhood or the perfume of a young woman you once knew.

Women will be more traditionalist than they are right now, perhaps not as much as in the 50's and certainly not in the same way, but still. You can already see it in the antifeminist young women on YouTube. They are fed up. They've had enough. They just want to be real women, treated and regarded as such. They take the red pill. Currently however, we still live in an era of gender extermination leveling by indoctrination and brainwashing. That will stop.

My African American fiancé gets the creeps whenever people talk about how great the 50s were in America.  Besides the issue of women being housewives, secretaries, teachers, or nurses, there was a little problem called Jim Crow.  "Colored people" cleaned houses and office buildings, did landscaping, and had to go to separate schools, use separate restrooms, couldn't use the same public facilities as whites, etc... And certainly, a black man could not marry a white lady and my honey and I could not be together.

The 'fifties without Jim Crow, the Red Scare, homophobia, and the pervasive anti-feminism? We will likely get something like that -- if Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and the Hard Right don't get the last word in American politics. If they get their way, then America will be the sort of place in which young people develop some marketable skills quickly (because of all the opportunities to be underpaid and overworked) for more lucrative and satisfying use elsewhere. Or jobs in resorts in which one might have a chance to marry a foreigner and leave for a nicer part of the world.

But Donald Trump has channeled the sort of gutter racism that one used to associate with the Apartheid regime of South Africa... and We The People reject that or we have the sort of social order in which "sadness will follow you everywhere".

But after the fear, dislocation, and the destruction of the current Crisis Era; the depravity of the era of the Culture Wars; and the chaos of the Boom Awakening what will we want? A 1T could look very good.

[Emman85]

(12-06-2016, 11:41 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 02:58 AM)Tuss Wrote: Hello again, long time no see!

If you recall, I predicted Trump's presidential victory over at the old forum. I told you he would win the election, and suggested that Donald J. Trump was the GC. I found the combined message of  anti-laissez faire Rustbelt Nationalism, anti-establishment political punk rock and anti-immigration rhetoric irresistible. Here was the great synthesis, the Promethean spirit of our age, American style! And if it's right for America, soon enough a variant becomes the New Look of Europe as well, perhaps headed by our maiden of France, Marine Le Pen. That might have been over a year ago, I don't remember exactly, but back then not one of you wanted to believe me. Trump was just a clown and would be knocked out in the primaries. Well, for a few exceptions of course. Rags most likely, and perhaps one or two others with their heads screwed right and not inundated with Blue Pill soda.

Just wanted to put that down and bask in it for a while.  Apparently, sometimes you know the hearts and minds of the American people better than the Americans do themselves. 

Now, we just have to wait and see if he can form a useful cabinet to work for him, given the dysfunctional "insider"-pro mechanics of Washington and the fact that the Senate is dominated by the very Republican establishment that wants nothing less than to destroy him. As we have recently seen, it hasn't begun very well...

Barring that however, I suggest that in fact, we are indeed headed towards a new era and everything will Work Out Fine. Come the early 2020's, even the most log headed American pinko liberal leftie will realize there is Morning in America, and somehow we have collectively managed as a civilization to slip  into a new 1st Turning American High.

And if you look at it from the early 80's challenger's viewpoint, it all lines up neatly as well:

1st Turning: 1943-1963 (20 years)
2nd Turning: 1963-1980 (17 years)
3rd Turning: 1980-2001 (21 years)
4th Turnng: 2001-2022-ish? (21 years)

Soon it will be the 1950's all over again and things that were wronged from the Awakening to this day will be set back straight, yet on a higher level. Can't wait. Here we go...

Respectfully,
Tuss

What a load of bollocks. Trump is the typical sleazy sales puke. If he did not have seed money from his parents he'd probably have become a car salesman. The TV and "Idiotnet" addled masses fell for him because that is the type of marketing content their pea brains are awash in during most waking hours. Their brains are now attuned that that (low) level of rubbish.

Those dates are off too, I mean the 1T starting in the middle of World War 2 , but yeah we have a ways to go before we get to anything resembling a 1T. I'm thinking around 2028 or 2029 at least, the 4T is just now starting to ramp up, the post 911/ pre-recession '00s were prime 3T.

[Tuss]

(12-06-2016, 07:52 AM)Odin Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 02:58 AM)Tuss Wrote: Hello again, long time no see!

If you recall, I predicted Trump's presidential victory over at the old forum. I told you he would win the election, and suggested that Donald J. Trump was the GC. I found the combined message of  anti-laissez faire Rustbelt Nationalism, anti-establishment political punk rock and anti-immigration rhetoric irresistible. Here was the great synthesis, the Promethean spirit of our age, American style! And if it's right for America, soon enough a variant becomes the New Look of Europe as well, perhaps headed by our maiden of France, Marine Le Pen. That might have been over a year ago, I don't remember exactly, but back then not one of you wanted to believe me. Trump was just a clown and would be knocked out in the primaries. Well, for a few exceptions of course. Rags most likely, and perhaps one or two others with their heads screwed right and not inundated with Blue Pill soda.

Just wanted to put that down and bask in it for a while.  Apparently, sometimes you know the hearts and minds of the American people better than the Americans do themselves. 

Now, we just have to wait and see if he can form a useful cabinet to work for him, given the dysfunctional "insider"-pro mechanics of Washington and the fact that the Senate is dominated by the very Republican establishment that wants nothing less than to destroy him. As we have recently seen, it hasn't begun very well...

That would be tolerable if it weren't clear that all that rhetoric was 100% BS and the Trump Administration will be Tea Party Lassez-Faire "drown the government in a bathtub" idiocy on steroids. Trump is a con man and the working class just got conned.

I'm not ruling that out, and frankly, the appointments so far have mostly been worrying. If that's the case however, it's not only bad for the working class and the working class that got conned - to which I belong by the way - but for America as a whole and will probably mean a failed 4T. If the 4T is a failure, the entire cycle has been a failure and will likely go down in history as the period during which the United States were destroyed from within, turned into a burnt out carcass of its former glory and an insignificant and destitute backwater in the world.

[Tuss]

(12-07-2016, 01:48 AM)Emman85 Wrote: Those dates are off too, I mean the 1T starting in the middle of World War 2 , but yeah we have a ways to go before we get to anything resembling a 1T. I'm thinking around 2028 or 2029 at least, the 4T is just now starting to ramp up, the post 911/ pre-recession '00s were prime 3T.

The 1943 date was simply a mistake. I meant to write 1946 as per orthodox S&H. Instead, the first cohort birth year of the Boom sneaked in. The departure from S&H is instead in the timing of the 3T, which I and several others for a long time have claimed are incorrect as per TFT and on. Claiming that the 3T (obviously) began around 1980, and not in mid decade, is called being an "early 80's challenger" on this forum. I also subscribe to the view that our present Turning began in 2001 rather than 2008 (or 2005 etc).

[Tuss]

(12-06-2016, 11:41 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 02:58 AM)Tuss Wrote: Hello again, long time no see!

If you recall, I predicted Trump's presidential victory over at the old forum. I told you he would win the election, and suggested that Donald J. Trump was the GC. I found the combined message of  anti-laissez faire Rustbelt Nationalism, anti-establishment political punk rock and anti-immigration rhetoric irresistible. Here was the great synthesis, the Promethean spirit of our age, American style! And if it's right for America, soon enough a variant becomes the New Look of Europe as well, perhaps headed by our maiden of France, Marine Le Pen. That might have been over a year ago, I don't remember exactly, but back then not one of you wanted to believe me. Trump was just a clown and would be knocked out in the primaries. Well, for a few exceptions of course. Rags most likely, and perhaps one or two others with their heads screwed right and not inundated with Blue Pill soda.

Just wanted to put that down and bask in it for a while.  Apparently, sometimes you know the hearts and minds of the American people better than the Americans do themselves. 

Now, we just have to wait and see if he can form a useful cabinet to work for him, given the dysfunctional "insider"-pro mechanics of Washington and the fact that the Senate is dominated by the very Republican establishment that wants nothing less than to destroy him. As we have recently seen, it hasn't begun very well...

Barring that however, I suggest that in fact, we are indeed headed towards a new era and everything will Work Out Fine. Come the early 2020's, even the most log headed American pinko liberal leftie will realize there is Morning in America, and somehow we have collectively managed as a civilization to slip  into a new 1st Turning American High.

And if you look at it from the early 80's challenger's viewpoint, it all lines up neatly as well:

1st Turning: 1943-1963 (20 years)
2nd Turning: 1963-1980 (17 years)
3rd Turning: 1980-2001 (21 years)
4th Turnng: 2001-2022-ish? (21 years)

Soon it will be the 1950's all over again and things that were wronged from the Awakening to this day will be set back straight, yet on a higher level. Can't wait. Here we go...

Respectfully,
Tuss

What a load of bollocks. Trump is the typical sleazy sales puke. If he did not have seed money from his parents he'd probably have become a car salesman. The TV and "Idiotnet" addled masses fell for him because that is the type of marketing content their pea brains are awash in during most waking hours. Their brains are now attuned that that (low) level of rubbish.

That's nonsense of course. The working class chose him because he was the only candidate. They chose him despite these personal traits. You are simply underestimating the intelligence of the masses.

Trump won because of those points where he claimed to be a radical departure from a continued laissez-faire self destruction of the nation. Or differently put, mostly where he overlapped with the message of Sanders. To "her", on the other hand, we were just a basket of deplorables. In other words, if you have a playing card that says "2", and another that stays hidden, which will you play?

How honest was he with what points of his message? We don't exactly know. But his ideas on trade policy at least seem to have been fairly consistent since the 80's. So in that we are probably finding the true Trump. And that's almost good enough. It's a start. A departure.

But if so, the left hasn't been very helpful. Privileged and arrogant as always, they demand to have their red flag waving candidate or none at all. Like a spoiled kid, it's everything it wants or else burn it all to the ground. Not realizing that if they add their voices to the Beltway shrieking choir of hatred, they are simply externalizing Trump and diminishing the prospects of a successful administration that could prove beneficial for America (and the world). Pushing him out and into the arms Neocons who will simply say, "When no one else accept you, we will". And that's the one thing we don't want happening.

Provided Trump is not only a used car salesman, of course. There is, after all, room for doubt that the cabinet appointments/discussions recently are entirely to the president elect's liking or first choice of picks. Paul Craig Robert explains:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/12/...g-roberts/

Also, Paul Craig Roberts lays out several of the big and very real risks confronting Trump and an analysis of the situation in this interview, starting at approximately the 23:00 mark. Sure enough, this whole thing can totally crash and burn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEgmXmQbKfA

[Odin]

(12-06-2016, 09:00 PM)FLBones Wrote: The fifties were the last great era in America.

"Great" only for white men.

[pbrower2a]

(12-07-2016, 08:02 AM)Odin Wrote:

(12-06-2016, 09:00 PM)FLBones Wrote: The fifties were the last great era in America.

"Great" only for white men.

In the end I think that the era of American Greatness that Trump envisions is the 1920s... when Big Business was all-powerful, when WASP (and not simply white) privilege was the great social reality, when the 1915 KKK  was ahead of Hitler's crime syndicate in subverting democracy in their respective countries, and when economic reality was still that of a plantation society despite the 'high technology' of the time -- technology, which like radio and the automobile, would subvert the plutocratic culture.

I doubt that Trump would bring back Prohibition.

The 1920's? Truly a slum of a decade.

Does anyone want to go back to the 60-hour workweek? Because we really need to work only about 30 hours for a living standard of the 1950s (which would be tolerable) and allow a reasonable rate of return for capital, what would we get in return for more work, probably with no added pay? Maybe the dubious delight of witnessing the erection of palaces and castles from the greater profits exacted from productive workers?

I see his agenda putting America on the brink of a really nasty late stage of the Crisis. It cannot be the end; it is the beginning of the last stage.

[Emman85]

(12-07-2016, 03:00 AM)Tuss Wrote:

(12-07-2016, 01:48 AM)Emman85 Wrote: Those dates are off too, I mean the 1T starting in the middle of World War 2 , but yeah we have a ways to go before we get to anything resembling a 1T. I'm thinking around 2028 or 2029 at least, the 4T is just now starting to ramp up, the post 911/ pre-recession '00s were prime 3T.

The 1943 date was simply a mistake. I meant to write 1946 as per orthodox S&H. Instead, the first cohort birth year of the Boom sneaked in. The departure from S&H is instead in the timing of the 3T, which I and several others for a long time have claimed are incorrect as per TFT and on. Claiming that the 3T (obviously) began around 1980, and not in mid decade, is called being an "early 80's challenger" on this forum. I also subscribe to the view that our present Turning began in 2001 rather than 2008 (or 2005 etc).

I was wondering what you meant by early '80s challenger, my own view is that the awakening lasted until around 1983 or 1984, there was still too much '70s holdovers in 1980 and 1981(stagflation malaise, nuclear protests, ect), Reagan's first term was very contested. You should make a thread called early '80s challenger, that would be interesting to discuss in depth.

[Odin]

Tuss, it's also important for you to know that the current GOP is not like an ordinary political party you would be familiar with over in Europe, it's something more akin to a cult. Most self-identified Republicans will vote for their candidate no matter what and don't actually care about weather the candidate actually fulfills his/her campaign promises. Look at all the Orwellian doublespeak they are doing with regards about the Mexican wall now that Trump is backtracking, now all of a sudden his supporters insist he never said it would be an actual wall even though he actually did say it. This was not some victory of nationalism over cosmopolitan progressivism. Trump won not because a higher number than usual of white working class people voted for him, it was because a lot of progressive working class people in the rust belt didn't like Clinton because she was so deeply tied to the TPP and so they stayed home.

[Warren Dew]

(12-07-2016, 05:35 PM)Odin Wrote: Tuss, it's also important for you to know that the current GOP is not like an ordinary political party you would be familiar with over in Europe, it's something more akin to a cult. Most self-identified Republicans will vote for their candidate no matter what and don't actually care about weather the candidate actually fulfills his/her campaign promises. Look at all the Orwellian doublespeak they are doing with regards about the Mexican wall now that Trump is backtracking, now all of a sudden his supporters insist he never said it would be an actual wall even though he actually did say it. This was not some victory of nationalism over cosmopolitan progressivism. Trump won not because a higher number than usual of white working class people voted for him, it was because a lot of progressive working class people in the rust belt didn't like Clinton because she was so deeply tied to the TPP and so they stayed home.

The Republican party is far less cult like than the Democrats.  Even Bernie closed ranks behind Clinton on the Democrat side, while there were Republicans refusing to endorse Trump and even a few endorsing Clinton.

[pbrower2a]

(12-07-2016, 11:08 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(12-07-2016, 05:35 PM)Odin Wrote: Tuss, it's also important for you to know that the current GOP is not like an ordinary political party you would be familiar with over in Europe, it's something more akin to a cult. Most self-identified Republicans will vote for their candidate no matter what and don't actually care about weather the candidate actually fulfills his/her campaign promises. Look at all the Orwellian doublespeak they are doing with regards about the Mexican wall now that Trump is backtracking, now all of a sudden his supporters insist he never said it would be an actual wall even though he actually did say it. This was not some victory of nationalism over cosmopolitan progressivism. Trump won not because a higher number than usual of white working class people voted for him, it was because a lot of progressive working class people in the rust belt didn't like Clinton because she was so deeply tied to the TPP and so they stayed home.

The Republican party is far less cult like than the Democrats.  Even Bernie closed ranks behind Clinton on the Democrat side, while there were Republicans refusing to endorse Trump and even a few endorsing Clinton.

Less of a cult? Republican pols have been very much in lockstep over the last few years. Maybe they will begin to rift when they can completely ignore Democrats (except perhaps to punish them), much as other authoritarian parties (including fascists and Commies) have done in the past.

Donald Trump will Make America Great Again -- if you liked Romanov-era Russia.

[Odin]

(12-07-2016, 11:08 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(12-07-2016, 05:35 PM)Odin Wrote: Tuss, it's also important for you to know that the current GOP is not like an ordinary political party you would be familiar with over in Europe, it's something more akin to a cult. Most self-identified Republicans will vote for their candidate no matter what and don't actually care about weather the candidate actually fulfills his/her campaign promises. Look at all the Orwellian doublespeak they are doing with regards about the Mexican wall now that Trump is backtracking, now all of a sudden his supporters insist he never said it would be an actual wall even though he actually did say it. This was not some victory of nationalism over cosmopolitan progressivism. Trump won not because a higher number than usual of white working class people voted for him, it was because a lot of progressive working class people in the rust belt didn't like Clinton because she was so deeply tied to the TPP and so they stayed home.

The Republican party is far less cult like than the Democrats.  Even Bernie closed ranks behind Clinton on the Democrat side, while there were Republicans refusing to endorse Trump and even a few endorsing Clinton.

LOL, your projection is pathetic. The Dems exact problem is our inability to close ranks and keep purists from bolting to the Greens or from sitting out the election, while you guys will vote for a ham sandwich. This is another part of the GOP cult, constantly accusing liberals of doing exactly what you actually do.

[Warren Dew]

(12-08-2016, 02:15 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-07-2016, 11:08 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(12-07-2016, 05:35 PM)Odin Wrote: Tuss, it's also important for you to know that the current GOP is not like an ordinary political party you would be familiar with over in Europe, it's something more akin to a cult. Most self-identified Republicans will vote for their candidate no matter what and don't actually care about weather the candidate actually fulfills his/her campaign promises. Look at all the Orwellian doublespeak they are doing with regards about the Mexican wall now that Trump is backtracking, now all of a sudden his supporters insist he never said it would be an actual wall even though he actually did say it. This was not some victory of nationalism over cosmopolitan progressivism. Trump won not because a higher number than usual of white working class people voted for him, it was because a lot of progressive working class people in the rust belt didn't like Clinton because she was so deeply tied to the TPP and so they stayed home.

The Republican party is far less cult like than the Democrats.  Even Bernie closed ranks behind Clinton on the Democrat side, while there were Republicans refusing to endorse Trump and even a few endorsing Clinton.

Less of a cult? Republican pols have been very much in lockstep over the last few years.

You must not  have been following Republican politics over the last few years.  There was so much division the Republican Speaker was forced out.  Meanwhile the Democrats just stuck with Pelosi, despite her losing the House with her hard line progressivism.

[tg63]

you guys are funny. It's like you're fighting over which is more black, a deep cave on a moonless night, or a bottomless pit.