Rise Of Tribalism, Racism & Bigotry Most Associated With Which Turning & Why?

[Classic-Xer]

(05-06-2019, 07:33 PM)taramarie Wrote: I also have to ask.....what is heaven? For me it is an individual state of mind as well as a physical reality of life for people and animals alike on this earth. If in death I see my loved ones all together waiting for me whether it is in the stereotype of heaven or not, its still something that would be lovely for me to see my loved ones and be with them once more. That would be my definition of heaven. Everyone has their own definition I believe.

I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. I know some people who had a glimpse of what heaven is like. According to them, it's a very peaceful/tranquil  environment/ experience for them. One person told that he was pretty upset about the doctors bringing him back to life. I think most people have their own view of heaven and understanding of what heaven is for them. I'd say most view it the same way as you. Heaven is the place where you get to see and be with your loved ones again for eternity. Me, I never had the feeling my loved ones ever left. I've always felt their presence in my life. I think my daughter has met my grandmother. I knew the moment when my grandmother passed away. I knew the moment when my aunt passed away. I knew the moment when my father passed away. Were they all coincidences? I don't think so. I wasn't raised a believer. I was raised agnostic. I became a believer. I often get the impression that I'm a life traveler. In other words, I have a strong feeling that I've lived before and most likely will live again. I don't know, I can't say for sure because it's just a feeling of mine.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-07-2019, 09:20 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-06-2019, 02:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, you probably won't get the chance to see/experience heaven. Do you have a problem with accepting that probability as a reality when the time comes?

High on my list of extreme improbabilities is the concept that a supreme being would be so petulant and petty that failing to believe in his/her meme would make you a permanent exile from his/her heaven.  It's irrationality at its worst.

Dude, Heaven's doors aren't open to the public. One has to please Jesus and prove themselves worthy of belonging before entering Heaven. I wonder what Queen Nancy going to do when she learns that her ticket that she purchased for herself is fake and learns that Jesus is an asshole doesn't care how important she thinks she is or how much she's spent making herself look good to everyone else.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-11-2019, 03:47 AM)TheNomad Wrote: Since you don't know, it all began due to a user here using racial slurs in a thread I created.  I did not want to be associated with that, no one listened to me.

The immoral moderator named Ragnarok had nothing to do or say about people openly using NIGGER to make their point, but came at me bright and early about "threat to SPAM".  That person took no side ....... except, she did.  She used her POWER here to delete certain things and leave others based on her own ideology. 

It's disgusting and wrong.

I know of one recent incident involving the use of that term here. I thought the poster actually did a pretty good job with the way they used the term as a means to teach others about their ability separate themselves from the term and prove that they're independent from those the term more directly applies to these days and those using it for there own interests. As I recall, the poster who did that was Kinser. I also recall being accused of being involved with racism by a liberal black woman who used the term as means to describe what she had been taught as being my personal my view of her and what she had been taught to believe as being the reason for my negative feelings/ opinions toward her and the liberal groups that she identifies with and associates with and my supposed opinion/view of all those who have same color of skin as her as if I've never seen black people or never entered a black community and never have spoken to different black people during my life. As it turned out, she understood the obvious difference between her and a typical nigger. She was clearly able to separate herself from them and she quickly learned that I recognized and understood the difference between her and the typical niggers too. It's to bad that it took a powerful move and the use of some rather tough eye opening/ mind opening rhetoric and a humbling experience to force her to rethink and accept the personal need to change some of her wayward liberal views of middle America today. I didn't intend to completely reveal her personal insecurities and completely embarrass her and completely scare her off as occurred. All I intended to do was wise her up to the fact that the street wise American people substantially outnumber the exclusively liberal educated/ liberal influenced by a significant amount these days. BTW, the negative term that bothers you so much bothers me as much as the terms honky, cracker, racist, fascist, fucker, asshole or dickhead.

[Kinser79]

(05-11-2019, 04:36 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The only valid use of the N-word is reportage, and that usually implies a display of contempt for the person who uses the word, as in "The Grand Dragon called the President of Howard University a n----r". Kinser is wrong to call black people that he holds in contempt "n----rs" because the sort of person who calls the President of Howard University a "n----r" out of contempt for all black people may intend the same fate for both the black bourgeoisie (who are generally good and likable people) and such losers as dopers and criminals to a similar fate, the equivalent of Zyklon-B in a gas chamber made to look like a shower. After all, it is the black bourgeoisie that is far more dangerous to the sick ideals of white supremacy and white identity because it is able to seduce white people to have black spouses -- and black children, the worst offense to white racists.

I am convinced that the people most vulnerable to genocide in America in the wake of a Hitler-like leader are the model minorities. The petty criminals are already defensive about everything involving the government, and they might be useful to a genocidal regime as kapos in the camps because they are accustomed to doing bad things to people. I believe it was Primo Levi who described a kapo, relating what one such traitor said to people who had played by the rules. Rough quote:

Are there any magistrates or attorneys here? I am a criminal, a killer. The world that you have known has turned upside down. We, the criminals, are the bosses here, and we now judge you. I am organizing a Scheisskomando, and you are going to clean the toilets.  


The successful members of any discernible minority that a criminal regime targets for annihilation will go to the shooting pits or the gas chambers having no clue about what they did to deserve what is happening to them. This is a 4T, the time in which the worst things are possible. German Jews were the definitive "model minority". They had never done anything to deserve hatred, abuse, and annihilation. But I can say that of the victims of many crimes.

...It is essential that we all watch the State for any tendencies to single out people for abuse, whether verbal, economic, or physical. It all begins with putting people into neat categories that come to mean who gets the goodies and who loses.

By the way -- I strongly disparage  the use of derogatory language about white people from some disadvantaged parts of America where educational standards are low and economic opportunities have largely vanished.

PBR as ever you're wrong, totally wrong.  Nigger is a valid word and is as usuable as any other word.  In fact I tend to use it precisely for its shock value to white liberals.  Non-Liberal whites might be offended by the word, but are not shocked by it.  As to the President of Howard University...is he a nigger?  I don't know.  He certainly speaks the queen's English, and apparently holds down a job.  That in and of itself should separate him from niggers and make him simply a black person.

Also your views on the black bourgeoisie are wrong.  In a truly racist order--which the US is not--there wouldn't be a black bourgeoisie at all.  Strangely it seems that most of the policies espoused by the Democratic Party in particular are designed to destroy the black bourgeoisie which is the vanguard of Black Advancement.  Strangely this is the same party that ran the Jim Crow South, and nearly every confederate was a Democrat too--I say nearly because I'm sure there were a few lingering Whigs.

If anything the election of Trump and the repudiation of the identity politics of the Democratic Party not only leads us to the prevention of a Hitler-like figure from arising but should one arise, it would arise from the Left anyway.  Which is hardly a surprise when one stops to consider that Nazi is an abbreviation of National Socialist in the German. 

As I've pointed out the main difference between Marxian Socialism and National Socialism is the direction of nationalism vs internationalism.  Both are murderous ideologies that must be opposed by any liberty loving person--and any True American in particular.

I hope you live to see that you're on the wrong side of history as the Left loves to say.

[Kinser79]

(05-11-2019, 09:05 PM)TheNomad Wrote:

(05-11-2019, 07:56 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-11-2019, 05:23 PM)taramarie Wrote: If you mean farming and our 21st century cities, every country has this. But I do not understand what this has to do with how a person behaves. Very curious yet confusing.

He's insulting you for not being an American Tara.

Not surprising really...SJW types always lie and they always project.

The fact she didnt even know she was being insulted..... and here you come............... LIKE EVE WITH THE FRUIT!......... opening her eyes to something that might have caused offense.

Are you the least spiritual-minded person in this room?

Do you know what is spirit?

Why do you want to cause problems?  The things you are doing have effects on others.  The things you say affect others.  You just do not care.  Roaming in social media trying to stir up as much sludge and trauma?  WHY are you here?  For real, Helen, WHAT is your intention here or elsewhere for that matter?

What are you doing?  Can you describe it?

The reason why I'm here is self-evident if one bothers to actually read my posts.  That being said I'm not responsible for the actions of others or how they interpret my actions.

Does that mean I lack 'spirituality'?  Maybe.  But I can't say that I actually care all that much for 'spirituality' which is mostly pie in the sky nonsense when it isn't an open con-job.

The question really should be why are you here.  I've yet to see any added value from your presence.  Though I have been amused by your antics.  But then again this forum is cheaper than cable and the actors typically follow better scripts than anything coming out of Hollyweird.

[TheNomad]

(05-12-2019, 05:25 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: The reason why I'm here is self-evident if one bothers to actually read my posts.  That being said I'm not responsible for the actions of others or how they interpret my actions.

Does that mean I lack 'spirituality'? 

You dont know what is spirituality even tho I keep saying it.

You say you are not responsible for the actions of others how they interpret you.  Even tho you claim to be from the hood or in the hood or drove through the hood or took pics of the hood from afar or whatever............... even though you claim to be familiar with how those words affect people, you still using them, dragging in MORE hateful words and phrases, and all the rest of the ugly words saying IF it hurts someone, you are not responsible.

But that person or people were not hurt UNTIL you started running your mouth.

The unspiritual person says "MY FREEDOM IS WHAT MATTERS.  MY FREEDOM TO SAY ANYTHING MATTERS MORE!"

The spiritual person says "THAT SHIT MAY HARM OTHERS, I DONT KNOW WHAT EVERYONE IS THINKING, I AM NOT GOD, MAYBE I SHOULD KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT".

You have the freedom to say any damned thing you want.  You also have the freedom to choose not to potentially harm people -- ESPECIALLY when you claim to know how that shit can affect others.

You have freedom!  WHICH freedom do you choose?  Obviously the one where YOUR freedom to speak is the most important part and where you have absolutely no accountability for your actions.

Or, are you so defined by these words and the hate coming through those words that you cannot exist without them?   You cannot stop using those words because if you did, SOMEONE MIGHT USE THEM ON YOU FIRST.  Point to the "nigger" to deflect anyone from calling you that word.    

Drive Not The Bus Over My People As Scapegoat
Sell Not My People For Social Gain
Demean Not My People To Raise Yourself In The Eyes Of Others

[Classic-Xer]

(05-12-2019, 10:01 PM)TheNomad Wrote:

(05-12-2019, 05:25 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: The reason why I'm here is self-evident if one bothers to actually read my posts.  That being said I'm not responsible for the actions of others or how they interpret my actions.

Does that mean I lack 'spirituality'? 

You dont know what is spirituality even tho I keep saying it.

You say you are not responsible for the actions of others how they interpret you.  Even tho you claim to be from the hood or in the hood or drove through the hood or took pics of the hood from afar or whatever............... even though you claim to be familiar with how those words affect people, you still using them, dragging in MORE hateful words and phrases,  and all the rest of the ugly words saying IF it hurts someone, you are not responsible.

But that person or people were not hurt UNTIL you started running your mouth.

The unspiritual person says "MY FREEDOM IS WHAT MATTERS.  MY FREEDOM TO SAY ANYTHING MATTERS MORE!"

The spiritual person says "THAT SHIT MAY HARM OTHERS, I DONT KNOW WHAT EVERYONE IS THINKING, I AM NOT GOD, MAYBE I SHOULD KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT".

You have the freedom to say any damned thing you want.  You also have the freedom to choose not to potentially harm people -- ESPECIALLY when you claim to know how that shit can affect others.

You have freedom!  WHICH freedom do you choose?  Obviously the one where YOUR freedom to speak is the most important part and where you have absolutely no accountability for your actions.

Or, are you so defined by these words and the hate coming through those words that you cannot exist without them?   You cannot stop using those words because if you did, SOMEONE MIGHT USE THEM ON YOU FIRST.  Point to the "nigger" to deflect anyone from calling you that word.    

Drive Not The Bus Over My People As Scapegoat
Sell Not My People For Social Gain
Demean Not My People To Raise Yourself In The Eyes Of Others

He probably knows what it is and he's waiting for you to show him how much you actually know about it. So far, you haven't shown me any signs of actually knowing anything about spirituality. Right now, I have you in the same boat relying upon his lack of spirituality to guide you across unknown waters without a map or compass. Good luck. The odds of surviving aren't at all in your favor.

[Kinser79]

(05-12-2019, 10:01 PM)TheNomad Wrote: You dont know what is spirituality even tho I keep saying it.

What passes for 'spirituality' on this forum is wide and varied. Since I don't know what you mean that is why I asked for clarification. If you mean do I subscribe to a particular set of religious beliefs, I do not unless one wants to retcon Atheism into being a religion, which to me is about the same as calling baldness a hair color.

Quote:You say you are not responsible for the actions of others how they interpret you.

I'm not. I have no control over how other people act or what they think. I'm also not subject to the consequences of how they act or what they think unless they make either my problem themselves.

 

Quote:Even tho you claim to be from the hood or in the hood or drove through the hood or took pics of the hood from afar or whatever...............

Actually I never made any such claim. I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth, thank you.

Quote:even though you claim to be familiar with how those words affect people, you still using them, dragging in MORE hateful words and phrases, and all the rest of the ugly words saying IF it hurts someone, you are not responsible.

Any person who is hurt by the use of the word is honestly too weak to survive in the hood. Or for that matter lilly white suburbia, or anywhere that isn't a padded cell. This leads me to conclude you are not in fact a nomad at all (unless you mean in the sense that must frequently move due to wearing out your welcome). If anything the very notion that words can 'hurt' others as if they were a physical attack to me reeks of coddled blue Millie SJW. I know how to deal with those, they always lie and they always project.

Quote:But that person or people were not hurt UNTIL you started running your mouth.

US Jurisprudence is clear that speech is not violence and violence is not speech. Anyone who reacts to something I say in the same manner as if I physically assaulted them better get a helmet because the world is a tough place and there are far meaner individuals than myself.

Quote:The unspiritual person says "MY FREEDOM IS WHAT MATTERS.  MY FREEDOM TO SAY ANYTHING MATTERS MORE!"

To me it does. If that makes me 'unspiritual' so be it.

Quote:The spiritual person says "THAT SHIT MAY HARM OTHERS, I DONT KNOW WHAT EVERYONE IS THINKING, I AM NOT GOD, MAYBE I SHOULD KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT".

So in order to be 'spiritual' one must self-censor because someone else whose thoughts, reactions, and opinions they have no control over might be offended. I hate to tell you this, buddy, but that means such a 'spiritual' person cannot say anything at all. It doesn't matter what you say someone somewhere will be offended by it.

So then the choice is clear: Be a spiritual hypocrite or be un-spiritual. To me there is nothing more offensive than being a hypocrite (even though I know I fail at not being that) and I do have control over my own actions, thoughts and words so I'll chose being un-spiritual.

The rest of your post is just you spewing nonsense so I won't bother with my point by point take down.

[Kinser79]

(05-13-2019, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: He probably knows what it is and he's waiting for you to show him how much you actually know about it. So far, you haven't shown me any signs of actually knowing anything about spirituality. Right now, I have you in the same boat relying upon his lack of spirituality to guide you across unknown waters without a map or compass. Good luck. The odds of surviving aren't at all  in your favor.

I don't know Classic.  I'm unlikely to follow him anywhere.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-04-2019, 05:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-03-2019, 01:00 AM)TheNomad Wrote: When is bigotry and racism or hatred and tribalism happening most in American civilization according to past Turnings?

In what Turning (of the four laid out by S&H) are these things happening the most?

Why does it seem that America always descends into factions during certain Turnings?  The idea of building walls and "grouping up" seems to make sense to many while in that period.  Folks are more willing to be against others and have no desire to "meld" with neighbors. 

When this is happening, is it a peak idea we can look at as to WHEN certain Turnings are happening?

Such as:

Where inside the Turning we are.  Beginning?  Middle?  End?  Does it correlate directly to the Turning?  When these things are at the societal zenith, we might be right in the Middle.  Or, if we see it happening, the Beginning.  Or, if it is getting resolved, the End?

I'd say it is strongest from third turnings to early 1st turnings, with some kind of climax in 4th turnings.

We are certainly experiencing it now, in the middle of a 4th turning. Racism received a major correction in the sixties, but the backlash and southern strategy has grown as a reaction and retrenchment to this, and now has been stoked for a rebirth by Trump and his fear-mongering about immigrants.

Racism was strong in the mid-1920s in the late 3rd turning, with the revival of the KKK and promotion of eugenics in the 1920s and 1930s, which was eagerly taken up by the Nazis in the fourth turning, which presented virulent racism as a threat to the United States and other liberal-democratic countries in World War II. Also, anti-immigration sentiment was strong in the 1920s and 30s and led to the anti-immigrant law of 1924. 

The American Party or Know-Nothings sought to keep America white and protestant, for fear the American traditions would be ruined, in the 1850s-- a fourth turning as I see it. In Europe in the same decade, scientific racism received great boosts from the theories of Darwin, Spencer and Gobineau. This helped to stoke the nationalist wars by Bismarck, Cavour, and Jefferson Davis in the 1860s 4th turning. Reconstruction saw the birth of the KKK in the reunited states in the late 1860s, early 1st turning. The Chinese exclusion act of 1882 came late in a 1st turning.

The alien act was a major component of the post-revolution era, early 1st turning.

I'd say it peaked during the 60's (2T) and has declined to the point of needing a bit of revival to keep it in business today.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-13-2019, 06:42 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: He probably knows what it is and he's waiting for you to show him how much you actually know about it. So far, you haven't shown me any signs of actually knowing anything about spirituality. Right now, I have you in the same boat relying upon his lack of spirituality to guide you across unknown waters without a map or compass. Good luck. The odds of surviving aren't at all  in your favor.

I don't know Classic.  I'm unlikely to follow him anywhere.

Well, he brought it up with me as something special that he had over me some time ago. So, I tested him and he failed miserably. As far as I can see, the dude has an internet connection and access to a steady flow/pool of young impressionable/naive people to draw from and market himself and sell his ideas and that's it as far his understanding of real spirituality goes. You'd think he'd learn that there is a risk of tangling with people who are actually spiritual in nature. I remember the day when Eric and others reigned supreme and their only resistance was an ex drunk who found Jesus who was emotionally limited as far as the amount of intimidation, fear and negative criticism that he could handle. Look at him now, a poor liberal who is still clinging to a piece of a forum that he lost a war over the control of a long time ago.

[Kinser79]

(05-13-2019, 11:01 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 06:42 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: He probably knows what it is and he's waiting for you to show him how much you actually know about it. So far, you haven't shown me any signs of actually knowing anything about spirituality. Right now, I have you in the same boat relying upon his lack of spirituality to guide you across unknown waters without a map or compass. Good luck. The odds of surviving aren't at all  in your favor.

I don't know Classic.  I'm unlikely to follow him anywhere.

Well, he brought it up with me as something special that he had over me some time ago. So, I tested him and he failed miserably. As far as I can see, the dude has an internet connection and access to a steady flow/pool of young impressionable/naive people to draw from and market himself and sell his ideas and that's it as far his understanding of real spirituality goes. You'd think he'd learn that there is a risk of tangling with people who are actually spiritual in nature. I remember the day when Eric and others reigned supreme and their only resistance was an ex drunk who found Jesus who was emotionally limited as far as the amount of intimidation, fear and negative criticism that he could handle. Look at him now, a poor liberal who is still clinging to a piece of a forum that he lost a war over the control of a long time ago.

Indeed.  Perhaps one of the reasons why I stick to the matterial world then.  It is easy to research things, find evidence, and etc.

As for Eric, I was never truly impressed with him.  But he could have been a defeated foe long before I arrived in 08.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-13-2019, 07:20 AM)taramarie Wrote: You don't know it either matey. It is not about suppressing yourself for one thing. That will only create a toxic inner core which will come out in other not so healthy ways.

Never saw him say this. Great story!

Wrong. Go check out tantra.

We agree on this one. I personally rather not be deliberately nasty, but I am human and not perfect. But it is also good to not suppress yourself either and work on it in healthier ways.    However that said, anyone can interpret any of your own actions in any way they want. You are a fine example of this. Also my partners mother for that matter. You cannot control how others interpret what you say or do. Some people have a lens on the world where they see only what is already within themselves, and be damned if the other person involved never meant it in the way it was interpreted by the less than healthy recipient of the discussion. Here is a relevant video on the subject.

To be honest, she didn't do a very good job convincing that he really did something bad so my perception of him remained the same.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-13-2019, 11:21 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 11:01 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 06:42 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-13-2019, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: He probably knows what it is and he's waiting for you to show him how much you actually know about it. So far, you haven't shown me any signs of actually knowing anything about spirituality. Right now, I have you in the same boat relying upon his lack of spirituality to guide you across unknown waters without a map or compass. Good luck. The odds of surviving aren't at all  in your favor.

I don't know Classic.  I'm unlikely to follow him anywhere.

Well, he brought it up with me as something special that he had over me some time ago. So, I tested him and he failed miserably. As far as I can see, the dude has an internet connection and access to a steady flow/pool of young impressionable/naive people to draw from and market himself and sell his ideas and that's it as far his understanding of real spirituality goes. You'd think he'd learn that there is a risk of tangling with people who are actually spiritual in nature. I remember the day when Eric and others reigned supreme and their only resistance was an ex drunk who found Jesus who was emotionally limited as far as the amount of intimidation, fear and negative criticism that he could handle. Look at him now, a poor liberal who is still clinging to a piece of a forum that he lost a war over the control of a long time ago.

Indeed.  Perhaps one of the reasons why I stick to the matterial world then.  It is easy to research things, find evidence, and etc.

As for Eric, I was never truly impressed with him.  But he could have been a defeated foe long before I arrived in 08.

I arrived in 03'/04'. You should have seen the waves of so called liberals or blues/ traditional Democratic supporters/wimpy pink turn coats resistance that I faced back then. I was looking at a big task and a major challenge that a typical blue elitist would probably view as impossible for a typical red of some sort who didn't even have a college degree to accomplish at the time.

[pbrower2a]

(05-13-2019, 10:00 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(05-04-2019, 05:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-03-2019, 01:00 AM)TheNomad Wrote: When is bigotry and racism or hatred and tribalism happening most in American civilization according to past Turnings?

In what Turning (of the four laid out by S&H) are these things happening the most?

Why does it seem that America always descends into factions during certain Turnings?  The idea of building walls and "grouping up" seems to make sense to many while in that period.  Folks are more willing to be against others and have no desire to "meld" with neighbors. 

When this is happening, is it a peak idea we can look at as to WHEN certain Turnings are happening?

Such as:

Where inside the Turning we are.  Beginning?  Middle?  End?  Does it correlate directly to the Turning?  When these things are at the societal zenith, we might be right in the Middle.  Or, if we see it happening, the Beginning.  Or, if it is getting resolved, the End?

I'd say it is strongest from third turnings to early 1st turnings, with some kind of climax in 4th turnings.

We are certainly experiencing it now, in the middle of a 4th turning. Racism received a major correction in the sixties, but the backlash and southern strategy has grown as a reaction and retrenchment to this, and now has been stoked for a rebirth by Trump and his fear-mongering about immigrants.

Racism was strong in the mid-1920s in the late 3rd turning, with the revival of the KKK and promotion of eugenics in the 1920s and 1930s, which was eagerly taken up by the Nazis in the fourth turning, which presented virulent racism as a threat to the United States and other liberal-democratic countries in World War II. Also, anti-immigration sentiment was strong in the 1920s and 30s and led to the anti-immigrant law of 1924. 

The American Party or Know-Nothings sought to keep America white and protestant, for fear the American traditions would be ruined, in the 1850s-- a fourth turning as I see it. In Europe in the same decade, scientific racism received great boosts from the theories of Darwin, Spencer and Gobineau. This helped to stoke the nationalist wars by Bismarck, Cavour, and Jefferson Davis in the 1860s 4th turning. Reconstruction saw the birth of the KKK in the reunited states in the late 1860s, early 1st turning. The Chinese exclusion act of 1882 came late in a 1st turning.

The alien act was a major component of the post-revolution era, early 1st turning.

I'd say it peaked during the 60's (2T) and has declined to the point of needing a bit of  revival to keep it in business today.

Trying to connect bigotry and the turnings:

The 4T is the time with the greatest potential for massacres, genocide, and apocalyptic war based upon a division of Humanity into Good and Evil often defined by nationality, race, religion, or region. At the end of the 4T people come to realize that much that they were told was completely wrong. I can only imagine how different the German image of Jews was in 1946 from what it was when Hitler, Goebbels, Streicher, et al were demonizing them. Many Germans came to recognize that the corpses stacked like cord wood while on guided tours (the guides being British or American troops) of concentration camps had been human beings more like them than the monsters of Nazi propaganda. I can only imagine what German civilians who experienced such guided tours thought. American male soldiers propagandized on Japan as the barbarous people who abused American and other Western prisoners at Bataan and other such horrors but then got to do occupation duty frequently ended up with Japanese wives. Nobody had told them that Japan had a distinguished and sophisticated culture during the war, and some GIs discovered the reality among people who had recently imitated white racism only to place themselves at the apex of the human pecking order.

The world practically turns upside down from the 4T to the 1T in its attitudes. People get sick of mass retribution, as there is plenty of blame and shame on all sides -- and people want to get their lives back together. Figure that many WWII veterans were nearly 30 at the end of the war, and they had no desire to examine the inner world when their conventional desires had been put off 'for the duration'. They want social and economic stability with clear definition of human roles that make life predictable. New or revived hierarchies form quickly. As an example, Polish-Americans and Italian-Americans were largely seen as losers in social-economic status. Some made rank quickly during the War, and the Polish joke that one might have said to "Stanley ...ski" when he was a factory worker was something that one did not say to COLONEL Stanley...ski toward the end of the war -- or later, when you met him at the VFW. Groups and their roles are well defined. Life was still awful in the ghetto, barrio, or Reservation, or Backwoods.

In a 2T people start to question the social hierarchies and the assumptions. Think of the musical Hair, in which young Boomers (yes, all X, Millennial, and post-Millennial readers, we really were young forty years ago) question the male chauvinism, corporate culture, sexual taboos, and ethnic hierarchy that people usually thought little of challenging in the 1950s but got jaded of if they did not know the Crisis of 1940. Thus Woodstock. The feminine ideal goes from Doris Day to Peggy Lipton (they will be missed!) in a short time. Confrontation begins between 'squares' and the 'hip'.

In a 3T the intellectual challenge fades in favor of unprincipled hedonism early during the Unraveling, although that trend sets in in late in the 2T in such areas as sport and popular music. Commercial interests start to find ways to profit on the changed culture, and people accept new norms. But scummy behavior sets in. As the Unraveling becomes a Degeneracy, business practices and politics debase. The confrontational style intensifies in the public debate, and people are more concerned with convincing others than in objective truth. People who believe in little become purely commercial -- and easy marks for the equivalents of supply-side ideology.

In a 4T events require a sudden and severe accounting for the depraved behavior, the social equivalent of a hoard of oily rags that can catch fire in spontaneous combustion. Ruthless demagogues find ready scapegoats -- like successful 'model minorities' and anyone on the fringe of toleration. In a 'moderate' form such is Donald Trump, and at the worst is Lev Trotsky or Adolf Hitler. Basic realities that people have neglected start hitting people hard. We Americans may be fortunate in simply getting a hard lesson in civics without the mass destruction and genocide of WW II. The Germans and Japanese did not have it so easy.

[pbrower2a]

(05-11-2019, 07:46 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: PBR as ever you're wrong, totally wrong.  Nigger is a valid word and is as usable as any other word.  In fact I tend to use it precisely for its shock value to white liberals.  Non-Liberal whites might be offended by the word, but are not shocked by it.  As to the President of Howard University...is he a nigger?  I don't know.  He certainly speaks the queen's English, and apparently holds down a job.  That in and of itself should separate him from niggers and make him simply a black person.

It is still an insult. I am about half English and Welsh and about half German and Swiss with other components in traces. I do not call people "limeys" or "krauts", either of which would be offensive. I can assure you that in some Klavern, a word that you would take offense at hearing directed at you is used a lot. It is used against all blacks. If the KKK fascists in that Klavern ever met Clarence Thomas and did not know who he is, then I can predict the word that they would hurl at him.

Remember -- the biggest fear of a white racist of a certain type is race-mixing, especially the sort that culminates in a black baby emerging from the vagina of a white woman. The black bourgeoisie is most likely to commit that equivalent of Rassenschande. 

Quote:Also your views on the black bourgeoisie are wrong.  In a truly racist order--which the US is not--there wouldn't be a black bourgeoisie at all.  Strangely it seems that most of the policies espoused by the Democratic Party in particular are designed to destroy the black bourgeoisie which is the vanguard of Black Advancement.  Strangely this is the same party that ran the Jim Crow South, and nearly every confederate was a Democrat too--I say nearly because I'm sure there were a few lingering Whigs.

Did I compare contemporary America to Nazi Germany, to Apartheid-era South Africa, or even to the segregationist South of the past? Yes, black people have problems of social acceptance in some circles... but who would not have a problem in some circles? Much progress has been made in desegregating schools, public accommodations, and even real estate. Yes, there remains some racial profiling, and it is wise that blacks who go shopping dress up so that they will not be confused with shoplifters. If one is a black or Hispanic woman in an upper-middle-class neighborhood one wisely dresses in such a way that leaves no confusion that she is a maid.

But that is small stuff in contrast to what blacks used to experience. Discrimination is far less a problem than is inadequate education. Black people who put the same value on formal education as the stereotypical "Tiger Mom" will have kids who can compete with the kids of the stereotypical "Tiger Mom". Of course the kids miss out on television and video games. Aw, too bad! 

Quote:If anything the election of Trump and the repudiation of the identity politics of the Democratic Party not only leads us to the prevention of a Hitler-like figure from arising but should one arise, it would arise from the Left anyway.  Which is hardly a surprise when one stops to consider that Nazi is an abbreviation of National Socialist in the German. 

Uh... no. The Democratic Party has constituency groups that include people that identity politics burns. The Republican Party now has the people who would impose a high-tech version of feudalism if they could get away with it. If you want to know what people are now most attracted to identity politics -- it is poor, undereducated white people who somehow believe that their whiteness entitles them to privilege. As for Nazis being 'socialists' -- there really were some Nazis who wanted the Nazi Party go go socialist, like Otto Roehm and Anton Strasser, both murdered during the Night of the Long Knives for insisting on the "socialist" part of National Socialism -- massive nationalization of Big Business. Nazism well served the existing cartels and trusts that then dominated the German economy and gave German workers the lowest industrial wages in Europe.

Calling attention to the "Socialist" part of the self-description of the Nazi Party is like accepting as truth the self description of North Korea as the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". North Korea is Korean as opposed to something else, but otherwise it is in no way democratic, it grossly misrepresents the interests of any part of the Korean People except for the communist party, and it is not even a republic but instead an absolute monarchy.

Quote:As I've pointed out the main difference between Marxian Socialism and National Socialism is the direction of nationalism vs internationalism.  Both are murderous ideologies that must be opposed by any liberty loving person--and any True American in particular.

I assure you that many American commies consider themselves as truly American as Kluxers mostly consider themselves truly American. Heck, serial killer Ted Bundy and mass-murderer Timothy McVeigh were undeniably American. As far as that goes, an F5 tornado that sweeps through the American Midwest is American too. Yes, i associate Communism with a horrendous loss of personal freedom, the elimination of meaningful justice, and a high body count. I see "democratic centralism" as the cornerstone of the lack of democracy in all previous and existing Commie regimes -- the leadership makes the decisions and nobody can ever seek to reverse such a decision.

This said, Karl Marx got something very right, and it has yet to be disproved: that the working man has nothing to sell but his labor, and his labor is no longer desired, then he is completely expendable.

Quote:I hope you live to see that you're on the wrong side of history as the Left loves to say.

That is more likely what will happen to you, and not because you are black, gay, or a capitalist.

[pbrower2a]

(05-13-2019, 07:20 AM)taramarie Wrote: You don't know it either matey. It is not about suppressing yourself for one thing. That will only create a toxic inner core which will come out in other not so healthy ways.

Never saw him say this. Great story!

Wrong. Go check out tantra.

We agree on this one. I personally rather not be deliberately nasty, but I am human and not perfect. But it is also good to not suppress yourself either and work on it in healthier ways.    However that said, anyone can interpret any of your own actions in any way they want. You are a fine example of this. Also my partners mother for that matter. You cannot control how others interpret what you say or do. Some people have a lens on the world where they see only what is already within themselves, and be damned if the other person involved never meant it in the way it was interpreted by the less than healthy recipient of the discussion. Here is a relevant video on the subject.

I saw the video, and after I saw the life-coach giving some bland advice on success -- with the host then 'exposing' him as a violent person I saw the fellow again, and I looked for some traits of a sociopath, the person who seems too good to be true and then proves rotten under the surface. I saw charm... and sociopaths usually charm people quickly (they have short time spans in which to do harm) so that they can swindle, cheat, or abuse their victims -- people that they can get to let down their guard. I have two second cousins who are sociopaths -- and they are charmers. One of them makes deals with public officials -- in strip clubs. Another became an accountant and worked for a hospital -- and drained company assets as an embezzler.

I think of what I would have done had I been in the accountant's place. He was making good money off his salary alone. Surely he got much help from his grandparents and  might have been able to send them off on a second honeymoon -- somewhere in Europe. To be sure, his wife was something of a problem; her house was a regular stop for UPS to drop off stuff that she bought on a shopping channel. I can imagine wining and dining people on an expense account, but not in strip clubs.

I hope that those two fellows do not read what I have written.

[Hintergrund]

Back to topic: I'd say the ideas behind it crop up in 2Ts, but they really spread throughout the population in 3Ts.

[Kinser79]

(05-14-2019, 02:21 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(05-11-2019, 07:46 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: PBR as ever you're wrong, totally wrong.  Nigger is a valid word and is as usable as any other word.  In fact I tend to use it precisely for its shock value to white liberals.  Non-Liberal whites might be offended by the word, but are not shocked by it.  As to the President of Howard University...is he a nigger?  I don't know.  He certainly speaks the queen's English, and apparently holds down a job.  That in and of itself should separate him from niggers and make him simply a black person.

It is still an insult. I am about half English and Welsh and about half German and Swiss with other components in traces. I do not call people "limeys" or "krauts", either of which would be offensive. I can assure you that in some Klavern, a word that you would take offense at hearing directed at you is used a lot. It is used against all blacks. If the KKK fascists in that Klavern ever met Clarence Thomas and did not know who he is, then I can predict the word that they would hurl at him.

Remember -- the biggest fear of a white racist of a certain type is race-mixing, especially the sort that culminates in a black baby emerging from the vagina of a white woman. The black bourgeoisie is most likely to commit that equivalent of Rassenschande. 

Quote:Also your views on the black bourgeoisie are wrong.  In a truly racist order--which the US is not--there wouldn't be a black bourgeoisie at all.  Strangely it seems that most of the policies espoused by the Democratic Party in particular are designed to destroy the black bourgeoisie which is the vanguard of Black Advancement.  Strangely this is the same party that ran the Jim Crow South, and nearly every confederate was a Democrat too--I say nearly because I'm sure there were a few lingering Whigs.

Did I compare contemporary America to Nazi Germany, to Apartheid-era South Africa, or even to the segregationist South of the past? Yes, black people have problems of social acceptance in some circles... but who would not have a problem in some circles? Much progress has been made in desegregating schools, public accommodations, and even real estate. Yes, there remains some racial profiling, and it is wise that blacks who go shopping dress up so that they will not be confused with shoplifters. If one is a black or Hispanic woman in an upper-middle-class neighborhood one wisely dresses in such a way that leaves no confusion that she is a maid.

But that is small stuff in contrast to what blacks used to experience. Discrimination is far less a problem than is inadequate education. Black people who put the same value on formal education as the stereotypical "Tiger Mom" will have kids who can compete with the kids of the stereotypical "Tiger Mom". Of course the kids miss out on television and video games. Aw, too bad! 

Quote:If anything the election of Trump and the repudiation of the identity politics of the Democratic Party not only leads us to the prevention of a Hitler-like figure from arising but should one arise, it would arise from the Left anyway.  Which is hardly a surprise when one stops to consider that Nazi is an abbreviation of National Socialist in the German. 

Uh... no. The Democratic Party has constituency groups that include people that identity politics burns. The Republican Party now has the people who would impose a high-tech version of feudalism if they could get away with it. If you want to know what people are now most attracted to identity politics -- it is poor, undereducated white people who somehow believe that their whiteness entitles them to privilege. As for Nazis being 'socialists' -- there really were some Nazis who wanted the Nazi Party go go socialist, like Otto Roehm and Anton Strasser, both murdered during the Night of the Long Knives for insisting on the "socialist" part of National Socialism -- massive nationalization of Big Business. Nazism well served the existing cartels and trusts that then dominated the German economy and gave German workers the lowest industrial wages in Europe.

Calling attention to the "Socialist" part of the self-description of the Nazi Party is like accepting as truth the self description of North Korea as the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". North Korea is Korean as opposed to something else, but otherwise it is in no way democratic, it grossly misrepresents the interests of any part of the Korean People except for the communist party, and it is not even a republic but instead an absolute monarchy.

Quote:As I've pointed out the main difference between Marxian Socialism and National Socialism is the direction of nationalism vs internationalism.  Both are murderous ideologies that must be opposed by any liberty loving person--and any True American in particular.

I assure you that many American commies consider themselves as truly American as Kluxers mostly consider themselves truly American. Heck, serial killer Ted Bundy and mass-murderer Timothy McVeigh were undeniably American.  As far as that goes, an F5 tornado that sweeps through the American Midwest is American too. Yes, i associate Communism with a horrendous loss of personal freedom, the elimination of meaningful justice, and a high body count. I see "democratic centralism" as the cornerstone of the lack of democracy in all previous and existing Commie regimes -- the leadership makes the decisions and nobody can ever seek to reverse such a decision.

This said, Karl Marx got something very right, and it has yet to be disproved: that the working man has nothing to sell but his labor, and his labor is no longer desired, then he is completely expendable.

Quote:I hope you live to see that you're on the wrong side of history as the Left loves to say.

That is more likely what will happen to you, and not because you are black, gay, or a capitalist.

PBR...if I didn't already know you were clueless this post certainly proved it.