"Pro-life"? It's about control of women.

[pbrower2a]

A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

Quote:According to self-identified “pro-life” advocates, the fundamental divide between those who want to outlaw abortion and those who want to keep it legal comes down to one question: when does life begin? Anti-abortion advocacy pushes the view that life begins at conception; the name of their movement carefully centers the conceit that opposition to abortion rights is simply about wanting to save human lives.

A new poll shows that’s a lie. The “pro-life” movement is fundamentally about misogyny.

A Supermajority/PerryUndem survey released this week divides respondents by their position on abortion, and then tracks their answers to 10 questions on gender equality more generally. On every question, anti-abortion voters were significantly more hostile to gender equity than pro-choice voters.

Do men make better political leaders than women? More than half of anti-abortion voters agreed. Do you want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in America? Fewer than half of abortion opponents said yes – compared with 80% of pro-choicers, who said they want women to share in power equally.

Anti-abortion voters don’t like the #MeToo movement. They don’t think the lack of women in positions of power impacts women’s equality. They don’t think access to birth control impacts women’s equality. They don’t think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.

In other words, they don’t believe sexism is a problem, and they’re hostile to women’s rights. Pro-lifers are sexists in denial – yes, the women too.

Link to survey results

Pro-Choice respondents are defined as those who "want abortion legal in all or most cases (67%)" and Pro-Life respondents are defined as those who "want abortion illegal in all or most cases (33%)."

38% Pro-Choice | 77% Pro-Life - Agree women are too easily offended
38% Pro-Choice | 71% Pro-Life - Agree women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist
24% Pro-Choice | 54% Pro-Life - Agree men generally make better political leaders than women
80% Pro-Choice | 47% Pro-Life - Agree I want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in our society
74% Pro-Choice | 35% Pro-Life - Think the way women are treated in society is an important 2020 issue
82% Pro-Choice | 34% Pro-Life - Agree the country would be better off if we had more women in political office
74% Pro-Choice | 27% Pro-Life - Think access to birth control affects women's equality
70% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Think lack of women in political office affects women's equality
71% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Favorable toward #MeToo movement
66% Pro-Choice | 19% Pro-Life - Believe systems in society were set up to give men more opportunities than women

[Sonntag]

I feel like this survey needs to get expanded upon.

[David Horn]

(10-21-2019, 08:59 AM)Sonntag Wrote: I feel like this survey needs to get expanded upon.

Go for it!  The entire male/female cornucopia of topics will be dumped-out and examined in this race, so feel free to add to the pile.  This review is long overdue, so let's make it as complete as it can be.

[Eric the Green]

I always said that myself. That's the goal. Tradishnul famla valyas.

[David Horn]

(10-21-2019, 02:32 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I always said that myself. That's the goal. Tradishnul famla valyas.

Give her(?) a chance.  One never knows...

(Note to Millennials: no, that ellipsis is not intended as a slight)

[Kinser79]

1st: The Guardian. Could one find a more partisan rag?
2nd: Methodology not published. Polls without methodology are worthless.

[Eric the Green]

(08-24-2019, 06:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

Quote:According to self-identified “pro-life” advocates, the fundamental divide between those who want to outlaw abortion and those who want to keep it legal comes down to one question: when does life begin? Anti-abortion advocacy pushes the view that life begins at conception; the name of their movement carefully centers the conceit that opposition to abortion rights is simply about wanting to save human lives.

A new poll shows that’s a lie. The “pro-life” movement is fundamentally about misogyny.

A Supermajority/PerryUndem survey released this week divides respondents by their position on abortion, and then tracks their answers to 10 questions on gender equality more generally. On every question, anti-abortion voters were significantly more hostile to gender equity than pro-choice voters.

Do men make better political leaders than women? More than half of anti-abortion voters agreed. Do you want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in America? Fewer than half of abortion opponents said yes – compared with 80% of pro-choicers, who said they want women to share in power equally.

Anti-abortion voters don’t like the #MeToo movement. They don’t think the lack of women in positions of power impacts women’s equality. They don’t think access to birth control impacts women’s equality. They don’t think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.

In other words, they don’t believe sexism is a problem, and they’re hostile to women’s rights. Pro-lifers are sexists in denial – yes, the women too.

Link to survey results

Pro-Choice respondents are defined as those who "want abortion legal in all or most cases (67%)" and Pro-Life respondents are defined as those who "want abortion illegal in all or most cases (33%)."

38% Pro-Choice | 77% Pro-Life - Agree women are too easily offended
38% Pro-Choice | 71% Pro-Life - Agree women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist
24% Pro-Choice | 54% Pro-Life - Agree men generally make better political leaders than women
80% Pro-Choice | 47% Pro-Life - Agree I want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in our society
74% Pro-Choice | 35% Pro-Life - Think the way women are treated in society is an important 2020 issue
82% Pro-Choice | 34% Pro-Life - Agree the country would be better off if we had more women in political office
74% Pro-Choice | 27% Pro-Life - Think access to birth control affects women's equality
70% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Think lack of women in political office affects women's equality
71% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Favorable toward #MeToo movement
66% Pro-Choice | 19% Pro-Life - Believe systems in society were set up to give men more opportunities than women

It's an interesting survey, charting how the two sides on the abortion issue think about women's issues. But some of the questions are very generalized and reflect stereotypes.

Are women more easily offended than men? Probably, in my experience, but that's a generalization, and so the real answer is likely closer to 50-50.

Do women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist? Feminists do, I think, especially if they are militant. Otherwise, to answer that question is to accept or reject a stereotype. It's quite possible that pro-lifers are more likely to agree with stereotypes like this on all issues.

Do men generally make better political leaders than women? Probably not. But there is a shortage of women political leaders, so it's hard to say. I know some of the greatest rulers in English history were the queens. Then again, there was Margaret Thatcher. She was a capable leader but not good for the country. This poll question is also a generalization. The answer is probably close to 50-50.

The pro-choice statements are easier to agree to. I agree with them all, but I am ambivalent on #MeToo because I like sexual openness and this movement restricts it. But on the other hand, those who have been preying on women in severe ways and getting away with it for so long are being exposed, and I agree with that. On Sen. Frankel though, I was against Gillibrand on that. 

As easy as it has been to knock down sexual predators in the media and even in politics, somehow a rapist was allowed to get a seat on the highest court in the land. And earlier, a sexual harrasser. So what is it about judges that it's OK for them to be sex perverts, as long as they are conservative Republicans?

[beechnut79]

A psychic I spoke with a year or so ago predicted that movements such as #MeToo and Black Livesatter would not remain viable over the long haul. The political equivalent of disco?

[Bill the Piper]

Eventually we won't need abortions since we'll have effective biotechnological means of switching one's fertility off if you're not interesting in having a baby. Condoms and pills are cumbersome, but imagine giving women a possibility to turn off ovulation. This sort of stuff is described in the Culture novels by IM Banks (Boomer) and also hinted at in Last and First Men by Olaf Stapledon (Missionary). During next 2T it might become real.

[David Horn]

(10-21-2019, 08:54 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: 1st:  The Guardian.  Could one find a more partisan rag?

Sure.  Anything published by the Murdock family is vastly more partisan and held to almost no journalistic standards at all.

Kinser79 Wrote:2nd:  Methodology not published.  Polls without methodology are worthless.

Yes, they were, just not directly in the article.  Here they are.

[Eric the Green]

(10-22-2019, 10:49 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Eventually we won't need abortions since we'll have effective biotechnological means of switching one's fertility off if you're not interesting in having a baby. Condoms and pills are cumbersome, but imagine giving women a possibility to turn off ovulation. This sort of stuff is described in the Culture novels by IM Banks (Boomer) and also hinted at in Last and First Men by Olaf Stapledon (Missionary). During next 2T it might become real.

We already have a morning-after abortion pill, I thought. If made widely available, it might take the issue off the table.

[David Horn]

(10-22-2019, 07:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-22-2019, 10:49 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Eventually we won't need abortions since we'll have effective biotechnological means of switching one's fertility off if you're not interesting in having a baby. Condoms and pills are cumbersome, but imagine giving women a possibility to turn off ovulation. This sort of stuff is described in the Culture novels by IM Banks (Boomer) and also hinted at in Last and First Men by Olaf Stapledon (Missionary). During next 2T it might become real.

We already have a morning-after abortion pill, I thought. If made widely available, it might take the issue off the table.

Note: all three of us are male, so our opinions are less valid than a woman's.  We'll never have to deal with this issue on a visceral basis.  That said, I'll still comment as an observer.

Most of the birth control and abortion issues center on morality of doing or not doing something to prevent or end a pregnancy.  Neither situation is amenable to technology.  Both require emotional support, making counseling the primary mandate.  That is not likely to change.

[Bill the Piper]

(10-23-2019, 10:27 PM)taramarie Wrote: Males I have known have been allergic to the condom

I'm not. I also work in a shop and see lot of men buying condoms.

[Bill the Piper]

(10-24-2019, 06:08 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(10-24-2019, 05:55 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:

(10-23-2019, 10:27 PM)taramarie Wrote: Males I have known have been allergic to the condom

I'm not. I also work in a shop and see lot of men buying condoms.

Well I didn't have sex with you. I was stating men I have been with and the one I am to marry is allergic.

I've heard old time condoms dimmed the man's sensations during intercourse, they compared it to "licking an icecream through a glass". But now that's been overcome, there are even condoms that improve the man's experience.

[Classic-Xer]

(08-24-2019, 06:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

Quote:According to self-identified “pro-life” advocates, the fundamental divide between those who want to outlaw abortion and those who want to keep it legal comes down to one question: when does life begin? Anti-abortion advocacy pushes the view that life begins at conception; the name of their movement carefully centers the conceit that opposition to abortion rights is simply about wanting to save human lives.

A new poll shows that’s a lie. The “pro-life” movement is fundamentally about misogyny.

A Supermajority/PerryUndem survey released this week divides respondents by their position on abortion, and then tracks their answers to 10 questions on gender equality more generally. On every question, anti-abortion voters were significantly more hostile to gender equity than pro-choice voters.

Do men make better political leaders than women? More than half of anti-abortion voters agreed. Do you want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in America? Fewer than half of abortion opponents said yes – compared with 80% of pro-choicers, who said they want women to share in power equally.

Anti-abortion voters don’t like the #MeToo movement. They don’t think the lack of women in positions of power impacts women’s equality. They don’t think access to birth control impacts women’s equality. They don’t think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.

In other words, they don’t believe sexism is a problem, and they’re hostile to women’s rights. Pro-lifers are sexists in denial – yes, the women too.

Link to survey results

Pro-Choice respondents are defined as those who "want abortion legal in all or most cases (67%)" and Pro-Life respondents are defined as those who "want abortion illegal in all or most cases (33%)."

38% Pro-Choice | 77% Pro-Life - Agree women are too easily offended
38% Pro-Choice | 71% Pro-Life - Agree women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist
24% Pro-Choice | 54% Pro-Life - Agree men generally make better political leaders than women
80% Pro-Choice | 47% Pro-Life - Agree I want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in our society
74% Pro-Choice | 35% Pro-Life - Think the way women are treated in society is an important 2020 issue
82% Pro-Choice | 34% Pro-Life - Agree the country would be better off if we had more women in political office
74% Pro-Choice | 27% Pro-Life - Think access to birth control affects women's equality
70% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Think lack of women in political office affects women's equality
71% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Favorable toward #MeToo movement
66% Pro-Choice | 19% Pro-Life - Believe systems in society were set up to give men more opportunities than women

I think we all know/should know that life begins at conception these days. I know that my life and the lives of everyone that I know began at conception. I can't speak for the liberals or the liberal view of having to see it alive in the flesh before being able to see it/ accept it as being a live human being. We may as well begin talking about this issue and other issues as if we are already separate nations because that is the path that we are obviously on today.

I'm not a misogynist who believes that women are incapable of doing most things on their own without male support or guidance. You would be amazed by the number of red males and females who already view each other as equals and treat each other as equals. In reality, it's so common among reddish people these days that the blue social issues are commonly viewed as non issues as it relates to them and their lives. I'm not raising my daughter to be a blue woman reliant upon government who looks to government for support/ help/protection or reliant upon a political wing of a national party for her identity or her job or her position in life or her feeling of self worth and so forth. I'm not raising her to have multiple fathers of her children and have multiple children that she and her sperm donors cannot afford to raise without public support. My advice, you should start thinking in terms of national splits and start thinking of the losses and what kind of people end up living where and so forth.

[Eric the Green]

(10-28-2019, 07:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-24-2019, 06:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

Quote:According to self-identified “pro-life” advocates, the fundamental divide between those who want to outlaw abortion and those who want to keep it legal comes down to one question: when does life begin? Anti-abortion advocacy pushes the view that life begins at conception; the name of their movement carefully centers the conceit that opposition to abortion rights is simply about wanting to save human lives.

A new poll shows that’s a lie. The “pro-life” movement is fundamentally about misogyny.

A Supermajority/PerryUndem survey released this week divides respondents by their position on abortion, and then tracks their answers to 10 questions on gender equality more generally. On every question, anti-abortion voters were significantly more hostile to gender equity than pro-choice voters.

Do men make better political leaders than women? More than half of anti-abortion voters agreed. Do you want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in America? Fewer than half of abortion opponents said yes – compared with 80% of pro-choicers, who said they want women to share in power equally.

Anti-abortion voters don’t like the #MeToo movement. They don’t think the lack of women in positions of power impacts women’s equality. They don’t think access to birth control impacts women’s equality. They don’t think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.

In other words, they don’t believe sexism is a problem, and they’re hostile to women’s rights. Pro-lifers are sexists in denial – yes, the women too.

Link to survey results

Pro-Choice respondents are defined as those who "want abortion legal in all or most cases (67%)" and Pro-Life respondents are defined as those who "want abortion illegal in all or most cases (33%)."

38% Pro-Choice | 77% Pro-Life - Agree women are too easily offended
38% Pro-Choice | 71% Pro-Life - Agree women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist
24% Pro-Choice | 54% Pro-Life - Agree men generally make better political leaders than women
80% Pro-Choice | 47% Pro-Life - Agree I want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in our society
74% Pro-Choice | 35% Pro-Life - Think the way women are treated in society is an important 2020 issue
82% Pro-Choice | 34% Pro-Life - Agree the country would be better off if we had more women in political office
74% Pro-Choice | 27% Pro-Life - Think access to birth control affects women's equality
70% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Think lack of women in political office affects women's equality
71% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Favorable toward #MeToo movement
66% Pro-Choice | 19% Pro-Life - Believe systems in society were set up to give men more opportunities than women

I think we all know/should know that life begins at conception these days. I know that my life and the lives of everyone that I know began at conception. I can't speak for the liberals or the liberal view of having to see it alive in the flesh before being able to see it/ accept it as being a live human being. We may as well begin talking about this issue and other issues as if we are already separate nations because that is the path that we are obviously on today.

I'm not a misogynist who believes that women are incapable of doing most things on their own without male support or guidance. You would be amazed by the number of red males and females who already view each other as equals and treat each other as equals. In reality, it's so common among reddish  people these days that the blue social issues are commonly viewed as non issues as it relates to them and their lives. I'm not raising my daughter to be a blue woman reliant upon government who looks to government for support/ help/protection or reliant upon a political wing of a national party for her identity or her job or her position in life or her feeling of  self worth and so forth. I'm not raising her to have multiple fathers of her children and have multiple children that she and her sperm donors cannot afford to raise without public support. My advice, you should start thinking in terms of national splits and start thinking of the losses and what kind of people end up living where and so forth.

Are you raising your daughter to think of "blue" people as "reliant upon government who looks to government for support/ help/protection or reliant upon a political wing of a national party for her identity or her job or her position in life or her feeling of  self worth and so forth. I'm not raising her to have multiple fathers of her children and have multiple children that she and her sperm donors cannot afford to raise without public support."

Remember, when you refer to "blue" you really do refer to all Democrats. You might want to reconsider your terms if you don't mean to say this.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-28-2019, 08:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-28-2019, 07:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-24-2019, 06:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

Quote:According to self-identified “pro-life” advocates, the fundamental divide between those who want to outlaw abortion and those who want to keep it legal comes down to one question: when does life begin? Anti-abortion advocacy pushes the view that life begins at conception; the name of their movement carefully centers the conceit that opposition to abortion rights is simply about wanting to save human lives.

A new poll shows that’s a lie. The “pro-life” movement is fundamentally about misogyny.

A Supermajority/PerryUndem survey released this week divides respondents by their position on abortion, and then tracks their answers to 10 questions on gender equality more generally. On every question, anti-abortion voters were significantly more hostile to gender equity than pro-choice voters.

Do men make better political leaders than women? More than half of anti-abortion voters agreed. Do you want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in America? Fewer than half of abortion opponents said yes – compared with 80% of pro-choicers, who said they want women to share in power equally.

Anti-abortion voters don’t like the #MeToo movement. They don’t think the lack of women in positions of power impacts women’s equality. They don’t think access to birth control impacts women’s equality. They don’t think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.

In other words, they don’t believe sexism is a problem, and they’re hostile to women’s rights. Pro-lifers are sexists in denial – yes, the women too.

Link to survey results

Pro-Choice respondents are defined as those who "want abortion legal in all or most cases (67%)" and Pro-Life respondents are defined as those who "want abortion illegal in all or most cases (33%)."

38% Pro-Choice | 77% Pro-Life - Agree women are too easily offended
38% Pro-Choice | 71% Pro-Life - Agree women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist
24% Pro-Choice | 54% Pro-Life - Agree men generally make better political leaders than women
80% Pro-Choice | 47% Pro-Life - Agree I want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in our society
74% Pro-Choice | 35% Pro-Life - Think the way women are treated in society is an important 2020 issue
82% Pro-Choice | 34% Pro-Life - Agree the country would be better off if we had more women in political office
74% Pro-Choice | 27% Pro-Life - Think access to birth control affects women's equality
70% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Think lack of women in political office affects women's equality
71% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Favorable toward #MeToo movement
66% Pro-Choice | 19% Pro-Life - Believe systems in society were set up to give men more opportunities than women

I think we all know/should know that life begins at conception these days. I know that my life and the lives of everyone that I know began at conception. I can't speak for the liberals or the liberal view of having to see it alive in the flesh before being able to see it/ accept it as being a live human being. We may as well begin talking about this issue and other issues as if we are already separate nations because that is the path that we are obviously on today.

I'm not a misogynist who believes that women are incapable of doing most things on their own without male support or guidance. You would be amazed by the number of red males and females who already view each other as equals and treat each other as equals. In reality, it's so common among reddish  people these days that the blue social issues are commonly viewed as non issues as it relates to them and their lives. I'm not raising my daughter to be a blue woman reliant upon government who looks to government for support/ help/protection or reliant upon a political wing of a national party for her identity or her job or her position in life or her feeling of  self worth and so forth. I'm not raising her to have multiple fathers of her children and have multiple children that she and her sperm donors cannot afford to raise without public support. My advice, you should start thinking in terms of national splits and start thinking of the losses and what kind of people end up living where and so forth.

Are you raising your daughter to think of "blue" people as "reliant upon government who looks to government for support/ help/protection or reliant upon a political wing of a national party for her identity or her job or her position in life or her feeling of  self worth and so forth. I'm not raising her to have multiple fathers of her children and have multiple children that she and her sperm donors cannot afford to raise without public support."

Remember, when you refer to "blue" you really do refer to all Democrats. You might want to reconsider your terms if you don't mean to say this.

No, she's smart enough to be able to figure that out on her own. Yes. I'm fully aware that blue is associated with the Democratic party (Democratic voters) these days. As you already know, I'm not here recruiting or attempting to gain or exclusively looking for Democratic support either. If the Democratic don't care if they're going to be stuck paying for everything the other half of their party wants or now feels it's entitled to receive, I don't really care if that's how it turns out to be for them. You see, the Democratic people have had the luxury of half the country being opposed to the other half of their party. I'm not sure what they're going to do when the other half of the country decides that it's done with the other half of their party.

[Eric the Green]

(10-29-2019, 02:01 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-28-2019, 08:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-28-2019, 07:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-24-2019, 06:31 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: A new poll shows what really interests 'pro-lifers': controlling women

Quote:According to self-identified “pro-life” advocates, the fundamental divide between those who want to outlaw abortion and those who want to keep it legal comes down to one question: when does life begin? Anti-abortion advocacy pushes the view that life begins at conception; the name of their movement carefully centers the conceit that opposition to abortion rights is simply about wanting to save human lives.

A new poll shows that’s a lie. The “pro-life” movement is fundamentally about misogyny.

A Supermajority/PerryUndem survey released this week divides respondents by their position on abortion, and then tracks their answers to 10 questions on gender equality more generally. On every question, anti-abortion voters were significantly more hostile to gender equity than pro-choice voters.

Do men make better political leaders than women? More than half of anti-abortion voters agreed. Do you want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in America? Fewer than half of abortion opponents said yes – compared with 80% of pro-choicers, who said they want women to share in power equally.

Anti-abortion voters don’t like the #MeToo movement. They don’t think the lack of women in positions of power impacts women’s equality. They don’t think access to birth control impacts women’s equality. They don’t think the way women are treated in society is an important issue in the 2020 election.

In other words, they don’t believe sexism is a problem, and they’re hostile to women’s rights. Pro-lifers are sexists in denial – yes, the women too.

Link to survey results

Pro-Choice respondents are defined as those who "want abortion legal in all or most cases (67%)" and Pro-Life respondents are defined as those who "want abortion illegal in all or most cases (33%)."

38% Pro-Choice | 77% Pro-Life - Agree women are too easily offended
38% Pro-Choice | 71% Pro-Life - Agree women interpret innocent remarks or acts as being sexist
24% Pro-Choice | 54% Pro-Life - Agree men generally make better political leaders than women
80% Pro-Choice | 47% Pro-Life - Agree I want there to be equal numbers of men and women in positions of power in our society
74% Pro-Choice | 35% Pro-Life - Think the way women are treated in society is an important 2020 issue
82% Pro-Choice | 34% Pro-Life - Agree the country would be better off if we had more women in political office
74% Pro-Choice | 27% Pro-Life - Think access to birth control affects women's equality
70% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Think lack of women in political office affects women's equality
71% Pro-Choice | 23% Pro-Life - Favorable toward #MeToo movement
66% Pro-Choice | 19% Pro-Life - Believe systems in society were set up to give men more opportunities than women

I think we all know/should know that life begins at conception these days. I know that my life and the lives of everyone that I know began at conception. I can't speak for the liberals or the liberal view of having to see it alive in the flesh before being able to see it/ accept it as being a live human being. We may as well begin talking about this issue and other issues as if we are already separate nations because that is the path that we are obviously on today.

I'm not a misogynist who believes that women are incapable of doing most things on their own without male support or guidance. You would be amazed by the number of red males and females who already view each other as equals and treat each other as equals. In reality, it's so common among reddish  people these days that the blue social issues are commonly viewed as non issues as it relates to them and their lives. I'm not raising my daughter to be a blue woman reliant upon government who looks to government for support/ help/protection or reliant upon a political wing of a national party for her identity or her job or her position in life or her feeling of  self worth and so forth. I'm not raising her to have multiple fathers of her children and have multiple children that she and her sperm donors cannot afford to raise without public support. My advice, you should start thinking in terms of national splits and start thinking of the losses and what kind of people end up living where and so forth.

Are you raising your daughter to think of "blue" people as "reliant upon government who looks to government for support/ help/protection or reliant upon a political wing of a national party for her identity or her job or her position in life or her feeling of  self worth and so forth. I'm not raising her to have multiple fathers of her children and have multiple children that she and her sperm donors cannot afford to raise without public support."

Remember, when you refer to "blue" you really do refer to all Democrats. You might want to reconsider your terms if you don't mean to say this.

No, she's smart enough to be able to figure that out on her own. Yes. I'm fully aware that blue is associated with the Democratic party (Democratic voters) these days. As you already know, I'm not here recruiting or attempting to gain or exclusively looking for Democratic support either. If the Democratic don't care if they're going to be stuck paying for everything the other half of their party wants or now feels it's entitled to receive, I don't really care if that's how it turns out to be for them. You see, the Democratic people have had the luxury of half the country being opposed to the other half of their party. I'm not sure what they're going to do when the other half of the country decides that it's done with the other half of their party.

Unfortunately for you and your views, you don't need to be concerned about that. There is no sharp distinction between the two halves of the Democratic Party. The division between blue and red is what is sharpening. Even going back to the Democratic convention of a decade or two ago, the moderate "new" Democrat Bill Clinton said clearly that "our way works better." 





What is that way? That government needs to help support the people, including poor and middle class people, and that when the income from the rich and upper middle class is partly used (and in fact most of us contribute to some extent) to help us all to make it when we need it, this stimulates economic activity for everyone a lot better than "your way," which says let the rich keep everything they earn and in fact exploit everyone else by appropriating all the revenue from their business for themselves, and believing with ardent and baseless faith that this wealth from the "job creaters" will trickle down to everybody.

All Democrats, not just half of them, accept that taxes are needed, and that helping the poor helps all of us, and that it's prudent to provide support when a depression or a greedy or mean boss destroys your income, so that you can keep on living and find other means of support later if needed. If you watch the Democratic presidential debates this year, you'll find that although some of their fans loudly denounce the other candidates from one side or another, in fact the candidates themselves all agree that they all agree on this basic principle.

Another problem for your side is that it is being increasingly hijacked by fear and prejudice against immigrants and non-christian religions and a narrow nationalism. The red side has been captured by Trump and is tied to the hip to him, because Republicans know that he is the only current potential candidate who has any chance to win the presidency. In order the keep your AR-15s and keep your taxes low and never going to those who depend on government, you all have to go along with Trump's narrow-minded hatreds. Of course to some extent you always have, even if not totally or explicitly. But now you are all stuck with him whole hog, and you are clinging to him and you will all go down with him.

[Dewdman42]

The Pro-Life movement is not about controlling women.  That is ridiculous!  We have a communication breakdown on this point.  That's why the argument is not Pro-Life vs Anti-Life.  Nor is the argument Pro-Choice vs No-Choice.  the argument is always Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice... and the two sides are fighting over different things.  Pro-Lifers are fighting for the human rights of the unborn child.  Pro-Choice advocates are fighting for the human rights of the pregnant mother.  There is a conflict because the human rights of both individuals can't seem to be resolved together...it appears to be a zero sum game where mothers feel their rights are violated if they can't terminate the life of their unborn child, and Pro-Life advocates feel that they can't protect the rights of unborn children without forcing women to bear their pregnancy all the way to birth of a child.

This conflict is what it is, but you're never going to get anywhere by accusing the other side of evil.

For the time being I feel the law of the land is Pro-Choice, but I think reproduction laws also need to be changed to allow men to opt out of parental obligations also.  Right now women have all the rights.  They can terminate it or have it...their choice...and also their choice to force the father to accept obligations and responsbilities, which they themselves had the option to get out of through abortion...the current law of the land.  Men deserve the same "choice' that women are currently provided.  Men are currently the ones being "controlled" !!

[pbrower2a]

Let's start with this: chastity is a valid choice. Maybe if more men and boys understood what the word "no" means we would not have so many abortions. Maybe if we didn't have so many borderline rapes we wouldn't have so many abortions.

Let's start by debunking the crass excuses of would-be rapists:

"She's going to enjoy it, and if she does it isn't rape".
"(Certain? All?) girls are sluts anyway".
"I am God's gift to women".

Or she has a fling and the unborn baby will look nothing like her husband. Whoops?

Let's also crack down on sexual trafficking. Many abortions involve prostitution, and the female is pressed into having an abortion so that she can continue to make more money for "her" pimp. She is helpless -- perhaps she is a foreigner who knows nobody here except for the pimp.

...It is safe to assume that rapists and johns have no obvious claim to any right to the unborn child. It is also clear that another cause of abortions, those mandatory for protecting the life and health (including reproductive health) of the woman or girl.

Abortions have been performed on girls as young as ten years old. What does that say aside from statutory rape?