The Coronavirus

[pbrower2a]

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

[Classic-Xer]

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

[David Horn]

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

Quick!  Review the results of Gerald Ford's early release of H1N1 flu vaccine in 1976, and decide whether this makes any sense at all.

[pbrower2a]

(09-03-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

"You have heard"? I doubt that you have insider information. Maybe some stock tout has offered such questionable information, or some propagandist tied to Donald Trump. 

When there is a safe and effective treatment (really unlikely for a virus unless one has a reliable means of harvesting antibodies -- viruses do not respond to antibiotics) or an effective vaccine, it is most likely that we will know that Joseph R. Biden is scheduled to become the 46th President of the United States or that he will already be such. Medical research has no cure for cancer, although it has been able to improve treatments to improve the quality of life for patients. Let us not forget that there is also a group of diseases (Parkinsonism, Alzheimer's, and Lewy-body dementia) for which medical research is underway but far from ready. But should there be a treatment for such it will not be the politicians who get the glory.  

Donald Trump's handling of COVID-19 is a disgrace, if not an outright crime.

[Eric the Green]

(09-03-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

It seems to me that a lot of the same folks who defy orders to social distance and wear masks and who go to protest rallies against shutdowns are also those who deny the safety and effectiveness of all vaccines, and will refuse to take them. And they are all part of Trump's base, which is full of conspiracy theory believers like Trump himself. I would not rule out that Trump will also politicize vaccines, and flip and waffle on them as he has on masks and social distancing in order to please his base of voters. He would also be incompetent as a distributor of vaccines, as he has been as a distributor of protective equipment and testing, and make them expensive and less available to poor people where covid is most virulent. 

The result of re-electing Trump would be to keep the pandemic going and keep us all in the covid prison indefinitely.

[pbrower2a]

(09-04-2020, 01:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

It seems to me that a lot of the same folks who defy orders to social distance and wear masks and who go to protest rallies against shutdowns are also those who deny the safety and effectiveness of all vaccines, and will refuse to take them. And they are all part of Trump's base, which is full of conspiracy theory believers like Trump himself. I would not rule out that Trump will also politicize vaccines, and flip and waffle on them as he has on masks and social distancing in order to please his base of voters. He would also be incompetent as a distributor of vaccines, as he has been as a distributor of protective equipment and testing, and make them expensive and less available to poor people where covid is most virulent. 

The result of re-electing Trump would be to keep the pandemic going and keep us all in the covid prison indefinitely.

The medical industry insists upon "safe and effective" as a criterion for allowing a therapy or a vaccine. This prevents such bad results as quackery that has official recognition before it loses it. Ineffective treatments are worthless, and unsafe treatments may be worse than worthless. Physicians need to be authority figures because they can order drastic measures such as surgery, chemotherapy, amputations, referrals to psychiatric wards, and detox -- all of which are troublesome. Were I a physician I would want to be an authority figure strong enough to convince someone to quit drinking or smoking or to get behavioral modification for problem gambling or sexual addiction. 

Failed therapies and treatments discredit the authority that physicians need.  Yes, you will take that anti-psychotic drug even if it makes you impotent. Yes, you will take that anti-anxiety drug even if it means that you cannot enjoy a nice Cabernet or beer on occasion (you drink rarely and little, but when you do it is refreshing). Yes, you must quit that job that exposes you to dangerous radiation or chemicals. Good medical device may force behaviors even more drastic than surrendering assets. But an authority figure of any kind, whether a parent, a teacher, or a political leader must keep that authority intact by maintaining its credibility. Of course it is easy to have authority if one is willing to torture and kill anyone who fails to cooperate as demanded. This said, the ends of Nero, Caligula, Commodus, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Nicolae Ceausescu, Saddam Hussein, and Moammar Qaddafi don't look so great.  They lost their authority and died of the consequences. 

At one point I described some dangerous behaviors that have inexcusable risks attached. Catching COVID-19 is hard to rationalize. It is compensation for nothing that one cannot defer or modify. As a nation we will need to divest ourselves of some bad habits associated with the authority of greed over the helplessness of people in severe need for being poor even if they work. American capitalism has led to an assumption that mass suffering and deprivation is well and good so long as it turns a profit, indulges elites, and enforces the power of the rich because such is the cause of prosperity. This said, prosperity that depends upon degrading poverty is suspect.

[TnT]

(09-03-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

Being kind of a practical orientation, I'm waiting for the "plan."  Let's say, just for argument that there is an effective vaccine available sometime this year.  What's the "plan?"

1.  Who makes the exquisitely sterile vials in the tens of millions?
2.  Who makes the exquisitely sterile stoppers in the tens of millions?
3.  From whence comes the tens of millions of sterile syringes needed to inject the vaccine?
4.  How are the shipments divided up, allocated to the various parts of the country/world?
5.  Who ships them so that they do not get overheated, over chilled?
6.  Once they get where they are going, who picks up the shipments and decides who gets the vaccine?
7.  Who decides what order the various folks in the population get the vaccine?
8.  Who are the folks that organize the injections?
9.  How do they find the folks that need it the most?
10.  How are these folks notified that they need it?
11.  How do we deal with denialists who don't "believe" in vaccination?
12 ... et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum ...

I could go on like this for quite a while.  What I don't hear is any kind of detailed plan coming out of the Trumpists.  What?  Is Jared going to take this on?  (How did "testing" go?!!  We are finally getting around to asking Abbott, the largest manufacturer of clinical diagnostics in the world to start sending out good, fast tests.  When, in God's name, will that be underway so that testing can bring this shit to a conclusion??!)

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-04-2020, 07:24 PM)TnT Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

Being kind of a practical orientation, I'm waiting for the "plan."  Let's say, just for argument that there is an effective vaccine available sometime this year.  What's the "plan?"  (Snip.)

I know the federal government has lost much credibility at this point.  Trump is putting political hacks on top of the medical agencies who have been editing the advice from the real doctors.  I for one will be in no hurry to get a vaccination if one appears as an October surprise.  I will wait on my personal doctor to agree that it is time.  Meanwhile Warp Speed may be pouring a ton of resources into something not ready just to meet a political deadline.  It is not that I am thrilled by the isolation precautions, but I will keep them up rather than believe the Trump hacks.

I suppose that makes me at least as hesitant as the vaccine denialist people.

[pbrower2a]

(09-04-2020, 07:24 PM)TnT Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

Being kind of a practical orientation, I'm waiting for the "plan."  Let's say, just for argument that there is an effective vaccine available sometime this year.  What's the "plan?"

1.  Who makes the exquisitely sterile vials in the tens of millions?
2.  Who makes the exquisitely sterile stoppers in the tens of millions?
3.  From whence comes the tens of millions of sterile syringes needed to inject the vaccine?
4.  How are the shipments divided up, allocated to the various parts of the country/world?
5.  Who ships them so that they do not get overheated, over chilled?
6.  Once they get where they are going, who picks up the shipments and decides who gets the vaccine?
7.  Who decides what order the various folks in the population get the vaccine?
8.  Who are the folks that organize the injections?
9.  How do they find the folks that need it the most?
10.  How are these folks notified that they need it?
11.  How do we deal with denialists who don't "believe" in vaccination?
12 ... et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum ...

I could go on like this for quite a while.  What I don't hear is any kind of detailed plan coming out of the Trumpists.  What?  Is Jared going to take this on?  (How did "testing" go?!!  We are finally getting around to asking Abbott, the largest manufacturer of clinical diagnostics in the world to start sending out good, fast tests.  When, in God's name, will that be underway so that testing can bring this shit to a conclusion??!)

That is the point. Not only is testing tricky... so are logistics. Trump seems to believe that one can operate in "try something and see if it works". Such ranges from unconscionable to impossible. Tests of random cures to determine what works are more likely to result in pointless injury and death than in quick studies. I would guess that the attention is on antibodies. The analogy is to influenza. 

To be sure, people in desperate condition, as with terminal cancer, might be willing to endure experimental therapies that have some chance of killing them outright... but unlike experimental treatments, vaccines are used (optimally) upon healthy people who intend to not get the disease. 

It is now one day less than two months before the 2020 election, and at this point Donald Trump basically says "Trust me!" about a subject about which he knows nothing. 

Donald Trump is doing so badly that it is entirely possible that President Biden will be obliged to call Congress and the Senate to start over with a more rigid lockdown than the one that we had last time. Maybe it will be easier in the winter, when there are far fewer places that people want to go. Trump wasted the heroic efforts that many state governments, Big Business, and huge chunks of the American people made in the spring of 2020. This time it will be harsher only to the extent that states that responded ineffectively to COVID-19 (like Iowa) will make states that responded properly (like Minnesota) to get it right this time.  

I still have two words to describe the President's response to COVID-19:

NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE 

[Eric the Green]

I would imagine it would be simpler, though not less demanding, than TNT says. Simply put, everyone needs the vaccine. Unless it becomes mandatory, then it's provide a notice of where to get it, and everyone go stand in line and get it. Lots of vaccines will be needed, given out in lots of places.

If it becomes more mandatory, or at least the government keeps track of who gets it and who doesn't, then people need to be hired to keep track of all of us and require us to report. I imagine a lot of this could be handled by insurance companies and their/our doctors, which also means for some people medicare and medicaid.

I would not trust Trump, with his haphazard and Reaganomic approach, to manage this big task. And I imagine he would let the anti-vaxxers off the hook. This project should be postponed until we have real national leadership. If Trump jumps the gun, I image the Biden administration would have to take a lot of time and trouble to unravel the disorganized mess that Trump leaves for them.

[Eric the Green]

Less testing on labor day, fewer new cases reported. But After Labor Day there might be another surge because of mass disobedience to social distancing and mask wearing, especially by young people and Trump supporters.

[pbrower2a]

Doctors studying why obesity may be tied to serious COVID-19

NEW YORK (AP) — In the early days of the pandemic, doctors noticed something about the people severely ill from COVID-19: Many were obese.

The link became more apparent as coronavirus swept across the globe and data mounted, and researchers are still trying to figure out why.

Excess weight increases the chances of developing a number of health problems, including heart disease and diabetes. And those are among the conditions that can make COVID-19 patients more likely to get very sick.

But there’s some evidence that obesity itself can increase the likelihood of serious complications from a coronavirus infection. One study of more than 5,200 infected people, including 35% who were obese, found that the chances of hospitalization rose for people with higher BMIs, even when taking into account other conditions that could put them at risk.

Scientists are still studying the factors that might be at play — the way obesity affects the immune system may be one — but say it’s another example of the pandemic illuminating existing public health challenges.

Obesity may be one reason some countries or communities have been hit hard by the virus, researchers say. In the United States, the obesity rate among adults has climbed for decades and is now at 42%. The rate is even higher among Black and Hispanic Americans.

A person who is 5 feet, 7 inches tall is considered obese starting at around 190 pounds, or a body mass index of 30. The increased risk for serious COVID-19 illness appears more pronounced with extreme obesity, or a BMI of 40 or higher.

Researchers say multiple factors likely make it harder for people who are obese to fight a coronavirus infection, which can damage the lungs. Carrying around a lot of extra weight strains the body, and that excess fat could limit the lungs’ ability to expand and breathe.

Another issue is chronic inflammation, which often comes with obesity. Inflammation is a natural way our bodies fight harmful intruders like viruses. But long-lasting inflammation isn’t healthy and could undermine your body’s defenses when a real threat arises.

“It’s like pouring gasoline on a smoldering fire,” said Dr. Dariush Mozaffarian, an obesity researcher and dean of Tufts University’s school of nutrition science and policy near Boston.

And even if people who are obese aren’t diagnosed with diabetes or heart disease, Mozaffarian notes their health may not be optimal.

ADVERTISEMENT

How fat is distributed in the body may play a role too. One study found an increased risk for death from COVID-19 for people with severe obesity, but only among men. The findings could reflect that men tend to carry fat around the stomach, said Sara Tartof, a co-author of the study who researches infectious diseases at Kaiser Permanente in Southern California. That type of fat is more associated with the production of a hormone that could be contributing to more severe illness, she said.

Scientists are also exploring whether there’s something specific about the coronavirus itself that makes the obese more susceptible to getting very sick.

For example, the virus infects cells by attaching to receptors on the surface of certain cells. That receptor is abundant on fat cells and scientists are studying whether that makes them “a good nest for the virus,” said Dr. Francois Pattou at the University of Lille in France, who has co-authored research on the link between obesity and severe COVID-19 illness.

Complications in care can arise once hospitalized, too. To help with breathing, for example, doctors have been putting patients hospitalized with COVID-19 on their stomachs. But that can be difficult for the obese, making it more likely they’re put on ventilators.

“They need a machine to help just do the work,” said Dr. David Kass of Baltimore’s Johns Hopkins University, who has co-authored a study on obesity and severe COVID-19 illness.

Yet another concern: A COVID-19 vaccine may not be as effective for the obese, as seems to be the case with the flu and other vaccines.

Why that might be isn’t known, but one possibility is that obesity impairs an aspect of the immune system that needs to be activated for vaccines to work, said Dr. Nancie MacIver, who researches how weight affects the immune system at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. And she said whatever factors are at play would likely be applicable to a COVID-19 vaccine, but added that it is still important to get it.

___

The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Department of Science Education. The AP is solely responsible for all content.

https://apnews.com/160643fbce6ab88d4f6e91eda105bef7

[pbrower2a]

Surviving  COVID-19 isn't enough. It can shorten life if it does not kill outright:

Post-COVID heart damage alarms researchers: 'There was a black hole' in infected cells



Suzanne Smalley
Reporter
,
Yahoo News•September 10, 2020

Shelby Hedgecock contracted the coronavirus in April and thought she had fought through the worst of it — the intense headaches, severe gastrointestinal distress and debilitating fatigue — but early last month she started experiencing chest pain and a pounding heartbeat. Her doctor put her on a cardiac monitor and ordered blood tests, which indicated that the previously healthy 29-year-old had sustained heart damage, likely from her bout with COVID-19.


“I never thought I would have to worry about a heart attack at 29 years old,” Hedgecock told Yahoo News in an interview. “I didn’t have any complications before COVID-19 — no preexisting conditions, no heart issues. I can deal with my taste and smell being dull, I can fight through the debilitating fatigue, but your heart has to last you a really long time.”

Hedgecock’s primary-care physician has referred her to a cardiologist she will see this week; the heart monitor revealed that Hedgecock’s pulse rate is wildly irregular, ranging from 49 to 189 beats per minute, and she has elevated inflammatory markers and platelet counts. She was told to go to the emergency room if her chest pain intensifies before she can see the specialist. A former personal trainer who is now out of breath just from walking around the room, Hedgecock is worried about what the future holds.


She is far from alone in her struggle. Dr. Ossama Samuel is a cardiologist at New York’s Mount Sinai Hospital, where he routinely sees coronavirus survivors who are contending with cardiac complications. Samuel said his team has treated three young and otherwise healthy coronavirus patients who have developed myocarditis — an inflammation of the heart muscle — weeks to months after recovering from the virus.



Myocarditis can affect how the heart pumps blood and trigger rapid or abnormal heart rhythms. It is particularly dangerous for athletes, doctors say, because it can go undetected and can result in a heart attack during strenuous exercise. In recent weeks, some collegiate athletes have reported cardiac complications from the coronavirus, underscoring the seriousness of the condition. 


Last month, former Florida State basketball center Michael Ojo died from a heart attack in Serbia; Ojo had recovered from the coronavirus before he collapsed on the basketball court. An Ohio State University cardiologist found that between 10 and 13 percent of university athletes who had recovered from COVID-19 had myocarditis. When the Big Ten athletic conference announced the cancellation of its season last month, Commissioner Kevin Warren cited the risk of heart failure in athletes. Researchers have estimated that up to 20 percent of people who get the coronavirus sustain heart damage.



Samuel said he feels an obligation to warn people, particularly since some of the patients he and Mount Sinai colleagues have seen with myocarditis had only mild cases of the coronavirus months ago.



“We are now seeing people three months after COVID who have pericarditis [inflammation of the sac around the heart] or myocarditis,” Samuel said. He said he believes a small fraction of coronavirus survivors are sustaining heart damage, “but when a disease is so widespread it is concerning that a tiny fraction is still sizable.”



Samuel said he worries particularly about athletes participating in team sports, since many live together and spend time in close quarters. Teammates may all get the coronavirus and recover together, Samuel said, but “the one who really gets that crazy myocarditis could be at risk of dying through exercise or training.”



“It’s a concern about what do you do: Should we do sports in general, should we do it in schools, should we do it in college, should we just do it for professionals who understand the risk and they're getting paid?” Samuel asked. “I hope we don’t scare the public, but we should make people aware.”



Samuel is recommending that patients recovering from COVID-19 with myocarditis avoid workouts for three to six months.


Todd McDevitt, who runs a stem-cell lab at Gladstone Institutes, which is affiliated with the University of California at San Francisco, recently published images that show how the coronavirus can directly invade the heart muscle. McDevitt said he was so alarmed when he saw a sample of heart muscle cells in a petri dish get “diced” by the coronavirus that he had trouble sleeping for nights afterward.


More here.

[Classic-Xer]

(09-04-2020, 07:24 PM)TnT Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 10:30 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that the US health agencies are getting ready to release a vaccine just before the election.  There is conjecture that this is a political decision, that Trump's political people so much want a miracle to happen, for the bug to just go away, that they are going to override the medical people.

The medical profession and (due to vulnerability from lawsuits) pharmaceutical industry insist upon "safe and effective" treatments. The politicians who know about as much about medicine and medical research as they know about quantum mechanics (usually nothing) may insist upon pushing miracles. (It may be surprising, but some of the most advanced medical activity is in veterinary care). 

Good administrative techniques could have done far more good than any questionable miracles. Rushed vaccines and medications are ordinarily worthless or inexcusably harmful. We know Trump's record on many things: he is one of the biggest poseurs ever, and poseurs rarely get good results.

I've heard there's several vaccines that are very promising that were entering their final phase of testing about a month ago and the federal government had placed a massive order as well. I don't know if the Democratic party and all their media outlets wanted you to know that or not at the time or at this point either and prefers to keep its voters out of the loop for personal/political reasons of its own. Why are you guys so deaf, dumb and blind and seem so aloof and out of the loop when it comes to knowledge of important information that relates to an issue that scares Democratic voters and empowers Democratic regimes so much these days.

Being kind of a practical orientation, I'm waiting for the "plan."  Let's say, just for argument that there is an effective vaccine available sometime this year.  What's the "plan?"

1.  Who makes the exquisitely sterile vials in the tens of millions?
2.  Who makes the exquisitely sterile stoppers in the tens of millions?
3.  From whence comes the tens of millions of sterile syringes needed to inject the vaccine?
4.  How are the shipments divided up, allocated to the various parts of the country/world?
5.  Who ships them so that they do not get overheated, over chilled?
6.  Once they get where they are going, who picks up the shipments and decides who gets the vaccine?
7.  Who decides what order the various folks in the population get the vaccine?
8.  Who are the folks that organize the injections?
9.  How do they find the folks that need it the most?
10.  How are these folks notified that they need it?
11.  How do we deal with denialists who don't "believe" in vaccination?
12 ... et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum ...

I could go on like this for quite a while.  What I don't hear is any kind of detailed plan coming out of the Trumpists.  What?  Is Jared going to take this on?  (How did "testing" go?!!  We are finally getting around to asking Abbott, the largest manufacturer of clinical diagnostics in the world to start sending out good, fast tests.  When, in God's name, will that be underway so that testing can bring this shit to a conclusion??!)

Do we need a lot of testing for a virus that has proven not to be very deadly to most people? You do know that the most common cure is couple weeks of isolation and rest right. I assume the high risk and the most sick will be vaccinated first and the rest of us will be vaccinated eventually over time. You want to know a lot of stuff the someone else in the private sector is being paid to figure out right now or has already been paid to figure out and get the ball rolling on months ago.

[Classic-Xer]

(09-04-2020, 08:27 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: That is the point. Not only is testing tricky... so are logistics. Trump seems to believe that one can operate in "try something and see if it works". Such ranges from unconscionable to impossible. Tests of random cures to determine what works are more likely to result in pointless injury and death than in quick studies. I would guess that the attention is on antibodies. The analogy is to influenza. 

To be sure, people in desperate condition, as with terminal cancer, might be willing to endure experimental therapies that have some chance of killing them outright... but unlike experimental treatments, vaccines are used (optimally) upon healthy people who intend to not get the disease. 

It is now one day less than two months before the 2020 election, and at this point Donald Trump basically says "Trust me!" about a subject about which he knows nothing. 

Donald Trump is doing so badly that it is entirely possible that President Biden will be obliged to call Congress and the Senate to start over with a more rigid lockdown than the one that we had last time. Maybe it will be easier in the winter, when there are far fewer places that people want to go. Trump wasted the heroic efforts that many state governments, Big Business, and huge chunks of the American people made in the spring of 2020. This time it will be harsher only to the extent that states that responded ineffectively to COVID-19 (like Iowa) will make states that responded properly (like Minnesota) to get it right this time.  

I still have two words to describe the President's response to COVID-19:

NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE 

Dude, if NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE applied, you'd already be dead and I wouldn't be responding to your nonsense right now. Something else that you've ignored, the states of New York and New Jersey responded the most ineffectively so far and are still largely shutdown right now. California is now in the same boat as them. Michigan and Illinois haven't done all that greater either. Minnesota has listened to Trump and Minnesota has done much better than most blue states so far.

[pbrower2a]

(09-12-2020, 04:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 08:27 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: That is the point. Not only is testing tricky... so are logistics. Trump seems to believe that one can operate in "try something and see if it works". Such ranges from unconscionable to impossible. Tests of random cures to determine what works are more likely to result in pointless injury and death than in quick studies. I would guess that the attention is on antibodies. The analogy is to influenza. 

To be sure, people in desperate condition, as with terminal cancer, might be willing to endure experimental therapies that have some chance of killing them outright... but unlike experimental treatments, vaccines are used (optimally) upon healthy people who intend to not get the disease. 

It is now one day less than two months before the 2020 election, and at this point Donald Trump basically says "Trust me!" about a subject about which he knows nothing. 

Donald Trump is doing so badly that it is entirely possible that President Biden will be obliged to call Congress and the Senate to start over with a more rigid lockdown than the one that we had last time. Maybe it will be easier in the winter, when there are far fewer places that people want to go. Trump wasted the heroic efforts that many state governments, Big Business, and huge chunks of the American people made in the spring of 2020. This time it will be harsher only to the extent that states that responded ineffectively to COVID-19 (like Iowa) will make states that responded properly (like Minnesota) to get it right this time.  

I still have two words to describe the President's response to COVID-19:

NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE 

Dude, if NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE applied, you'd already be dead and I wouldn't be responding to your nonsense right now. Something else that you've ignored, the states of New York and New Jersey responded the most ineffectively so far and are still largely shutdown right now. California is now in the same boat as them. Michigan and Illinois  haven't done all that greater either. Minnesota has listened to Trump and Minnesota has done much better than most blue states so far.

I have done a good job shielding myself from COVID-19, have I not? I was early to start wearing a mask, and I use it even when I go to a drive-up window. Because of a mask I can go to the grocery store, the bank, the library, book stores, gas stations, a car-repair place, and even some restaurants (for take-out, of course). It also helps that I live in a rural area that got hit rather late, as opposed to Detroit -- which got hit early and hard. 

Michigan has done well by US standards in suppressing COVID-19 after the initial outbreak. It had the fourth-highest number of total deaths, and that has dropped to nine. We are now doing something right. Maybe not enough ideally, but we didn't have anything going on that could act as super-spreader events... like the big motorcyclist 'convention' in Sturgis, South Dakota.

At this point, people getting COVID-19 are often getting it through some act of extreme stupidity, and not by, for example, vulnerability due to their work.

[pbrower2a]

In dishonor of some monumental stupidity.... not, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and TR were antitheses of "stupid":




Reference to the great motorcycle 'convention' in Sturgis, South Dakota a few weeks ago. Governor Kristi Noem was pushing tourism to South Dakota. 

There may be plenty of Harleys available cheaply as some of those who went there die of COVID-19 or get medical conditions that preclude them ever riding a motorcycle (or even a bicycle) ever again. 

Nope. Not interested. Too dangerous, and too loud.

[pbrower2a]

September 2, Brookings South Dakota, where local pols were debating a mask mandate. 

Oh, look at all the stupid people!

................................

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (AP) — Coronavirus infections in the Dakotas are growing faster than anywhere else in the nation, fueling impassioned debates over masks and personal freedom after months in which the two states avoided the worst of the pandemic.
The argument over masks raged this week in Brookings, South Dakota, as the city council considered requiring face coverings in businesses. The city was forced to move its meeting to a local arena to accommodate intense interest, with many citizens speaking against it, before the mask requirement ultimately passed.

Amid the brute force of the pandemic, health experts warn that the infections must be contained before care systems are overwhelmed. North Dakota and South Dakota lead the country in new cases per capita over the last two weeks, ranking first and second respectively, according to Johns Hopkins University researchers.


South Dakota has also posted some of the country’s highest positivity rates for COVID-19 tests in the last week — over 17 percent — an indication that there are more infections than tests are catching.


Infections have been spurred by schools and universities reopening and mass gatherings like the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, which drew hundreds of thousands of people from across the country.

“It is not a surprise that South Dakota has one of the highest (COVID-19) reproduction rates in the country,” Brookings City Council member Nick Wendell said as he commented on the many people who forgo masks in public.

The Republican governors of both states have eschewed mask requirements, tapping into a spirit of independence hewn from enduring the winters and storms of the Great Plains.

The Dakotas were not always a hot spot. For months, the states appeared to avoid the worst of the pandemic, watching from afar as it raged through large cities. But spiking infection rates have fanned out across the nation, from the East Coast to the Sun Belt and now into the Midwest, where states like Iowa and Kansas are also dealing with surges.

When the case count stayed low during the spring and early summer, people grew weary of constantly taking precautions, said Dr. Benjamin Aaker, president of the South Dakota State Medical Association.

“People have a tendency to become complacent,” he said. “Then they start to relax the things that they were doing properly, and that’s when the increase in cases starts to go up.”



https://apnews.com/f4988865f4fad739e099b...45daffb675

[Bob Butler 54]

One of Trump's political lackeys proposed that the CDC's support of science is motivated by its opposition to Trump... and got his social media account on which he made the declaration deactivated.  Is pursuing science akin to hating Trump?

[Bob Butler 54]

A reporter asked Trump after an indoor rally which featured little in the way of masks and distancing why this policy wasn't a problem.  The response was to ask the reporter to stand a little further away.  Apparently, as long as he was safe, the policy was OK.  The rest of the American people were not a concern.

Anyway, CNN's Anderson Cooper put out a piece on the clash between what Trump knew and what he presented to the people.