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The cancer infecting the political Left
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.
How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.
Reply
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.
How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

Here's how he's going to do it, by the back door.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2...-drop-dead

OK, cut SS taxes means compromising the trust fund. The trust fund should be fixed by popping the cap. There is no reason why Warren Buffet should pay a lower tax rate on Social Security than the working class does.

Our profits?  So it's OK if Amazon has a lower tax rate than the working class?  Nope, can't go with that program. If you're ok with Amazon paying a lower tax rate than you do, fine. I can't change people.   Btw, do you care about worker safety? Remember, it was Trump who ordered the meat workers back to their jobs. That's why meat packing plants are Corona petri dishes. And lots of folks are already dying under the Republican regime.  Profits are more important than being able to handle disasters like pandemics. Pandemic planning isn't a profit center. That's why we have the mess we have now.  As far as pandemics and other things, the US is a typical shithole banana republic now.

Now if you want a perfect tax free paradise, may I suggest emigrating to Somalia. There are no taxes or regulations there.
---Value Added Cool
Reply
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.
How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(07-31-2020, 12:41 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.
How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

Here's how he's going to do it, by the back door.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2...-drop-dead

OK, cut SS taxes means compromising the trust fund. The trust fund should be fixed by popping the cap. There is no reason why Warren Buffet should pay a lower tax rate on Social Security than the working class does.

Our profits?  So it's OK if Amazon has a lower tax rate than the working class?  Nope, can't go with that program. If you're ok with Amazon paying a lower tax rate than you do, fine. I can't change people.   Btw, do you care about worker safety? Remember, it was Trump who ordered the meat workers back to their jobs. That's why meat packing plants are Corona petri dishes. And lots of folks are already dying under the Republican regime.  Profits are more important than being able to handle disasters like pandemics. Pandemic planning isn't a profit center. That's why we have the mess we have now.  As far as pandemics and other things, the US is a typical shithole banana republic now.

Now if you want a perfect tax free paradise, may I suggest emigrating to Somalia. There are no taxes or regulations there.
As long as we have a few books worth of complicated tax codes, Amazon and its owner Bezos will always have an advantage and pay less tax as a percentage than smaller business's and American working class tax payers. The American people eat meat and Trump understands that maintaining an adequate food supply during a crisis is important. Did you notice all the meat shortages that occurred after a few packing plants were shutdown for a while by the CDC because of COVID19.  I'm an essential worker, I place myself at risk by being out and about in public. I don't live in the big city. I live in a smaller city a stone throw away from the country. Plus, I can still go out this fall and kill it and grill it too. Dude, more people have died under the Democratic regimes so far. Oh, if you're interested in living in a place like Somalia, I'd suggest that you come up and check out Minneapolis or Chicago where the gangs rule right now. If Venezuela is more your style, I'd suggest California or New York City or New Jersey. I would say New City is on the teetering point between Somalia and Venezuela at this point.
Reply
(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.
The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.
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(07-30-2020, 10:57 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Abraham Lincoln said as the Civil War started to the effect that we should be concerned not with getting God on our side as whether we are on God's Side. If God is just, then if we too are just then we should reasonably expect His Aid in war. The Confederacy had some virtues in contrast to the Axis Powers, but they still fought to defend the abomination that is chattel slavery.

We ultimately won in World War II because we left the Other Side nothing for which to fight. Consider that there was no underground resistance to the British and Americans in Italy. We did not plunder. We did not destroy the rich legacy of Italian history and culture. The Nazis had their Werewolf cells, but these either decided to avoid trouble or were smashed easily because they had no local support. I have seen images of the American advances into Rome and Munich; Americans were seen as liberators. Japan? We had no resistance. Defeat isn't sweet, but the totalitarian regimes that had just wilted were far worse. 

As for the collapse of Communism -- no troops needed to move so much as an inch, except in Romania (where the Army turned against a dictator and his brutal secret police when those sought to preserve hard-line rule). 

...Donald Trump is a thoroughly vile person, and it is now clear that defeat looms for him. He deserves it for his support of dictators and now his bungling of COVID-19. 150 thousand people have died in America, and some communities are veritable concentration camps due to the disease.  

You don't get out enough, and that is not a change from when COVID-19 was not yet on the scene. You may like to believe that you are representative of America, which is an arrogant position. Your delusion of such is comparatively harmless because you cannot really hurt people. Trump's delusion that he is America and people unlike him are not America even if you lionize him will prove either true or false in November. Disapproval approaching 60% is difficult to cut down.
Dude, I'm one of the more popular and socially active guys you'd meet in real life. Honestly, Trump is no more vile than the liberal crud and the two bit Democratic politicians that we see on the side with the Left these days. I hope decimating/ weakening/dividing their half of the country to defeat Trump seems worth it to all the Democrats these days. Like I said, you win you lose, he wins you lose. Like I said, this is just the beginning of a hellish 4t and the only way to get to the other side of hell is by going through it.
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(07-31-2020, 07:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 02:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The social security fund gets more than it needs. Extra funds are stolen from SS to pay for other things. What other things? Things we liberals live on? Mostly for the military and the national debt to pay for your wars. We've got to win so much that we get tired of winning, right? National debt consists mostly of military spending and interest on the debt, plus the Obama stimulus that Trump is benefiting from and which was made necessary by your guy Bush. Now we have to add a lot to the debt to help YOU PEOPLE (small and big business profits and "working Americans"), and for unemployment benefits, to pay for the Trump Virus.
The Social Security Trust Fund has already been spent and is currently being tapped to cover the shortfall between the wage earners and recipients. We are paying for China's virus not Trump's virus. See, you're still thinking like a Democrat too. Dude, the bulk of Obama's stimulus went to shoring up Obama's base and about a quarter went to fixing some roads. The Obama stimulus was probably the biggest political scam in US history. I take that back, it's probably tied with Obamacare and Trump-Russian collusion. I watched that dip shit playing his partisan politics during the funeral the other day.

There has never been a shortfall of the SS trust fund which has to be covered. The trust fund was spent for non-SS purposes such as war and debt payments incurred by war.

The Trump Virus is now being paid for by additional debt imposed on future generations and more bond holders. I sure hope I'm thinking like a Democrat. Democrats today think and feel and Republicans do neither. The biggest political scam is probably Trump's claim that he helped the economy, when it was all due to Obama's great stimulus. Obama's base was all the working people that it helped, including the government workers that the Tea Party later fired, causing the economic recovery to stall. That stall was just what the Republicans wanted so they could depose Obama, and Romney ran on the stall. It didn't work because Obama was a much better candidate than Romney. Scores were 19-2 vs. 4-10. Romney had no chance.

The Trump-Russian collusion was successfully covered up by destroying evidence, just as Mueller reported.

The highlight of Obama's eulogy to the hero John Lewis was his statement about how the Republicans are trying to suppress the vote now. The Republicans close polling places, purge voters and impose barriers so poor people don't vote. This was most appropriate, as moderate David Brooks said today on the Newshour. If Obama had paid tribute to the cause I had dedicated my life to, said Brooks, I would not mind at all! Obama in his eulogy just continued to do what Lewis had done his whole life: make some good trouble. Looks like it succeeded to the extent that it made you upset and eager to denounce it!



"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(07-31-2020, 07:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 12:41 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.
How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

Here's how he's going to do it, by the back door.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2...-drop-dead

OK, cut SS taxes means compromising the trust fund. The trust fund should be fixed by popping the cap. There is no reason why Warren Buffet should pay a lower tax rate on Social Security than the working class does.

Our profits?  So it's OK if Amazon has a lower tax rate than the working class?  Nope, can't go with that program. If you're ok with Amazon paying a lower tax rate than you do, fine. I can't change people.   Btw, do you care about worker safety? Remember, it was Trump who ordered the meat workers back to their jobs. That's why meat packing plants are Corona petri dishes. And lots of folks are already dying under the Republican regime.  Profits are more important than being able to handle disasters like pandemics. Pandemic planning isn't a profit center. That's why we have the mess we have now.  As far as pandemics and other things, the US is a typical shithole banana republic now.

Now if you want a perfect tax free paradise, may I suggest emigrating to Somalia. There are no taxes or regulations there.
As long as we have a few books worth of complicated tax codes, Amazon and its owner Bezos will always have an advantage and pay less tax as a percentage than smaller business's and American working class tax payers. The American people eat meat and Trump understands that maintaining an adequate food supply during a crisis is important. Did you notice all the meat shortages that occurred after a few packing plants were shutdown for a while by the CDC because of COVID19.  I'm an essential worker, I place myself at risk by being out and about in public. I don't live in the big city. I live in a smaller city a stone throw away from the country. Plus, I can still go out this fall and kill it and grill it too. Dude, more people have died under the Democratic regimes so far. Oh, if you're interested in living in a place like Somalia, I'd suggest that you come up and check out Minneapolis or Chicago where the gangs rule right now. If Venezuela is more your style, I'd suggest California or New York City or New Jersey. I would say New City is on the teetering point between Somalia and Venezuela at this point.

Republicans have made the tax code the complicated and unfair mess that it is. Their schemes for simplifying it such as a flat tax would only benefit their rich clients. Meat is the worst possible food because it pollutes the most, takes up more land, causes more heart attacks, and stirs up more climate change, than any other agricultural product. No wonder Trump demands that it stay open and kill its workers. With Trump Virus unemployment, the fat meat cats can always find more workers to kill. You deal in fossil fuels, so Trump supports your work too. Illinois has a lower murder rate overall than any red state you can name. If you want to go to a place like Somalia, I would recommend Alaska where criminals go to hide and guns are easily available. They have the highest murder rate and gun violence rate. New York has a low murder rate, New Jersey is rated one of the best states to live in, and California does OK with its strict gun laws.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
Quote:Dude, I'm one of the more popular and socially active guys you'd meet in real life. Honestly, Trump is no more vile than the liberal crud and the two bit Democratic politicians that we see on the side with the Left these days
I don't care what you do in your personal life or how popular anyone is.  As for vileness, it's a matter of degree. The Republican agenda would destroy my future by making the US even more of a banana republic than it is now.



 
Quote:I hope decimating/ weakening/dividing their half of the country to defeat Trump seems worth it to all the Democrats these days.

Well, OK, if you want to be the mirror image of say Antifa, then so be it.  Here's the deal, if I could make a proper law for the likes of  Antifa and others no matter the ideology who are predisposed to violence, that law would be hooliganism.  Other countries have this law to quell idiots like soccer fans trashing stuff and being violent.
Antifa != peaceful protestors.  I'm not blinded by any ideology.  I don't want either antifa or proudbois pointing their guns around, roughing up folks, and trashing folks' stuff. 

So to answer your answer about Blue cities, yeah, Antifas a problem and politicians there need to get rid of them.  If they don't then folks who can leave , will.  That happened after the riots in the 1960's-1970's.  That's why I chose Oklahoma as a place to live. I grew up here and I didn't pick Oklahoma for the weather or scenery. 

Eric answered you other points about Blue city problems along with myself.  The protests are fine. We had them in Oklahoma without incident probably because Antifa knows they'd by locked away with some really ugly folks in McAlester.  And guess what, I'm fine with that option. Folks who commit violence, to further a political aim, that's the definition of  terrorist.  I'd go for the same for KKK or assorted neo nazi riffraff. 

As for fatcats paying less taxes.  Who the hell lobbied for those tax laws?  It's the fatcats who write the laws now for everything. You need to look up the income ladder instead of down for why the US is so fucked up. Here's another one for you.  You're only free if you're wealthy.  So there!
---Value Added Cool
Reply
Barack Obama's eulogy to John Lewis





Who built America? Who will be the founder of the new America?
https://youtu.be/V1pKoCq1bn0?t=1014

Can we afford to respect others, instead of being above them?
https://youtu.be/V1pKoCq1bn0?t=1100

The darker currents of our history can rise again. Even now, there are those in power trying to discourage people from voting.
https://youtu.be/V1pKoCq1bn0?t=1285

The voting rights act was a crowning achievement of our democracy. Republicans and Democrats acted. There's more to do.
https://youtu.be/V1pKoCq1bn0?t=1455
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(07-31-2020, 09:20 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 07:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 12:41 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.
How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

Here's how he's going to do it, by the back door.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2...-drop-dead

OK, cut SS taxes means compromising the trust fund. The trust fund should be fixed by popping the cap. There is no reason why Warren Buffet should pay a lower tax rate on Social Security than the working class does.

Our profits?  So it's OK if Amazon has a lower tax rate than the working class?  Nope, can't go with that program. If you're ok with Amazon paying a lower tax rate than you do, fine. I can't change people.   Btw, do you care about worker safety? Remember, it was Trump who ordered the meat workers back to their jobs. That's why meat packing plants are Corona petri dishes. And lots of folks are already dying under the Republican regime.  Profits are more important than being able to handle disasters like pandemics. Pandemic planning isn't a profit center. That's why we have the mess we have now.  As far as pandemics and other things, the US is a typical shithole banana republic now.

Now if you want a perfect tax free paradise, may I suggest emigrating to Somalia. There are no taxes or regulations there.
As long as we have a few books worth of complicated tax codes, Amazon and its owner Bezos will always have an advantage and pay less tax as a percentage than smaller business's and American working class tax payers. The American people eat meat and Trump understands that maintaining an adequate food supply during a crisis is important. Did you notice all the meat shortages that occurred after a few packing plants were shutdown for a while by the CDC because of COVID19.  I'm an essential worker, I place myself at risk by being out and about in public. I don't live in the big city. I live in a smaller city a stone throw away from the country. Plus, I can still go out this fall and kill it and grill it too. Dude, more people have died under the Democratic regimes so far. Oh, if you're interested in living in a place like Somalia, I'd suggest that you come up and check out Minneapolis or Chicago where the gangs rule right now. If Venezuela is more your style, I'd suggest California or New York City or New Jersey. I would say New City is on the teetering point between Somalia and Venezuela at this point.

Republicans have made the tax code the complicated and unfair mess that it is. Their schemes for simplifying it such as a flat tax would only benefit their rich clients. Meat is the worst possible food because it pollutes the most, takes up more land, causes more heart attacks, and stirs up more climate change, than any other agricultural product. No wonder Trump demands that it stay open and kill its workers. With Trump Virus unemployment, the fat meat cats can always find more workers to kill. You deal in fossil fuels, so Trump supports your work too. Illinois has a lower murder rate overall than any red state you can name. If you want to go to a place like Somalia, I would recommend Alaska where criminals go to hide and guns are easily available. They have the highest murder rate and gun violence rate. New York has a low murder rate, New Jersey is rated one of the best states to live in, and California does OK with its strict gun laws.

Republicans used to stand for the small businessman, the mom-and-pop store and restaurant, the small-town bank, the manufacturer with a limited market, and of course the family farmer. They well knew that they could not get away with showing unqualified support for rapacious tycoons who could squeeze out their small-business competition. They were slower than one might expect for a party that had the support of economic elites in reducing the taxes of the economic elites. 

Consider that the  1950's were the heyday of small business. Part of this was that the Lost still believed in business at every size, and not only giant enterprises, and that the Lost, who finally got to enjoy some economic success in a close-to-free-wheeling economy, had such an entrepreneurial bent. High,graduated taxes created niches for small businesses that no longer exist. Due to tax cuts that began with John Kennedy (to undo stagnation that had set in) that accelerated under Reagan to the point that they became unqualified orthodoxy. the model of American business went from mom-and-pop businesses to monopolistic, vertically-integrated behemoths that could squeeze out the competition of small businesses in  banking, manufacturing, and even services. A flat tax that imposes the same corporate income tax on a mom-and-pop restaurant that offers better Mexican food than Taco Bell or better Chinese food than Panda Express must compete with owners of Taco Bell and Panda Express. If the IRS audits a small gift shop for a day, then that gift shop shuts down. Wal*Mart, due to an economy of scale, can better deal with the IRS. Add to this, Corporate America has the power of advertising budgets that small businesses (which must work with word-of-mouth opinions of quality and service) can never afford. Add to this, Corporate  America and hire lobbyists... and sponsor politicians who believe as tycoons and executives do, that no human suffering on behalf of those elites can ever be in excess so long as those elites get what they want -- more, more, and more. If that means a war for profit, then so be it, no matter how many must die for the execution of that war. 

That, Classic X'er, is the cancer -- a cancer of the soul that can turn America into a plutocratic nightmare in which more than 90% of the people suffer for a minuscule fraction of the American people that tolerates no challenge to its domination of economic and political life, a situation that remains until perhaps some war for profit turns into a catastrophic defeat that either topples the leadership directly (that describes Nazi Germany very well) or leads to the overthrow of that elite in a revolution in which people claiming to speak on behalf of the masses (which describes Imperial Russia very well) overthrow the social order and institute a 'socialist' dictatorship.  

For a biological analogue to the cancer of the soul I might suggest one of the most lethal cancers, one that develops with little warning and is difficult to diagnose until it is too late, when it makes every nerve shout in agony: pancreatic cancer. The cancer that you see is a minor skin cancer that can be excised easily in a dermatologist's office much as a dermatologist excised a non-cancerous (but ugly) sebacious cyst -- the latter basically a pimple that never erupts but instead keeps growing

(A little detail on the cyst that I had: it was about the size of a kernel of corn, it was shaped like a football, and it was pale yellow in color. I would have loved to watch that cyst carbonize in sulfuric acid...)
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply
(08-01-2020, 02:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 09:20 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 07:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 12:41 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

Here's how he's going to do it, by the back door.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2...-drop-dead

OK, cut SS taxes means compromising the trust fund. The trust fund should be fixed by popping the cap. There is no reason why Warren Buffet should pay a lower tax rate on Social Security than the working class does.

Our profits?  So it's OK if Amazon has a lower tax rate than the working class?  Nope, can't go with that program. If you're ok with Amazon paying a lower tax rate than you do, fine. I can't change people.   Btw, do you care about worker safety? Remember, it was Trump who ordered the meat workers back to their jobs. That's why meat packing plants are Corona petri dishes. And lots of folks are already dying under the Republican regime.  Profits are more important than being able to handle disasters like pandemics. Pandemic planning isn't a profit center. That's why we have the mess we have now.  As far as pandemics and other things, the US is a typical shithole banana republic now.

Now if you want a perfect tax free paradise, may I suggest emigrating to Somalia. There are no taxes or regulations there.
As long as we have a few books worth of complicated tax codes, Amazon and its owner Bezos will always have an advantage and pay less tax as a percentage than smaller business's and American working class tax payers. The American people eat meat and Trump understands that maintaining an adequate food supply during a crisis is important. Did you notice all the meat shortages that occurred after a few packing plants were shutdown for a while by the CDC because of COVID19.  I'm an essential worker, I place myself at risk by being out and about in public. I don't live in the big city. I live in a smaller city a stone throw away from the country. Plus, I can still go out this fall and kill it and grill it too. Dude, more people have died under the Democratic regimes so far. Oh, if you're interested in living in a place like Somalia, I'd suggest that you come up and check out Minneapolis or Chicago where the gangs rule right now. If Venezuela is more your style, I'd suggest California or New York City or New Jersey. I would say New City is on the teetering point between Somalia and Venezuela at this point.

Republicans have made the tax code the complicated and unfair mess that it is. Their schemes for simplifying it such as a flat tax would only benefit their rich clients. Meat is the worst possible food because it pollutes the most, takes up more land, causes more heart attacks, and stirs up more climate change, than any other agricultural product. No wonder Trump demands that it stay open and kill its workers. With Trump Virus unemployment, the fat meat cats can always find more workers to kill. You deal in fossil fuels, so Trump supports your work too. Illinois has a lower murder rate overall than any red state you can name. If you want to go to a place like Somalia, I would recommend Alaska where criminals go to hide and guns are easily available. They have the highest murder rate and gun violence rate. New York has a low murder rate, New Jersey is rated one of the best states to live in, and California does OK with its strict gun laws.

Republicans used to stand for the small businessman, the mom-and-pop store and restaurant, the small-town bank, the manufacturer with a limited market, and of course the family farmer. They well knew that they could not get away with showing unqualified support for rapacious tycoons who could squeeze out their small-business competition. They were slower than one might expect for a party that had the support of economic elites in reducing the taxes of the economic elites. 

Consider that the  1950's were the heyday of small business. Part of this was that the Lost still believed in business at every size, and not only giant enterprises, and that the Lost, who finally got to enjoy some economic success in a close-to-free-wheeling economy, had such an entrepreneurial bent. High,graduated taxes created niches for small businesses that no longer exist. Due to tax cuts that began with John Kennedy (to undo stagnation that had set in) that accelerated under Reagan to the point that they became unqualified orthodoxy. the model of American business went from mom-and-pop businesses to monopolistic, vertically-integrated behemoths that could squeeze out the competition of small businesses in  banking, manufacturing, and even services. A flat tax that imposes the same corporate income tax on a mom-and-pop restaurant that offers better Mexican food than Taco Bell or better Chinese food than Panda Express must compete with owners of Taco Bell and Panda Express. If the IRS audits a small gift shop for a day, then that gift shop shuts down. Wal*Mart, due to an economy of scale, can better deal with the IRS. Add to this, Corporate America has the power of advertising budgets that small businesses (which must work with word-of-mouth opinions of quality and service) can never afford. Add to this, Corporate  America and hire lobbyists... and sponsor politicians who believe as tycoons and executives do, that no human suffering on behalf of those elites can ever be in excess so long as those elites get what they want -- more, more, and more. If that means a war for profit, then so be it, no matter how many must die for the execution of that war. 

That, Classic X'er, is the cancer -- a cancer of the soul that can turn America into a plutocratic nightmare in which more than 90% of the people suffer for a minuscule fraction of the American people that tolerates no challenge to its domination of economic and political life, a situation that remains until perhaps some war for profit turns into a catastrophic defeat that either topples the leadership directly (that describes Nazi Germany very well) or leads to the overthrow of that elite in a revolution in which people claiming to speak on behalf of the masses (which describes Imperial Russia very well) overthrow the social order and institute a 'socialist' dictatorship.  

For a biological analogue to the cancer of the soul I might suggest one of the most lethal cancers, one that develops with little warning and is difficult to diagnose until it is too late, when it makes every nerve shout in agony: pancreatic cancer. The cancer that you see is a minor skin cancer that can be excised easily in a dermatologist's office much as a dermatologist excised a non-cancerous (but ugly) sebacious cyst -- the latter basically a pimple that never erupts but instead keeps growing

(A little detail on the cyst that I had: it was about the size of a kernel of corn, it was shaped like a football, and it was pale yellow in color. I would have loved to watch that cyst carbonize in sulfuric acid...)
PB, I live in a Democratic state that has no qualms or moral issues with big business (utilities and national chains) competing with me directly. I assume that you are blind to the fact that the Democratic party is in bed with big business.
Reply
(08-07-2020, 01:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: PB, I live in a Democratic state that has no qualms or moral issues with big business (utilities and national chains) competing with me directly. I assume that you are blind to the fact that the Democratic party is in bed with big business.

Yes. During the progressive era, the Democrats were the party of the working man. The Republicans leaned towards the elites. But by the middle of the unravelling, both parties would accept money from the elites. Unsurprisingly, benefits were weakened, unions were weakened, and jobs were sent overseas. This is one of the reasons folks are not overly thrilled to see Biden as an establishment figure getting the nod.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Reply
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.

How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

There are interests who want to see labor unions gutted, and who want to abandon Medicare and Social Security to the private sector. There are people who want to privatize the postal service and the highways to monopolistic gougers.  Such people want extreme disparities of economic results even if such kills people through hunger and medical disasters. 

People like that are the best friends that revolutionary socialists of the Marxist-Leninist type have... the sorts of people who make a proletarian revolution inevitable at the time of a military debacle or natural disaster. 

Wanton cruelty is the basis of great evil.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply
(07-31-2020, 11:32 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:
Quote:Dude, I'm one of the more popular and socially active guys you'd meet in real life. Honestly, Trump is no more vile than the liberal crud and the two bit Democratic politicians that we see on the side with the Left these days
I don't care what you do in your personal life or how popular anyone is.  As for vileness, it's a matter of degree. The Republican agenda would destroy my future by making the US even more of a banana republic than it is now.



 
Quote:I hope decimating/ weakening/dividing their half of the country to defeat Trump seems worth it to all the Democrats these days.

Well, OK, if you want to be the mirror image of say Antifa, then so be it.  Here's the deal, if I could make a proper law for the likes of  Antifa and others no matter the ideology who are predisposed to violence, that law would be hooliganism.  Other countries have this law to quell idiots like soccer fans trashing stuff and being violent.
Antifa != peaceful protestors.  I'm not blinded by any ideology.  I don't want either antifa or proudbois pointing their guns around, roughing up folks, and trashing folks' stuff. 

So to answer your answer about Blue cities, yeah, Antifas a problem and politicians there need to get rid of them.  If they don't then folks who can leave , will.  That happened after the riots in the 1960's-1970's.  That's why I chose Oklahoma as a place to live. I grew up here and I didn't pick Oklahoma for the weather or scenery. 

Eric answered you other points about Blue city problems along with myself.  The protests are fine. We had them in Oklahoma without incident probably because Antifa knows they'd by locked away with some really ugly folks in McAlester.  And guess what, I'm fine with that option. Folks who commit violence, to further a political aim, that's the definition of  terrorist.  I'd go for the same for KKK or assorted neo nazi riffraff. 

As for fatcats paying less taxes.  Who the hell lobbied for those tax laws?  It's the fatcats who write the laws now for everything. You need to look up the income ladder instead of down for why the US is so fucked up. Here's another one for you.  You're only free if you're wealthy.  So there!
Dude, as long as the West Coast and the Northeast Liberals (the Liberal plutocracy) represent you and your interests, Democratic big government tax and spend believers like you are pretty much positioned to be screwed either way. You see, your side of the Democratic party is pretty much handcuffed and powerless at this point. I mean, in a way, your side is in the same position as the few Rhino's and whoever still identifies with them and still believes in the big government notion of having it both ways these days.
Reply
(08-07-2020, 01:50 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 11:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:45 PM),Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Things got this way after 40 years of "lower my taxes, get rid of regulation" Republican policies. Here's the deal, I'm going with the Zombie because Trump wants to take away my Social Security/Medicare , worker safety, etc. No more shrddeding the remaining safety nets by Republicans. They've destroyed  enough enough already. That's a red line for me.  Since the Republicans are still at this project , I'll vote for even a yellow dog, over Trump and any Republican down ticket.

As for shots, "like the old days".. I have a problem with that also. Every civilized country in the world has publicly funded shots, except for the US. As for the Covid shot, it's not going to be free either.  This is stupid. Healthcare should never be a privately supplied service.  People over profits!   The American Right fat cats are the ones who are the most about the benjamins. That's the problem. As for China, I don't care about that issue either.  If anyone has a problem with China, it's the American fatcats who made China what is today.  If China wants to take stuff away from "American" companies, fine.  Let those fuckers pay for the mistake they made , chasing cheap labor. Fuck 'em.  "American" companies can eat shit and die.   It's all about the benjamins for me, just enough to not be on the streets or starving. If AOC want's poor people to have more,  more power to here.

Yes, I know damn well Biden bad, but the Republicans have done jumped the shark. At least there's a chance the youngins and Bernie can light a fire under some butts who want to to be Neoliberals/Neocons.

How is Trump going to take away our social security, medicare, worker protections without American support? Like I said, you have to stop think like a Democrat and start thinking like an American. I was a typical American worker too at one time. As a matter of fact, I don't know a Republican voter/supporter who isn't/wasn't a typical American worker these days. Dude, the safety nets are being watered down (inadequately funded) by all the added financial commitments and obligations. We have to break free from the bulk of liberal commitments and the only candidate that I've seen trying to do it so far is Trump. One other thing, YOU PEOPLE ARE LIVING OFF OUR PROFITS and Projected Profits. Me, I'll be happy to keep my profits and let/ watch you people die under the Democratic regime. You see, I don't owe you or the Democratic party shit.

There are interests who want to see labor unions gutted, and who want to abandon Medicare and Social Security to the private sector. There are people who want to privatize the postal service and the highways to monopolistic gougers.  Such people want extreme disparities of economic results even if such kills people through hunger and medical disasters. 

People like that are the best friends that revolutionary socialists of the Marxist-Leninist type have... the sorts of people who make a proletarian revolution inevitable at the time of a military debacle or natural disaster. 

Wanton cruelty is the basis of great evil.
Well, if you elect a Zombie, that's what's going to happen to the portion of the country that's still run by Democrats eventually. I mean, how are you going to be able to afford all of that stuff after loosing the bulk of the US economy? I suppose, you could sacrifice a bunch of rights and financially hook up with China or inadvertently support something stupid like that taking place today.
Reply
(08-07-2020, 02:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, as long as the West Coast and the Northeast Liberals (the Liberal plutocracy) represent you and your interests, Democratic big government tax and spend believers like you are pretty much positioned to be screwed either way.

LBJ went for the black vote, the Republicans responded by going after the racist vote, and there were simply more racists than blacks.  We got the conservative era as a result.  The tax and spend period was the time America was great.  The Republicans killed America, the elites for dollars, the racists so they could be above minorities.  I don't see it worth it.  Both trends have to be reversed.

With the Tea Party going after that elitist influence and the Black Lives Matter movement going after the racists, it is possible that the conservatives could become what they always should have been.  It may take them a while to shake the Trump administration corruption and power seeking, not to mention Bush 43's attempts to revive colonialism and spread culture by force.  They went well beyond the point of diminishing returns during the unraveling, so they will leave the Democrats lots of room to restore domestic spending to the benefit of the working man.  Do you think after the pandemic folk will be more open to an inclusive health plan?  Do you think loyalty to the working man might pay off again?

But there is room for the conservatives to regroup.  They may have to accept some time to do so, for the Democrats to tax and spend themselves out of popularity, for the problems the Republicans ignored during the unraveling to be addressed, but the Lincoln Project, VoteVets and Republican Voters Against Trump are leaving room for the conservatives to become what they should always have been.

But it looks like some patience will be required.  The Republicans have gone a long way towards discrediting themselves.  If you are expecting a short term success I suspect you will be disappointed.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Reply
(08-07-2020, 01:34 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-07-2020, 01:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: PB, I live in a Democratic state that has no qualms or moral issues with big business (utilities and national chains) competing with me directly. I assume that you are blind to the fact that the Democratic party is in bed with big business.

Yes.  During the progressive era, the Democrats were the party of the working man.  The Republicans leaned towards the elites.  But by the middle of the unravelling, both parties would accept money from the elites.  Unsurprisingly, benefits were weakened, unions were weakened, and jobs were sent overseas.  This is one of the reasons folks are not overly thrilled to see Biden as an establishment figure getting the nod.
Well, I never belonged or placed my faith in the so called working mans party and view the working mans party as an old Democratic cliche that's pretty much meaningless these days. I know several members of the so called working mans party who are coming to the realization that the party no longer represents them or their primary interests or concerns today.
Reply
(08-07-2020, 03:19 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-07-2020, 02:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Dude, as long as the West Coast and the Northeast Liberals (the Liberal plutocracy) represent you and your interests, Democratic big government tax and spend believers like you are pretty much positioned to be screwed either way.

LBJ went for the black vote, the Republicans responded by going after the racist vote, and there were simply more racists than blacks.  We got the conservative era as a result.  The tax and spend period was the time America was great.  The Republicans killed America, the elites for dollars, the racists so they could be above minorities.  I don't see it worth it.  Both trends have to be reversed.

With the Tea Party going after that elitist influence and the Black Lives Matter movement going after the racists, it is possible that the conservatives could become what they always should have been.  It may take them a while to shake the Trump administration corruption and power seeking, not to mention Bush 43's attempts to revive colonialism and spread culture by force.  They went well beyond the point of diminishing returns during the unraveling, so they will leave the Democrats lots of room to restore domestic spending to the benefit of the working man.  Do you think after the pandemic folk will be more open to an inclusive health plan?  Do you think loyalty to the working man might pay off again?

But there is room for the conservatives to regroup.  They may have to accept some time to do so, for the Democrats to tax and spend themselves out of popularity, for the problems the Republicans ignored during the unraveling to be addressed, but the Lincoln Project, VoteVets and Republican Voters Against Trump are leaving room for the conservatives to become what they should always have been.

But it looks like some patience will be required.  The Republicans have gone a long way towards discrediting themselves.  If you are expecting a short term success I suspect you will be disappointed.
You mean, LBJ bought off the bulk of the black vote which the Democratic party still takes for granted and still takes advantage of today. I agree, the Republicans haven't come around to the idea of becoming America's party yet and possibly will never be able to accept it either. I mean, it's pretty obvious that a small portion of the party prefers to remain the GOP only and prefers it's old GOP way of life centered on living on easy street.
Reply
(08-07-2020, 03:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(08-07-2020, 01:34 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(08-07-2020, 01:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: PB, I live in a Democratic state that has no qualms or moral issues with big business (utilities and national chains) competing with me directly. I assume that you are blind to the fact that the Democratic party is in bed with big business.

Yes.  During the progressive era, the Democrats were the party of the working man.  The Republicans leaned towards the elites.  But by the middle of the unravelling, both parties would accept money from the elites.  Unsurprisingly, benefits were weakened, unions were weakened, and jobs were sent overseas.  This is one of the reasons folks are not overly thrilled to see Biden as an establishment figure getting the nod.
Well, I never belonged or placed my faith in the so called working mans party and view the working mans party as an old Democratic cliche that's pretty much meaningless these days. I know several members of the so called working mans party who are coming to the realization that the party no longer represents them or their primary interests or concerns today.

Wise not to put your faith, but you should put it in neither party. During the unraveling, money seemed to over ride votes. Both parties were parties of the elites.

May shift with the need to get rid of the Trump Republicans, We might be patriotic and loyal to the Constitution and solving the crisis problems for a while. But I can't blame you for being dubious. It is just confusing that you are not being dubious about the elite racist party even if you don't push the two influences that so taint the Republicans.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Reply


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