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Fictional characters and archetypes
#1
Name the generation or archetype of each of the following fictional characters from TV, film, and literature:

Jessica Jones (Jessica Jones)
Daria Morgandorffer (Daria)
Nucky Thompson (Boardwalk Empire)
Jay Gatsby (The Great Gatsby)
Tony "Iron Man" Stark (MCU)
Sally Draper (Mad Men)
Tony Soprano (The Sopranos)
Scarlett O' Hara (Gone With the Wind)
Wolverine (X-Men)
Kevin Arnold (The Wonder Years)
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#2
(03-12-2017, 10:49 PM)GeekyCynic Wrote: Name the generation or archetype of each of the following fictional characters from TV, film, and literature:

I'll bite.

Jessica Jones (Jessica Jones) Don't know who that is, never watched that show/read that book.

Daria Morgandorffer (Daria) X. Specifically late wave X. (Quinn is likely an Early Millie) archetype Nomad

Nucky Thompson (Boardwalk Empire) Lost archetype Nomad

Jay Gatsby (The Great Gatsby) Lost archetype Nomad

Tony "Iron Man" Stark (MCU) No frame of reference.

Sally Draper (Mad Men) Boomer archetype Idealist

Tony Soprano (The Sopranos) Late Silent or Early Boomer. archetype most likely Idealist

Scarlett O' Hara (Gone With the Wind) Guilded, most likely Bloody Shirt Archetype Civic

Wolverine (X-Men) No frame of reference. (I didn't read comic books as a kid and I'm unlikely to take them up now as a middle aged man)

Kevin Arnold (The Wonder Years) Disco Boomer archetype Idealist
It really is all mathematics.

Turn on to Daddy, Tune in to Nationalism, Drop out of UN/NATO/WTO/TPP/NAFTA/CAFTA Globalism.
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#3
Tony Stark is a Boomer (admittedly with an Xer playing him on film now), and Wolverine is Lost.
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#4
Nucky Thompson would be Missionary Generation, likely, as he is a middle aged Prohibition-era Atlantic City political boss.  The younger men in the show are Lost Generation--Jimmy Darmody, Al Capone, Lucky Luciano.  I watched a few episodes of that show a while back.

Jessica Jones is a Millennial, I guess.  I've watched the first season of the TV show, which seems to take place in the present.  But according to wiki, the character was first introduced in 2001, and she is supposed to have gone to high school with Peter Parker (Spider Man).  I'm not an authority on comic book superheroes.
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#5
(03-13-2017, 09:21 PM)gabrielle Wrote: Nucky Thompson would be Missionary Generation, likely, as he is a middle aged Prohibition-era Atlantic City political boss.  The younger men in the show are Lost Generation--Jimmy Darmody, Al Capone, Lucky Luciano.  I watched a few episodes of that show a while back.

The character he is based on, Enoch "Nucky" Johnson, was born in 1883, putting him in the very first Lost cohort.  The character, in the show, was born a bit earlier, in 1870, making him a Missionary.
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#6
Considering we have to take the year of birth of the franchise into account, the Sonic the Hedgehog characters might be all GenX characters. Especially the late third of them.

Sonic = 15 = 1991 - 15 = 1976 = GenX

Tails = 8 = 1992 - 8 = 1984 = Millie

Knuckles = 16 = 1993 - 16 = 1977 = GenX

Amy = 12 = 1993 - 12 = 1981 = GenX
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#7
(03-14-2017, 10:45 AM)Lemanic Wrote: Considering we have to take the year of birth of the franchise into account, the Sonic the Hedgehog characters might be all GenX characters. Especially the late third of them.

Sonic = 15 = 1991 - 15 = 1976 = GenX

Tails = 8 = 1992 - 8 = 1984 = Millie

Knuckles = 16 = 1993 - 16 = 1977 = GenX

Amy = 12 = 1993 - 12 = 1981 = GenX

Tails was obviously a Millie.
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#8
Wolverine in Comic: Lost
Wolverine in Movies: Gilded
in both cases Nomad


For the Star Wars characters:
Palpatine Prophet
Tarkin Nomad
Obi-Wan Hero
Darth Vader Hero
Han Solo Artist
Luke & Leia Prophet
Kylo Ren Nomad
Rey Hero
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#9
During the discussion with Strauss and Howe, when we were watching David Kaisers film clips, in I think 1999, it was pointed out that the stories were often written a few years earlier than when filmed, and the authors often had a sense of generations a few years out of date. So, generally, a character of a certain age in a TV show or film might be representing a generation of someone born a few to several years earlier.
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#10
Not all that surprising, as scriptwriters ordinarily create characters often composites of people that they knew, which usually means characters older that the people that they call for. An X writer surely knows Boomers far better than the Millennial Generation. Thus we get some distortion.

Just consider Star Wars: A New Hope. Obi Wan Kenobe is undeniably an idealist character, someone who knows that his time is practically up. The Emperor and the mercenary Han Solo are Reactive characters. Luke and Leia Skywalker are Civic.

Now for the irony -- the characters playing them are in real life two generations apart from their characters. Alec Guinness is a (civic) GI, and he didn't particularly like the role. He did it well enough, I'd say. James Earl Jones, the voice of Darth Vader, is Silent, as is Harrison Ford. Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher are Boomers.

The Republic looks much like the UK in World War II, and the Empire looks much like Nazi Germany.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#11
Boomers are hypocrites, like all "Prophets" - but after all, they're just playing heroes, they don't have to be.

Harrison Ford did a good job playing an anti-hero, though.

RIP Han Solo, you were the best.
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#12
No wonder the new movies are crap. They wanted a rehash of the old story - but the Heroes from the original trilogy have grown old, and don't really have useful advice. The younger generations would be Artists, maybe "Prophets" - but what kind of story does that combination allow?
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#13
(07-11-2018, 01:44 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: No wonder the new movies are crap. They wanted a rehash of the old story - but the Heroes from the original trilogy have grown old, and don't really have useful advice. The younger generations would be Artists, maybe "Prophets" - but what kind of story does that combination allow?

Farce.

In the High, some youth chafe against the rigidity of the post-Crisis order. If there is little room for rebellion, there is room for whimsy. The rebels are either delinquents or people shut out of fully enjoying the benefits of the High (think of blacks in the 1950s).
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#14
(07-11-2018, 01:44 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: No wonder the new movies are crap. They wanted a rehash of the old story - but the Heroes from the original trilogy have grown old, and don't really have useful advice. The younger generations would be Artists, maybe "Prophets" - but what kind of story does that combination allow?

Another response, but this time about movies:


Are you aware that the Golden Year of American cinema (1939) is now almost 80 years (roughly a saeculum) away? I used to disparage movies rich in special effects for largely being intellectually empty and having bad writing -- but have you actually gone to the movies lately, or at least rented recently-released movies?

True, Dunkirk and The Darkest Hour are both British -- and it may be more than coincidence that they reflect events of 78 years ago. But the British and American film markets have much overlap. OK, Churchill, the optimal leader for a Crisis Era figures heavily... but contrast Donald Trump to Churchill, and Trump does not stand up well.

Speaking of special effects -- I used to consider special effects more a distraction than a contribution. On the other hand... Marvel seems to dispel this. I have seen an unusual number of recent releases... and, yes, I can tell you that Winchester, which is about some elderly women with rocks for brains build an eccentric house for keeping some spirits away from them.

Yes, I love classic movies for superb acting, directing, and script. Cinema is the definitive twentieth-century art form, and people will remember the twentieth century more for movies than music, sculpture, painting, or literature. But let us remember that the technology is more advanced, and I would not cast off Doctor Strange or Black Panther, movies that dispel some of my long-standing belief that special effects are a cover for weakness of acting and script.

There has never been so much creative talent in any time as there is today. There has never been a better market for high-quality productions. Fourth Turnings can be Golden Ages of creativity -- just think of the Golden Age of Cinema... and the Big Band Era (the time producing the highest quality of popular music ever written, unless you wish to consider Haydn and Mozart "popular" in the sense that the Beatles were in their time... in the latter part of the 18th century. Both Haydn and Mozart stand up well today.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#15
(07-11-2018, 05:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(07-11-2018, 01:44 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: No wonder the new movies are crap. They wanted a rehash of the old story - but the Heroes from the original trilogy have grown old, and don't really have useful advice. The younger generations would be Artists, maybe "Prophets" - but what kind of story does that combination allow?

Farce.

In the High, some youth chafe against the rigidity of the post-Crisis order. If there is little room for rebellion, there is room for whimsy. The rebels are either delinquents or people shut out of fully enjoying the benefits of the High (think of blacks in the 1950s).

Yeah, makes kinda sense.
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#16
(07-11-2018, 01:18 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: Boomers are hypocrites, like all "Prophets" - but after all, they're just playing heroes, they don't have to be.

Harrison Ford did a good job playing an anti-hero, though.

RIP Han Solo, you were the best.

-- & he was killed by his whiny punk brat of all ppl. That's when Star Wars jumped the shark. Now that Carrie Fisher's dead 4 real, so is Star Wars
Heart  Bernie/Tulsi 2020    Heart
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#17
(08-02-2018, 12:31 PM)Marypoza Wrote:
(07-11-2018, 01:18 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: Boomers are hypocrites, like all "Prophets" - but after all, they're just playing heroes, they don't have to be.

Harrison Ford did a good job playing an anti-hero, though.

RIP Han Solo, you were the best.

-- & he was killed by his whiny punk brat of all ppl. That's when Star Wars jumped the shark. Now that Carrie Fisher's dead 4 real, so is Star Wars

I agree, but they'll still play it out to finish the trilogy-trilogy.  At 9 films, that cake is baked!

FWIW, I saw the first film on opening weekend in 1977, and the other two in the original trilogy soon after each was released.  I skipped episodes 1-3, but dragged myself to The Force Awakens.  I'm conflicted about the last 2: I've avoided The Last Jedi so far.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#18
The end of the Star Wars saga will probably be a slave revolt by the Stormtroopers. My guess.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#19
(08-02-2018, 01:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The end of the Star Wars saga will probably be a slave revolt by the Stormtroopers. My guess.

Highly possible.  A lot of the Star Wars saga is faux-Biblical, so that would be a good fit.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#20
(07-11-2018, 01:18 PM)Hintergrund Wrote: Boomers are hypocrites, like all "Prophets" - but after all, they're just playing heroes, they don't have to be.

Harrison Ford did a good job playing an anti-hero, though.

RIP Han Solo, you were the best.

There are two main sorts of hypocrites. One is the person with ideals to which he cannot live up. I won;t give the reasons; we all know them.

The other is someone who pretends to have great ideals and callously betrays them for gain. Think of the person who has all the perquisites of capitalist indulgence and affiliation while spying for the Soviet Union.

The vast majority of people are hypocrites, no matter what their station, generation, age, or origin. So who is not a hypocrite?

Either someone purely a saint or the person bad and proud of it.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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