We are getting old.

[pbrower2a]

I found this in the old Obituaries thread in the T4T forum from 2012. As I discussed the death of Davy Jones at age 66 from what sounded like an old man's disease which elicits more sympathy from me than does wrecking one's body with drugs, booze, or extreme obesity.

pbrower2a Wrote:I have plenty of euphemisms for my age -- as in "It's a young 56" that I can justify because I don't have diabetes or liver problems -- and I still have good knees. I'd like to lose about as many pounds as I have years, and I would rather be around people who act and think young. A gout attack can remind me of how old I am and compel me to use handicap parking. Without gout, I can do some hiking and swimming. I'd rather be where I can do both.

But I know how old I am when I expose how much a Boomer I am through my knowledge, my memories (I can remember John F. Kennedy!), and my tastes in music (classical -- and I miss the large selections of CDs of classical music that used to be accessible) and especially movies. I expose my age when I find that the mass culture no longer fits me. I also know that advertisers have little use for me unless it is for items and experiences for the elderly.

But just as 16 and 16 and is short of adulthood even for someone mature for the age, 56 is 56 and is clearly no longer young even if one is intellectually alert and in generally good health. Could I be a good influence upon teenagers? Almost certainly. But don't expect me to be so much a pal as a mentor. If I should ever marry a woman with children I might share A Clockwork Orange with her but keep it under lock and key because it is an R-rated movie... and Meet Me in St. Louis with her and the kids.

Addendum, as one might expect after four years

Update: I have lost 20 of those pounds.

I have also lost lots of old relatives, too. I wonder if I am getting obsolete.

....Maybe I need to develop the knack for code-switching when referring to time. Introducing the past to people who might learn from it isn't all bad. That is the most benign way to preserve the past. Preserving old neuroses, bigotry, sentimentality, and corrupt institutions is hurtful, and such does more to hurt the young and ultimately alienate them from the old than even difference.

[Odin]

As an early-wave Millie who just turned 30 I am feeling like I close to completely losing my ability to relate to today's teens, I can definitely "feel" on a visceral level that the cusp of a new generation is approaching adulthood.

We Millennials are not the "kids", anymore.

[pbrower2a]

(05-15-2016, 01:05 PM)Odin Wrote: As an early-wave Millie who just turned 30 I am feeling like I close to completely losing my ability to relate to today's teens, I can definitely "feel" on a visceral level that the cusp of a new generation is approaching adulthood.

We Millennials are not the "kids", anymore.

Getting detached from the youth culture? I thought that that was a Boomer phenomenon around 1980 when the pop culture went from being made for Boomers to being made for Generation X. So that is nothing new.

So I learned something. Maybe I'm not so old, after all.

[pbrower2a]

The rock stars, once expressions of youthful vitality, are themselves getting old.

Retrieved from the old Obituaries forum on the T4T site,

(Yes, this is my material):

Those who can perform or create are as hooked on what they do as an addict is on heroin. As with heroin, performance and creation become the cornerstone of life. The obvious difference is that heroin destroys. Creation and performance are possible means of achieving what Abraham Maslow calls self-actualization. (To be sure, artists who live miserable lives because they are miserable people, like Richard Wagner and Vincent Van Gogh, never achieve self-actualization). It may be a different activity, but last week I saw a performance of Il Trovatore on PBS. I had never seen such happy people in my life even if the opera is a tragedy.

Performing in the St. Joseph County Fair is still performing, even if it is in St. Joseph County, Michigan. It offers the same endorphins. Finding cheering crowds who travel from tens of miles away gives much the same effect as performing in Madison Square Garden.

As we all know, the early rock stars are genuinely old. But if they have avoided the STDs, alcoholism, and drug overdoses that have killed many, they can perform until their health gives out. Stage performance is a healthy activity, whether it is playing rock on an electric guitar or conducting a symphony orchestra. Some of them have followed the pattern of GIs as late-wave Silent and early-wave Boomers, staying fit and active as long as possible. Deaths of David Bowie and Glenn Frye notwithstanding, some of the early-wave rockers could live into their nineties.

So avoid drugs, alcoholism, and reckless sex, and the physical activity is better for one than the sedentary non-activity of some obese checker-cashier whose employer accommodates an ursine weight (but without the ursine agility and strength) with a chair or stool built to accommodate the weight of a bear. A high-fat diet and a sedentary life can kill as effectively as drugs, alcoholism, and reckless sex. Ask me about my late 500-pound cousin who died at age 46.

[Kinser79]

It isn't just you Odin. I experienced much the same thing around 2000. Of course joining the military might have had something to do with that.

[beechnut79]

(05-15-2016, 06:13 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(05-15-2016, 01:05 PM)Odin Wrote: As an early-wave Millie who just turned 30 I am feeling like I close to completely losing my ability to relate to today's teens, I can definitely "feel" on a visceral level that the cusp of a new generation is approaching adulthood.

We Millennials are not the "kids", anymore.

Getting detached from the youth culture? I thought that that was a Boomer phenomenon around 1980 when the pop culture went from being made for Boomers to being made for Generation X. So that is nothing new.

So I learned something. Maybe I'm not so old, after all.

Today I definitely feel detached from the youth culture, which today is entirely different from Generation X. Today it is the Smartphone Culture, and those younger than 40 especially would be like fish out of water without their technology. I don't feel that today's society could ever cope with a 1930s style Great Depression. Do any of you?

[beechnut79]

(05-16-2016, 09:15 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The rock stars, once expressions of youthful vitality, are themselves getting old.

Retrieved from the old Obituaries forum on the T4T site,

(Yes, this is my material):

Those who can perform or create are as hooked on what they do as an addict is on heroin. As with heroin, performance and creation become the cornerstone of life. The obvious difference is that heroin destroys. Creation and performance are possible means of achieving what Abraham Maslow calls self-actualization. (To be sure, artists who live miserable lives because they are miserable people, like Richard Wagner and Vincent Van Gogh, never achieve self-actualization). It may be a different activity, but last week I saw a performance of Il Trovatore on PBS. I had never seen such happy people in my life even if the opera is a tragedy.

Performing in the St. Joseph County Fair is still performing, even if it is in St. Joseph County, Michigan. It offers the same endorphins. Finding cheering crowds who travel from tens of miles away gives much the same effect as performing in Madison Square Garden.

As we all know, the early rock stars are genuinely old. But if they have avoided the STDs, alcoholism, and drug overdoses that have killed many, they can perform until their health gives out. Stage performance is a healthy activity, whether it is playing rock on an electric guitar or conducting a symphony orchestra. Some of them have followed the pattern of GIs as late-wave Silent and early-wave Boomers, staying fit and active as long as possible. Deaths of David Bowie and Glenn Frye notwithstanding, some of the early-wave rockers could live into their nineties.

So avoid drugs, alcoholism, and reckless sex, and the physical activity is better for one than the sedentary non-activity of some obese checker-cashier whose employer accommodates an ursine weight (but without the ursine agility and strength) with a chair or stool built to accommodate the weight of a bear. A high-fat diet and a sedentary life can kill as effectively as drugs, alcoholism, and reckless sex. Ask me about my late 500-pound cousin who died at age 46.

Speaking of aging rockers, last night I went to a concert featuring two different acts performing nothing but Bob Dylan songs (He turns 75 on Tuesday). Could anybody have predicted that now, in the twilight of his career, he would release a CD filled with 1940s era standards? Not in my wildest dreams could I have predicted that.

[Kinser79]

(05-22-2016, 02:51 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: Today I definitely feel detached from the youth culture, which today is entirely different from Generation X. Today it is the Smartphone Culture, and those younger than 40 especially would be like fish out of water without their technology.

That is only partially true. But then again I kind of insist that my kid learns gardening, hunting and fishing along with the computer programing.

Quote: I don't feel that today's society could ever cope with a 1930s style Great Depression. Do any of you?

A large percentage of the rural population could deal with a Great Depression just fine. It is the urbanized twits that worry me. They'd starve to death in about a week.

[Galen]

(09-22-2016, 07:27 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-22-2016, 07:19 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Had a get together with Boomer friends a few days ago. Were looking at old pictures from the 1980s. Yet another reminder ... today's 67 year old was all of 36 back when I was a brand new grad in the mid 80s. That 67 year old was a just becoming senior employee, mentoring me, the wet behind the ears early 20-something. Meanwhile, the oldest Millies are now that just becoming senior employee.

Arrrrrgggggh!

Tell it to stop!

Well those fortunate enough to have jobs that is. Here in christchurch most are struggling. I mean heck my best mate who was born th same year as me has had her 60 year old mother board with her because rent is too high. They are making off the fact so many have been left homeless after the earthquakes and great recession. Employers are running employees ragged and taking away their rights. They can fire you at the drop of a hat now and get away with it. Meanwhile boomers here talk about days in their youth when jobs were abundant, more rights, and they did not even need a cv. I have a degree, massive debt from student loan to get a job and guess what? No jobs! Heck even with the few out there my degree is not enough. I need experience first. So back to school i go to specialize in something and get help to get that experience because they will just not hire you anymore without prior experience. Boomers say that was not an issue back in their day. Pisses me right off.

The only advantage Generation X has over the Millies is that we knew that we were screwed and no one gave a shit about that.  That gave many Xers time to compensate for the circumstances.  Millies are going to have a really rough time of it, possibly even worse.

[Galen]

(09-23-2016, 12:41 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 12:29 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-22-2016, 07:27 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-22-2016, 07:19 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Had a get together with Boomer friends a few days ago. Were looking at old pictures from the 1980s. Yet another reminder ... today's 67 year old was all of 36 back when I was a brand new grad in the mid 80s. That 67 year old was a just becoming senior employee, mentoring me, the wet behind the ears early 20-something. Meanwhile, the oldest Millies are now that just becoming senior employee.

Arrrrrgggggh!

Tell it to stop!

Well those fortunate enough to have jobs that is. Here in christchurch most are struggling. I mean heck my best mate who was born th same year as me has had her 60 year old mother board with her because rent is too high. They are making off the fact so many have been left homeless after the earthquakes and great recession. Employers are running employees ragged and taking away their rights. They can fire you at the drop of a hat now and get away with it. Meanwhile boomers here talk about days in their youth when jobs were abundant, more rights, and they did not even need a cv. I have a degree, massive debt from student loan to get a job and guess what? No jobs! Heck even with the few out there my degree is not enough. I need experience first. So back to school i go to specialize in something and get help to get that experience because they will just not hire you anymore without prior experience. Boomers say that was not an issue back in their day. Pisses me right off.

The only advantage Generation X has over the Millies is that we knew that we were screwed and no one gave a shit about that.  That gave many Xers time to compensate for the circumstances.  Millies are going to have a really rough time of it, possibly even worse.

Well I think some xers who were not expecting the crash (and here, the earthquakes for ALL generations that were not well off) who had kids especially are suffering. Boomers who recklessly spend what they do not have who thought times would always be great too. Like my own mother. But yeah my generation was lied to. Unprepared, young, naive and so it is near impossible to make a start in life. Too bloody hard to get into the work force, saddled with debt from degrees we were told would take us somewhere. Now we need the experience and how are we to get that if no one will take us on? It is also so expensive to live anywhere these days. Can we afford cars, houses? Nope. Then older folk start on us for staying at home. Smdh.

The Boomers and Silents had decades in the US to deal with the obvious fiscal problems and on the whole chose to do nothing but make it worse.  Things were great for the Silent generation and they tended to be non-entities and so expecting them to take the lead was unreasonable.  Ron Paul was the exception but as you know, very few Boomers or Silents were listening.  The Silent Generation were the least likely people to take a risk and break out of the usual patterns.

[Galen]

(09-23-2016, 01:01 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 12:53 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 12:41 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 12:29 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-22-2016, 07:27 PM)taramarie Wrote: Well those fortunate enough to have jobs that is. Here in christchurch most are struggling. I mean heck my best mate who was born th same year as me has had her 60 year old mother board with her because rent is too high. They are making off the fact so many have been left homeless after the earthquakes and great recession. Employers are running employees ragged and taking away their rights. They can fire you at the drop of a hat now and get away with it. Meanwhile boomers here talk about days in their youth when jobs were abundant, more rights, and they did not even need a cv. I have a degree, massive debt from student loan to get a job and guess what? No jobs! Heck even with the few out there my degree is not enough. I need experience first. So back to school i go to specialize in something and get help to get that experience because they will just not hire you anymore without prior experience. Boomers say that was not an issue back in their day. Pisses me right off.

The only advantage Generation X has over the Millies is that we knew that we were screwed and no one gave a shit about that.  That gave many Xers time to compensate for the circumstances.  Millies are going to have a really rough time of it, possibly even worse.

Well I think some xers who were not expecting the crash (and here, the earthquakes for ALL generations that were not well off) who had kids especially are suffering. Boomers who recklessly spend what they do not have who thought times would always be great too. Like my own mother. But yeah my generation was lied to. Unprepared, young, naive and so it is near impossible to make a start in life. Too bloody hard to get into the work force, saddled with debt from degrees we were told would take us somewhere. Now we need the experience and how are we to get that if no one will take us on? It is also so expensive to live anywhere these days. Can we afford cars, houses? Nope. Then older folk start on us for staying at home. Smdh.

The Boomers and Silents had decades in the US to deal with the obvious fiscal problems and on the whole chose to do nothing but make it worse.  Things were great for the Silent generation and they tended to be non-entities and so expecting them to take the lead was unreasonable.  Ron Paul was the exception but as you know, very few Boomers or Silents were listening.  The Silent Generation were the least likely people to take a risk and break out of the usual patterns.

For greed I assume?

Yes, but the Boomers and Silent Generation have been assuming that what was would always be.  That you could tax, borrow and spend forever with no bad consequences.  They made the same assumptions in their personal lives as well and now the chickens appear to be coming home to roost.

The GIs are pretty much gone and the Silent Generation is going so they probably won't have to worry too much about it.  Most of the Boomers literally can not face the reality of the situation.  Consider the reactions I get when I point out that government must reduce their spending on both defense and entitlements.  Most of the Boomers literally can not accept that they to must suffer the consequences of their decisions.  They expect Generation X and the Millies keep all of the unrealistic promises.  You already know that this is not possible.  The last eight years of money printing are a last futile attempt to delay the inevitable which will create an even bigger crisis.

[Galen]

(09-23-2016, 02:02 AM)taramarie Wrote: That makes sense. I just have to look to my mother to see that mistake. The thought that you can spend and be reckless with no ill consequence. Her error has trapped us both with her debt for if i leave, she starves. Not that I could anyway with prices being so high. I am grateful I have learned from seeing my elders mistakes at a young age however. I really needed that lesson so not to repeat it. The majority of boomers were not blessed with that lesson on a massive scale. Nothing lasts forever. Things can change in an instant. Earthquakes, great recession, death, city in ruin, suburbs in ruin, no food, no water, no power, no house, no job but a whole lot of debt (my mothers) that needs paying. What a lesson all in one go but boy i wizened up fast.

Eric the Obtuse is the archetype of unwilling to accept reality.  There is the astrology and new age thing that he has been on since the sixties that never has worked.  You have been probably reading his other stuff where he believes that Clinton is going to be president.  Scott Adams disagrees with this assessment and I think he is right.  Make sure to look at the video and tell me what you think, particularly about the mood.

Millies may have their issues but like the GIs they tend to adapt to changed circumstances.  This will serve them well in the coming years.

[Galen]

(09-23-2016, 02:36 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 02:20 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 02:02 AM)taramarie Wrote: That makes sense. I just have to look to my mother to see that mistake. The thought that you can spend and be reckless with no ill consequence. Her error has trapped us both with her debt for if i leave, she starves. Not that I could anyway with prices being so high. I am grateful I have learned from seeing my elders mistakes at a young age however. I really needed that lesson so not to repeat it. The majority of boomers were not blessed with that lesson on a massive scale. Nothing lasts forever. Things can change in an instant. Earthquakes, great recession, death, city in ruin, suburbs in ruin, no food, no water, no power, no house, no job but a whole lot of debt (my mothers) that needs paying. What a lesson all in one go but boy i wizened up fast.

Eric the Obtuse is the archetype of unwilling to accept reality.  There is the astrology and new age thing that he has been on since the sixties that never has worked.  You have been probably reading his other stuff where he believes that Clinton is going to be president.  Scott Adams disagrees with this assessment and I think he is right.  Make sure to look at the video and tell me what you think, particularly about the mood.

Millies may have their issues but like the GIs they tend to adapt to changed circumstances.  This will serve them well in the coming years.

True about Eric. It amazes me really and I wonder what made him that way. Yes he is predicting Clinton will win. I have my doubts of course. I refrain from being certain of results before they are in but i sense she will not win for some reason. But do not take that too seriously. People want something different and the time is right for something new and the time is right for someone like Trump or Bernie who are something indeed very new who both claim to have the answer. We know what to expect from a Clinton. So that is why I sense she has a hard road ahead if she expects to win. But I would rather sit and wait for the results of the election as i am no prophet and I do not have the ego to claim to know the answer well in advance neither.


Well being grounded in reality is vital to surviving and trying to thrive in a terrible environment. It is better together I have found. Being part of a millie collective to pick up the pieces of a ruined city keeps up spirits and likewise with collective businesses we are setting up to help each other in the business world. Here, we have the chance to rebuild a whole city and rebuild a nice, helpful community in civic groups and the business world. Both which I am part of with the SVA and the Film Cooperative.

I will watch your video.

Its a short video fortunately and it is a link from the Scott Adams blog which is also short.  I tend to agree with him but you are right there are no guarantees.

I don't know where the attitude comes from but I do know it is endemic among the Boomers.  Silents tended believe that if you just obeyed the rules, thinking was optional, and everything would be fine.

Xers tend to work in much smaller groups.  It goes with the paranoia and trust issues.

[Galen]

(09-23-2016, 02:57 AM)taramarie Wrote: I take it the video you wanted me to watch was "Clinton: ‘Why aren’t I 50 points ahead?’ of Trump?"

My initial reaction was her tone. I am highly sensory given I am an ISFJ so that shrill, angry, point finger at the other tone is a real turn off for me. She sounds like my mother.

Lets remember I am a foreigner so I am not keeping on top of all of the details of the election but firstly if she wants to be elected she needs to change tactic real fast as millennials will have a huge impact on who is elected in November. That tactic is no longer effective for a new generation that has voting power. Many American millies I have spoken to have commented on this also so I am not just talking out my ass here. I am not American but her voice and attitude makes my ears bleed. Bernie was wonderfully rational in tone and manners. He addressed issues and he knew of the plight millies are dealing with on a daily basis which was nice to hear as do you hear of other candidates addressing this other than Clinton trying to morph into the new Bernie? She needs to focus on what she wants to address and how it is to be implemented and quit ripping into the other and likewise for other parties I should add too. 

I do not know of the case of this "right to work" so I have no comment on it. I only hear of bits and pieces on what is going on over there so I have no comment on that. 

Donald Trump stiffing contractors and small businesses.....well I would not be surprised in that regard. He tends to rip off a lot of people, e.g. Trump University as one example so I hear. Trump University: It’s Worse Than You Think

You basically got it right.  I wouldn't expect you to know all of the policy details but they were unimportant to the matter at hand since, as Scott Adams pointed out, no one is actually paying attention.  In my opinion there was also an undercurrent of disbelief and a refusal to accept the possibility that perhaps the electorate really doesn't like or trust her as she thinks they should.  I have seen a similar disconnect from reality in most of the Boomers I have encountered through the years and I don't think its going to change at this late date.  Fortunately my mother never got quite that bad and she is same age as Clinton.

Trump University is not unique and not even the worst offender.  Everybody thought the real estate bubble would last forever and was trying to cash in.  (Hint: This is one of the most important indicators that you have a bubble.)  Truth is, no one would give a shit if Trump wasn't running for president.  I am ambivalent about Trump but Clinton is supported by too many neocons, like Paul Wolfowitz who was in the Bush II administration, who want to keep poking Russia with a stick.  The known quantity of Clinton almost certainly means more war and so its time to take a chance with Trump and possibly avoiding war with Russia.

The usual situation with Generation X, no good choices just less bad ones.

As for the contractors, I haven't seen anything on that so I have no comment.

[Galen]

(09-23-2016, 04:00 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 03:38 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 02:57 AM)taramarie Wrote: I take it the video you wanted me to watch was "Clinton: ‘Why aren’t I 50 points ahead?’ of Trump?"

My initial reaction was her tone. I am highly sensory given I am an ISFJ so that shrill, angry, point finger at the other tone is a real turn off for me. She sounds like my mother.

Lets remember I am a foreigner so I am not keeping on top of all of the details of the election but firstly if she wants to be elected she needs to change tactic real fast as millennials will have a huge impact on who is elected in November. That tactic is no longer effective for a new generation that has voting power. Many American millies I have spoken to have commented on this also so I am not just talking out my ass here. I am not American but her voice and attitude makes my ears bleed. Bernie was wonderfully rational in tone and manners. He addressed issues and he knew of the plight millies are dealing with on a daily basis which was nice to hear as do you hear of other candidates addressing this other than Clinton trying to morph into the new Bernie? She needs to focus on what she wants to address and how it is to be implemented and quit ripping into the other and likewise for other parties I should add too. 

I do not know of the case of this "right to work" so I have no comment on it. I only hear of bits and pieces on what is going on over there so I have no comment on that. 

Donald Trump stiffing contractors and small businesses.....well I would not be surprised in that regard. He tends to rip off a lot of people, e.g. Trump University as one example so I hear. Trump University: It’s Worse Than You Think

You basically got it right.  I wouldn't expect you to know all of the policy details but they were unimportant to the matter at hand since, as Scott Adams pointed out, no one is actually paying attention.  In my opinion there was also an undercurrent of disbelief and a refusal to accept the possibility that perhaps the electorate really doesn't like or trust her as she thinks they should.  I have seen a similar disconnect from reality in most of the Boomers I have encountered through the years and I don't think its going to change at this late date.  Fortunately my mother never got quite that bad and she is same age as Clinton.

Trump University is not unique and not even the worst offender.  Everybody thought the real estate bubble would last forever and was trying to cash in.  (Hint: This is one of the most important indicators that you have a bubble.)  Truth is, no one would give a shit if Trump wasn't running for president.  I am ambivalent about Trump but Clinton is supported by too many neocons, like Paul Wolfowitz who was in the Bush II administration, who want to keep poking Russia with a stick.  The known quantity of Clinton almost certainly means more war and so its time to take a chance with Trump and possibly avoiding war with Russia.

The usual situation with Generation X, no good choices just less bad ones.

As for the contractors, I haven't seen anything on that so I have no comment.

They should be paying attention. If they aren't that is a terrifying thought. All elections and current affairs should be studied and well known for what is promised and what is not delivered. These people need to be brought back down to earth and remember they are supposed to be a voice for the people. They keep you guys arguing for distraction. Divide and conquer. Media feeds it. They feed it. Business funds it.

Yes she is disconnected from the people and especially my generation as i pointed out. Like hell would I vote for either candidate let alone her. I have heard that Gary Johnson is similar to our Winston Peters. So if I were American I would consider him.

Yes I am sure it is not the worst offense but for someone running to be president it worries me. Would he view his presidency as another way for him to cash in also? It is a possibility. But then again, is that not what all politicians are interested in anyway with their hands in the cookie jar that is big corporations?

Yes, Clinton absolutely means more war. I am unaware of the story of Paul Wolfowitz and Russia. We do not hear a lot of the inside stories of American politics over here.

That is why the Scott Adams blog is so important since it highlights how people actually make decisions.  The arguing in American politics is the product of a puritanical streak that runs through our history and the fact that too much of our society is centralized in DC.  The more power the Feds have then the more various interests try to use it to get special privileges at the expense of everyone else.  No one can be trusted with the Ring.

Johnson is probably the least objectionable of the four but he has about zero chance of winning.  The League of Women voters used to run the debates but after Perot the major parties run it now.  They do everything they can to keep any other candidates out of them, election laws tend to be skewed in the same way.

Paul Wolfowitz is one the people who helped to give us the current mess in the middle east.  Clinton for reasons I can't figure out wants to relive the Cold War.

[Galen]

(09-23-2016, 04:28 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 04:18 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 04:00 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 03:38 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 02:57 AM)taramarie Wrote: I take it the video you wanted me to watch was "Clinton: ‘Why aren’t I 50 points ahead?’ of Trump?"

My initial reaction was her tone. I am highly sensory given I am an ISFJ so that shrill, angry, point finger at the other tone is a real turn off for me. She sounds like my mother.

Lets remember I am a foreigner so I am not keeping on top of all of the details of the election but firstly if she wants to be elected she needs to change tactic real fast as millennials will have a huge impact on who is elected in November. That tactic is no longer effective for a new generation that has voting power. Many American millies I have spoken to have commented on this also so I am not just talking out my ass here. I am not American but her voice and attitude makes my ears bleed. Bernie was wonderfully rational in tone and manners. He addressed issues and he knew of the plight millies are dealing with on a daily basis which was nice to hear as do you hear of other candidates addressing this other than Clinton trying to morph into the new Bernie? She needs to focus on what she wants to address and how it is to be implemented and quit ripping into the other and likewise for other parties I should add too. 

I do not know of the case of this "right to work" so I have no comment on it. I only hear of bits and pieces on what is going on over there so I have no comment on that. 

Donald Trump stiffing contractors and small businesses.....well I would not be surprised in that regard. He tends to rip off a lot of people, e.g. Trump University as one example so I hear. Trump University: It’s Worse Than You Think

You basically got it right.  I wouldn't expect you to know all of the policy details but they were unimportant to the matter at hand since, as Scott Adams pointed out, no one is actually paying attention.  In my opinion there was also an undercurrent of disbelief and a refusal to accept the possibility that perhaps the electorate really doesn't like or trust her as she thinks they should.  I have seen a similar disconnect from reality in most of the Boomers I have encountered through the years and I don't think its going to change at this late date.  Fortunately my mother never got quite that bad and she is same age as Clinton.

Trump University is not unique and not even the worst offender.  Everybody thought the real estate bubble would last forever and was trying to cash in.  (Hint: This is one of the most important indicators that you have a bubble.)  Truth is, no one would give a shit if Trump wasn't running for president.  I am ambivalent about Trump but Clinton is supported by too many neocons, like Paul Wolfowitz who was in the Bush II administration, who want to keep poking Russia with a stick.  The known quantity of Clinton almost certainly means more war and so its time to take a chance with Trump and possibly avoiding war with Russia.

The usual situation with Generation X, no good choices just less bad ones.

As for the contractors, I haven't seen anything on that so I have no comment.

They should be paying attention. If they aren't that is a terrifying thought. All elections and current affairs should be studied and well known for what is promised and what is not delivered. These people need to be brought back down to earth and remember they are supposed to be a voice for the people. They keep you guys arguing for distraction. Divide and conquer. Media feeds it. They feed it. Business funds it.

Yes she is disconnected from the people and especially my generation as i pointed out. Like hell would I vote for either candidate let alone her. I have heard that Gary Johnson is similar to our Winston Peters. So if I were American I would consider him.

Yes I am sure it is not the worst offense but for someone running to be president it worries me. Would he view his presidency as another way for him to cash in also? It is a possibility. But then again, is that not what all politicians are interested in anyway with their hands in the cookie jar that is big corporations?

Yes, Clinton absolutely means more war. I am unaware of the story of Paul Wolfowitz and Russia. We do not hear a lot of the inside stories of American politics over here.

That is why the Scott Adams blog is so important since it highlights how people actually make decisions.  The arguing in American politics is the product of a puritanical streak that runs through our history and the fact that too much of our society is centralized in DC.  The more power the Feds have then the more various interests try to use it to get special privileges at the expense of everyone else.  No one can be trusted with the Ring.

Johnson is probably the least objectionable of the four but he has about zero chance of winning.  The League of Women voters used to run the debates but after Perot the major parties run it now.  They do everything they can to keep any other candidates out of them, election laws tend to be skewed in the same way.

Paul Wolfowitz is one the people who helped to give us the current mess in the middle east.  Clinton for reasons I can't figure out wants to relive the Cold War.

Hmm interesting. I will look him up.

There also some data on Clinton's warlike tendencies.  Like I said, no good choices.

[Warren Dew]

(09-23-2016, 02:47 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 02:36 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 02:20 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-23-2016, 02:02 AM)taramarie Wrote: That makes sense. I just have to look to my mother to see that mistake. The thought that you can spend and be reckless with no ill consequence. Her error has trapped us both with her debt for if i leave, she starves. Not that I could anyway with prices being so high. I am grateful I have learned from seeing my elders mistakes at a young age however. I really needed that lesson so not to repeat it. The majority of boomers were not blessed with that lesson on a massive scale. Nothing lasts forever. Things can change in an instant. Earthquakes, great recession, death, city in ruin, suburbs in ruin, no food, no water, no power, no house, no job but a whole lot of debt (my mothers) that needs paying. What a lesson all in one go but boy i wizened up fast.

Eric the Obtuse is the archetype of unwilling to accept reality.  There is the astrology and new age thing that he has been on since the sixties that never has worked.  You have been probably reading his other stuff where he believes that Clinton is going to be president.  Scott Adams disagrees with this assessment and I think he is right.  Make sure to look at the video and tell me what you think, particularly about the mood.

Millies may have their issues but like the GIs they tend to adapt to changed circumstances.  This will serve them well in the coming years.

True about Eric. It amazes me really and I wonder what made him that way. Yes he is predicting Clinton will win. I have my doubts of course. I refrain from being certain of results before they are in but i sense she will not win for some reason. But do not take that too seriously. People want something different and the time is right for something new and the time is right for someone like Trump or Bernie who are something indeed very new who both claim to have the answer. We know what to expect from a Clinton. So that is why I sense she has a hard road ahead if she expects to win. But I would rather sit and wait for the results of the election as i am no prophet and I do not have the ego to claim to know the answer well in advance neither.

Well being grounded in reality is vital to surviving and trying to thrive in a terrible environment. It is better together I have found. Being part of a millie collective to pick up the pieces of a ruined city keeps up spirits and likewise with collective businesses we are setting up to help each other in the business world. Here, we have the chance to rebuild a whole city and rebuild a nice, helpful community in civic groups and the business world. Both which I am part of with the SVA and the Film Cooperative.

I will watch your video.

Its a short video fortunately and it is a link from the Scott Adams blog which is also short.  I tend to agree with him but you are right there are no guarantees.

I don't know where the attitude comes from but I do know it is endemic among the Boomers.]

I know where it comes from.  Us boomers are used to shaping reality, not having to live with realities.

Blue boomers in particular are used to shaping reality by yelling at it and about it.  If enough people just say something, it will become true.

And let's face it:  blue boomers have personal experience during the Consciousness Revolution about the worst that can happen economically.  The worst that can happen with more taxes and more spending and more of the economy under control of the government is a Soviet style centrally controlled economy.  Given that they - by which I mean Eric but also Clinton - were siding against the U.S. military industrial complex and essentially in favor of the Soviets in the culture wars, that doesn't sound so bad to them.

[Galen]

(09-25-2016, 02:14 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I know where it comes from.  Us boomers are used to shaping reality, not having to live with realities.

Blue boomers in particular are used to shaping reality by yelling at it and about it.  If enough people just say something, it will become true.

And let's face it:  blue boomers have personal experience during the Consciousness Revolution about the worst that can happen economically.  The worst that can happen with more taxes and more spending and more of the economy under control of the government is a Soviet style centrally controlled economy.  Given that they - by which I mean Eric but also Clinton - were siding against the U.S. military industrial complex and essentially in favor of the Soviets in the culture wars, that doesn't sound so bad to them.

Welcome to my world. I thought the Lost had it bad in old age but it looks the Boomers are in for some serious karma.  Should be fun to watch.

As for economic failure the worst seems to be North Korea, Cuba and, my personal favorite, Venezuela.  Eric the Obtuse and his ilk are too fucking stupid to figure out that the MIC is a product of statism and big government.   As for Clinton, his only concern was getting laid and so he went where the chicks were.

[Galen]

(09-26-2016, 03:06 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(09-26-2016, 02:25 AM)Galen Wrote:

(09-25-2016, 02:14 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I know where it comes from.  Us boomers are used to shaping reality, not having to live with realities.

Blue boomers in particular are used to shaping reality by yelling at it and about it.  If enough people just say something, it will become true.

And let's face it:  blue boomers have personal experience during the Consciousness Revolution about the worst that can happen economically.  The worst that can happen with more taxes and more spending and more of the economy under control of the government is a Soviet style centrally controlled economy.  Given that they - by which I mean Eric but also Clinton - were siding against the U.S. military industrial complex and essentially in favor of the Soviets in the culture wars, that doesn't sound so bad to them.

Welcome to my world. I thought the Lost had it bad in old age but it looks the Boomers are in for some serious karma.  Should be fun to watch.

As for economic failure the worst seems to be North Korea, Cuba and, my personal favorite, Venezuela.  Eric the Obtuse and his ilk are too fucking stupid to figure out that the MIC is a product of statism and big government.   As for Clinton, his only concern was getting laid and so he went where the chicks were.

Which is why I have little to no hope of seeing America sort itself out under Dionysian rule. Idealism blinds. Only when both sides can talk to each other and quit becoming more and more extremist will conversation and progress begin. If the same old talking point keep being rolled round over and over there will come a boiling point and we are already seeing it. I do not see it being sorted out. I see destruction. An internal war and I hope it will not turn into another civil war. They were Dionysian also. I am unfamiliar with the aftermath of the civil war so I do not know how things were patched up after it. But it has more in common with the America of today than the great power era. To a certain degree. Two sides at war unwilling to back down. Wanting their ideal to win out over the other and destroying society along with it. Again they are in an internal war and once again, Dionysian driven. Run by feelings first. I am curious how it will end. But lets just say I will not be surprised at all that it will not be settled till the next prophets come along who will be Appolonian like my mother and their children born after their consciousness revolution; the next Apollonian civics (closer to GI's in mindset) will be raised to believe life should be a certain way culturally and enforce it in the corporate world and law. The current generations are too divided and polarized and blinded by bias and prejudice to be of any use to fix issues. I am glad we do not have this issue here. Heck our media does not even lean left or right wing. They just merely tell the news. Then again politics here focuses on politics. Not heavily focused on a cultural battle. I wonder if it was ever like that in America.

The War Between the States was more about tariffs and New England securing a captive customer base and source of resources.  At the time the southern states were paying 85% of the Federal Governments expenses.  The idealists tend to get used under such scenarios and never seem to figure it out.  I suggest you read The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked by Thomas DiLorenzo to understand what was going on.  The abolitionist cause was used by some very self-centered people to enrich themselves and Lincoln was one of them.

[Odin]

(09-26-2016, 03:32 AM)taramarie Wrote: I am well aware of the real cause for the war. But they used idealism (free black slaves) to justify the war and use people for what they really wanted. Not unlike religious wars.

The Civil War WAS about slavery, Tara, that is accepted by every legitimate historian. Galen is peddling extremist far-right wacko propaganda. The Civil War started because people in the southern states believed that they had a right to own other human beings.