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(01-31-2017, 05:06 PM)Odin Wrote: (01-30-2017, 02:51 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Nearly 20 years ago, in the throes of Clinton Derangement Syndrome, I would drive a few blocks from the office with my lunch, and park on a quiet street at the edge of the San Francisco Bay salt marshes. I would tune my radio to 560 KSFO and listen to Michael Savage. It must have been around 1998 that I first heard his slogan: "Borders, Language, Culture."
It seemed innocent enough. Obviously, maintaining border control is a good thing. We need customs and immigration officers to maintain orderly processing in of people coming into the country. Language is important - competence in the lingua franca is obviously a key to success. A shared culture helps us to norm on commonly understood and agreed principles of ethics, law and ways of doing business. It's all good.
Unfortunately, demagogues can take these concepts out of context, marry them with resentments held by various identity groups, spin them for political gain, or even, use them to fuel the fires of chaos.
From the seemingly innocent "Borders, Language and Culture" of the late 20th Century we have moved to "your papers please" and God forbid you don't have the correct type of name or national origin.
This is going to go badly. There are now VIPs and high status people caught up in the travel ban, some of them well regarded Resident Aliens. It's one thing to catch Joe Wetback doing a crime and deporting him, it's quite another to tell some advance degreed corporate senior management person they are not allowed to hop on the shuttle to get home to his wife and kids. It is DEPLORABLE.
And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.
I agree that Bannon is whispering, but Trump is less manipuable than suggestable. Like Bannon, he likes the narrative, but, in Trump's case, it's all about the impresson he's making. He's a drama queen. Get him a tiara.
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(01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: (01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote: (01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.
Is he an actual Neo-Nazi? Do you have a citation on that one?
I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.
I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"? "fade out"? It was not something he was going on about. He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.
So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.
I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you. 
* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things. 
The stuff Bannon spouts is less telling than what he does. He's eyeball deep in Citizens United and a founding member of the Tea Party. I see him more as a quasi-Randian ... out to save the world for all the really great capitalists.
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(02-03-2017, 10:25 AM)David Horn Wrote: (01-31-2017, 06:04 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: (01-31-2017, 05:38 PM)Odin Wrote: (01-31-2017, 05:15 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Quote:And now with Steve Bannon we have an actual Neo-Nazi whispering into the ear of an easily manipulated president. There is no way this cannot end badly.
Is he an actual Neo-Nazi? Do you have a citation on that one?
I can't find the source at the moment (I should have saved the link when it was posted all over Reddit's politics board last weekend, damn it!) but he wants to turn the US into an enthno-nationalist white Christian theocracy and wage a holy war against the Muslim world. He believes all the usual anti-diversity and anti-multiculturalism white nationalist talking points.
I think I remember that talk, if it's the one I was thinking about, and while he had the Christian stuff, he did specifically disavow the racial angle, hoping it would, and I don't quite remember the phrase he used, "wash out"? "fade out"? It was not something he was going on about. He also wanted to rerun the whole New Deal thing, "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" was I think the rough phrase used (different interview), too.
So, an ideological guy, not a progressive, but not really a Neo-Nazi, unless we're just using "Neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose slur.
I mean granted, you're a progressive, so anything not explicitly antiwhite* probably sounds like Hitler to you.
* I know, I know, you people "mean" equality, but y'all sure "say" some pretty kooky things.
The stuff Bannon spouts is less telling than what he does. He's eyeball deep in Citizens United and a founding member of the Tea Party. I see him more as a quasi-Randian ... out to save the world for all the really great capitalists.
Is your "seeing" of him based on something other than your own preconceptions? This isn't even a rhetorical question, I am asking what you are basing this on.
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(02-03-2017, 10:33 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: (02-03-2017, 10:25 AM)David Horn Wrote: The stuff Bannon spouts is less telling than what he does. He's eyeball deep in Citizens United and a founding member of the Tea Party. I see him more as a quasi-Randian ... out to save the world for all the really great capitalists.
Is your "seeing" of him based on something other than your own preconceptions? This isn't even a rhetorical question, I am asking what you are basing this on.
His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more student parts. All his film work was funded that way, with his premier treatise (Generation Zero) being a Citizen's United Production. He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them. I see that as forming alliances of covenience.
He sayshe wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war. That reads $$$$$ to me
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Quote:His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more student parts.
The "more student parts" of "the business community"? Could I get that in English, please?
Quote:He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them.
Equivocation. The phrase "alt-right" had/has more than one meaning, particularly at the time he said it.
Quote:He sayshe wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war. That reads $$$$$ to me
False dichotomy. Either he wants a race war or he's only interested in money? Really? Those are the only two possible motivations?
Also, did you type this last post with mittens on or something?
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(02-03-2017, 04:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Quote:His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more strident parts.
The "more student parts" of "the business community"? Could I get that in English, please?
Quote:He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them.
Equivocation. The phrase "alt-right" had/has more than one meaning, particularly at the time he said it.
Quote:He said he wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war. That reads $$$$$ to me
False dichotomy. Either he wants a race war or he's only interested in money? Really? Those are the only two possible motivations?
Also, did you type this last post with mittens on or something?
Posting on a tablet with aggressive spell check leads to the mess above. I've tried to fix it. Let's see how it arrives on the forum.
Now your comments:
- If you want an "army" of blindly-dedicated soldiers, why not select from what's already available? What's available is mostly on the fringe. I have no doubt that Bannon is a nationalist -- perhaps a hyper-nationalist. I just don't see the evidence that he's directly aligned with the neo-Nazis or race-crusaders. On the other hand, they're already up for the fight. I agree I'm reading between the lines a bit.
- So let's look at Bannon. He took a turn through Goldman Sachs, and his only complaint was greed. That reads right out of Atlas Shrugged. His goal reads like the end of the book. Draw your own conclusions.
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(02-04-2017, 08:14 AM)David Horn Wrote: (02-03-2017, 04:08 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Quote:His alliances have all been inside the business community, but only the more strident parts.
The "more student parts" of "the business community"? Could I get that in English, please?
Quote:He makes alliances with all the alt-right elements, but he claims limited interest in them.
Equivocation. The phrase "alt-right" had/has more than one meaning, particularly at the time he said it.
Quote:He said he wanted to trigger a final confligration that will destroy the current system, but he shows no interest in a race war. That reads $$$$$ to me
False dichotomy. Either he wants a race war or he's only interested in money? Really? Those are the only two possible motivations?
Also, did you type this last post with mittens on or something?
Posting on a tablet with aggressive spell check leads to the mess above. I've tried to fix it. Let's see how it arrives on the forum.
Now your comments:
- If you want an "army" of blindly-dedicated soldiers, why not select from what's already available? What's available is mostly on the fringe. I have no doubt that Bannon is a nationalist -- perhaps a hyper-nationalist. I just don't see the evidence that he's directly aligned with the neo-Nazis or race-crusaders. On the other hand, they're already up for the fight. I agree I'm reading between the lines a bit.
- So let's look at Bannon. He took a turn through Goldman Sachs, and his only complaint was greed. That reads right out of Atlas Shrugged. His goal reads like the end of the book. Draw your own conclusions.
I think we've gone a little bit further than reading between the lines. You appear to have read a whole essay into the margins of a couple of sentences.
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(05-23-2017, 03:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: This is classic Alt Right. Facts, who needs them? Facts are a lib conspiracy, I heard it on Fox News:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/23/media/fo...ich-story/
'Fox News on Tuesday removed from its site an inaccurate story that peddled a conspiracy theory about the murder of Democratic National Committee Staffer Seth Rich. The story had remained online for almost a week after CNN pointed out basic problems with its assertions.'
It's too late, easily manipulated fools like Galen have already been taken in by this blatant propaganda, nothing, not even pleas from Rich's own family, is going to stop it.
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Former CIA Director Brennan: “With every last ounce of devotion to this country, resist”
Quote:HECK: I now pose it to you, sir. Not for my sake, but for America’s sake. As someone who has devoted your entire life to public service, in your own words, please tell my constituents, my neighbors, why they should care. Not just here in Washington, D.C., but in Washington state, and Texas, and Connecticut and points in between. Why should they care? Why do you care, sir?
BRENNAN: Because for the last 241 years, this nation and its citizens have cherished the freedom and liberty that this country was founded upon. Many, many Americans — brave Americans over the years — have lost their lives to be able to protect that freedom and liberty. They’ve lost their lives also to protect the freedom and liberties of other countries and other peoples around the world. Our ability to choose our elected leaders as we see fit is, I believe, an inalienable right that we must protect with all of our resources and all of our authority and power. And the fact that the Russians tried to influence that election so that the will of the American people was not going to be realized by that election, I find outrageous and something that we need to, with every last ounce of devotion to this country, resist. And to try to act to prevent further instances of that. And so, therefore, I believe that this is something that’s critically important to every American. Certainly it’s very important to me, for my children and grandchildren, to make sure that never again will a foreign country try to influence and interfere in the foundation stone of this country, which is electing our democratic leaders.
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(05-23-2017, 03:52 PM)Odin Wrote: (05-23-2017, 03:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: This is classic Alt Right. Facts, who needs them? Facts are a lib conspiracy, I heard it on Fox News:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/23/media/fo...ich-story/
'Fox News on Tuesday removed from its site an inaccurate story that peddled a conspiracy theory about the murder of Democratic National Committee Staffer Seth Rich. The story had remained online for almost a week after CNN pointed out basic problems with its assertions.'
It's too late, easily manipulated fools like Galen have already been taken in by this blatant propaganda, nothing, not even pleas from Rich's own family, is going to stop it.
I have said repeatedly that I do not know what is going on but I am seeing people show interest in this case who really shouldn't. Unless they knew this guy there is no reason that Assange or Kim Dotcom should show any interest in a botched robbery. Why would a crisis management public relations flack from the DNC be representing the family?
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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Kim Dotcom is a dipshit looking for attention, and you are still parroting Trumper propaganda, I see. 
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Boy, he looks a lot like Alex Jones. Is he just as crazy?
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(05-24-2017, 03:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Boy, he looks a lot like Alex Jones. Is he just as crazy?
He's a techie who made his money through hosting illegal file-sharing and hates the US because of criminal charges on his ass.
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(05-24-2017, 06:41 AM)Odin Wrote: Kim Dotcom is a dipshit looking for attention, and you are still parroting Trumper propaganda, I see.
Actually it is far more likely that he wants to do something about his current legal problems with the US government. It probably might help him if the current administration felt beholden to Kim Dotcom. This would not be a viable strategy unless he had something useful to give the current administration.
That still doesn't cover the reward Assange is offering. Unless he was a source I can't see him being concerned with any random robbery.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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Assange is a tool trying to distract from the fact that the source of the DNC leaks was "Fancy Bear", the Russian hacker linked to Russian intellegence services.
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