The Maelstrom of Violence

[Kinser79]

(08-23-2017, 12:25 PM)noway2 Wrote:

Quote:You're full of crap. Many Xers still adore Reagan.

That's why he is commonly, and not so affectionately, referred to as Saint Ray Gun?

I still remember the old joke, Q: "Why does Nancy Reagan sleep on top?" A: "Because Ronnie can only fuck up".

Noway, it is is Alphabet Soup.  He sincerely believes that Trump is both an agent of Russia and is going to start a nuclear war with Russia.  Never mind the fact that this is completely self-contradictory.

As for the appeal of Raegan, I would say that he is still well liked, even by Xers.  Mostly I think this is because the last three Presidents have been unmitigated disasters.

[Kinser79]

(08-23-2017, 10:39 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-21-2017, 01:35 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(08-21-2017, 10:26 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-20-2017, 01:43 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would argue that abolition of the electoral college would make our elections less democratic than more democratic.  HRC may or may not have won the popular vote, but that doesn't matter, we have never elected the president on who wins the most votes, but who wins the most states.

The electoral college was created when we were "these united states", thinking that the states would continue to be quasi-independent.  It was also intended to prevent a tyranny of the majority.  Now, we are enjoying a tyranny of the minority -- certainly much worse.  

When something is rotten, it needs to replaced.  The electoral college certainly qualifies.

So what you're saying is you want the President selected by New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles and the other three or four major cities while the rest of the country is ignored.  Got it.

For a long time, the cities have paid most of the bills and set virtually none of the policies.  Do you find that this is better?  FWIW, I might be amenable to a less skewed system.  Reduce the number of electors to 438 by excising the 100 electors assigned to the Senate.  Let DC keep its three, since they don't actually get the Senators where they really count: in the Senate.  That's better but still not all that good.

That really wouldn't eliminate the problem your complaining of.  One could still lose the "popular vote" and win the electorial vote by various combinations of states.  The bulk of the electors are selected.

In all honesty, if the goal is to make the electorial college more representative, every state should split up its electors by 2 at large, and 1 per district.  Of course this means for small population states (Alaska and Wyoming for example) would really have 3 at large electors.

[Kinser79]

(08-23-2017, 10:44 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-21-2017, 01:45 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(08-21-2017, 10:20 AM)David Horn Wrote: First, you design a better replacement, then you tear down the old system.  So far, no one has taken any steps in that direction.

Okay but you would hate it.

Ideally we'd have a legislative system similar to current, but with Senators seclected by the State Governments as their role is to represent the needs and desires of the states rather than the population of those states.  The population already has representaves....it's called the House.  We would also impose a hard rule of one rep per million of population with a minimum of one rep per state.

I would leave the supreme court alone.  Amazingly that part of the government isn't all that broken.

The presidency would be diminished in power in favor of the legislature.

The vote will be restricted to men over the age of 21 who own a minimum of 50K dollars in real property or have a yearly gross income of 25K dollars.

People who do not have an income, those on public assistance and women should not be permitted to vote.

Citizenship will be restricted to persons born on US soil whose mother is also a US Citizen.  All others are aliens, and could be subject to deportation.

I have a feeling you would hate this system even though it most closely resembles that framed by the framers of the current constitution.

OK, and you're right.  I don't like it.  Here's the rub: no one but you is interested or even cognizant of your system-of-choice.  In short, it's not a recommended replacement.  It's a pipe dream.

You do realize that essentially setting the political order to 1865 is a pipe dream right?

In any case, you asked me to make a proposal, you didn't ask me to make one that I thought could be implemented tomorrow.  There are quite simply too many morons that have to be physically removed for us to implement my preferred system.

[Kinser79]

(08-23-2017, 01:33 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I’m skipping the stripes for some semblance of brevity.

I won't.  I find point by point argument more to my tastes.  But then again I was never much of an essay writer.  While I've never been much for twitter, Gab and Minds are similar.  May be a difference between generations as to what counts for brevity.

Quote:First, Breitbart is on my bookmark list of sites to be visited which advocate worldviews different from mine.

Good.  Salon, HuffPo and the Atlantic are on mine even if those three sites are absolutely ridiculous.  The Atlantic even claimed the recent solar eclipse was racist.  I'm not sure how an astronomical event can have any sort of racial prejudice but apparently, according to the wacko leftists at the Atlantic it is. And the Atlantic used to be a decent magazine too.  Sad.

Quote: This morning’s observation was a trend towards quote quotes.  Brietbart will absolutely accurately quote blue leaning people; press, politicians, pundits, whomever.  This isn’t to say they don’t cherry pick.  This meshes with my notion that good propaganda doesn’t lie, but it is based on a carefully selected solid kernel of truth.  

Indeed. Good propaganda, and lets face it all news and (((news))) is propaganda, must contain at least a kernel of truth.  My experience is that Breitbart and Drudge have more of these kernels than say CNN, MSNBC, or overtly lefty rags.

Quote:The Breitbart agenda, as I read it, isn’t to bring those with urban and rural values together.

What you term urban and rural values cannot be brought together.  One is distinctly nationalist, the other internationalist.  They cannot be brought together much like matter and antimatter cannot be.

 

Quote:The quotes seem selected to generate outrage, to present as absurdly false ideas which seem rational by the extreme blue.

Usually what passes as rational by the extreme blue are both outrageous and absurd.

Quote: I won’t deny that extreme partisans disagree, often emphatically.  It’s the art of generating outrage that seems interesting.  If one buys into this approach, the country’s divide is only emphasized.  It’s just Eric’s demonization habits inverted and put on steroids.

Let us suppose I agree.  I don't but for the sake of argument lets just say you are right.  Do you not realize that this is merely saying that Breitbart is doing the exact same thing as Eric except doing it in the opposite direction and competently?

Quote:The domino effect is a common if dated term tied into the perceived need to contain the old Soviet Union.  You can express the idea differently.  You can find in history other examples of containment.  Neither makes the perceived need to contain the Soviet Union and other autocratic states of the time go away.  Kinser for some reason dances around words and rewrites history, but this does not make the perceived need for containment go away.

Not quite.  The domino theory in and of itself only relates to the containment of communism and Soviet Communism in particular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory

Also it is the "Domino Theory" because we're speaking specifically of a political theory and not the effect of stacking and knocking over dominoes themselves which the effect describes.

Quote:I for one find an echo of Reagan and the unraveling memes alive and well.  All one has to do to see it is watch Republican and especially Trumps campaign promises.

Nonsense.  Using essentially "'Murika Fuck Yeah!" as a campaign propaganda indicates precisely nothing since most successful political campaigns tap into at least some sort of patriotism.  Let us be real here.  Even intellectuals on the right realize that the plebs cannot be expected to vote on the basis of well thought out ideological grounds.  You appeal to them with flag waving.  This was as true in 1924 as it was in 1984 as it was in 2004.

 

Quote:Then too, I find FDR and the New Deal memes alive and well on the left.

I the Dimocrats ran Bernie Sanders I would have agreed.  Instead they selected Hillary and she ran on being an Obama 3rd term which was going to be a losing proposition even if the Dimocrats had selected anyone else.  Hillary was not helped by the fact that she was and was correctly perceived to be part of the over all problem in Washington.

Quote: Neither defining president is entirely in the past.  While some has changed, those two presidents go a long way towards defining their parties.  

The effect of both is waning.  This will be most obvious after Trump finishes his two terms because he will be re-elected unless the Dimocrats give up identity politics and the Alt-Left.  Since I do not expect them to until after 2024 that means the only way Trump isn't a two term president is that he's assassinated (as Alex Jones is convinced of--and yeah I know he's out there but he's more right than wrong, he just seems crazy since he's six months to a year ahead of everyone else) or he decides he isn't going to run.  Given that the man is 71, in good health, doesn't smoke or drink (never mind drugs) and essentially looks like he's 60 I see no reason for him to not run.

Quote:I don’t see S&H as clockwork predetermined.

Good, neither do I.  I liken the generational cycle and the turnings to being similar to a tide chart.  High tides and low tides happen in a regular cycle and can be roughly predicted within a quarter hour.

Quote: I’m unusual in seeing Bush 43’s Iraq war with it’s associated stay the course vs cut and run debate as a massive potential crises.

That is unusual because Gulf War II was essentially Bush using a weapon of mass detraction.  Rather than finishing the job of hunting down Osama Bin Ladin and killing him he got distracted by Saddam Hussein for who knows what reason.

Quote: That war reprises Vietnam, experimented with a new form of colonial imperialism, exposed sole superpower power to be less that what some hoped, and put containment vs active shaping of the world on the table.  It just didn’t become a typical Anglo American crisis as the new ideas failed.  We stuttered and stumbled into the next crisis, the economic collapse, where some not so  new ideas again sputtered.  This left the see saw see sawing.

Yes and no.  

Gulf War II was a Trotskite style military adventure to bring liberal Jeffersonian democracy and capitalism to Iraq.  Why do I call it Trotskite?  Because the NeoCon ideology has its roots in Trotskyism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CFT88cMlQo

Quote:What I find refreshing, though, is Kinser’s open admission of tribal thinking.  Most won’t admit that that’s what they are doing.

I see no shame in acting on my innate human nature.

Quote:As a progressive, I do not see it locked, inevitable and fixed.

As a Classical Liberal and Civic Nationalist neither do I.  But as someone who accepts that humans have a nature based in their biology, I understand that all humans being social creatures and limited by the evolutionary capacity establish for themselves tribes.  These tribes primarily base themselves on identity, most commonly race but also sexual orientation, religion and even sex.

As such this means that identity and the culture that arises from that identity is more important than politics.  In fact in other posts I've pointed out the following:  Identity yields Culture which yields Politics.  As such attempting to tackle political issues without addressing culture and identity issues first is essentially the same as closing a barn door after one's cattle has already vacated for the neighbor's pasture.

Quote: As a progressive, I am aware of progress.  Slavery ended.  [...]

Your adherance to Whig History blinds you.  As someone who at least partially subscribes to a cyclical theory of history should understand that society does not have an unending arrow of progress.  Rather we have an ebb and flow, much like a tide.

Quote:It is not inevitable.  Who is ‘us’ and who is ‘them’ is a culturally learned thing.  Some will view ‘us’ as a tribe with certain cultural, racial, religious and perhaps regional affiliations.  Others will view ‘us’ as Americans, and embrace cultural values that all humans are equal under law and equal in dignity.

I would argue that even if we agree that who is 'us' and who is 'them' is a culturally learned thing, that these 'us-es' and those 'them-s' are innate to the identity of the individual in question.  It is not a learned thing that I'm a gay black man.  These are statements of fact.  It is not a learned thing that I'm also of mostly rural stock and feel most at home in the South or Midwest either.

Quote:This is not fixed and unchangeable, but rather a significant element of the red / blue divide.  I will often say the blue believe in community and mutual support while the red value independence.  Ideally, the two could respect and understand each other and their differences.  In part, the problem is that the red have smaller tribes.  The blue will embrace and integrate much sooner than the red.  Many blue will see a strong cultural refusal to accept and share with others of their tribe as out and out evil.

I would argue that the red view the almost pathological altruism of the blue as the mental disorder it actually is.  Acceptance and sharing within a tribe is universal.  It is when attempting to embrace those outside of it that resistance is met by those who are rightfully skeptical of outsiders.

Quote:This mutual inability to understand is a core part of the divide.  Either that, or perhaps many of the blue leaning understand all too well.

I'm not convinced that the Blues understand much of anything.  If they embrace the Alt-Left they will end up in the gulags.  I should know because I used to be part of that Alt-Left as a Marxist-Leninist.  I think I said in a previous post that a comrade complained to me about something AntiFa was doing in a local area by telling him, and I quote, "Indulge them comrade, after-rev (after the revolution) they are the first to the gulags."  I hope I do not have to explain that the liberals follow the antifa useful idiots.

[pbrower2a]

The Germans know fascism very well... and they hate it. They have learned their lessons, and they have no delusion about any inherent goodness in human nature.

Magazine cover:



His struggle

Neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, Racism:
How Donald Trump stokes hatred in America

[Kinser79]

(08-24-2017, 11:16 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-23-2017, 10:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(08-23-2017, 12:25 PM)noway2 Wrote:

Quote:You're full of crap. Many Xers still adore Reagan.

That's why he is commonly, and not so affectionately, referred to as Saint Ray Gun?

I still remember the old joke, Q: "Why does Nancy Reagan sleep on top?" A: "Because Ronnie can only fuck up".

Noway, it is is Alphabet Soup.  He sincerely believes that Trump is both an agent of Russia and is going to start a nuclear war with Russia.  Never mind the fact that this is completely self-contradictory.

As for the appeal of Raegan, I would say that he is still well liked, even by Xers.  Mostly I think this is because the last three Presidents have been unmitigated disasters.

You are mixing me up with someone else. I've never commented on whether or not Trump would start a nuclear war with Russia. Although I have commented many times that Trump may turn us into a Vichy or Quisling state. Entirely different things.

For the record I believe it is highly unlikely Trump would start any sort of war with Russia. However, thankfully, there are some good Americans still somehow surviving in his administration who can be counted on to do the right thing vis a vis Article 5, etc.

Alphabet, I'm not confusing you with anyone else.  After all there is a Russian Agent under every bed.  Or did you recently change your tune because the "Muh Russia" narrative was proved to be a complete nothing burger as I said in November?

[Kinser79]

(08-24-2017, 11:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The Germans know fascism very well... and they hate it. They have learned their lessons, and they have no delusion about any inherent goodness in human nature.

Magazine cover:



His struggle

Neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, Racism:
How Donald Trump stokes hatred in America

In Germany anyone a little to the right of Bill Clinton is considered to be an extreme rightist.  Unfortunately this derangement is destroying Germany.  I will likely have the misfortune of living to see Germany disappear.

[Kinser79]

(08-24-2017, 12:48 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-24-2017, 12:35 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(08-24-2017, 11:16 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-23-2017, 10:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(08-23-2017, 12:25 PM)noway2 Wrote: That's why he is commonly, and not so affectionately, referred to as Saint Ray Gun?

I still remember the old joke, Q: "Why does Nancy Reagan sleep on top?" A: "Because Ronnie can only fuck up".

Noway, it is is Alphabet Soup.  He sincerely believes that Trump is both an agent of Russia and is going to start a nuclear war with Russia.  Never mind the fact that this is completely self-contradictory.

As for the appeal of Raegan, I would say that he is still well liked, even by Xers.  Mostly I think this is because the last three Presidents have been unmitigated disasters.

You are mixing me up with someone else. I've never commented on whether or not Trump would start a nuclear war with Russia. Although I have commented many times that Trump may turn us into a Vichy or Quisling state. Entirely different things.

For the record I believe it is highly unlikely Trump would start any sort of war with Russia. However, thankfully, there are some good Americans still somehow surviving in his administration who can be counted on to do the right thing vis a vis Article 5, etc.

Alphabet, I'm not confusing you with anyone else.  After all there is a Russian Agent under every bed.  Or did you recently change your tune because the "Muh Russia" narrative was proved to be a complete nothing burger as I said in November?

Whatever, according to you, the several esteemed people who've stated that we are victims of a Kremlin Infliuence Op are also supposed paranoids. I can turn this on its head and state, the energy you put into discrediting us well justified Rusophobes places you into the domestic enemy category. Watch out!

If I thought you were a credible threat I'd say bring it on.  But then again I don't.  I consider you to be a lone lunatic, and thus no threat to me since I have a concealed carry.

As for being on a domestic enemy list....that's nothing new.  I expect the FBI to have a dossier on me the size of a phone book.  In fact I would be disappointed if they didn't.

[Eric the Green]

(08-24-2017, 12:48 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-24-2017, 12:35 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(08-24-2017, 11:16 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-23-2017, 10:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(08-23-2017, 12:25 PM)noway2 Wrote: That's why he is commonly, and not so affectionately, referred to as Saint Ray Gun?

I still remember the old joke, Q: "Why does Nancy Reagan sleep on top?" A: "Because Ronnie can only fuck up".

Noway, it is is Alphabet Soup.  He sincerely believes that Trump is both an agent of Russia and is going to start a nuclear war with Russia.  Never mind the fact that this is completely self-contradictory.

As for the appeal of Raegan, I would say that he is still well liked, even by Xers.  Mostly I think this is because the last three Presidents have been unmitigated disasters.

You are mixing me up with someone else. I've never commented on whether or not Trump would start a nuclear war with Russia. Although I have commented many times that Trump may turn us into a Vichy or Quisling state. Entirely different things.

For the record I believe it is highly unlikely Trump would start any sort of war with Russia. However, thankfully, there are some good Americans still somehow surviving in his administration who can be counted on to do the right thing vis a vis Article 5, etc.

Alphabet, I'm not confusing you with anyone else.  After all there is a Russian Agent under every bed.  Or did you recently change your tune because the "Muh Russia" narrative was proved to be a complete nothing burger as I said in November?

Whatever, according to you, the several esteemed people who've stated that we are victims of a Kremlin Infliuence Op are also supposed paranoids. I can turn this on its head and state, the energy you put into discrediting us well justified Rusophobes places you into the domestic enemy category. Watch out!

Yes, I agree. kinser is a danger to this country. The Russian sabotage is well-documented by every agency of the US government except Daddy, its beneficiary.

[Eric the Green]

(08-23-2017, 12:25 PM)noway2 Wrote:

Quote:You're full of crap. Many Xers still adore Reagan.

That's why he is commonly, and not so affectionately, referred to as Saint Ray Gun?

I still remember the old joke, Q: "Why does Nancy Reagan sleep on top?" A: "Because Ronnie can only fuck up".

Very good joke lol

[Bob Butler 54]

I've been noting an emphasis on the antifa in the way right press, and an emphasis on the phrase 'Alt Left'.  This tries to suggests the left is as violent and prejudiced as the right, and thus justify what the 'Alt Right', neo confederates and neo Nazis are doing.

I for one don't see anything to gain from escalating the spiral of violence, but some seem inclined to do so.  Some of it is just being young and male.  With all that testosterone, it feels good to some to hit somebody.  I suspect a lot of the violence is just testosterone.

Has anyone encountered real people calling themselves the 'Alt Left', or is it all a propaganda ploy be Breitbart and company?  Has anyone here actually thrown a punch or swung a club?

[pbrower2a]

Kinser -- when Obama was President the FBI was investigating criminals and the CIA was spying on terrorists. With Trump as President the FBI is spying on the President and his hangers-on, and the CIA is spying on people connected to the President.

That is no trivial difference.

[pbrower2a]

(08-27-2017, 02:56 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I've been noting an emphasis on the antifa in the way right press, and an emphasis on the phrase 'Alt Left'.  This tries to suggests the left is as violent and prejudiced as the right, and thus justify what the 'Alt Right', neo confederates and neo Nazis are doing.

Anyone not prejudiced against fascists is a fool.

Could Antifa be authoritarian? Sure. It could decide that anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders is a fascist.... which is a bad way to go. It has never been in such a position yet. 

The Hard Right adopted the "Alt Right" label, and the left-wing opposition to the Hard Right now finds that right-wing media have affixed the unwelcome label "Alt Left".

Anyone who consorts with genocidal tyrants, nostalgia for a slave system, or Apartheid/Jim Crow soils himself. Nazi and Confederate flags marching together? That hurts anyone who wants a connection to ancestors who fought in the Civil War in what those ancestors considered a noble cause. But this said, anyone who associates with Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot soils himself, too.

Quote:I for one don't see anything to gain from escalating the spiral of violence, but some seem inclined to do so.  Some of it is just being young and male.  With all that testosterone, it feels good to some to hit somebody.  I suspect a lot of the violence is just testosterone.

It is remembering that all fascist causes are best described as young men's clubs (not to be confused with the YMCA). Anger and testosterone make a dangerous mix. Someone who sees himself as a reject for not having a job despite wanting one? Fascists offer him a uniform, a direction, a purpose, and discipline, just like an army. Maybe even a weapon.

Quote:Has anyone encountered real people calling themselves the 'Alt Left', or is it all a propaganda ploy be Breitbart and company?  Has anyone here actually thrown a punch or swung a club?

It's an attempt to brand people who oppose Ku Kluxism, neo-Nazism, and the worst rhetoric of Donald Trump as 'fascists just the same'.

[Kinser79]

(08-27-2017, 02:56 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I've been noting an emphasis on the antifa in the way right press, and an emphasis on the phrase 'Alt Left'.  This tries to suggests the left is as violent and prejudiced as the right, and thus justify what the 'Alt Right', neo confederates and neo Nazis are doing.

I for one don't see anything to gain from escalating the spiral of violence, but some seem inclined to do so.  Some of it is just being young and male.  With all that testosterone, it feels good to some to hit somebody.  I suspect a lot of the violence is just testosterone.

Has anyone encountered real people calling themselves the 'Alt Left', or is it all a propaganda ploy be Breitbart and company?  Has anyone here actually thrown a punch or swung a club?

The Alt-Left is part of memetic warfare.  Not that I expect you to get it.  Boomers don't seem capable of understanding memes to any great degree.

In general the term Alt-Right is applied to Right Populists, and White Identitarians to distinguish them from the milquetoast GOP types.  The Alt-Left is a counter-propaganda meme used to combat that.  As to what the alt-left calls themselves, well they usually term themselves as Progressives, or Antifa or Black Lives Matter (since you seem to think BLM stands for Bureau of Land Management).

The last one is most troubling because they want to destroy the law enforcement agencies, the very agencies most likely to be called to deal with the crime problem brought on by the effects of the welfare state on the black population.

[Kinser79]

(08-27-2017, 04:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Kinser -- when Obama was President the FBI was investigating criminals and the CIA was spying on terrorists. With Trump as President the FBI is spying on the President and his hangers-on, and the CIA is spying on people connected to the President.

That is no trivial difference.

The last time this was true was when JFK was president as well.  Both times the President was an existental threat to the Deep State, that is to say, the swamp.

[Eric the Green]

(08-28-2017, 10:51 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-27-2017, 02:56 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I've been noting an emphasis on the antifa in the way right press, and an emphasis on the phrase 'Alt Left'.  This tries to suggests the left is as violent and prejudiced as the right, and thus justify what the 'Alt Right', neo confederates and neo Nazis are doing.

I for one don't see anything to gain from escalating the spiral of violence, but some seem inclined to do so.  Some of it is just being young and male.  With all that testosterone, it feels good to some to hit somebody.  I suspect a lot of the violence is just testosterone.

Has anyone encountered real people calling themselves the 'Alt Left', or is it all a propaganda ploy be Breitbart and company?  Has anyone here actually thrown a punch or swung a club?

No doubt there are a few Black Block folks and folks at the extreme end of the Antifa spectrum who are now getting violent. In a way I do not blame them. They look at history and see many opportunities to strike back early at Totalitarianism that were not taken. The Jews in Germany and other places in Europe could have been more brutal in response to harassment. That having been written, most of this "Alt-Left" business is agitprop from the Duginist scum. I write that from a True Right perspective, BTW. Duginists are not True Rightists. They are revolutionary scum.

I see no evidence that antifa types are Duginists; quite the opposite. However, they are on the Left no doubt about that.

[Bob Butler 54]

We have CNN reporting Trump to lift military gear ban for local police.  Reportedly, military gear without proper training has resulted in a militaristic attitude among police that may contribute to civilian deaths.  Obama tried to fight it a bit.  Trump is reversing course.  I'll keep an eye out for the right wing view on things.

[Ragnarök_62]

(08-27-2017, 04:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Kinser -- when Obama was President the FBI was investigating criminals and the CIA was spying on terrorists. With Trump as President the FBI is spying on the President and his hangers-on, and the CIA is spying on people connected to the President.

That is no trivial difference.

Bob Butler Wrote:I've been noting an emphasis on the antifa in the way right press, and an emphasis on the phrase 'Alt Left'.  This tries to suggests the left is as violent and prejudiced as the right, and thus justify what the 'Alt Right', neo confederates and neo Nazis are doing.

Yes, assorted spin which can approach Hurricane Harvey levels is at best confusing and at worst unleashes devastation.

So...
"Alt-Right" is a meme which has assorted groups which fall mostly in the right-authoritarian quad of the political compass. I say mostly, since the tag is very obtuse.  I prefer to called the undesirables in that quad, "the white supremacist groups. So, that's the tag I prefer since it's more precise.

"Alt-Left" is also fuzzy.  You mentioned antifa.  They suck just as much as white supremacists because...
attacked person is not a skin head, but rather said person shaved his head or is just bald, MAGA hat wearers,
press coverage, and most of all, you have some minor difference of opinion. IOW I think a bunch of hormone addled young men are in touch with their inner bull.







[/quote]

Try again.  Both antifa and right supremacists are both equally evil.


They're terrorists.

XY_MOD_4AD Wrote:I've been noting an emphasis on the antifa in the way right press, and an emphasis on the phrase 'Alt Left'.  This tries to suggests the left is as violent and prejudiced as the right, and thus justify what the 'Alt Right', neo confederates and neo Nazis are doing.

From the horse's mouth:
http://wtvr.com/2017/08/14/cbs-6-journal...d-protest/


Rats and roaches are more deserving of biomass than radical crackpots on both sides and... and pox on both houses.


---
Rags - of utmost service.   and... Fair and balanced in the no spin zone.

[Eric the Green]

Not equally evil, because antifa seeks to stop fascism before it starts. We have no idea what kind of government antifa would institute. But yes both are wrong because they are too violent and lawless.

[Eric the Green]

(08-28-2017, 04:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-28-2017, 02:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-28-2017, 10:51 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-27-2017, 02:56 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I've been noting an emphasis on the antifa in the way right press, and an emphasis on the phrase 'Alt Left'.  This tries to suggests the left is as violent and prejudiced as the right, and thus justify what the 'Alt Right', neo confederates and neo Nazis are doing.

I for one don't see anything to gain from escalating the spiral of violence, but some seem inclined to do so.  Some of it is just being young and male.  With all that testosterone, it feels good to some to hit somebody.  I suspect a lot of the violence is just testosterone.

Has anyone encountered real people calling themselves the 'Alt Left', or is it all a propaganda ploy be Breitbart and company?  Has anyone here actually thrown a punch or swung a club?

No doubt there are a few Black Block folks and folks at the extreme end of the Antifa spectrum who are now getting violent. In a way I do not blame them. They look at history and see many opportunities to strike back early at Totalitarianism that were not taken. The Jews in Germany and other places in Europe could have been more brutal in response to harassment. That having been written, most of this "Alt-Left" business is agitprop from the Duginist scum. I write that from a True Right perspective, BTW. Duginists are not True Rightists. They are revolutionary scum.

I see no evidence that antifa types are Duginists; quite the opposite. However, they are on the Left no doubt about that.

Eric read more carefully. I wrote 'That having been written, most of this "Alt-Left" business is agitprop from the Duginist scum.'

OK, so noted. I don't know what "agitprop" meant (I can guess now). But I am not good with acronyms and made-up words.