Michigan plot, October 2020

[pbrower2a]

(taken from a rarely-read board that I tried to revive)

Literal TREASON against a state:

by: Adam Fisher
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 / 10:36 AM EDT / Updated: Oct 8, 2020 / 12:25 PM EDT


LANSING, Mich (WLNS)- 6 News has learned, State law enforcement stopped a ‘massive statewide’ plot to kidnap and kill Michigan Governor.

Six men already faces federal charges in that plot, and authorities say, they even went as far as to find and watch her vacation home and building bombs, authorities say.
A document filed in federal court Tuesday identifies the suspects as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta.

In the criminal complaint, an FBI agent wrote that talk of targeting the governor surfaced as early as June as Fox and other members of an unnamed militia met in Ohio. They were angry about Whitmer’s mandates issued in response to the coronavirus that shut down businesses.
The documents show that as conversations continued over the following months, sometimes at tactical training gatherings, a more firm plan formed.

“Fox described it as a ‘Snatch and grab, man. Grab the (expletive) Governor. Just grab the (expletive). Because that that point, we do that, dude — it’s over,’” the criminal complaint reads in part.

According to the document, the militia members talked about storming the state Capitol in Lansing and killing police officers, but Garbin shut that idea down. It was then the focus turned to the governor’s vacation home. The suspects allegedly figured out where that house was and went there Aug. 29 to scope it out.

Fox ultimately bought a Taser to use in the attack. In addition to discussing various bombings, Garbin suggested blowing up a nearby bridge in an effort to slow the police response.

The plan was to take Whitmer to Wisconsin and hold a kangaroo court trial for treason.
There was talk of actually carrying out the plan on the night of Sept. 12 and Sept. 13, but Croft thought the time was not right, so the suspects held off. They wanted to do it before the Nov. 3 election.

Fox had been staying at the Vac Shack at the intersection of S. Division Avenue and 36th Street in Grand Rapids, which was raided by the FBI Wednesday.
The store’s owner Brian Titus told News 8 he has known Fox since he was a child. He said he knew Fox was in a militia, but didn’t know how serious his anti-government opinions had gotten.

“I thought he was just trying to stand up for our constitutional rights,” Titus, clearly upset, said.

He said Fox had “changed” in the last eight months, objecting to wearing a mask because he thought it was a violation of his rights. Titus said he attended a protest of militia members at the state Capitol over the summer.

All the suspects except for Croft, who is from Delaware, are from Michigan. Harris lives in Lake Orion.

The Michigan Attorney General will Join both the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan, and Eastern District of Michigan, as well as the FBI, and Michigan State Police Colonial at 1 PM to discuss the plot, and their investigation.

LANSING, Mich. (WLNS)– Happening today at 1 PM Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel will make a joint announcement with several law enforcement officials across the state.
Those officials include:

• Andrew Birge, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan
  
  
• Matthew Schneider, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan
  
  
• Josh Hauxhurst, Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, F.B.I.
  
  
• Michigan State Police Col. Joseph Casper
  

[pbrower2a]

AG: Michigan governor, family were ‘made aware’ and moved as plotters tracked
MIDWEST
Ji Suk Yi, Aaron Nolan
Posted: OCT 9, 2020 / 11:10 AM CDT | Updated: OCT 9, 2020 / 11:11 AM CDT

LANSING, Mich. (NewsNation Now) — Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer was aware of the kidnapping plot against her, the state’s attorney general said Friday.

“Well, she’s certainly been apprised of everything that’s happening during the course of this investigation as it pertained to her,” said Dana Nessel, Attorney General of Michigan, said in an interview with NewsNation on Friday. “Of course, remembering that there’s a lot more to all of this than just the plans that involved the governor; there were plots to take over the state capitol, to execute people involved with law enforcement and other public officials.”

“The number one goal is to make sure that nobody gets injured and nobody gets harmed,” added Nessel, “but yes the governor has been made aware of anything pertinent to her and her family’s safety so her detail was always aware in our investigation.”

13 charged in plots against Michigan governor, police 

The governor and her family were at times moved around by authorities as law enforcement tracked the men who allegedly plotted for months to kidnap her, Nessel disclosed on “CBS This Morning.”

Authorities announced Thursday that they foiled a plot to kidnap Whitmer in a scheme that involved months of planning and even rehearsals to snatch her from her vacation home before the Nov. 3 elections. Whitmer’s first term as governor does not end until 2022.
Six men were charged in federal court with conspiring to kidnap the governor in reaction to what they viewed as her “uncontrolled power,” according to a federal complaint. Separately, seven others were charged under the state’s anti-terrorism laws for allegedly targeting police and the state Capitol.

Nessel said what’s next for them, “Well there are going to be preliminary hearings, calendar conferences have been scheduled. At this point I think the majority of the defendants have all been arraigned. They are certainly all in custody right now.  So the cases will move forward.  On the state level there will be probable cause conferences, preliminary exams scheduled, and the cases will be scheduled for trial.” 

The two groups trained together and planned “various acts of violence,” according to the state police.
Surveillance for the kidnapping plot took place in August and September, according to an FBI affidavit, and four of the men had planned to meet Wednesday to “make a payment on explosives and exchange tactical gear.”
“We thought it was time to move in before anybody lost their lives,” Nessel said.

FILE – In this March 5, 2020, file photo, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel speaks during a news conference in Lansing, Mich. Nessel has charged seven people with plotting to target law enforcement and attack state Capitol building. The announcement comes after six others were charged with plotting to kidnap Michigan Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer at her vacation home in reaction to what they viewed as her “uncontrolled power,” according to a criminal complaint unsealed Thursday , Oct. 8, 2020, in federal court. (AP Photo/David Eggert, File)

The FBI quoted one of the men accused of conspiring to kidnap Whitmer as saying she “has no checks and balances at all. She has uncontrolled power right now. All good things must come to an end.” That same man, Adam Fox, who was described as one of the leaders in the alleged plot, livestreamed a video to a private Facebook group “in which he complained about the judicial system and the state controlling the opening of gyms,” according to the federal complaint.

Whiter closed gyms in March but reopened them in some areas in June and statewide in September.
Authorities said the plots were stopped with the work of undercover agents and informants. The men were arrested Wednesday night. The six charged in federal court face up to life in prison if convicted. State terrorism charges the other seven men face carry a possible 20-year sentence.

Andrew Birge, the U.S. attorney in western Michigan, called the men “violent extremists.” They discussed detonating explosive devices — including under a highway bridge — to divert police from the area near Whitmer’s vacation home and Fox bought a Taser to use in the kidnapping, Birge said.

“All of us in Michigan can disagree about politics, but those disagreements should never, ever amount to violence. Violence has been prevented today,” Detroit U.S. Attorney Matthew Schneider said Thursday.
Nessel also had a warning for others, “I will tell you that certainly our task force, the Michigan State Police, The Department of Attorney General here, and of course the federal U.S. Attorneys and FBI, we continue to work together, we continue to monitor groups. Again not just in Michigan, but in several other states as well. I can say this, if people who are involved in this kind of activity think that they are not being watched and no one knows what they are doing and they can get away with these types of criminal acts, they should really think a little bit more carefully and consider the very serious charges that have been levied against these 13 individuals and it should serve as a deterrent to them.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

© 1998 - 2020 Nexstar Inc. | All Rights Reserved.

[pbrower2a]

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (AP) — Members of anti-government paramilitary groups discussed kidnapping Virginia’s governor during a June meeting in Ohio, an FBI agent testified Tuesday during a court hearing in Michigan.

Special Agent Richard Trask was part of the investigation that led to six men being arrested and charged last week with plotting to kidnap Michigan’s Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. Seven other men face state terrorism charges.

Trask did not name Virginia’s Democratic governor, Ralph Northam, during his testimony in a federal courtroom in Grand Rapids. He said members of anti-government groups from multiple states attended the meeting.

“They discussed possible targets, taking a sitting governor, specifically issues with the governor of Michigan and Virginia based on the lockdown orders,” Trask said. He said the people at the meeting were unhappy with the governors’ response to the coronavirus pandemic.

Trask did not discuss further planning aimed at Northam.

The FBI did not brief Northam on any potential threat, according to a state official with knowledge of the governor’s briefings who was not authorized to speak publicly.

The June meeting was part of the FBI’s investigation of various anti-government groups, leading to last week’s stunning announcement that six men had been arrested for an alleged plot to kidnap Whitmer.

............

Comment: the plot thickens.

[David Horn]

(10-13-2020, 12:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Comment: the plot thickens.

I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

Other than a few groups such as the Proud Boys, most of the militia are focused more on the Second Amendment than racism.  At least they are not traveling much to urban turf to instigate.  There could be some more groups who believe saving lives is an affront to freedom, but most don't see that as excusing violent means?

The AP just put out a piece on sunset towns or grey towns where groups of racists gather to exclude minorities.  Black people know which towns are problematic and avoid them, but white people remain ignorant enough of them to think they don't exist.  But such towns are a different problem.  They defend in their own way a particular area rather than moving where the minorities are more numerous.

[pbrower2a]

(10-14-2020, 09:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

From the Gunpowder Plot to this one, most conspiracies lack the discipline to succeed at their objective. The Lincoln plot succeeded only in the tragic death of precisely the man to fully redeem a nation recently rifted; the only participant who seemed to know what he was doing was John Wilkes Booth. The rest of the participants were schmucks who failed in their appointed tasks. There have been coups, but many of those ended up replacing one tyrant with another or replacing a shaky democracy with a brutal new order (Bolshevik "revolution, overthrow of Salvador Allende). Of course, I wish that the July 20 plot had succeeded, and it came close because the conspirators generally knew what they were doing but also knew that one thing (death or isolation of Hitler) was necessary. Even then, the plotter charged with capturing the communication nexus for the Third Reich didn't cut the wires to Josef Goebbels' telephone. 

You have seen the images of the conspirators this time, and probably those who plotted against Abraham Lincoln. Do those people look like the sorts that you would want on an effort that requires extreme discipline and dedication? To be sure, appearance isn't everything.   

Quote:Other than a few groups such as the Proud Boys, most of the militia are focused more on the Second Amendment than racism.  At least they are not traveling much to urban turf to instigate.  There could be some more groups who believe saving lives is an affront to freedom, but most don't see that as excusing violent means?

Violence against lawful government is anti-democratic to the extent that the government has the hallmarks of legitimacy resulting from a free and fair election, action within the constraints of some Constitution, and adherence to the rule of law. If the system is the Third Reich, then of course a violent overthrow is all that can redeem the nation under the rule of a tyrant. The State of Michigan is obviously nothing like Nazi Germany.   

Quote:The AP just put out a piece on sunset towns or grey towns where groups of racists gather to exclude minorities.  Black people know which towns are problematic and avoid them, but white people remain ignorant enough of them to think they don't exist.  But such towns are a different problem.  They defend in their own way a particular area rather than moving where the minorities are more numerous.

Few white people recognize how insidious the people supposedly defending them from minorities (as David DuKKKe put it in one interview, some black man entering your white daughter's precious... enough said) are. Truth be told, immigrants are attracted to the places with the vibrant economies and not to communities of unmitigated failure.

[pbrower2a]

Controversial documentary-film maker Michael Moore chimes in:

[David Horn]

(10-14-2020, 09:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

Give the early Marxists credit for creating a revolution based on an uncoordinated cell structure that's the model for these sorts of things.  Credit the FBI for understanding that better than any investigative service in the world.  It's been put to both good and bad use, as anyone in the early civil right or antiwar movements can fully attest.

[pbrower2a]

(10-15-2020, 05:11 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-14-2020, 09:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

Give the early Marxists credit for creating a revolution based on an uncoordinated cell structure that's the model for these sorts of things.  Credit the FBI for understanding that better than any investigative service in the world.  It's been put to both good and bad use, as anyone in the early civil right or antiwar movements can fully attest.

The "cells" were too large and thus inadequately disciplined. Some of those involved were excessively involved in testing their toys (that is, firearms), and that is one way to get attention from nosy neighbors.

[pbrower2a]

tails emerge. WXMI-TV. FoX-17, Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek:



Video, images reveal vivid details of plot to kidnap governor












By: Chris Bovia
Posted at 6:02 PM, Oct 16, 2020
 
and last updated 10:17 PM, Oct 16, 2020
MICHIGAN — FOX 17 has obtained chilling images and video from the US Attorney's office revealing details surrounding the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer.

Among the pages of documents are screenshots of text messages, crudely drawn maps, and videos outlining different scenarios and training exercises.

"Have one person go to her house. Knock on the door and when she answers it just cap her... " One screenshot reads. The videos threaten the governor and anyone attempting to stop the plot once it's in action.
Alleged conspirators discuss codes and protocol, demanding changes when one person alerted the group police had questioned a former room mate. Screenshots and pictures show them doing surveillance on properties belonging to Whitmer and plans to stop police from intervening.

The group identifies someone only known as "Grandpa" as the person making plans and cutting off future protests and contact when authorities were believed to be too close.


The language throughout the documents is graphic - as are some images in the videos. Plans include stashing med kits, buying get-away vehicles - or a "boog mobile", and practicing tactics from the basement of a store. Suspect Adam Fox was arrested from a store in Wyoming where he was staying in a basement.

The conspirators, only going by aliases in chats, describe their resentment of police and government officials, promising "...focused righteous anger backed by truth and morality..."

Anti-police conversations describe traffic stops as robberies, saying the police are throwing out the Constitution and planting evidence in preparation for future arrests.

"This is literally why those two cops were shot in Tuscon or Fresno... S*** is getting old." One conspirator wrote.
"Just wait it's gonna get worse" Another responded.

Still further in the conversation; "When it comes there will be no need to try and strike fear through presence. The fear will be manifested through bullets."

In a side conversation, two of the conspirators openly discuss killing a former cop in Maine for a woman whose uncle allegedly owed her inheritance money.

To date, 14 men have been charged with conspiracy to kidnap and kill Governor Whitmer, cases for 5 of which were approved to move forward by the courts.

Much more detail here. Transcripts and images.

[pbrower2a]

So why do conspiracies fail? Someone (if the conspiracy is large and hare-brained enough) decides that that the best way to save hi hide is to go to the legal authorities. Police ended up infiltrating this clique and got damning details (like people scouting the Governor's vacation house).

[pbrower2a]

Just because the insurrection at the Capitol has overshadowed this plot doesn't mean that the story is dead. 

[pbrower2a]

Not again!



Two men charged with threatening Michigan public officials over election results

[/url]By [url=https://www.cnn.com/profiles/caroline-kelly]Caroline Kelly and Brian Vitagliano, CNN

Updated 5:16 PM ET, Tue February 23, 2021



(CNN)Two men face criminal charges for allegedly threatening Michigan public officials, including a US senator and congresswoman, regarding the results of the 2020 election, according to a news release from Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel.
Daniel Thompson of Michigan is charged with three counts of malicious use of service provided by a telecommunication service provider, according to the charging documents provided by Nessel's office. Thompson allegedly left threatening messages for Michigan Democratic Sen. Debbie Stabenow, made vulgar and threatening remarks during a phone conversation with a staffer in Michigan Democratic Rep. Elissa Slotkin's office, and made another threatening call to Slotkin.
According to the charges announced Tuesday, Thompson allegedly left a voicemail for Stabenow stating that he was upset over the November election results, that he was a member of a Michigan extremist group and that, if the election results were not changed, there would be violence. In the conversation with a staffer in Slotkin's office, Thompson said that people would die and made violent remarks in a conversation lasting over an hour, per Nessel's office.
A second man, Clinton Stewart of Georgia, was charged on Tuesday with one count of malicious use of service provided by a telecommunications service provider. Stewart allegedly left a threatening voicemail in September for Michigan Court of Claims Judge Cynthia Stephens accusing "activist judges" of issuing rulings that helped President Joe Biden win the election due to mail-in ballots.


CNN has left messages for Thompson and Stewart seeking comment.

"It is unacceptable and illegal to intimidate or threaten public officials," Nessel said in the news release. "To those who think they can do so by hiding behind a keyboard or phone, we will find you and we will prosecute you, to the fullest extent of the law. No elected official should have to choose between doing their job and staying safe."
Female Michigan Democratic officials have faced significant threats in recent months. In October, 14 people were charged in an alleged domestic terrorism plot to kidnap Michigan Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, federal and state officials announced at the time.
The alleged scheme included plans to overthrow several state governments that the suspects "believe are violating the US Constitution," including the government of Michigan and Whitmer, according to a federal criminal complaint. Two of those charged in the alleged domestic terrorism plot to kidnap Whitmer are former Marines, the Corps said at the time.

Former President Donald Trump repeatedly attacked Whitmer before and after the news of the plot, and Whitmer wrote in The Atlantic at the time that every time he did so, threats surged. During a rally in Michigan in late October, Trump lambasted Whitmer, at one point taking credit for the FBI thwarting a plot to kidnap her and then immediately downplaying the actual threat that had been posed to her.
Additionally, in December, "credible threats of violence" prompted Michigan authorities to close the state Capitol to the public and shutter House and Senate offices, a spokeswoman said, on the day the Electoral College was slated to formally declare Biden the President-elect.
CNN's Christina Carrega, Veronica Stracqualursi, Josh Campbell, Maegan Vazquez, Nikki Carvajal and Chandelis Duster contributed to this report.

• https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/23/politics/men-charged-threatening-michigan-public-officials-election-results/index.html
  

[pbrower2a]

The trial is beginning. Detroit Free Pres. 

A confidential FBI informant testified Friday in a Jackson (Michigan) court about being embedded for months alongside leaders of a group accused of plotting to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.
The informant’s identity was concealed for his safety. Introduced only as “Dan,” an online video feed of Friday’s hearing was cut off during his testimony so court observers only could hear him.
Dan described learning of the group — known as the Wolverine Watchmen — through a Facebook algorithm that he believed made the suggestion based on his interactions with other Facebook pages that support the Second Amendment and firearms training.
“I was scrolling through Facebook one day and they popped up as a suggestion post,” Dan said. “I clicked on the page and it had a few questions to answer.” 

After answering the questions satisfactorily, Dan, an Army veteran who described himself as a Libertarian, was admitted into the group and told to download an encrypted messaging app called Wire so he could communicate in secret with other members. The app prohibited screenshots and would periodically delete all messages.

Dan's acceptance into the Facebook group was the beginning of his journey as a confidential FBI “human source” that took him to protests at the state Capitol and to rural training exercises with members of the group who expressed a desire to hurt and kill law enforcement officers and politicians. Dan testified he sometimes wore a wire and feared for his safety, eventually deciding to sell his house when his address became known.

Dan and the group's members also attended what he described as a Black Lives Matter protest in Detroit. The group went to the protest envisioning a possible gunfight with police if pepper spray was used on protesters, he testified. The group waited in a parking lot but eventually left the protest without incident.

Dan told a friend in law enforcement about the group shortly after learning of its desires to harm police officers. The FBI then approached him and he agreed to cooperate, he testified, adding that he did not ask for money.
As an FBI source, Dan became familiar with the three defendants in court today on charges they supported a plot to kidnap Whitmer.

Dan testified at the preliminary examination for Pete Musico, 43; his son-in-law, Joseph Morrison, 26; and Paul Bellar, 22.

The men are just three of the 14 men said to have plotted to target Whitmer over her restrictions to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus. Six of the 14 men were charged federally, and eight were charged at the state level over two counties.

Defense attorneys attempted to distance the accused from the surveillance activities to further the plot to kidnap Whitmer.

Bellar had left the Wolverine Watchmen to live with his father in South Carolina last summer, well before the plans advanced in the ensuing months, his attorney, Andrew Kirkpatrick, said during cross-examination of the informant.

During his testimony, Dan confirmed that other members in the group suspected Bellar of cooperating with law enforcement after his departure from Michigan.

Dan testified for about six hours on Friday, and he was the final witness to be called in the preliminary exam.
Judge Michael Klaeren set March 29 as the next hearing date.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/03/05/whitmer-kidnapping-plot-hearing-musico-morrison-bellar/4591203001/

[pbrower2a]

Still more. The Michigan plot shows portents of the Capitol Putsch. Video from NBC News:





There are people cranky enough to believe that laws mandating masks are somehow greater compromises to freedom than being hooked onto a ventilator with the high risk of dying on it. Prosecutions are underway in Michigan.

[Einzige]

None of these reactionaries threatened anyone except themselves. The capitalist State does not serve the petit-bourgeois strata they come from, and has no interest beyond using them as an electoral base for right-neoliberalism.

[pbrower2a]

(04-15-2021, 01:02 AM)Einzige Wrote: None of these reactionaries threatened anyone except themselves. The capitalist State does not serve the petit-bourgeois strata they come from, and has no interest beyond using them as an electoral base for right-neoliberalism.

Well... they failed. Oh, did they fail!

Conspiracies that fall apart put the participants at risk of severe legal consequences. Mercifully this one failed before anyone got hurt or killed.

[pbrower2a]

The American legal process can unfold with amazing... sloth. One pleads guilty to a felony to avoid even harder time, perhaps in return for lesser time in prison than others involved. 

Quote:A Michigan man who admitted taking part in an extremist group's plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in retaliation for Covid restrictions was sentenced Wednesday to over six years in prison.


The man, Ty Garbin, 25, is the only person to have pleaded guilty out of the more than a dozen men facing state and federal charges stemming from the plot. Five of those charged in federal court pleaded not guilty and face trial in October.

U.S. District Judge Robert Jonker sentenced Garbin to 75 months in prison, followed by three years of probation, and a $2,500 fine.

During the sentencing hearing, Garbin apologized to Whitmer, who was not present.
"First, I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and her family," he told the court. "I've had a lot of time to reflect on my actions, and I never realized what my actions would have caused to her, but also her family.
"I can't even begin to imagine the amount of stress and fear her family members felt because of my actions, and for that I'm truly sorry," he said.

Source: NBC News.

He has had ten months in which to reflect. At least he is young enough that he can make something out of himself. My suggestion to him: read... and read... and read. Contrition is a healthy thing.

[David Horn]

There are others still out ther awaiting trial. If 6 years is the deal made for a guilty plea, some will receive serious punishment -- decades at least. It's unlikely to dissuade others of similar bent from doing similar things in the future, but it will stand as a benchmark.

[pbrower2a]

(08-26-2021, 09:01 AM)David Horn Wrote: There are others still out there awaiting trial.  If 6 years is the deal made for a guilty plea, some will receive serious punishment -- decades at least.  It's unlikely to dissuade others of similar bent from doing similar things in the future, but it will stand as a benchmark.

Some are guiltier than others in a conspiracy. He is the youngest and he may have been able to say that older and more cunning people had manipulated him into actins that he now regrets. We do not yet know everything, including the facts of the case and the psychological dynamics of the participants scheduled for trials. All conspiracies are milky until the harsh light of justice dries the mire. As I see it some of the accused face this prospect:



Except for the prediction that former President Trump will end up there, this looks like an objective insight into what awaits some defendants in this case. The prospect of this Hell on Earth would scare me more than the sick ceremony of a formal execution. At least with an execution one's misery is over. At least on Death Row one can do what many do -- kiss up to the Almighty in some religious sect that offers cheap grace (have faith and you avoid going to Hell where the non-believers end up*). The only freedom that I can imagine there is the exercise of religion.  ADX Florence is isolation and social deprivation that deny the humanity of the prisoner. Life is stripped of all possible meaning. Even in a Nazi "labor" camp one had the hope that one would outlast a regime that the rest of the world sought to overthrow. One's life would be shattered, but one cou8ld also pickup the pieces. If the rest of one's family and old friends had been obliterated one would have the prospect of love, marriage, and a new family with very different people. The symphony, the drama, and the art will still be there, and if one has talent and competence one will no longer be a pariah for being Jewish or a political dissident**. A Stalin-era Gulag? Maybe the regime would relent at some point and choose some partial amnesty. The United States of America has two things over all the Evil Empires that ever existed: durability and continuity. If you are Victor Frankl (I would suggest that his Man's Search for Meaning be on Ty Garbin's reading list) even the Red Army is deliverance. If you are Ted "Unabom" Kaczynski then one faces no prospect of even the pretense of rehabilitation in ADX Florence.  

 Ty Garbin has surely been told of what awaits him as comparative privileges. He may get vocational training and some access to formal education. He will get unfettered access to religion. There is cable television, so he will be able to get religious programming. Maybe he would not gravitate toward sports, news, public affairs, PBS documentaries, cultural events  (occasional concerts, operas, and ballets on PBS), and old movies as I would if I still had cable TV... I'm priced out and I live 70 miles from a broadcast tower of any kind, so I now must rely upon an extensive collection of recorded video or the Internet. The stated objective of rehabilitation (prisons are often euphemized as "reformatories" is that he will come out of it a better person than he went in. Everything in a conventional prison except bare survival is a privilege, and good behavior allows one access to educational and vocational programs, access to at least radio, books, and even cable TV, and religious services.  

I hope that he comes out of his experience of federal prison 75 months older, considerably wiser, and able to pick up the pieces of his life. He will serve as a warning that even with comparative mercy that involvement in violent extremism is a very bad idea.  

*I consider cheap grace unlikely; if there is a just God, then those who either believed in the wrong entities or in Him the wrong way, one will get that detail right very quickly. God Almighty chooses whatever theology He wants, and it may change depending upon how He chooses to judge the recently-departed. A Nazi brute might discover that God is Jewish. Crusaders who butchered Muslims might be scared to find that God is Allah and Muhammad is His Greatest Prophet. 9-11 perpetrators find that God is a Roman Catholic (New York City may be known for its Jewish population, but it is more Catholic than anything else). The Kluxers who bombed the Eighth Street Baptist Church in Birmingham and killed four black girls find that God identifies as black. So... DON'T DO EVIL!

** If there is a Hell, then one of its worst torments will not be the knowledge that people in Heaven will be taking delight in watching your suffering. If I were a denizen of Heaven, that (the three-headed dog Cerberus and his progeny ripping the souls of Nazi war criminals; dogs kill much like bears and Big Cats, differing from those more infamous animals in being better behaved) would get very old very fast. Hell is still a vile place of sensual insult and deprivation, but it has the added torment of having the video stream going the other way: the delights of those who were one's victims enjoying heavenly bliss to which the damned are condemned to observe for eternity.