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Michigan plot, October 2020
#1
(taken from a rarely-read board that I tried to revive)

Literal TREASON against a state:

by: Adam Fisher
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 / 10:36 AM EDT / Updated: Oct 8, 2020 / 12:25 PM EDT



LANSING, Mich (WLNS)- 6 News has learned, State law enforcement stopped a ‘massive statewide’ plot to kidnap and kill Michigan Governor.

Six men already faces federal charges in that plot, and authorities say, they even went as far as to find and watch her vacation home and building bombs, authorities say.
A document filed in federal court Tuesday identifies the suspects as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta.


In the criminal complaint, an FBI agent wrote that talk of targeting the governor surfaced as early as June as Fox and other members of an unnamed militia met in Ohio. They were angry about Whitmer’s mandates issued in response to the coronavirus that shut down businesses.
The documents show that as conversations continued over the following months, sometimes at tactical training gatherings, a more firm plan formed.


“Fox described it as a ‘Snatch and grab, man. Grab the (expletive) Governor. Just grab the (expletive). Because that that point, we do that, dude — it’s over,’” the criminal complaint reads in part.


According to the document, the militia members talked about storming the state Capitol in Lansing and killing police officers, but Garbin shut that idea down. It was then the focus turned to the governor’s vacation home. The suspects allegedly figured out where that house was and went there Aug. 29 to scope it out.


Fox ultimately bought a Taser to use in the attack. In addition to discussing various bombings, Garbin suggested blowing up a nearby bridge in an effort to slow the police response.


The plan was to take Whitmer to Wisconsin and hold a kangaroo court trial for treason.
There was talk of actually carrying out the plan on the night of Sept. 12 and Sept. 13, but Croft thought the time was not right, so the suspects held off. They wanted to do it before the Nov. 3 election.


Fox had been staying at the Vac Shack at the intersection of S. Division Avenue and 36th Street in Grand Rapids, which was raided by the FBI Wednesday.
The store’s owner Brian Titus told News 8 he has known Fox since he was a child. He said he knew Fox was in a militia, but didn’t know how serious his anti-government opinions had gotten.


“I thought he was just trying to stand up for our constitutional rights,” Titus, clearly upset, said.


He said Fox had “changed” in the last eight months, objecting to wearing a mask because he thought it was a violation of his rights. Titus said he attended a protest of militia members at the state Capitol over the summer.


All the suspects except for Croft, who is from Delaware, are from Michigan. Harris lives in Lake Orion.


The Michigan Attorney General will Join both the U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan, and Eastern District of Michigan, as well as the FBI, and Michigan State Police Colonial at 1 PM to discuss the plot, and their investigation.


LANSING, Mich. (WLNS)– Happening today at 1 PM Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel will make a joint announcement with several law enforcement officials across the state.
Those officials include:
  • Andrew Birge, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Michigan

  • Matthew Schneider, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan

  • Josh Hauxhurst, Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, F.B.I.

  • Michigan State Police Col. Joseph Casper
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#2
AG: Michigan governor, family were ‘made aware’ and moved as plotters tracked
MIDWEST
Ji Suk YiAaron Nolan
Posted: OCT 9, 2020 / 11:10 AM CDT Updated: OCT 9, 2020 / 11:11 AM CDT


LANSING, Mich. (NewsNation Now) — Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer was aware of the kidnapping plot against her, the state’s attorney general said Friday.

“Well, she’s certainly been apprised of everything that’s happening during the course of this investigation as it pertained to her,” said Dana Nessel, Attorney General of Michigan, said in an interview with NewsNation on Friday. “Of course, remembering that there’s a lot more to all of this than just the plans that involved the governor; there were plots to take over the state capitol, to execute people involved with law enforcement and other public officials.”


“The number one goal is to make sure that nobody gets injured and nobody gets harmed,” added Nessel, “but yes the governor has been made aware of anything pertinent to her and her family’s safety so her detail was always aware in our investigation.”


13 charged in plots against Michigan governor, police 


The governor and her family were at times moved around by authorities as law enforcement tracked the men who allegedly plotted for months to kidnap her, Nessel disclosed on “CBS This Morning.”

Authorities announced Thursday that they foiled a plot to kidnap Whitmer in a scheme that involved months of planning and even rehearsals to snatch her from her vacation home before the Nov. 3 elections. Whitmer’s first term as governor does not end until 2022.
Six men were charged in federal court with conspiring to kidnap the governor in reaction to what they viewed as her “uncontrolled power,” according to a federal complaint. Separately, seven others were charged under the state’s anti-terrorism laws for allegedly targeting police and the state Capitol.

Nessel said what’s next for them, “Well there are going to be preliminary hearings, calendar conferences have been scheduled. At this point I think the majority of the defendants have all been arraigned. They are certainly all in custody right now.  So the cases will move forward.  On the state level there will be probable cause conferences, preliminary exams scheduled, and the cases will be scheduled for trial.” 

The two groups trained together and planned “various acts of violence,” according to the state police.
Surveillance for the kidnapping plot took place in August and September, according to an FBI affidavit, and four of the men had planned to meet Wednesday to “make a payment on explosives and exchange tactical gear.”
“We thought it was time to move in before anybody lost their lives,” Nessel said.


[Image: AP20282637942397.jpg?w=900]FILE – In this March 5, 2020, file photo, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel speaks during a news conference in Lansing, Mich. Nessel has charged seven people with plotting to target law enforcement and attack state Capitol building. The announcement comes after six others were charged with plotting to kidnap Michigan Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer at her vacation home in reaction to what they viewed as her “uncontrolled power,” according to a criminal complaint unsealed Thursday , Oct. 8, 2020, in federal court. (AP Photo/David Eggert, File)


The FBI quoted one of the men accused of conspiring to kidnap Whitmer as saying she “has no checks and balances at all. She has uncontrolled power right now. All good things must come to an end.” That same man, Adam Fox, who was described as one of the leaders in the alleged plot, livestreamed a video to a private Facebook group “in which he complained about the judicial system and the state controlling the opening of gyms,” according to the federal complaint.


Whiter closed gyms in March but reopened them in some areas in June and statewide in September.
Authorities said the plots were stopped with the work of undercover agents and informants. The men were arrested Wednesday night. The six charged in federal court face up to life in prison if convicted. State terrorism charges the other seven men face carry a possible 20-year sentence.


Andrew Birge, the U.S. attorney in western Michigan, called the men “violent extremists.” They discussed detonating explosive devices — including under a highway bridge — to divert police from the area near Whitmer’s vacation home and Fox bought a Taser to use in the kidnapping, Birge said.


“All of us in Michigan can disagree about politics, but those disagreements should never, ever amount to violence. Violence has been prevented today,” Detroit U.S. Attorney Matthew Schneider said Thursday.
Nessel also had a warning for others, “I will tell you that certainly our task force, the Michigan State Police, The Department of Attorney General here, and of course the federal U.S. Attorneys and FBI, we continue to work together, we continue to monitor groups. Again not just in Michigan, but in several other states as well. I can say this, if people who are involved in this kind of activity think that they are not being watched and no one knows what they are doing and they can get away with these types of criminal acts, they should really think a little bit more carefully and consider the very serious charges that have been levied against these 13 individuals and it should serve as a deterrent to them.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

© 1998 - 2020 Nexstar Inc. | All Rights Reserved.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#3
GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (AP) — Members of anti-government paramilitary groups discussed kidnapping Virginia’s governor during a June meeting in Ohio, an FBI agent testified Tuesday during a court hearing in Michigan.

Special Agent Richard Trask was part of the investigation that led to six men being arrested and charged last week with plotting to kidnap Michigan’s Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. Seven other men face state terrorism charges.

Trask did not name Virginia’s Democratic governor, Ralph Northam, during his testimony in a federal courtroom in Grand Rapids. He said members of anti-government groups from multiple states attended the meeting.

“They discussed possible targets, taking a sitting governor, specifically issues with the governor of Michigan and Virginia based on the lockdown orders,” Trask said. He said the people at the meeting were unhappy with the governors’ response to the coronavirus pandemic.

Trask did not discuss further planning aimed at Northam.

The FBI did not brief Northam on any potential threat, according to a state official with knowledge of the governor’s briefings who was not authorized to speak publicly.

The June meeting was part of the FBI’s investigation of various anti-government groups, leading to last week’s stunning announcement that six men had been arrested for an alleged plot to kidnap Whitmer.

............

Comment: the plot thickens.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#4
(10-13-2020, 12:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Comment: the plot thickens.

I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#5
(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

Other than a few groups such as the Proud Boys, most of the militia are focused more on the Second Amendment than racism.  At least they are not traveling much to urban turf to instigate.  There could be some more groups who believe saving lives is an affront to freedom, but most don't see that as excusing violent means?

The AP just put out a piece on sunset towns or grey towns where groups of racists gather to exclude minorities.  Black people know which towns are problematic and avoid them, but white people remain ignorant enough of them to think they don't exist.  But such towns are a different problem.  They defend in their own way a particular area rather than moving where the minorities are more numerous.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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#6
(10-14-2020, 09:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

From the Gunpowder Plot to this one, most conspiracies lack the discipline to succeed at their objective. The Lincoln plot succeeded only in the tragic death of precisely the man to fully redeem a nation recently rifted; the only participant who seemed to know what he was doing was John Wilkes Booth. The rest of the participants were schmucks who failed in their appointed tasks. There have been coups, but many of those ended up replacing one tyrant with another or replacing a shaky democracy with a brutal new order (Bolshevik "revolution, overthrow of Salvador Allende). Of course, I wish that the July 20 plot had succeeded, and it came close because the conspirators generally knew what they were doing but also knew that one thing (death or isolation of Hitler) was necessary. Even then, the plotter charged with capturing the communication nexus for the Third Reich didn't cut the wires to Josef Goebbels' telephone. 

You have seen the images of the conspirators this time, and probably those who plotted against Abraham Lincoln. Do those people look like the sorts that you would want on an effort that requires extreme discipline and dedication? To be sure, appearance isn't everything.   


Quote:Other than a few groups such as the Proud Boys, most of the militia are focused more on the Second Amendment than racism.  At least they are not traveling much to urban turf to instigate.  There could be some more groups who believe saving lives is an affront to freedom, but most don't see that as excusing violent means?


Violence against lawful government is anti-democratic to the extent that the government has the hallmarks of legitimacy resulting from a free and fair election, action within the constraints of some Constitution, and adherence to the rule of law. If the system is the Third Reich, then of course a violent overthrow is all that can redeem the nation under the rule of a tyrant. The State of Michigan is obviously nothing like Nazi Germany.   

Quote:The AP just put out a piece on sunset towns or grey towns where groups of racists gather to exclude minorities.  Black people know which towns are problematic and avoid them, but white people remain ignorant enough of them to think they don't exist.  But such towns are a different problem.  They defend in their own way a particular area rather than moving where the minorities are more numerous.

Few white people recognize how insidious the people supposedly defending them from minorities (as David DuKKKe put it in one interview, some black man entering your white daughter's precious... enough said) are. Truth be told, immigrants are attracted to the places with the vibrant economies and not to communities of unmitigated failure.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#7
Controversial documentary-film maker Michael Moore chimes in:



The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#8
(10-14-2020, 09:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

Give the early Marxists credit for creating a revolution based on an uncoordinated cell structure that's the model for these sorts of things.  Credit the FBI for understanding that better than any investigative service in the world.  It's been put to both good and bad use, as anyone in the early civil right or antiwar movements can fully attest.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#9
(10-15-2020, 05:11 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(10-14-2020, 09:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:
(10-14-2020, 09:07 AM)David Horn Wrote: I wonder how many other of these militia groups have or had similar plans?  More important: were they coordinating or acting alone?

If they are smart, they are acting alone.  Their basic problem is how to get enough people to do something significant without attracting so many people that odds are there is an informant among them.  Thus far, they have not solved this problem well.  In plots that went as planned like OKC and the Boston Marathon bombing, they solved the problem by only a few people knowing there was a conspiracy going on before it happened.  In general, they have not.

Give the early Marxists credit for creating a revolution based on an uncoordinated cell structure that's the model for these sorts of things.  Credit the FBI for understanding that better than any investigative service in the world.  It's been put to both good and bad use, as anyone in the early civil right or antiwar movements can fully attest.

The "cells" were too large and thus inadequately disciplined. Some of those involved were excessively involved in testing their toys (that is, firearms), and that is one way to get attention from nosy neighbors.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#10
tails emerge. WXMI-TV. FoX-17, Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek:



Video, images reveal vivid details of plot to kidnap governor









[Image: ?url=http%3A%2F%2Fewscripps-brightspot.s...-16-1a.JPG]
[Image: ?url=http%3A%2F%2Fewscripps-brightspot.s...t-16-2.JPG]

By: Chris Bovia
Posted at 6:02 PM, Oct 16, 2020
 
and last updated 10:17 PM, Oct 16, 2020
MICHIGAN — FOX 17 has obtained chilling images and video from the US Attorney's office revealing details surrounding the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer.


Among the pages of documents are screenshots of text messages, crudely drawn maps, and videos outlining different scenarios and training exercises.


"Have one person go to her house. Knock on the door and when she answers it just cap her... " One screenshot reads. The videos threaten the governor and anyone attempting to stop the plot once it's in action.
Alleged conspirators discuss codes and protocol, demanding changes when one person alerted the group police had questioned a former room mate. Screenshots and pictures show them doing surveillance on properties belonging to Whitmer and plans to stop police from intervening.


The group identifies someone only known as "Grandpa" as the person making plans and cutting off future protests and contact when authorities were believed to be too close.



The language throughout the documents is graphic - as are some images in the videos. Plans include stashing med kits, buying get-away vehicles - or a "boog mobile", and practicing tactics from the basement of a store. Suspect Adam Fox was arrested from a store in Wyoming where he was staying in a basement.

The conspirators, only going by aliases in chats, describe their resentment of police and government officials, promising "...focused righteous anger backed by truth and morality..."


Anti-police conversations describe traffic stops as robberies, saying the police are throwing out the Constitution and planting evidence in preparation for future arrests.


"This is literally why those two cops were shot in Tuscon or Fresno... S*** is getting old." One conspirator wrote.
"Just wait it's gonna get worse" Another responded.


Still further in the conversation; "When it comes there will be no need to try and strike fear through presence. The fear will be manifested through bullets."


In a side conversation, two of the conspirators openly discuss killing a former cop in Maine for a woman whose uncle allegedly owed her inheritance money.


To date, 14 men have been charged with conspiracy to kidnap and kill Governor Whitmer, cases for 5 of which were approved to move forward by the courts.


Much more detail here. Transcripts and images.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#11
So why do conspiracies fail? Someone (if the conspiracy is large and hare-brained enough) decides that that the best way to save hi hide is to go to the legal authorities. Police ended up infiltrating this clique and got damning details (like people scouting the Governor's vacation house).
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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