Kyrsten Synema (D - Az) brings a cake into the Senate to downvote min. wage hike

[David Horn]

(04-19-2021, 10:10 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're making excuses for an OBVIOUS wrong doing again. The bulk of the Republican base ignored the danger associated with the pandemic (it's easy to do when you've been working and living through it the entire time) and voted in mass like they normally do on election day during a high point of the pandemic. I think it's very clear (damn near cut and dry) that the illegal gerrymandering of election laws that were done were done increase voter turnout that would mainly benefited the Democratic side. You shared a list of changes to the norm that pertained to people that normally wouldn't have been able to vote. People like people in jail and people from some other district and people without any proof of identity were given the right to vote and so forth.

The only people who really deserved special considerations and minor tweaks to normal voting procedures like additional absentee ballots and additional means to have them delivered were those who were at high risk stuck/isolated in nursing homes or those of high risk like yourself and others here isolating themselves at home. It doesn't matter now, the government that you and others are reliant upon for support  didn't adequately address it, blew it off  and more or less brushed it under the rug of wrong doing and called it good anyway and signed off on Biden becoming President. Well, guess what, the damage is done and fixing it ain't going to happen now. I'd like to see if you are able to look me in the eye and tell me that what went on with voting laws was legitimate and perfectly legal. I doubt you'd do it, if you're smart that is? I'm not sure how smart you are, you seem pretty dumb for a smart person. It's not a knock, it's just an observation that you normally wouldn't hear. You're right, a portion of America is changing as in deteriorating and  turning to shit these days. Oh well, it's a Democratic problem that Democrats are going to find themselves being forced to  pay for one way or another and find themselves being  held accountable for as far as they're actions  as well. Oh, then there's the matter of cheering them on and raising funds to bail them out and more or less allowing it to continue like they've been doing.

That's a lot of words to justify (or at least attempt to justify) making voting a privilege rather than a a right.  FYI, voting is the core right in every representative republic, if it even pretends to be democratic.  For some reason, your side of the polity has decided that this is wrong, rather than merely inconvenient. If that becomes the standard, and your hand-picked SCOTUS may assist in this, then we're just another Turkey or Hungary -- democratic in name only.

[David Horn]

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We aren't the Confederates. We're the Americans aka American Yankees of today. What's different about today? The modern day Southerns are mainly American Yankee's too.  Dude, you are on the side that clung to idea of Monarch's and Aristocrats, clung to slavery, clung to Jim Crow and clinging to inequality today. You're also still clinging to Marxism today. I assume that you and so many others are still clinging to them because there are jobs (some more lucrative than others) lots of funding and the possibility of fame and fortune too. Your problem with me is pretty simple. I'm older and wiser and not easily duped. Your problem is we understand what you want and understand the tactics that your trying to use with us that works so well with most everyone on the Democratic side who are mainly female or cream puff male or a clueless minority who has never seen America mad and free to terrorize them by passing racist looking/sounding laws and cracking down during their lifetime so far.

Without resorting to Einzige's characterization, you are definitely guilty of severely twisted logic.  The Confederates were and their modern intellectual kin still are members of the pro-aristocracy crowd, and certainly not Marxists.  I live among them.  They believe that they have a God-given right to a place of superiority due to their exceptional efforts (as they see them).  Many are pretty colorblind, and others not, but they believe they deserve their place in the pecking order.  The fact that most of the undeserving just happen to be poor, typically people of color is dismissed as irrelevant.  After all, they can get out there and improve themselves, just like they did.  Of course, most had a hand-up in more ways than one.

[Eric the Green]

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 12:30 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-18-2021, 07:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-18-2021, 01:13 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-18-2021, 11:09 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I see the COVID and systematic racism issues (including red violence and Jan 6) as rising to the crisis level.  Division of wealth?  Yes, some steps have been taken, but that is not the focus to the degree that it ought to be.  Where were the division of wealth protests last summer?  I suspect COVID and racism will no longer be distractions come the next awakening.  Division of wealth seems to be the next issue up.

But it is on the table now, and politicians know it. It is an existential threat, one among several. And completely tied up with racism and covid. It will be acted upon this 4T, or our nation sinks irretrievably into banana republic status. It's on peoples' minds already, especially young minds. And neo-liberalism is the cause of it. The cure is to overturn it. Biden is taking big strides toward doing it already.

Awakenings are more about culture and spirit than civics. I am not sympathetic to idea that solutions will come up in the next Awakening. That just means that our generations are abdicating their place in the action, especially boomers. Our time is not past. Our time is now. It is not a virtue for us to "get out of the way." Blue Boomers: Speak up!

Late Silent John Lewis spoke up, stood up and made good trouble right to the end of his life. We can do no less.

I just don't see it at the crisis level yet.  Strides might be taken.  I see with crisis wars becoming more rare, awakenings will take on a greater role.  We'll see.

The economic crisis and inequality crisis was at crisis level in 2008-2011. Protests and civil wars erupted worldwide from this. What we have are lingering problems from that, including the ongoing refugee crisis. So yes, strides are due, and are being taken. A reform decade has arrived, which is part of a 30-year cycle, which this time will coincide with a Crisis Climax-- and the House has already begun acting. 

I agree, Crisis total wars may become more rare; although we have 8 years left, and moments of potential war crisis in circa 2025 and 2028 still lie ahead. Still, 4Ts like ours, in which other kinds of crisis struggles occur, are likely to continue, so institutional actions will be needed such as reforms and revolutions. Much remains to be done in this 4T, with much resistance to overcome. Republicans still have too much power, and they have to be taken down, or we will slide into banana republic status in the USA. The Classic Xers (and Red Boomers and Red Millennials too), with their retrograde social worldviews, need to be politically defeated, or militarily defeated like the confederates were if they violently rebel in resistance to the reforms.

The main role of Awakenings remains a spiritual consciousness revival, so civic reforms are always secondary in 2Ts. People focus on culture. Ideals of how to reform society appear too in Awakenings, but it remains for 4Ts to bring them to greater institutional and civic fruition. In Awakenings, people focus on spiritual, religious and cultural remedies for our concerns, and discover how to be more alive and aware. Liberation is the theme. Awakeners won't be willing to give up those pursuits in order to make up for what we fail to do in Crisis periods.

We aren't the Confederates.

yup, you are.

Quote:Your problem is we understand what you want and understand the tactics that your trying to use with us that works so well with most everyone on the Democratic side who are mainly female or cream puff male or a clueless minority who has never seen America mad and free to terrorize them by passing racist looking/sounding laws and cracking down during their lifetime so far.

If your racist laws look like ducks, and quack like ducks, they are ducks. You therefore admit that you are a racist, reactionary confederate.

[Bob Butler 54]

(04-20-2021, 10:39 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We aren't the Confederates.

yup, you are.

The Republicans have been with the rural racist faction, though you have been more with your 'I have it backwards' redefinition of racism.  Still, the Classic Acirema is not mainline Republican.  Sorta related, but with a different idea of what racism is.  I would acquit you of fighting for slavery.  Thankfully, that is not your thing.

I am sort of against calling groups by another name especially from another time.  I can tell Stalin from FDR, Hitler from Ike.  I am most put out by people who pretend they can't.   A crisis generally resolves a problem it is centered on.  Slavery is long gone.  Racism is not.  That seems to be a crisis issue this time around.

[Einzige]

The Democrats are racist when they need to be, e.g.

https://jacobinmag.com/2016/11/bill-clin...ime-racism

[Classic-Xer]

(04-20-2021, 09:03 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 10:10 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're making excuses for an OBVIOUS wrong doing again. The bulk of the Republican base ignored the danger associated with the pandemic (it's easy to do when you've been working and living through it the entire time) and voted in mass like they normally do on election day during a high point of the pandemic. I think it's very clear (damn near cut and dry) that the illegal gerrymandering of election laws that were done were done increase voter turnout that would mainly benefited the Democratic side. You shared a list of changes to the norm that pertained to people that normally wouldn't have been able to vote. People like people in jail and people from some other district and people without any proof of identity were given the right to vote and so forth.

The only people who really deserved special considerations and minor tweaks to normal voting procedures like additional absentee ballots and additional means to have them delivered were those who were at high risk stuck/isolated in nursing homes or those of high risk like yourself and others here isolating themselves at home. It doesn't matter now, the government that you and others are reliant upon for support  didn't adequately address it, blew it off  and more or less brushed it under the rug of wrong doing and called it good anyway and signed off on Biden becoming President. Well, guess what, the damage is done and fixing it ain't going to happen now. I'd like to see if you are able to look me in the eye and tell me that what went on with voting laws was legitimate and perfectly legal. I doubt you'd do it, if you're smart that is? I'm not sure how smart you are, you seem pretty dumb for a smart person. It's not a knock, it's just an observation that you normally wouldn't hear. You're right, a portion of America is changing as in deteriorating and  turning to shit these days. Oh well, it's a Democratic problem that Democrats are going to find themselves being forced to  pay for one way or another and find themselves being  held accountable for as far as they're actions  as well. Oh, then there's the matter of cheering them on and raising funds to bail them out and more or less allowing it to continue like they've been doing.

That's a lot of words to justify (or at least attempt to justify) making voting a privilege rather than a a right.  FYI, voting is the core right in every representative republic, if it even pretends to be democratic.  For some reason, your side of the polity has decided that this is wrong, rather than merely inconvenient. If that becomes the standard, and your hand-picked SCOTUS may assist in this, then we're just another Turkey or Hungary -- democratic in name only.

Rights are privileges for the most part. My right to drive a car is a privilege. We have certain unalienable rights are more or less recognized, guaranteed and protected by the government and the citizens of our constitutional republic aka The United States of America. Your side for whatever reason seems to want to scrap that system and establish a permanent Democratic system which favors the Democratic party and it's population/recipients.

I'm going to ask you a question. how many Nazi supporters/believers aka indoctrinated Germans understood the reason why, American planes were bombing them around the clock without mercy and killing them without mercy and why Americans were willing to leave the last batch for a group of barbarians to finish off and do whatever it wants with for a while. I know you guys think you're special aka God's gifts and all, but in reality you are noting more than a bunch of dumb/foolish Nazi-ish - Bolshevik-ish - Marxist-ish supporters/believers to me at this point. So, what hold does the Democratic party have over you these days? Is it fear of losing your social security or fear of loosing healthcare or the fear of loosing a paycheck or the fear of all of us and all the rights that we still have as a large group of individuals? In short, when the Democrats and their Left Wing backers find themselves at odds or war with Americans of all kinds, you may be asking yourself and others why like some how or another you feel that you don't deserve.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-19-2021, 11:23 PM)Einzige Wrote: Congratulations! You're a fucking retard!

I wouldn't go so far as calling you a retard at this point. You've been indoctrinated and convinced that your worthless at this point but you aren't retarded as far I can tell based on what I've seen of you so far.

[pbrower2a]

Someone did develop a political model that distinguishes five general tendencies of political orientation as gradations with extremists most likely to act despotically and treat human life callously. Pinochet may be opposite a typical Commie dictator (let us say Fidel Castro) in ideology but like a commie dictator he is willing to murder anyone who gets in the way of his plutocratic ideal. 

This is a consensus model involving the discussion of several posters, and the latest manifestation. 

Quote:Captain Genet

I added some culture vultures, just for PBrower 

I'd place Tolstoy as well, but he would be very similar to Stapledon. Both wanted to apply Christian morality in a democratic, rational framework, though Stapledon's contemplation of death of our species and birth of future mankinds would be dismissed by Tolstoy as useless, as he focused on practical, down-to-Earth topics.

Some of us concluded that even if Ayn Rand had never inspired a political order to form as an expression of her social values, anything that imitated her strange vision in The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (everyone defers to the will of the super-rich, lest those people abandon the absolute need for them to dominate everything and take whatever they want) would be a nightmare of poverty and exploitation for anyone not among the economic elite. This distinguishes her from someone like Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan, who believe firmly in capitalist organization of society and for taking a huge share of the prosperity that others create through being overworked and underpaid but recognize that the common man needs some economic incentive to do the work, to not endure extreme poverty, and to have something to lose in the event of a proletarian revolution. Roussequ may never have killed anyone directly, but he suggested the climate of the Reign of Terror.
 
I could contrast the late Jerry Falwell to an Inquisitor in that although Falwell disparaged homosexuals and socialists, he considered killing people who disagreed with him "out of his pay-grade", so to speak. That of course, to him, is up to the Almighty. I can see Ayn Rand endorsing the deaths of millions from exposure, hunger, and exhaustion in the advancement of plutocracy, but I can hardly imagine Jerry Falwell doing so.   

Toward the center the political and cultural figures may differ greatly in ideological premises but recognize the need for essential compromises to achieve practical results that meld even opposing trends. This said, Obama is not the sort who would shed any tears about someone like Rajneesh going to prison for poisoning a buffet. We have seen the sparks fly between Merkel and Trump even if both are more on the pro-business axis, and it is safe to assume that although Walesa is a nationalist as was Hitler, Walesa has no problems with what Polish Communists did to Nazi perpetrators of genocide.      

In general, if one truly believes in "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness", one is safest to go toward the center, whose ideology is murkier and for whom pragmatism prevails. 

...There are people missing, and I have seen  other circles in which such people as Vladimir Lenin, Napoleon Bonaparte, Sigmund Freud, George Orwell, Donald Trump, Sir Winston Churchill, Simon Bolivar, Gregor and Otto Strasser (Nazis who wanted emphasis on the "socialist" pretensions of Nazism instead of compromises with the tycoons and big landowners), Mao Zedong, Mohandas Gandhi, and Robert Mugabe.  It might be difficult to place such lunatic leaders as Idi Amin or Ivan the Terrible.  Where does one put figures of antiquity such as Tutankhamun, Alexander,  Shi Huang Ti (brutal and repressive Chinese emperor that Mao admired), Moses, Zoroaster, Caesar, Lao-Tse, Gautama Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammad? 

...we dodged real horror with Donald Trump. Most of the Bad Guys of history are cruel and insensitive people, and they may take time before they do real horror. Stalin had a secret police and a killing apparatus in place when he took power; Hitler developed such a nightmare. That Donald Trump could egg people on to do violence against Congress suggests grave insensitivity toward helpless people and his vituperation against the well-educated. We may have spared ourselves a secret police and concentration camps... but for those who regret that such did not happen, we still have economic elites who cling to the attitudes that Ayn Rand held toward anyone not already rich and powerful. Unlike Reagan or Thatcher, she holds little hope for small business startups meeting basic human needs without accreting the sort of power that one associates with tycoons, big landowners, and executives.
I do not know where I would place myself. I respect tradition as a fallback when things go haywire, but I can't quite place which tradition is definitively right. We are far better off with competitive enterprise than with giant entities who buy off smart people with little talent and buy politicians like Ron Johnson. Like the theocrats I see vice as human degradation instead of privilege.  I dissent with people who think that life is all about the money, as the most extreme exemplars of that attitude are gangsters such as one finds in the Sicilian and Neapolitan Mafia, the Russian Mafiya, the Chinese Triads, the Yakuza, and the leaders of Latin-American drug cartels.

Note well: part of the American tradition is the defense of old Constitutional norms.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-20-2021, 10:39 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We aren't the Confederates.

yup, you are.



If your racist laws look like ducks, and quack like ducks, they are ducks. You therefore admit that you are a racist, reactionary confederate.

In your mind we are but in reality we're not the Confederates. I'm sure you could/can convince a clueless Democratic supporter or minority of anything these days. After all, the clueless are clueless and easy to convince. Hell, I bet you could even convince them that American Law enforcement is racist and even convince them that it"s fascist and convince them that it's their enemy and convince to get ride of it too. Dude, we freed the slaves from their Democratic owners over a hundred years ago and the Democratic owners of today are still clinging to their slave ancestors today. Personally speaking, I don't care if the Democratic side has police or not or it's own army or not at this point and I don't really care what happens to it in the future either. There was a time when I considered voting Democratic but that was a long time ago and I no longer consider doing it these days which has been beneficial to the Republican party or GOP as we say.

[Eric the Green]

(04-20-2021, 04:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 10:39 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We aren't the Confederates.

yup, you are.



If your racist laws look like ducks, and quack like ducks, they are ducks. You therefore admit that you are a racist, reactionary confederate.

In your mind we are but in reality we're not the Confederates. I'm sure you could/can convince a clueless Democratic supporter or minority of anything these days. After all, the clueless are clueless and easy to convince. Hell, I bet you could even convince them that American Law enforcement is racist and even convince them that it"s fascist and convince them that it's their enemy and convince to get rid of it too. Dude, we freed the slaves from their Democratic owners over a hundred years ago and the Democratic owners of today are still clinging to their slave ancestors today. Personally speaking, I don't care if the Democratic side has police or not or it's own army or not at this point and I don't really care what happens to it in the future either. There was a time when I considered voting Democratic but that was a long time ago and I no longer consider doing it these days which has been beneficial to the Republican party or GOP as we say.

And as I never say.

No, the two major Parties have totally switched roles. You are ignorant of American history, so you don't know that. But 160 years ago, you confederates would have been Democrats, and those who freed the slaves were Republicans. Now, confederates like you are Republicans and those who seek to free the people are Democrats. 

My grandfather from Indiana was a distant relative of Abraham Lincoln and was an enthusiastic Republican. His son, my Dad, grew up in the Depression era, and when he grew up and came to CA he became a Democrat. My grandfather from Oklahoma was a Democrat, but like many white southerners he switched to Republican; but his daughter, my Mom, came to CA with my Dad and became a Democrat. Party labels change their meaning through history.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-20-2021, 01:20 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 10:39 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We aren't the Confederates.

yup, you are.

The Republicans have been with the rural racist faction, though you have been more with your 'I have it backwards' redefinition of racism.  Still, the Classic Acirema is not mainline Republican.  Sorta related, but with a different idea of what racism is.  I would acquit you of fighting for slavery.  Thankfully, that is not your thing.

I am sort of against calling groups by another name especially from another time.  I can tell Stalin from FDR, Hitler from Ike.  I am most put out by people who pretend they can't.   A crisis generally resolves a problem it is centered on.  Slavery is long gone.  Racism is not.  That seems to be a crisis issue this time around.

What's not  racism these days? Racism has been blown out of proportion and misconstrued lately. Is not liking a racist black person racist these days? Is confronting a black jerk or some black asshole racist too? Is calling a black person a bad name racist too? You better start sorting out the differences between normal human behavior related to different personalities or behavior and racism or you're going to have another big mess to go along with the other big messes that are on your plate to solve these days.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-20-2021, 07:47 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 04:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 10:39 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We aren't the Confederates.

yup, you are.



If your racist laws look like ducks, and quack like ducks, they are ducks. You therefore admit that you are a racist, reactionary confederate.

In your mind we are but in reality we're not the Confederates. I'm sure you could/can convince a clueless Democratic supporter or minority of anything these days. After all, the clueless are clueless and easy to convince. Hell, I bet you could even convince them that American Law enforcement is racist and even convince them that it"s fascist and convince them that it's their enemy and convince to get rid of it too. Dude, we freed the slaves from their Democratic owners over a hundred years ago and the Democratic owners of today are still clinging to their slave ancestors today. Personally speaking, I don't care if the Democratic side has police or not or it's own army or not at this point and I don't really care what happens to it in the future either. There was a time when I considered voting Democratic but that was a long time ago and I no longer consider doing it these days which has been beneficial to the Republican party or GOP as we say.

And as I never say.

No, the two major Parties have totally switched roles. You are ignorant of American history, so you don't know that. But 160 years ago, you confederates would have been Democrats, and those who freed the slaves were Republicans. Now, confederates like you are Republicans and those who seek to free the people are Democrats. 

My grandfather from Indiana was a distant relative of Abraham Lincoln and was an enthusiastic Republican. His son, my Dad, grew up in the Depression era, and when he grew up and came to CA he became a Democrat. My grandfather from Oklahoma was a Democrat, but like many white southerners he switched to Republican; but his daughter, my Mom, came to CA with my Dad and became a Democrat. Party labels change their meaning through history.

Are you sure that I'm not familiar with American history? I am a bit of a American history buff so to speak. A 160 years ago, we would have been killing Democratic supporters by the thousands on battlefields and bringing a Democratic region clinging to slavery to it knee's. As far as I can see, the Democratic party is still clinging to the ancestors of their former slaves.  It looks like we'll be doing it again (repeating history), it seems to be the direction that we are heading these days.

[pbrower2a]

(04-20-2021, 11:00 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 07:47 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 04:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 10:39 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 11:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We aren't the Confederates.

yup, you are.



If your racist laws look like ducks, and quack like ducks, they are ducks. You therefore admit that you are a racist, reactionary confederate.

In your mind we are but in reality we're not the Confederates. I'm sure you could/can convince a clueless Democratic supporter or minority of anything these days. After all, the clueless are clueless and easy to convince. Hell, I bet you could even convince them that American Law enforcement is racist and even convince them that it"s fascist and convince them that it's their enemy and convince to get rid of it too. Dude, we freed the slaves from their Democratic owners over a hundred years ago and the Democratic owners of today are still clinging to their slave ancestors today. Personally speaking, I don't care if the Democratic side has police or not or it's own army or not at this point and I don't really care what happens to it in the future either. There was a time when I considered voting Democratic but that was a long time ago and I no longer consider doing it these days which has been beneficial to the Republican party or GOP as we say.

And as I never say.

No, the two major Parties have totally switched roles. You are ignorant of American history, so you don't know that. But 160 years ago, you confederates would have been Democrats, and those who freed the slaves were Republicans. Now, confederates like you are Republicans and those who seek to free the people are Democrats. 

My grandfather from Indiana was a distant relative of Abraham Lincoln and was an enthusiastic Republican. His son, my Dad, grew up in the Depression era, and when he grew up and came to CA he became a Democrat. My grandfather from Oklahoma was a Democrat, but like many white southerners he switched to Republican; but his daughter, my Mom, came to CA with my Dad and became a Democrat. Party labels change their meaning through history.

Are you sure that I'm not familiar with American history? I am a bit of a American history buff so to speak. A 160 years ago, we would have been killing Democratic supporters by the thousands on battlefields and bringing a Democratic region clinging to slavery to it knee's. As far as I can see, the Democratic party is still clinging to the ancestors of their former slaves.  It looks like we'll be doing it again (repeating history), it seems to be the direction that we are heading these days.

You misrepresent American history badly enough that I suspect malignancy.

Just check the Eisenhower-Obama overlay map to see how the Parties have changed hands. Democrats used to have the Southern white agrarian racists locked down as a reliable constituency. That is over. Oh, is that over! Eisenhower did extremely well among college graduates, and so did Obama.  

If Democrats have a connection to the old slave-owning planters then it is through those planters' ill-favored descendants: their slaves and the descendants of those slaves. There was much sowing of wild oats in the days of slavery, and when some comparatively-pale slave child appeared, then the slave-owner's family typically responded with 

"Who, me? Impossible. I am a good family man. That must have been some lonely merchant or other traveler."

[David Horn]

(04-20-2021, 03:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Rights are privileges for the most part. My right to drive a car is a privilege. We have certain unalienable rights are more or less recognized, guaranteed and protected by the government and the citizens of our constitutional republic aka The United States of America. Your side for whatever reason seems to want to scrap that system and establish a permanent Democratic system which favors the Democratic party and it's population/recipients.

You have no right to drive a car. Where did that come from?  On the other hand, we certainly do have rights -- many are enumerated in the Constitution. Nooe have any merit if the right to vote ceases to be a right, and becomes some sort of fungible value in the culture wars.  If the right to vote impacts your party or POV, then you can fight to make your point in the marketplace of ideas, change your mind or just be grumpy.  Degrading the right to vote should never be an option.

C-Xer Wrote:I'm going to ask you a question. how many Nazi supporters/believers aka indoctrinated Germans understood the reason why, American planes were bombing them around the clock without mercy and killing them without mercy and why Americans were willing to leave the last batch for a group of barbarians to finish off and do whatever it wants with for a while. I know you guys think you're special aka God's gifts and all, but in reality you are noting more than a bunch of dumb/foolish Nazi-ish - Bolshevik-ish - Marxist-ish supporters/believers to me at this point. So, what hold does the Democratic party have over you these days? Is it fear of losing your social security or fear of loosing healthcare or the fear of loosing a paycheck or the fear of all of us and all the rights that we still have as a large group of individuals? In short, when the Democrats and their Left Wing backers find themselves at odds or war with Americans of all kinds, you may be asking yourself and others why like some how or another you feel that you don't deserve.

You can believe whatever you chose.  You can't enforce that belief on others who disagree any more than I can enforce my beliefs on you.  If you win elections, you can govern -- well or badly.  If you lose, you can oppose but not impede the governance granted to your opponents.  That's the system.  If you find that is in some way reminiscent of Nazis and Bolsheviks, you need to do a little studying -- maybe a lot!

[David Horn]

(04-20-2021, 04:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: In your mind we are but in reality we're not the Confederates. I'm sure you could/can convince a clueless Democratic supporter or minority of anything these days. After all, the clueless are clueless and easy to convince. Hell, I bet you could even convince them that American Law enforcement is racist and even convince them that it's fascist and convince them that it's their enemy and convince to get ride of it  too. Dude, we freed the slaves from their Democratic owners over a hundred years ago and the Democratic owners of today are still clinging to their slave ancestors today. Personally speaking, I don't care if the Democratic side has police or not or it's own army or not at this point and I don't really care what happens to it in the future either. There was a time when I considered voting Democratic but that was a long time ago and I no longer consider doing it these days which has been beneficial to the Republican party or GOP as we say.

FYI, the parties switched sides in the mid 1960s I was there when it happened. The old Dixiecrats became Republicans, and the GOP embraced them as brothers. It was the direct result of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and '68, and the Voting Rights Acts of 1965, all passed by reluctant Democrats and Republicans, but passed nonetheless.

It was a Southerner (LBJ) that lead the change, and predicted it would end the Democrats chances of being elected in the South for a generation. He was off by two generations, but the tide is finally turning. Ask African-Americans which party represents them, and 99% will pick the Democrats without missing a beat. The same is rapidly becoming true of whites as well. Who will be left for the GOP to rally to its cause?

[David Horn]

(04-20-2021, 09:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What's not  racism these days? Racism has been blown out of proportion and misconstrued lately. Is not liking a racist black person racist these days? Is confronting a black jerk or some black asshole racist too? Is calling a black person a bad name racist too? You better start sorting out the differences between normal human behavior related to different personalities or behavior and racism or you're going to have another big mess to go along with the other big messes that are on your plate to solve these days.

Jerks are jerks, totally independent of race, national origin, or gender identity. Feel free to call anyone out on being jerks, but not for being who they are as people.

[pbrower2a]

(04-21-2021, 09:02 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 04:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: In your mind we are but in reality we're not the Confederates. I'm sure you could/can convince a clueless Democratic supporter or minority of anything these days. After all, the clueless are clueless and easy to convince. Hell, I bet you could even convince them that American Law enforcement is racist and even convince them that it's fascist and convince them that it's their enemy and convince to get ride of it  too. Dude, we freed the slaves from their Democratic owners over a hundred years ago and the Democratic owners of today are still clinging to their slave ancestors today. Personally speaking, I don't care if the Democratic side has police or not or it's own army or not at this point and I don't really care what happens to it in the future either. There was a time when I considered voting Democratic but that was a long time ago and I no longer consider doing it these days which has been beneficial to the Republican party or GOP as we say.

FYI, the parties switched sides in the mid 1960s  I was there when it happened. The old Dixiecrats became Republicans, and the GOP embraced them as brothers.  It was the direct result of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and '68, and the Voting Rights Acts of 1965, all passed by reluctant Democrats and Republicans, but passed nonetheless.

It was a Southerner (LBJ) that lead the change, and predicted it would end the Democrats chances of being elected in the South for a generation.  He was off by two generations, but the tide is finally turning.  Ask African-Americans which party represents them, and 99% will pick the Democrats without missing a beat. The same is rapidly becoming true of whites as well.  Who will be left for the GOP to rally to its cause?

Even at that, LBJ was from a Southern state, but from a part of the state (including Austin and San Antonio) that were never core Southern. Those two cities were more like Southern California at the time (different as Austin and San Antonio are, they are still so) than than like what I mock as "Kukluxistan" -- the true, pure Jim Crow South at the time. LBJ's Texas had few blacks, and Mexican-Americans were generally treated as white people if they had money to spend and spoke good English. LBJ was a Southwesterner and not a Southeasterner. 

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo defined Mexican-Americans as legally white. Texas had an anti-miscegenation statute, but Mexican-Americans were prohibited, like unambiguously white people, from marrying black people. "Whites only" signs would have been embarrassing in those parts of Texas with large numbers of Mexican-Americans.

[Classic-Xer]

(04-21-2021, 05:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: You misrepresent American history badly enough that I suspect malignancy.

Just check the Eisenhower-Obama overlay map to see how the Parties have changed hands. Democrats used to have the Southern white agrarian racists locked down as a reliable constituency. That is over. Oh, is that over! Eisenhower did extremely well among college graduates, and so did Obama.  

If Democrats have a connection to the old slave-owning planters then it is through those planters' ill-favored descendants: their slaves and the descendants of those slaves. There was much sowing of wild oats in the days of slavery, and when some comparatively-pale slave child appeared, then the slave-owner's family typically responded with 

"Who, me? Impossible. I am a good family man. That must have been some lonely merchant or other traveler."

American history began with a series of tax revolts. The American Revolutionary War triggered by an attempt by the British to seize an arsenal and disarm the American population. Well, here we are again poised to repeat history. The only difference is, the British of the time are Democrats of today. As far as the Confederacy and it's connection to the Democratic party, the connection existed and still exists today. Joe Biden is proof of it. The Democratic party of today still has a hold over the bulk of them (the descendants of the slaves) today. The hold that the Democratic party has is more psychological and financial than physical like it was back then. The plantations are no longer functional, apparent or visible these days. The old plantations have been replaced by one large government institution aka the welfare state which the party has control over these days. In short, the Democratic blacks aren't free or at least not as free as they should be by now, The Democratic party still has a hold over most of them. Like you, the Democratic blacks have no other choice but to go along with the Democratic party and whatever they do and whatever trouble or bind they get you in at this point. It's kind of sad but it is what it is and there's no turning back.

[Eric the Green]

(04-21-2021, 02:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-21-2021, 05:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: You misrepresent American history badly enough that I suspect malignancy.

Just check the Eisenhower-Obama overlay map to see how the Parties have changed hands. Democrats used to have the Southern white agrarian racists locked down as a reliable constituency. That is over. Oh, is that over! Eisenhower did extremely well among college graduates, and so did Obama.  

If Democrats have a connection to the old slave-owning planters then it is through those planters' ill-favored descendants: their slaves and the descendants of those slaves. There was much sowing of wild oats in the days of slavery, and when some comparatively-pale slave child appeared, then the slave-owner's family typically responded with 

"Who, me? Impossible. I am a good family man. That must have been some lonely merchant or other traveler."

American history began with a serious of tax revolts and the American Revolutionary war began with an attempt by the British to seize an arsenal and disarm the American population. Well, here we are again. The only difference is, the British of the time are the Democrats of today. As far as the Confederacy and it's connection to the Democratic party, the connection still exists today. It's slaves black then aren't slaves today. They may as well be, but they aren't today. The Democratic party of today still has a hold over the bulk of them (the descendants of the slaves) today. The hold the Democrats have is more psychological than physical and the plantations are no longer functional, apparent or visible these days. In short, the Democratic blacks aren't free or not as free as they should be because the Democratic party still has a hold over most of them. Like you, the Democratic blacks have no other choice but to going along with the Democratic party and whatever they do and whatever trouble or bind they get you in at this point. It's kind of sad but it is what it is and there's no turning back.

The British were not able to seize an arsenal, because the Yankees had dispersed their arms to a number of different locations, so the British had to do a search and destroy mission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of...nd_Concord

Those right-wing rebel militias today who are getting armed and stockpiling weapons are preparing for civil war. That is the only time that people need weapons. In that sense yes, we are the British. But Classic Xer, this, your rebellion, is retrograde; confederate. Our 4T is the Cold Civil War turning. We are the Union, the blue, and the gray has become the red. The blacks could not vote during the civil war yet, so they were not Democrats, but the confederates were-- although the Party was split, which allowed Lincoln to win. The confederate candidate, John Breckinridge, had the lowest horoscope score for a presidential candidate ever recorded, and he was later tried as a traitor. After blacks could vote, they joined the Republican Party which had freed them.

The blacks today are Democrats because over the last saeculum that Party has supported civil rights and government relief and programs to eliminate poverty, which benefit all races, but which cost some taxes from rich people and from racists like Classic Xer who resent paying them. They have joined and now support the Republican Party, which had already become the Party of the wealthy and big business in the years following the civil war, and continues to be today. And since the sixties, it has become the Party of the racists too.

[Eric the Green]

(04-20-2021, 03:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-20-2021, 09:03 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-19-2021, 10:10 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You're making excuses for an OBVIOUS wrong doing again. The bulk of the Republican base ignored the danger associated with the pandemic (it's easy to do when you've been working and living through it the entire time) and voted in mass like they normally do on election day during a high point of the pandemic. I think it's very clear (damn near cut and dry) that the illegal gerrymandering of election laws that were done were done increase voter turnout that would mainly benefited the Democratic side. You shared a list of changes to the norm that pertained to people that normally wouldn't have been able to vote. People like people in jail and people from some other district and people without any proof of identity were given the right to vote and so forth.

The only people who really deserved special considerations and minor tweaks to normal voting procedures like additional absentee ballots and additional means to have them delivered were those who were at high risk stuck/isolated in nursing homes or those of high risk like yourself and others here isolating themselves at home. It doesn't matter now, the government that you and others are reliant upon for support  didn't adequately address it, blew it off  and more or less brushed it under the rug of wrong doing and called it good anyway and signed off on Biden becoming President. Well, guess what, the damage is done and fixing it ain't going to happen now. I'd like to see if you are able to look me in the eye and tell me that what went on with voting laws was legitimate and perfectly legal. I doubt you'd do it, if you're smart that is? I'm not sure how smart you are, you seem pretty dumb for a smart person. It's not a knock, it's just an observation that you normally wouldn't hear. You're right, a portion of America is changing as in deteriorating and  turning to shit these days. Oh well, it's a Democratic problem that Democrats are going to find themselves being forced to  pay for one way or another and find themselves being  held accountable for as far as they're actions  as well. Oh, then there's the matter of cheering them on and raising funds to bail them out and more or less allowing it to continue like they've been doing.

That's a lot of words to justify (or at least attempt to justify) making voting a privilege rather than a a right.  FYI, voting is the core right in every representative republic, if it even pretends to be democratic.  For some reason, your side of the polity has decided that this is wrong, rather than merely inconvenient. If that becomes the standard, and your hand-picked SCOTUS may assist in this, then we're just another Turkey or Hungary -- democratic in name only.

Rights are privileges for the most part. My right to drive a car is a privilege. We have certain unalienable rights are more or less recognized, guaranteed and protected by the government and the citizens of our constitutional republic aka The United States of America. Your side for whatever reason seems to want to scrap that system and establish a permanent Democratic system which favors the Democratic party and it's population/recipients.

I'm going to ask you a question. how many Nazi supporters/believers aka indoctrinated Germans understood the reason why, American planes were bombing them around the clock without mercy and killing them without mercy and why Americans were willing to leave the last batch for a group of barbarians to finish off and do whatever it wants with for a while. I know you guys think you're special aka God's gifts and all, but in reality you are noting more than a bunch of dumb/foolish Nazi-ish - Bolshevik-ish - Marxist-ish supporters/believers to me at this point. So, what hold does the Democratic party have over you these days? Is it fear of losing your social security or fear of loosing healthcare or the fear of loosing a paycheck or the fear of all of us and all the rights that we still have as a large group of individuals? In short, when the Democrats and their Left Wing backers find themselves at odds or war with Americans of all kinds, you may be asking yourself and others why like some how or another you feel that you don't deserve.

The only "right" that you are interested in is the "right" of "the people" to keep and bear military weapons. To me, that is not a "right" at all and ought to be prohibited. Unless you establish your own alternative state and need those weapons for your war, just like the Yankees and Confederates did.

Today, college graduates, which used to favor Republicans, now favor Democrats by 13 points, and they are the most reliable voters among levels of education. That ought to give you a clue about what "hold" the Democrats have over us. The difference is that well-educated voters are well-informed. Unlike you, we are able to see the issues that matter and understand what needs to be done about them. You guys are only interested in your identity and your weapons.