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(02-26-2018, 12:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: (02-25-2018, 06:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-25-2018, 10:16 AM)David Horn Wrote: I don't think the culture of the late 18th century and red culture today resemble each other at all. The only link: red culture idealizes: "the Founders" in a way that makes them unrecognizably rigid and absolutist. The red overlay is closer to a nihilistic version of libertarianism. They celebrate "freedom", as long as it's THEIR freedom: guns, yes; prayer, yes; abortion, no (actually, hell no), and patriotism as they define it ... and only as they define it. I live deep in Red America. I have friends that hold these views. They feel free to tell me how I should think, but act hurt and angry if their values are questioned even a little. It's your value-lock problem on steroids.
And let's understand: this is not an issue of "both sides do it", even though both sides rally to their respective flags. This is "We're right and you are evil" compared to "We don't agree".
I have the same freedom's as you and them. We all have those freedoms: guns, prayer and speech (patriotism being expressed as we see it and define it as individuals). Whether one chooses (another freedom/right available to all of us) to use them or not is another matter relating to all of us as individuals. You don't think prayer or religion is important and you don't believe guns are still necessary these days as far as citizens are concerned and you're ok with the government getting rid of them. What term do we use to describe people who don't seem to care about anyone else but themselves or the views of anyone else other than their own? I can think of a couple and a couple of systems too. I see one of them in your post (nihilist).
I don't have the freedom to kill an unwanted fetus like the women do now and neither do you. Abortion is a woman's right that we don't share because we're men and it's illegal for men to kill unwanted fetus's without the woman's consent. I don't care what happens to abortion, I view abortion as a woman's issue for women to decide on their own via democratically or a legal issues addressed (continued or ended in the courts) in the courts. Being I don't really care about it or place a value on it or care about whether the ones who do it end up in hell or not and so forth, I don't recognize it as an important issue and vote Republican. People killing people for their interest is still pretty common. Like I've said, we don't live in heaven and I don't vote or make decisions as if we do.
From your response, you are not a resident of Red America ... not really. Do you feel the need to defend actions you wouldn't take or ideas you don't hold? I don't think so. FWIW, I think you fit much better in the pre-2015 GOP than you do today. If the recent CPAC convention is any indication, the GOP is eating their own. I'm baffled by the process, but I'm not a Republican. Maybe you can explain.
I'm not a resident of Red America. I think I've made ( I've been able make that very clear) that very clear to many people over the years. The majority of the Republican voters aren't Republicans (Republican loyalists). The majority are Conservatives of some some sort or another like me who tend to vote Republican.
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(02-26-2018, 04:18 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: One side has lost it's mind, this commentator says.
I thought the kid was a student. He seemed more interested in attracting attention for himself than he was grieving for he loss of important people in his life (teachers and classmates). I have no doubt that he's an opportunist looking to make a name for himself. I could see it in his eyes and I could see it in his conduct and his attitude at the time he was being interviewed/sharing his story on the day (a few hours later) of shooting.
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(02-27-2018, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 02:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Reds are VERY interested in making decisions for blues. You decide that we should be saddled with guns, and that we can't stop them from being used by idiots. You decide that corporations should continue to destroy our environment and destroy our climate and rip off workers and consumers. You decide that we should have cutbacks in the entitlement programs that we paid for, and that rich folks shouldn't pay hardly any taxes, leaving it all for our grandkids.. You decide that we should have lousy free-enterprise health care. You decided that gamblers and speculators should have the "freedom" to drive up our home prices and ruin our economy without any supervision. A lot of you decide that we should not teach evolution in schools. You reds have decided all these things and more for us. You decided that the USA should stay mired in an 18th century world. Don't tell me you don't decide things for us. It is you guys that are ruining the system with your stubborn regressive fanaticism.
I don't care about your gun rights. I would rather that young people live than have you reds have guns to kill burglars who might steal your laptop or your jewelry. I don't care that much about your stuff. It's not worth risking even YOUR life for.
Quote:Do you think the young blue dude (clueless blues) knows that the assault rifle ban was in place during Columbine? Did the national ban of assault rifles stop the massacre that took place at Columbine or the big shootout that took place between a couple of bank robbers and the police in the streets of LA? A shootout where the cops were out gunned because the criminals where more technologically advanced ( illegal AK-47's and body armor) than the cops and the civilians who the cops were doing their best to protect with their feeble standard issue pistols and shotguns. I don't think he or the clueless blues know this or take either of them into account prior to delivering arguments.
The young blue guy (who says he is non-partisan and believes in the Second Amendment, unlike me) knows a lot more than the idiots you guys have elected who refuse to act on gun control. The assault weapons ban reduced mass shootings and gun violence, and it increased when the ban was senselessly lifted. Bans work everywhere, but in a country already awash with guns, no laws can stop all massacres now. I say if a gun law can save a few lives, it is much more worthwhile than if some hunter can't shoot a deer or some maniac can't shoot up a school or office somewhere. Or if some of the robbers can't get an illegal AK-47 to shoot some cops more easily. Ask the cops if they want the robbers to have permission to get AR-15s and see what they tell ya.
Quote:How does it feel taking flack from the left and the right? Do you stand a chance at over coming two older and more knowledgeable people? My issue with blues is the caliber of the primary people who make up the bulk of their target audiences. I'm not a fan of idiots. I don't cater to the feeling of idiots. I don't market idiots. I don't employ idiots. I don't get into bed with idiots. I don't make deals with idiots. I don't rely upon idiots or invest in idiots. I don't take orders from idiots. Unfortunately, you earned you way into the idiot column a long time ago. I don't own stock in blue America. I'm not associated with poverty. I'm not associated with welfare. I have no interest in Socialism or Communism or Fascism or Monarchy's or any old system associated with Europe.
You and the reds in general are interested in taking us back to 18th century libertarianism where greedy businessmen have full permission to exploit and destroy our country. I am not a fan of idiots either, which is why sometimes I lose patience with you red guys. Some of you are worse than others. I don't consider you a troll like the nutjobs who made snide comments on this fun little vacation video. At least I hope you are not. A lot of you have good qualities as people. But you are holding our country back, and leaving it in danger from a pack of wild animals called greedy businessmen and unhinged fanatics. We need to move ahead to a new system and a new society where people know themselves and the divine presence, and have compassion enough to design a society that works for the most people most of the time. I have faith that it can be done, if the Awakening returns and people wake up to the potential to be creative that lies within all of us.
I have no interest in making your decisions or ruling blue America. I've given you some advice. I've identified certain lines that blues should never cross. I've given you my opinions of opinions of others that you've posted or the person or the situation that blues are using to advance their interests like the kid and the school shooting that they're using now. I have never expressed an interest in taking away any of your freedoms or Constitutional rights. What's up with blues? Are blues running out of worth while adults who are willing to take the shots that he seems to be taking for them (you)?
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(02-28-2018, 10:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-27-2018, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 02:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Reds are VERY interested in making decisions for blues. You decide that we should be saddled with guns, and that we can't stop them from being used by idiots. You decide that corporations should continue to destroy our environment and destroy our climate and rip off workers and consumers. You decide that we should have cutbacks in the entitlement programs that we paid for, and that rich folks shouldn't pay hardly any taxes, leaving it all for our grandkids.. You decide that we should have lousy free-enterprise health care. You decided that gamblers and speculators should have the "freedom" to drive up our home prices and ruin our economy without any supervision. A lot of you decide that we should not teach evolution in schools. You reds have decided all these things and more for us. You decided that the USA should stay mired in an 18th century world. Don't tell me you don't decide things for us. It is you guys that are ruining the system with your stubborn regressive fanaticism.
I don't care about your gun rights. I would rather that young people live than have you reds have guns to kill burglars who might steal your laptop or your jewelry. I don't care that much about your stuff. It's not worth risking even YOUR life for.
Quote:Do you think the young blue dude (clueless blues) knows that the assault rifle ban was in place during Columbine? Did the national ban of assault rifles stop the massacre that took place at Columbine or the big shootout that took place between a couple of bank robbers and the police in the streets of LA? A shootout where the cops were out gunned because the criminals where more technologically advanced ( illegal AK-47's and body armor) than the cops and the civilians who the cops were doing their best to protect with their feeble standard issue pistols and shotguns. I don't think he or the clueless blues know this or take either of them into account prior to delivering arguments.
The young blue guy (who says he is non-partisan and believes in the Second Amendment, unlike me) knows a lot more than the idiots you guys have elected who refuse to act on gun control. The assault weapons ban reduced mass shootings and gun violence, and it increased when the ban was senselessly lifted. Bans work everywhere, but in a country already awash with guns, no laws can stop all massacres now. I say if a gun law can save a few lives, it is much more worthwhile than if some hunter can't shoot a deer or some maniac can't shoot up a school or office somewhere. Or if some of the robbers can't get an illegal AK-47 to shoot some cops more easily. Ask the cops if they want the robbers to have permission to get AR-15s and see what they tell ya.
Quote:How does it feel taking flack from the left and the right? Do you stand a chance at over coming two older and more knowledgeable people? My issue with blues is the caliber of the primary people who make up the bulk of their target audiences. I'm not a fan of idiots. I don't cater to the feeling of idiots. I don't market idiots. I don't employ idiots. I don't get into bed with idiots. I don't make deals with idiots. I don't rely upon idiots or invest in idiots. I don't take orders from idiots. Unfortunately, you earned you way into the idiot column a long time ago. I don't own stock in blue America. I'm not associated with poverty. I'm not associated with welfare. I have no interest in Socialism or Communism or Fascism or Monarchy's or any old system associated with Europe.
You and the reds in general are interested in taking us back to 18th century libertarianism where greedy businessmen have full permission to exploit and destroy our country. I am not a fan of idiots either, which is why sometimes I lose patience with you red guys. Some of you are worse than others. I don't consider you a troll like the nutjobs who made snide comments on this fun little vacation video. At least I hope you are not. A lot of you have good qualities as people. But you are holding our country back, and leaving it in danger from a pack of wild animals called greedy businessmen and unhinged fanatics. We need to move ahead to a new system and a new society where people know themselves and the divine presence, and have compassion enough to design a society that works for the most people most of the time. I have faith that it can be done, if the Awakening returns and people wake up to the potential to be creative that lies within all of us.
I have no interest in making your decisions or ruling blue America. I've given you some advice. I've identified certain lines that blues should never cross. I've given you my opinions of opinions of others that you've posted or the person or the situation that blues are using to advance their interests like the kid and the school shooting that they're using now. I have never expressed an interest in taking away any of your freedoms or Constitutional rights. What's up with blues? Are blues running out of worth while adults who are willing to take the shots that he seems to be taking for them (you)?
Maybe the last sentence is true; we are running out of blue adults who can seem to make any dent in the stuck opinions of the red and purple side; our blue leaders are not that skilled. So it's great that there's a children's crusade, as Dan Rather pointed out, like the one that got civil rights passed. I feel encouraged by them just as Dan does, and when reds say that the blues are just using them, that disrespects the tragedy they have gone through and their sincere desire for change. People that age are in the prime of life and are at their most intelligent and skillful in many ways. They deserve our fullest respect, and should not be called opportunists, or labelled as paid actors by hoodwinked, brainwashed sheeple.
I mentioned the way your side is interested in making decisions for us and ruling over us. I don't see that you refuted any of my claims.
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(02-28-2018, 09:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 04:18 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: One side has lost it's mind, this commentator says.
I thought the kid was a student. He seemed more interested in attracting attention for himself than he was grieving for he loss of important people in his life (teachers and classmates). I have no doubt that he's an opportunist looking to make a name for himself. I could see it in his eyes and I could see it in his conduct and his attitude at the time he was being interviewed/sharing his story on the day (a few hours later) of shooting.
What struck me about him when I saw him on Meet the Press was simply that he was the most articulate among the 5 students interviewed. So I checked him out on you tube, and found even more evidence of his skill and intelligence. It may be that these appearances and his leadership furthers his career, or it may not; but if so, I think he deserves whatever personal advancement he gets for his articulate expression of his classmates' needs and his dedicated work for this great cause of gun control, which we sorely need, and which has been blocked by greedy lobbyists and by confused people for far too long, at the cost of far too many lives.
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03-01-2018, 06:51 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018, 06:54 AM by Eric the Green.)
(02-28-2018, 03:20 PM)David Horn Wrote: (02-27-2018, 11:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-27-2018, 11:30 AM)David Horn Wrote: (02-26-2018, 01:19 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-26-2018, 12:51 PM)David Horn Wrote: We may be heading for a time a lot like the late 19th and early 20th centuries, if the government decays further. The absence of communal power opens the door to private power, and stalemated government is as good a way to kill communal power as I can see: no coup required.
We may be, and this is exactly the 4T crisis that we face. The competition with this red culture during the remaining 10-11 years of THIS 4T will decide what kind of 1T and 2T we will have, and what kind of country we will have for the foreseeable future.
This assumes that a counter-narrative can be offered, defended and act as a rallying point for the alternative to neo-liberalism. Count me skeptical. I don't see any evidence that the Democrats will abandon their culture-warrior stances, and, barring that, there is no other way to create the commonality needed to move hoi polloi, who pay minimal attention to details. It's like living in a loop. Atrocious behavior generates anger. Anger generates action, but the action is split by cultural demands that tend to anger most of the populace. Atrocious behavior arises, and the loop repeats.
Until someone with charisma and stature focuses the anger on communal action, this won't change. The Dems seem incapable of seeing that, or too cowardly to take the risk.
As you suggest, it will take a good candidate, like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, who can convince people (as Obama and Clinton tried to do, somewhat successfully) to see that the concerns of their own cultural identity are being held back by the same private-power-enforced stalemate that holds back those of other cultural identities. Hillary made it clear too, using the slogan "stronger together." I don't think that's hard for people to understand; there just needs to be a candidate who can communicate well and give the impression that (s)he can be a leader.
Sadly, Obama was inspiring but detached and Bill Clinton was the neo-liberal who created much of the chaos we need to escape. I posted a link to a NY Times editorial on another thread that covers most of this. What's needed is Obama's inspiration linked with the ability to get things done that Clinton knew instinctively, but it needs to be focused away from the neo-liberal alliance between corporations and government and back to an alliance between the public sector and the people of the nation.
Who, how and when? You think this 4T. I'm less convinced of that. We still lack the leader, and nothing else can get done without her ... and I use that pronoun intentionally.
Yes, you're right. It would be nice if it were a her, but I don't see a her on the horizon who measures up yet.
Reagan was the neo-liberal who created much of the chaos we need to escape. Bill Clinton was a compromise candidate who managed to be acceptable in the neo-liberal era that Reagan created, and he did some good things that put things marginally on the right track; IOW he created a slight dent in the overall post-Reagan neo-liberal trend, while at the same time caving in too much to it. That's why I didn't vote for him in 1996.
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03-01-2018, 11:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018, 01:58 PM by pbrower2a.)
(02-28-2018, 01:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Great News!
Dick's Sporting Goods, one of America's largest retailers of firearms is doing the following:
1. no longer selling assault rifles
2. no longer selling high-capacity magazines for guns
3. raising the age for buying firearms in its stores to 21
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/28/news/com...index.html
http://pmd.cdn.turner.com/money/big/news...24x576.mp4
More good news: Wal*Mart announces that it will no longer sell firearms or ammo to persons under 21, as does Kroger (which owns some Fred Meyer stores that sell such). Big Business has a way of co-opting government intervention, which tendency can make the more capricious actions of state legislatures and Congress from taking more radical measures.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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Good news indeed. Business is getting ahead of government on guns. It shows that some businessmen are able to come to their senses, and also reveals the abject failure so far of our government.
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(02-28-2018, 09:12 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 12:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: From your response, you are not a resident of Red America ... not really. Do you feel the need to defend actions you wouldn't take or ideas you don't hold? I don't think so. FWIW, I think you fit much better in the pre-2015 GOP than you do today. If the recent CPAC convention is any indication, the GOP is eating their own. I'm baffled by the process, but I'm not a Republican. Maybe you can explain.
I'm not a resident of Red America. I think I've made ( I've been able make that very clear) that very clear to many people over the years. The majority of the Republican voters aren't Republicans (Republican loyalists). The majority are Conservatives of some sort or another like me who tend to vote Republican.
Which still begs the question. The Trump GOP and the pre-Trump GOP have little in common. In fact, some policy positions have switched 180 degrees. How do you feel about that? Are you still pro-GOP?
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(03-01-2018, 06:04 PM)David Horn Wrote: (02-28-2018, 09:12 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 12:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: From your response, you are not a resident of Red America ... not really. Do you feel the need to defend actions you wouldn't take or ideas you don't hold? I don't think so. FWIW, I think you fit much better in the pre-2015 GOP than you do today. If the recent CPAC convention is any indication, the GOP is eating their own. I'm baffled by the process, but I'm not a Republican. Maybe you can explain.
I'm not a resident of Red America. I think I've made ( I've been able make that very clear) that very clear to many people over the years. The majority of the Republican voters aren't Republicans (Republican loyalists). The majority are Conservatives of some sort or another like me who tend to vote Republican.
Which still begs the question. The Trump GOP and the pre-Trump GOP have little in common. In fact, some policy positions have switched 180 degrees. How do you feel about that? Are you still pro-GOP?
On most issues I lean blue, both against the GOP and Trump. Sure, a true conservative could be the same. In fact, I can sympathize with the true conservative over concerns about both the GOP and Trump.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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(03-01-2018, 06:04 PM)David Horn Wrote: (02-28-2018, 09:12 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 12:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: From your response, you are not a resident of Red America ... not really. Do you feel the need to defend actions you wouldn't take or ideas you don't hold? I don't think so. FWIW, I think you fit much better in the pre-2015 GOP than you do today. If the recent CPAC convention is any indication, the GOP is eating their own. I'm baffled by the process, but I'm not a Republican. Maybe you can explain.
I'm not a resident of Red America. I think I've made ( I've been able make that very clear) that very clear to many people over the years. The majority of the Republican voters aren't Republicans (Republican loyalists). The majority are Conservatives of some sort or another like me who tend to vote Republican.
Which still begs the question. The Trump GOP and the pre-Trump GOP have little in common. In fact, some policy positions have switched 180 degrees. How do you feel about that? Are you still pro-GOP?
I still favor the GOP as you can see. I don't have an issue with the changes that I've seen in regards to trade, immigration and job loss.
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(03-01-2018, 05:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good news indeed. Business is getting ahead of government on guns. It shows that some businessmen are able to come to their senses, and also reveals the abject failure so far of our government.
Business's are ignoring the law and establishing their own law. I didn't think Liberals would ever be willing to go for that and support it in any way.
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(03-01-2018, 06:43 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-28-2018, 10:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-27-2018, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 02:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Reds are VERY interested in making decisions for blues. You decide that we should be saddled with guns, and that we can't stop them from being used by idiots. You decide that corporations should continue to destroy our environment and destroy our climate and rip off workers and consumers. You decide that we should have cutbacks in the entitlement programs that we paid for, and that rich folks shouldn't pay hardly any taxes, leaving it all for our grandkids.. You decide that we should have lousy free-enterprise health care. You decided that gamblers and speculators should have the "freedom" to drive up our home prices and ruin our economy without any supervision. A lot of you decide that we should not teach evolution in schools. You reds have decided all these things and more for us. You decided that the USA should stay mired in an 18th century world. Don't tell me you don't decide things for us. It is you guys that are ruining the system with your stubborn regressive fanaticism.
I don't care about your gun rights. I would rather that young people live than have you reds have guns to kill burglars who might steal your laptop or your jewelry. I don't care that much about your stuff. It's not worth risking even YOUR life for.
Quote:Do you think the young blue dude (clueless blues) knows that the assault rifle ban was in place during Columbine? Did the national ban of assault rifles stop the massacre that took place at Columbine or the big shootout that took place between a couple of bank robbers and the police in the streets of LA? A shootout where the cops were out gunned because the criminals where more technologically advanced ( illegal AK-47's and body armor) than the cops and the civilians who the cops were doing their best to protect with their feeble standard issue pistols and shotguns. I don't think he or the clueless blues know this or take either of them into account prior to delivering arguments.
The young blue guy (who says he is non-partisan and believes in the Second Amendment, unlike me) knows a lot more than the idiots you guys have elected who refuse to act on gun control. The assault weapons ban reduced mass shootings and gun violence, and it increased when the ban was senselessly lifted. Bans work everywhere, but in a country already awash with guns, no laws can stop all massacres now. I say if a gun law can save a few lives, it is much more worthwhile than if some hunter can't shoot a deer or some maniac can't shoot up a school or office somewhere. Or if some of the robbers can't get an illegal AK-47 to shoot some cops more easily. Ask the cops if they want the robbers to have permission to get AR-15s and see what they tell ya.
Quote:How does it feel taking flack from the left and the right? Do you stand a chance at over coming two older and more knowledgeable people? My issue with blues is the caliber of the primary people who make up the bulk of their target audiences. I'm not a fan of idiots. I don't cater to the feeling of idiots. I don't market idiots. I don't employ idiots. I don't get into bed with idiots. I don't make deals with idiots. I don't rely upon idiots or invest in idiots. I don't take orders from idiots. Unfortunately, you earned you way into the idiot column a long time ago. I don't own stock in blue America. I'm not associated with poverty. I'm not associated with welfare. I have no interest in Socialism or Communism or Fascism or Monarchy's or any old system associated with Europe.
You and the reds in general are interested in taking us back to 18th century libertarianism where greedy businessmen have full permission to exploit and destroy our country. I am not a fan of idiots either, which is why sometimes I lose patience with you red guys. Some of you are worse than others. I don't consider you a troll like the nutjobs who made snide comments on this fun little vacation video. At least I hope you are not. A lot of you have good qualities as people. But you are holding our country back, and leaving it in danger from a pack of wild animals called greedy businessmen and unhinged fanatics. We need to move ahead to a new system and a new society where people know themselves and the divine presence, and have compassion enough to design a society that works for the most people most of the time. I have faith that it can be done, if the Awakening returns and people wake up to the potential to be creative that lies within all of us.
I have no interest in making your decisions or ruling blue America. I've given you some advice. I've identified certain lines that blues should never cross. I've given you my opinions of opinions of others that you've posted or the person or the situation that blues are using to advance their interests like the kid and the school shooting that they're using now. I have never expressed an interest in taking away any of your freedoms or Constitutional rights. What's up with blues? Are blues running out of worth while adults who are willing to take the shots that he seems to be taking for them (you)?
Maybe the last sentence is true; we are running out of blue adults who can seem to make any dent in the stuck opinions of the red and purple side; our blue leaders are not that skilled. So it's great that there's a children's crusade, as Dan Rather pointed out, like the one that got civil rights passed. I feel encouraged by them just as Dan does, and when reds say that the blues are just using them, that disrespects the tragedy they have gone through and their sincere desire for change. People that age are in the prime of life and are at their most intelligent and skillful in many ways. They deserve our fullest respect, and should not be called opportunists, or labelled as paid actors by hoodwinked, brainwashed sheeple.
I mentioned the way your side is interested in making decisions for us and ruling over us. I don't see that you refuted any of my claims
I think it's pretty clear that reds and purples don't want anything to do with the royal blues and greens. I don't need to refute the obvious. That should be as obvious to you as it is to me.
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(03-01-2018, 09:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 05:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good news indeed. Business is getting ahead of government on guns. It shows that some businessmen are able to come to their senses, and also reveals the abject failure so far of our government.
Business's are ignoring the law and establishing their own law. I didn't think Liberals would ever be willing to go for that and support it in any way.
Some are coming to the recognition that the guns that they may be selling profitably are the ones used in crimes that hurt business as a whole -- as in armed robberies.
If such retailers as Dick's Sporting Goods, Wal*Mart, and Kroger are doing something positive that government can't do or won't do, then I don't have a complaint with those corporate decisions. Let us remember one of the basic rules of good business -- never hurt your ultimate customers. The gun that Wal*Mart or the Fred Meyer division of Kroger sells that kills or cripples a convenience-store clerk or even a welfare recipient may deprive Wal*Mart or Kroger of a desirable customer. Remember: Wal*Mart and Kroger get much revenue from TANF customers.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(03-01-2018, 10:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 06:43 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-28-2018, 10:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-27-2018, 06:21 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-26-2018, 02:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Reds are VERY interested in making decisions for blues. You decide that we should be saddled with guns, and that we can't stop them from being used by idiots. You decide that corporations should continue to destroy our environment and destroy our climate and rip off workers and consumers. You decide that we should have cutbacks in the entitlement programs that we paid for, and that rich folks shouldn't pay hardly any taxes, leaving it all for our grandkids.. You decide that we should have lousy free-enterprise health care. You decided that gamblers and speculators should have the "freedom" to drive up our home prices and ruin our economy without any supervision. A lot of you decide that we should not teach evolution in schools. You reds have decided all these things and more for us. You decided that the USA should stay mired in an 18th century world. Don't tell me you don't decide things for us. It is you guys that are ruining the system with your stubborn regressive fanaticism.
I don't care about your gun rights. I would rather that young people live than have you reds have guns to kill burglars who might steal your laptop or your jewelry. I don't care that much about your stuff. It's not worth risking even YOUR life for.
The young blue guy (who says he is non-partisan and believes in the Second Amendment, unlike me) knows a lot more than the idiots you guys have elected who refuse to act on gun control. The assault weapons ban reduced mass shootings and gun violence, and it increased when the ban was senselessly lifted. Bans work everywhere, but in a country already awash with guns, no laws can stop all massacres now. I say if a gun law can save a few lives, it is much more worthwhile than if some hunter can't shoot a deer or some maniac can't shoot up a school or office somewhere. Or if some of the robbers can't get an illegal AK-47 to shoot some cops more easily. Ask the cops if they want the robbers to have permission to get AR-15s and see what they tell ya.
You and the reds in general are interested in taking us back to 18th century libertarianism where greedy businessmen have full permission to exploit and destroy our country. I am not a fan of idiots either, which is why sometimes I lose patience with you red guys. Some of you are worse than others. I don't consider you a troll like the nutjobs who made snide comments on this fun little vacation video. At least I hope you are not. A lot of you have good qualities as people. But you are holding our country back, and leaving it in danger from a pack of wild animals called greedy businessmen and unhinged fanatics. We need to move ahead to a new system and a new society where people know themselves and the divine presence, and have compassion enough to design a society that works for the most people most of the time. I have faith that it can be done, if the Awakening returns and people wake up to the potential to be creative that lies within all of us.
I have no interest in making your decisions or ruling blue America. I've given you some advice. I've identified certain lines that blues should never cross. I've given you my opinions of opinions of others that you've posted or the person or the situation that blues are using to advance their interests like the kid and the school shooting that they're using now. I have never expressed an interest in taking away any of your freedoms or Constitutional rights. What's up with blues? Are blues running out of worth while adults who are willing to take the shots that he seems to be taking for them (you)?
Maybe the last sentence is true; we are running out of blue adults who can seem to make any dent in the stuck opinions of the red and purple side; our blue leaders are not that skilled. So it's great that there's a children's crusade, as Dan Rather pointed out, like the one that got civil rights passed. I feel encouraged by them just as Dan does, and when reds say that the blues are just using them, that disrespects the tragedy they have gone through and their sincere desire for change. People that age are in the prime of life and are at their most intelligent and skillful in many ways. They deserve our fullest respect, and should not be called opportunists, or labelled as paid actors by hoodwinked, brainwashed sheeple.
I mentioned the way your side is interested in making decisions for us and ruling over us. I don't see that you refuted any of my claims
I think it's pretty clear that reds and purples don't want anything to do with the royal blues and greens. I don't need to refute the obvious. That should be as obvious to you as it is to me.
It is obvious and yet I need to repeat it to you because you can't see the obvious.
Reds are VERY interested in making decisions for blues. You decide that we should be saddled with guns, and that we can't stop them from being used by idiots. You decide that corporations should continue to destroy our environment and destroy our climate and rip off workers and consumers. You decide that we should have cutbacks in the entitlement programs that we paid for, and that rich folks shouldn't pay hardly any taxes, leaving it all for our grandkids.. You decide that we should have lousy free-enterprise health care. You decided that gamblers and speculators should have the "freedom" to drive up our home prices and ruin our economy without any supervision. A lot of you decide that we should not teach evolution in schools. You reds have decided all these things and more for us. You decided that the USA should stay mired in an 18th century world. Don't tell me you don't decide things for us. It is you guys that are ruining the system with your stubborn regressive fanaticism.
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(03-01-2018, 11:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (03-01-2018, 09:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 05:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good news indeed. Business is getting ahead of government on guns. It shows that some businessmen are able to come to their senses, and also reveals the abject failure so far of our government.
Business's are ignoring the law and establishing their own law. I didn't think Liberals would ever be willing to go for that and support it in any way.
Some are coming to the recognition that the guns that they may be selling profitably are the ones used in crimes that hurt business as a whole -- as in armed robberies.
If such retailers as Dick's Sporting Goods, Wal*Mart, and Kroger are doing something positive that government can't do or won't do, then I don't have a complaint with those corporate decisions. Let us remember one of the basic rules of good business -- never hurt your ultimate customers. The gun that Wal*Mart or the Fred Meyer division of Kroger sells that kills or cripples a convenience-store clerk or even a welfare recipient may deprive Wal*Mart or Kroger of a desirable customer. Remember: Wal*Mart and Kroger get much revenue from TANF customers.
Are they going to stop selling cigarettes to 18 year old's too? Cigarettes kill way more people than AR-15's. Society would be much better served by banning access to them. Like I said, Columbine took place while the assault rifle ban was in place. How many mass shootings have taken place in schools or on campus's since Columbine was the first mass shooting to take place in a school? I'd say a lot and I'd say the liberal hype that followed each one provided the fuel and inspiration for the next one.
Now, I recognize their right to determine what they sell in their stores and I'd have no issue with them getting out of selling guns in their stores. However, I don't recognize their right to ignore the law and establish a law of their own. I didn't see any AR-15's at the local Walmart. The local Walmart doesn't have many guns. I don't know why they waste their space with the small amount of guns that they have for sale. I doubt they sell many based on their lack of advertising and I'm pretty sure they're not selling enough to cover the cost of the space.
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(03-02-2018, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (03-01-2018, 10:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 06:43 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-28-2018, 10:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I have no interest in making your decisions or ruling blue America. I've given you some advice. I've identified certain lines that blues should never cross. I've given you my opinions of opinions of others that you've posted or the person or the situation that blues are using to advance their interests like the kid and the school shooting that they're using now. I have never expressed an interest in taking away any of your freedoms or Constitutional rights. What's up with blues? Are blues running out of worth while adults who are willing to take the shots that he seems to be taking for them (you)?
Maybe the last sentence is true; we are running out of blue adults who can seem to make any dent in the stuck opinions of the red and purple side; our blue leaders are not that skilled. So it's great that there's a children's crusade, as Dan Rather pointed out, like the one that got civil rights passed. I feel encouraged by them just as Dan does, and when reds say that the blues are just using them, that disrespects the tragedy they have gone through and their sincere desire for change. People that age are in the prime of life and are at their most intelligent and skillful in many ways. They deserve our fullest respect, and should not be called opportunists, or labelled as paid actors by hoodwinked, brainwashed sheeple.
I mentioned the way your side is interested in making decisions for us and ruling over us. I don't see that you refuted any of my claims
I think it's pretty clear that reds and purples don't want anything to do with the royal blues and greens. I don't need to refute the obvious. That should be as obvious to you as it is to me.
It is obvious and yet I need to repeat it to you because you can't see the obvious.
Reds are VERY interested in making decisions for blues. You decide that we should be saddled with guns, and that we can't stop them from being used by idiots. You decide that corporations should continue to destroy our environment and destroy our climate and rip off workers and consumers. You decide that we should have cutbacks in the entitlement programs that we paid for, and that rich folks shouldn't pay hardly any taxes, leaving it all for our grandkids.. You decide that we should have lousy free-enterprise health care. You decided that gamblers and speculators should have the "freedom" to drive up our home prices and ruin our economy without any supervision. A lot of you decide that we should not teach evolution in schools. You reds have decided all these things and more for us. You decided that the USA should stay mired in an 18th century world. Don't tell me you don't decide things for us. It is you guys that are ruining the system with your stubborn regressive fanaticism.
If you need to repeat it then it must not be as obvious to you as it is to me yet. As time moves on, it will become more obvious to you and the blues in general.
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(03-01-2018, 09:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 05:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good news indeed. Business is getting ahead of government on guns. It shows that some businessmen are able to come to their senses, and also reveals the abject failure so far of our government.
Business's are ignoring the law and establishing their own law. I didn't think Liberals would ever be willing to go for that and support it in any way.
Do you believe that businesses have the right to offer services and products they choose to offer, and not offer those they don't? That seems to be your position, which is odd for a businessman. If the Donald said that Carrier is anti-American (or maybe, just anti-Trump), would you cease selling or servicing Carrier products?
As for liberals, most of us are happy to see anything that resembles progress on gun control ... regardless of the source. The US has been held hostage by an intransigent GOP which has itself been held hostage by the NRA. When 97% of the people favor universal background checks, but they are never enacted, that's hostage taking.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(03-02-2018, 04:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-02-2018, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (03-01-2018, 10:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 06:43 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-28-2018, 10:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I have no interest in making your decisions or ruling blue America. I've given you some advice. I've identified certain lines that blues should never cross. I've given you my opinions of opinions of others that you've posted or the person or the situation that blues are using to advance their interests like the kid and the school shooting that they're using now. I have never expressed an interest in taking away any of your freedoms or Constitutional rights. What's up with blues? Are blues running out of worth while adults who are willing to take the shots that he seems to be taking for them (you)?
Maybe the last sentence is true; we are running out of blue adults who can seem to make any dent in the stuck opinions of the red and purple side; our blue leaders are not that skilled. So it's great that there's a children's crusade, as Dan Rather pointed out, like the one that got civil rights passed. I feel encouraged by them just as Dan does, and when reds say that the blues are just using them, that disrespects the tragedy they have gone through and their sincere desire for change. People that age are in the prime of life and are at their most intelligent and skillful in many ways. They deserve our fullest respect, and should not be called opportunists, or labelled as paid actors by hoodwinked, brainwashed sheeple.
I mentioned the way your side is interested in making decisions for us and ruling over us. I don't see that you refuted any of my claims
I think it's pretty clear that reds and purples don't want anything to do with the royal blues and greens. I don't need to refute the obvious. That should be as obvious to you as it is to me.
It is obvious and yet I need to repeat it to you because you can't see the obvious.
Reds are VERY interested in making decisions for blues. You decide that we should be saddled with guns, and that we can't stop them from being used by idiots. You decide that corporations should continue to destroy our environment and destroy our climate and rip off workers and consumers. You decide that we should have cutbacks in the entitlement programs that we paid for, and that rich folks shouldn't pay hardly any taxes, leaving it all for our grandkids.. You decide that we should have lousy free-enterprise health care. You decided that gamblers and speculators should have the "freedom" to drive up our home prices and ruin our economy without any supervision. A lot of you decide that we should not teach evolution in schools. You reds have decided all these things and more for us. You decided that the USA should stay mired in an 18th century world. Don't tell me you don't decide things for us. It is you guys that are ruining the system with your stubborn regressive fanaticism.
If you need to repeat it then it must not be as obvious to you as it is to me yet. As time moves on, it will become more obvious to you and the blues in general.
vice versa, I think 
btw taking away your gun rights, if it happens, is not taking away a right that I think anyone should recognize. We just have a different idea of "rights." The right to have a weapon of war and killing is not a right I personally respect, but most blues continue to respect it, although with qualifications-- just as with the 1st amendment. And I recognize that most blues continue to respect that right. I suspect that you don't recognize this.
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03-02-2018, 02:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018, 02:32 PM by Eric the Green.)
(03-02-2018, 01:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 11:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (03-01-2018, 09:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (03-01-2018, 05:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good news indeed. Business is getting ahead of government on guns. It shows that some businessmen are able to come to their senses, and also reveals the abject failure so far of our government.
Business's are ignoring the law and establishing their own law. I didn't think Liberals would ever be willing to go for that and support it in any way.
Some are coming to the recognition that the guns that they may be selling profitably are the ones used in crimes that hurt business as a whole -- as in armed robberies.
If such retailers as Dick's Sporting Goods, Wal*Mart, and Kroger are doing something positive that government can't do or won't do, then I don't have a complaint with those corporate decisions. Let us remember one of the basic rules of good business -- never hurt your ultimate customers. The gun that Wal*Mart or the Fred Meyer division of Kroger sells that kills or cripples a convenience-store clerk or even a welfare recipient may deprive Wal*Mart or Kroger of a desirable customer. Remember: Wal*Mart and Kroger get much revenue from TANF customers.
Are they going to stop selling cigarettes to 18 year old's too? Cigarettes kill way more people than AR-15's. Society would be much better served by banning access to them. Like I said, Columbine took place while the assault rifle ban was in place. How many mass shootings have taken place in schools or on campus's since Columbine was the first mass shooting to take place in a school? I'd say a lot and I'd say the liberal hype that followed each one provided the fuel and inspiration for the next one.
Now, I recognize their right to determine what they sell in their stores and I'd have no issue with them getting out of selling guns in their stores. However, I don't recognize their right to ignore the law and establish a law of their own. I didn't see any AR-15's at the local Walmart. The local Walmart doesn't have many guns. I don't know why they waste their space with the small amount of guns that they have for sale. I doubt they sell many based on their lack of advertising and I'm pretty sure they're not selling enough to cover the cost of the space.
YOU'd say a lot, but I think the facts are otherwise. The fuel for the next ones was the availability of guns and the publicity given to the shooting, which causes imitations. Still, yes mass shootings will continue in America, regardless of any ban or controls, for a long time to come, because gun ownership in this country is grandfathered in, and we don't propose some kind of mass search and confiscation. But fewer mass shootings and less gun violence occurs in blue states (of which gun control is a common feature, with 2 exceptions in 2 northern rural states), and still less in other developed countries, BECAUSE there is gun control and/or gun bans there.
You recognize a store's right to not offer guns in their stores, but accuse them of ignoring the law and establishing a law of their own. You meant the age restriction, I guess. That's a good point. But should a bartender supply a drink to someone they think has had too much? Should stores not have the right to refuse service to anyone, as many say they do? It could be that, by law, stores have some discretion, unless that discretion is against the law. I would guess that the gun supporters could file suit against stores refusing to sell guns to 18-20 year olds, if they think the stores are violating the law in doing so.
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