Bipartisan Senate group proposes ‘no fly, no buy’ gun measure

[Classic-Xer]

(03-13-2018, 06:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I see both groups seeing the world working in a certain simplistic way, and it becomes clear what you have to do to make things 'better'.  Few people want to really accept what the other believes at the core level.  Both are willing to try to coerce the other guy into following alien beliefs, attempting to use democracy to crush rights, or use rights to block democracy.

Perhaps both sets of values can work.  Perhaps in some reality prohibition can work, politicians or appointees can bend the law to their daydreams without consequences, prohibition could work, Washington could bend values and pigs could fly.  Perhaps some world could exist where having the good guys constantly defenseless is a win.

The blue daydream on violence cannot and has not worked.

Is it a matter of ideals, a matter of values or a matter of one (ideal) and another (value) conflicting with each other or a simple matter of two opposing views and disagreements that being represented by an idealist and a pragmatic?

[David Horn]

(03-13-2018, 05:35 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-13-2018, 10:27 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-11-2018, 04:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-11-2018, 10:13 AM)David Horn Wrote: Actually, voting is one area that youth are actually better prepared than their elders, because it's less emotional to begin with.  That's the point of pushing for the vote for 16 year olds.  Personally, I'm not sold on voting at 16, but I'm not totally opposed either.

Hmm. Blue voting and blue politics seem to be more driven by emotion and more reliant upon emotion. I see a lot of emotion being used in politics on the left side. I see political gatherings that remind me of pep rally's associated with my youth/ younger days. I've seen airheads and idiots who didn't seem to understand  or recognize the seriousness of the issues at hand or the issues that were at stake at the time.

The SJWs are the left's version of the Trumpists, so yes, both sides do it.  The biggest difference is centrality.  The GOP has swallowed the fear mongering and nativist nonsense from the Trump team, hook, line and sinker.  If that becomes the baseline attitude in the Democratic Party as well, then we have real troubles ahead.

FWIW, there are voices on the left fighting back against this tendency on that side.  I don't hear those voices on the right.

Trump has placed the Democratic party in a tough position. Does the Democratic party stick with American tradition or let go of it? Do you see any one affiliated with the right trashing liberal College's, burning down portions of cities, rioting with police, tearing down statues, entering political rally's and taking over the stage,  overwhelming security and chasing guest speakers off stages and so forth? You hear them because they aren't really needed on the right.

I'm not far from Charlottesville, so RW violence is not atypical here.  On the other hand, we have a very limited number of hyper-SJWs, so it may be the area as much as the meme.  It's interesting that the voices fighting LW outrages are also LW, or at least liberal.  Bari Weiss from the NY Times has taken this on as a project, and has been getting slammed by feminists (she's one herself) and Millennials (she's that too). 

The culture is broken.  I do hold the right responsible for creating the environment for this over the last 40 years, but both sides are now engaged.  Citing colleges as hot-beds of LW activism is probably right, but the hot-beds of RW activism are everywhere: Evangelical churches, RW media and the various alt-right groups are the most obvious.  Go to a county-western bar and it's there too.  We've gone tribal in the worst sense of the word.

[David Horn]

(03-13-2018, 05:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Everyone with a gun is a potential good guy who could save your life.

This is a gun-culture meme that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  If it did, the NRA wouldn't be dead set against data collection on the subject.  More to the point, the US is still alone as a gun culture and unique in the amount of gun violence.  I believe that many of the police shootings that been the direct result of cops approaching situations where the potential for guns being drawn makes them jumpy.  That's no excuse, just an observation.

[David Horn]

(03-13-2018, 06:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(03-13-2018, 05:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-13-2018, 05:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The idea that there are good guys and bad guys, and the good guys should have guns to stop the bad guys, is a fool's nonsense that gets us nowhere. Everyone with a gun is a potential bad guy. Guns make people into bad guys. Disarmament should be the goal. I understand that USA people aren't there yet, so mass prohibition and mass confiscation is not possible, but prohibition on certain kinds of guns, and due process to limit who can get guns, are still allowed and should be done.

Everyone with a gun is a potential good guy who could save your life.

I see both groups seeing the world working in a certain simplistic way, and it becomes clear what you have to do to make things 'better'.  Few people want to really accept what the other believes at the core level.  Both are willing to try to coerce the other guy into following alien beliefs, attempting to use democracy to crush rights, or use rights to block democracy.

Perhaps both sets of values can work.  Perhaps in some reality prohibition can work, politicians or appointees can bend the law to their daydreams without consequences, prohibition could work, Washington could bend values and pigs could fly.  Perhaps some world could exist where having the good guys constantly defenseless is a win.

The blue daydream on violence cannot and has not worked.

Oddly, it's worked everywhere but here.  I wonder why. 

[David Horn]

(03-14-2018, 01:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-13-2018, 06:41 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I see both groups seeing the world working in a certain simplistic way, and it becomes clear what you have to do to make things 'better'.  Few people want to really accept what the other believes at the core level.  Both are willing to try to coerce the other guy into following alien beliefs, attempting to use democracy to crush rights, or use rights to block democracy.

Perhaps both sets of values can work.  Perhaps in some reality prohibition can work, politicians or appointees can bend the law to their daydreams without consequences, prohibition could work, Washington could bend values and pigs could fly.  Perhaps some world could exist where having the good guys constantly defenseless is a win.

The blue daydream on violence cannot and has not worked.

Is it a matter of ideals, a matter of values or a matter of one (ideal) and another (value) conflicting with each other or a simple matter of two opposing views and disagreements that being represented by an idealist and a pragmatic?

Follow both idealized models to their logical ends and defend or demagogue each fairly.  Adding more and more guns and having them present in more and more places literally forces people who would rather not have them to get them and keep them handy.  In short, you have an nation of paranoid people each trying to defend against the unknown "other".  Removing all guns make the US like other advanced countries, where violence is lower and gun violence virtually nonexistent.

The first case is hypothetical, at least for now.  The second case is commonly practiced nearly everywhere.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-14-2018, 01:57 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-13-2018, 05:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Everyone with a gun is a potential good guy who could save your life.

This is a gun-culture meme that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  If it did, the NRA wouldn't be dead set against data collection on the subject.  More to the point, the US is still alone as a gun culture and unique in the amount of gun violence.  I believe that many of the police shootings that been the direct result of cops approaching situations where the potential for guns being drawn makes them jumpy.  That's no excuse, just an observation.

That's a reality that blues seem unable to recognize and accept. The vast majority of gun buyers aren't buying them to murder people. The vast majority of gun owner and gun buyers aren't the type of people who are into murdering people. Why are cops so jumpy? Do you think left wing groups who support spewing hatred of cops, calling cops murderer's and convicting them without due process have anything to do with that?

Now, I don't like niggers any more than I like white trash, I don't like black racists anymore than I like the white ones. Unlike the blues, I can point out both of them (see both ways) If blues don't address the growing issue of racism on their side it's not going to be good for the whites or anyone who seems wealthy or anyone seems to be in charge within blue America so to speak.

[Eric the Green]

It's a great day, with an extremist Republican being upset in PA, and the walkout by thousands and thousands of dedicated and aroused students demanding gun control so their lives are safe. I am so glad, and proud of them, and I will join them in the march here in San Jose on March 24, along with my UU church group.

It strikes me though, why it has to come to this. After the shock and activism following Newtown, and sit ins even in congress, and attempts time after time after each disaster, America still does not budge. It seems apparent that guns are this saeculum's slavery issue. America is really, really sick, and its disease is ammosexuality. It may be incurable, in which case we become fully barbarian. The gun issue may well be the catalyst for a civil war of some kind at the end of this 4T; maybe on a smaller scale, if the right wing gun-nut rebels can be easily defeated by a moderate-liberal government that takes power in the 2020s. If that moderate-liberal takeover occurs, and gun controls and bans on military weapons are passed, as now proposed, it will be in large measure due to the young activist late-millennial students today who by the thousands and thousands will be voting out the slaves of the NRA, the most evil institution in the USA today-- the equivalent of slavery in the 1860s. And they may enlist in the forces, perhaps led by a boomer gray champion president, that long about 2025-2028 will take down and disarm the gun-nut rebels who cannot adjust to 21st century realities. We'll see. Go students! Yeah!

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2018, 06:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-14-2018, 01:57 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-13-2018, 05:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Everyone with a gun is a potential good guy who could save your life.

This is a gun-culture meme that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  If it did, the NRA wouldn't be dead set against data collection on the subject.  More to the point, the US is still alone as a gun culture and unique in the amount of gun violence.  I believe that many of the police shootings that been the direct result of cops approaching situations where the potential for guns being drawn makes them jumpy.  That's no excuse, just an observation.

That's a reality that blues seem unable to recognize and accept. The vast majority of gun buyers aren't buying them to murder people. The vast majority of gun owner and gun buyers aren't the type of people who are into murdering people. Why are cops so jumpy? Do you think left wing groups who support spewing hatred of cops, calling cops murderer's and convicting them without due process have anything to do with that?

Now, I don't like niggers any more than I like white trash, I don't like black racists anymore than I like the white ones. Unlike the blues, I can point out both of them (see both ways) If blues don't address the growing issue of racism on their side it's not going to be good for the whites or anyone who seems wealthy or anyone seems to be in charge within blue America so to speak.

You seem to have some things backward, Classic Xer. It's the young blacks who are being shot down by police without due process, and then let off the hook for their crimes despite claimed due process-- which is really inordinate injustice. The police support gun control and assault weapons/magazine bans too, because they are also being outgunned by the criminals. It is the vast, out-of-control presence of guns by who-knows-who that makes the cops jumpy, as well as their own misconduct.

And it doesn't matter what peoples' intentions are when buying a gun. Guns make it easy for someone to become a murderer, or a suicide victim. Children get killed by them. And what other purpose can there be for buying a gun, except to kill? The presumed need for self-defense is an admission that the gun owner is willing to kill a burglar or whoever he thinks might be one. Or to kill some deer or wolf that would better be left alive or handled by qualified rangers.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-14-2018, 07:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You seem to have some things backward, Classic Xer. It's the young blacks who are being shot down by police without due process, and then let off the hook for their crimes despite claimed due process-- which is really inordinate injustice. The police support gun control and assault weapons/magazine bans too, because they are also being outgunned by the criminals. It is the vast, out-of-control presence of guns by who-knows-who that makes the cops jumpy, as well as their own misconduct.

And it doesn't matter what peoples' intentions are when buying a gun. Guns make it easy for someone to become a murderer, or a suicide victim. Children get killed by them. And what other purpose can there be for buying a gun, except to kill? The presumed need for self-defense is an admission that the gun owner is willing to kill a burglar or whoever he thinks might be one. Or to kill some deer or wolf that would better be left alive or handled by qualified rangers.

You seem to be very one sided and narrow minded based on your views. Recently, a white woman in Minneapolis was shot dead by minority policeman. Is he a murderer too? Was racism involved? I don't know because everything has been very hush hush about that shooting. She was a liberal white woman. He was a minority (Somali) cop. No big demonstrations. No big groups taking over streets and closing down freeways and creating chaos. It's like her life didn't matter as much as the black guys that were shot by police a few months (one minority (Hispanic) cop and one white cop ( white ethnic origin unknown). I think you're right, I think we should just disarm all cops to make sure that cops aren't able to kill people with guns anymore. I mean it's the only way we can make sure that cops don't kill people with their weapons.

How would you prefer to die, a high powered rifle round through the chest and dying immediately or within a few minutes or suffering miserably in agony as a group of wolves weaken you and then tear you apart as you're still alive? Death by nature is often slow, brutal and very cruel. Even if I'm off a bit, the result will be the same and it would only take a few more minutes.

[Eric the Green]

Yes, I am proud to be "one-sided" in my views about guns, if also somewhat realistic. Yes, whites can also be victims of unjust shootings, including by black or hispanic cops. I am against them, very much. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, said one well-known black man. Blacks today are victims much more often of unjust shootings. Cops seem to get away with these shootings, no matter who or what color the victim is. I think we could disarm cops when we disarm a lot more of the people. Meanwhile, when cops shoot people unfairly, they should be punished, not let off the hook. We would have a lot fewer riots in that case; think about it.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-14-2018, 06:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's a great day, with an extremist Republican being upset in PA, and the walkout by thousands and thousands of dedicated and aroused students demanding gun control so their lives are safe. I am so glad, and proud of them, and I will join them in the march here in San Jose on March 24, along with my UU church group.

It strikes me though, why it has to come to this. After the shock and activism following Newtown, and sit ins even in congress, and attempts time after time after each disaster, America still does not budge. It seems apparent that guns are this saeculum's slavery issue. America is really, really sick, and its disease is ammosexuality. It may be incurable, in which case we become fully barbarian. The gun issue may well be the catalyst for a civil war of some kind at the end of this 4T; maybe on a smaller scale, if the right wing gun-nut rebels can be easily defeated by a moderate-liberal government that takes power in the 2020s. If that moderate-liberal takeover occurs, and gun controls and bans on military weapons are passed, as now proposed, it will be in large measure due to the young activist late-millennial students today who by the thousands and thousands will be voting out the slaves of the NRA, the most evil institution in the USA today-- the equivalent of slavery in the 1860s. And they may enlist in the forces, perhaps led by a boomer gray champion president, that long about 2025-2028 will take down and disarm the gun-nut rebels who cannot adjust to 21st century realities. We'll see. Go students! Yeah!

Do you think the Democrats favorable view of Trump's policies and his willingness to support them had something to do with the victory? We'll have to see if he sticks to his promises or he switches and sides with the liberal Democrats on issues like immigration and the wall. Me, I'd say the debt is going to be the crisis issue. My daughter told me that the walk out wasn't a big deal at her school. She said most kids opted to stay in school which sounds about right as far as the community goes. The majority aren't liberals in the community.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-15-2018, 12:50 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Yes, I am proud to be "one-sided" in my views about guns, if also somewhat realistic. Yes, whites can also be victims of unjust shootings, including minorities. I am against them, very much. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, said one well-known black man. Blacks today are victims much more often of unjust shootings. Cops seem to get away with these shootings, no matter who or what color the victim is. I think we could disarm cops when we disarm a lot more of the people. Meanwhile, when cops shoot people unfairly they should be punished, not let off the hook. We would have a lot fewer riots in that case; think about it.

Why aren't we seeing them ( the cop shootings of white people) on liberal news channels, liberal mass media outlets? Don't liberals care about white people who are shot by cops? You say they/you do but I'm not seeing it? Why didn't we see black people going crazy about the white woman that was shot dead by a cop? You're one sided on guns, race, ideology and so forth. You'll make a few concessions as a nice gesture at the times or as a means to regain/preserve some integrity that you lost or stand to loose if you don't concede some and as a means to show some honesty. Hint: We ain't getting ugly yet. I'm ahead of the pack. By chance, was doing this kind of stuff, posting liberal information like you do here, part of job during the non profit years? I'm asking because most people aren't so one sided. You remind me of the political robots (scripted sales people)/ no minds that I see on news channels.

[pbrower2a]

(03-15-2018, 12:51 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-14-2018, 06:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's a great day, with an extremist Republican being upset in PA, and the walkout by thousands and thousands of dedicated and aroused students demanding gun control so their lives are safe. I am so glad, and proud of them, and I will join them in the march here in San Jose on March 24, along with my UU church group.

It strikes me though, why it has to come to this. After the shock and activism following Newtown, and sit ins even in congress, and attempts time after time after each disaster, America still does not budge. It seems apparent that guns are this saeculum's slavery issue. America is really, really sick, and its disease is ammosexuality. It may be incurable, in which case we become fully barbarian. The gun issue may well be the catalyst for a civil war of some kind at the end of this 4T; maybe on a smaller scale, if the right wing gun-nut rebels can be easily defeated by a moderate-liberal government that takes power in the 2020s. If that moderate-liberal takeover occurs, and gun controls and bans on military weapons are passed, as now proposed, it will be in large measure due to the young activist late-millennial students today who by the thousands and thousands will be voting out the slaves of the NRA, the most evil institution in the USA today-- the equivalent of slavery in the 1860s. And they may enlist in the forces, perhaps led by a boomer gray champion president, that long about 2025-2028 will take down and disarm the gun-nut rebels who cannot adjust to 21st century realities. We'll see. Go students! Yeah!

Do you think the Democrats favorable view of Trump's policies and his willingness to support them had something to do with the victory? We'll have to see if he sticks to his promises or he switches and sides with the liberal Democrats on issues like immigration and the wall. Me, I'd say the debt is going to be the crisis issue. My daughter told me that the walk out wasn't a big deal at her school. She said most kids opted to stay in school which sounds about right as far as the community goes. The majority aren't liberals in the community.

Every demagogue has some attractive proposals as promises, and Donald Trump is no exception. Economic and political reality establish the impossibility of the achievement of the demagogue's promises. Donald Trump has simply reverted to doing exactly what a Marxist would expect of someone who believes in nothing other than his gain, indulgence, power, and self-esteem -- his blatant class interests or at the least those of the economic sector whence he gets his income. Most specifically, he is the hero of the landlord at the expense of the middle-class homeowner. Just think of it: Donald Trump would prefer that the person who now gets tax deductions for mortgage interest and property taxes lease some gilded slum of the soul from him than own his own home. Let us remember that Marxist analysis far better than anything else explains pathological manifestations of capitalism, especially the one-sided economic policies of rapacious plutocrats at their worst. Donald Trump is a really-nasty capitalist; of this there can be no doubt. He is not so much an innovator as a gouger. We are even finding that he may have corrupted a Miss Universe pageant so that it would favor winners 'not too ethnic' -- or at least, more seemingly white.

As a really-nasty capitalist, it is hardly surprising that he defends the National Rife Association, a pressure group and front for the firearms racket that cares little about the number of people who die of the misuse of their economic interest (firearms and ammunition) so long as the profits roll in. His suggestion for getting more safety in public schools is in part to arm teachers. I have taught, and there is no way in which I could teach anything civil with a firearm on my person. I teach in schools, and not in a meth lab. Police-held firearms might leave the needful impression to meth 'cooks' -- but I want to give even the kid with the most troubled background some chance. Intimidation is my last choice of motivations.  Besides, a firearm in a classroom? I would prefer that a rattlesnake slither into a classroom than that a gun appear. Children can outrun rattlers, but they can't outrun bullets.   

Many Democrats dislike abortion. So do I. I would prefer that kids get objective education on sexuality that includes the advocacy of premarital celibacy as an ideal, and 'safe sex' as a backup. I'd like more expenditures on infrastructure, but maybe not as I figure President Trump wants (the cornerstone being privatization to monopolistic gougers, rent-grabbers like he. Economic rent is already an excessive share of the American economy, and it usually results in higher costs without better service -- as with monopoly).

I have no problem with sport hunting for which there is much manufacture of high-quality guns, scopes, and ammo. If one wants to kill an animal like a deer, rabbit, or game fowl that flees an inept shot and is no longer a target, one needs a very good gun. Sport hunters bequeath those guns to their kids, and it might not be surprising that some young hunters are using rifles that were used by a great-grandfather that the young hunter has never met. Sport hunting is an old and distinguished culture not to be confused with what urban gangs have. Urban gangs do not know about Duke Ellington or Frida Kahlo, but they certainly know guns.  Gun control can make life tougher for the Bloods, Crips, and MS-13, or such an apparent nutcase as Dylann Roof or Nikolas Cruz. You can figure  that teenagers in rural southwest Pennsylvania identify with kids slaughtered in Marjory Stoneman High School.

The culture is changing, and it may be turning in some places that Donald Trump won -- but also Mitt Romney, John McCain, and Dubya won. Sure I agree with the President on MS-13, but I can tell you some good things about some of the people of whom the President says are 'rapists and drug traffickers'.

Free trade is a good idea, and this is where I disagree with Connor Lamb. If you have a job depending upon the manufacture or extraction of commodities, then you have cause to distrust free trade because tariffs can compel Americans to subsidize your job. But (and Donald Trump was just caught on this) you ignore services, tariffs hurt you as a consumer. Maybe we need to get more people to get jobs in the international service industries from insurance to entertainment. Think about it: such companies as Disney and Warner manufacture very little, but they certainly make some valuable intangibles for trade -- like movies. Digital transmission of feature films has replaced the film reel as a means of supplying entertainment but is also more valuable.

[David Horn]

(03-14-2018, 06:30 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-14-2018, 01:57 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-13-2018, 05:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Everyone with a gun is a potential good guy who could save your life.

This is a gun-culture meme that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  If it did, the NRA wouldn't be dead set against data collection on the subject.  More to the point, the US is still alone as a gun culture and unique in the amount of gun violence.  I believe that many of the police shootings that been the direct result of cops approaching situations where the potential for guns being drawn makes them jumpy.  That's no excuse, just an observation.

That's a reality that blues seem unable to recognize and accept. The vast majority of gun buyers aren't buying them to murder people. The vast majority of gun owner and gun buyers aren't the type of people who are into murdering people. Why are cops so jumpy? Do you think left wing groups who support spewing hatred of cops, calling cops murderer's and convicting them without due process have anything to do with that? 

The mere presence of guns makes every interaction much more fraught with risk.  For cops, that's particularly true, since often they aren't interacting with people on the best of terms.  I fail to understand why that is so hard to understand.  The intention of most gun owners does not apply to ALL gun owners, hence the anxiety.  That's just human nature, and not easily overcome.  That's also why other countries limit the availability of firearms.

[David Horn]

(03-14-2018, 06:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's a great day, with an extremist Republican being upset in PA, and the walkout by thousands and thousands of dedicated and aroused students demanding gun control so their lives are safe. I am so glad, and proud of them, and I will join them in the march here in San Jose on March 24, along with my UU church group.

It strikes me though, why it has to come to this. After the shock and activism following Newtown, and sit ins even in congress, and attempts time after time after each disaster, America still does not budge. It seems apparent that guns are this saeculum's slavery issue. America is really, really sick, and its disease is ammosexuality. It may be incurable, in which case we become fully barbarian. The gun issue may well be the catalyst for a civil war of some kind at the end of this 4T; maybe on a smaller scale, if the right wing gun-nut rebels can be easily defeated by a moderate-liberal government that takes power in the 2020s. If that moderate-liberal takeover occurs, and gun controls and bans on military weapons are passed, as now proposed, it will be in large measure due to the young activist late-millennial students today who by the thousands and thousands will be voting out the slaves of the NRA, the most evil institution in the USA today-- the equivalent of slavery in the 1860s. And they may enlist in the forces, perhaps led by a boomer gray champion president, that long about 2025-2028 will take down and disarm the gun-nut rebels who cannot adjust to 21st century realities. We'll see. Go students! Yeah!

Don't expect miracles.  At most, this is one step on a long journey. We let this get out of hand, and the effort needed to put it right will probably require the death of those holding other views. Sadly, I don't see either of us living long enough to witness the solution.

[Eric the Green]

(03-15-2018, 02:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 12:50 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Yes, I am proud to be "one-sided" in my views about guns, if also somewhat realistic. Yes, whites can also be victims of unjust shootings, including minorities. I am against them, very much. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, said one well-known black man. Blacks today are victims much more often of unjust shootings. Cops seem to get away with these shootings, no matter who or what color the victim is. I think we could disarm cops when we disarm a lot more of the people. Meanwhile, when cops shoot people unfairly they should be punished, not let off the hook. We would have a lot fewer riots in that case; think about it.

Why aren't we seeing them ( the cop shootings of white people) on liberal news channels, liberal mass media outlets? Don't liberals care about white people who are shot by cops? You say they/you do but I'm not seeing it? Why didn't we see black people going crazy about the white woman that was shot dead by a cop? You're one sided on guns, race, ideology and so forth. You'll make a few concessions as a nice gesture at the times or as a means to regain/preserve some integrity that you lost or stand to lose if you don't concede some and as a means to show some honesty. Hint: We ain't getting ugly yet. I'm ahead of the pack. By chance, was doing this kind of stuff, posting liberal information like you do here, part of job during the non profit years? I'm asking because most people aren't so one sided. You remind me of the political robots (scripted sales people)/ no minds that I see on news channels.

I don't know how many news channels are liberal; most are owned by giant corporations and care only about commerce. They have that in common with Republican politicians. I can't speak for what they are covering or why, but I have seen a few stories, yes. Remember that the fact remains that it's young blacks that are unfairly getting shot down most often. It's up to you to recognize that this is a threat to your rights. Remember again what a certain black man said: injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. That's why that man championed many causes that white and asian people were interested in too.

I am a liberal and always have been, so it should be no surprise that I post liberal views, and that's all there is to it. I am informed and concerned, and that's all it takes to be a liberal.

[Eric the Green]

(03-15-2018, 12:51 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-14-2018, 06:46 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: It's a great day, with an extremist Republican being upset in PA, and the walkout by thousands and thousands of dedicated and aroused students demanding gun control so their lives are safe. I am so glad, and proud of them, and I will join them in the march here in San Jose on March 24, along with my UU church group.

It strikes me though, why it has to come to this. After the shock and activism following Newtown, and sit ins even in congress, and attempts time after time after each disaster, America still does not budge. It seems apparent that guns are this saeculum's slavery issue. America is really, really sick, and its disease is ammosexuality. It may be incurable, in which case we become fully barbarian. The gun issue may well be the catalyst for a civil war of some kind at the end of this 4T; maybe on a smaller scale, if the right wing gun-nut rebels can be easily defeated by a moderate-liberal government that takes power in the 2020s. If that moderate-liberal takeover occurs, and gun controls and bans on military weapons are passed, as now proposed, it will be in large measure due to the young activist late-millennial students today who by the thousands and thousands will be voting out the slaves of the NRA, the most evil institution in the USA today-- the equivalent of slavery in the 1860s. And they may enlist in the forces, perhaps led by a boomer gray champion president, that long about 2025-2028 will take down and disarm the gun-nut rebels who cannot adjust to 21st century realities. We'll see. Go students! Yeah!

Do you think the Democrats favorable view of Trump's policies and his willingness to support them had something to do with the victory? We'll have to see if he sticks to his promises or he switches and sides with the liberal Democrats on issues like immigration and the wall. Me, I'd say the debt is going to be the crisis issue. My daughter told me that the walk out wasn't a big deal at her school. She said most kids opted to stay in school which sounds about right as far as the community goes. The majority aren't liberals in the community.

Trump has already backed down on guns and is as unreliable as he always is, except when it comes to supporting racist nonsense like the wall and anti-immigration; he's pretty consistent there.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-15-2018, 04:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 02:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 12:50 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Yes, I am proud to be "one-sided" in my views about guns, if also somewhat realistic. Yes, whites can also be victims of unjust shootings, including minorities. I am against them, very much. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, said one well-known black man. Blacks today are victims much more often of unjust shootings. Cops seem to get away with these shootings, no matter who or what color the victim is. I think we could disarm cops when we disarm a lot more of the people. Meanwhile, when cops shoot people unfairly they should be punished, not let off the hook. We would have a lot fewer riots in that case; think about it.

Why aren't we seeing them ( the cop shootings of white people) on liberal news channels, liberal mass media outlets? Don't liberals care about white people who are shot by cops? You say they/you do but I'm not seeing it? Why didn't we see black people going crazy about the white woman that was shot dead by a cop? You're one sided on guns, race, ideology and so forth. You'll make a few concessions as a nice gesture at the times or as a means to regain/preserve some integrity that you lost or stand to lose if you don't concede some and as a means to show some honesty. Hint: We ain't getting ugly yet. I'm ahead of the pack. By chance, was doing this kind of stuff, posting liberal information like you do here, part of job during the non profit years? I'm asking because most people aren't so one sided. You remind me of the political robots (scripted sales people)/ no minds that I see on news channels.

I don't know how many news channels are liberal; most are owned by giant corporations and care only about commerce. They have that in common with Republican politicians. I can't speak for what they are covering or why, but I have seen a few stories, yes. Remember that the fact remains that it's young blacks that are unfairly getting shot down most often. It's up to you to recognize that this is a threat to your rights. Remember again what a certain black man said: injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. That's why that man championed many causes that white and asian people were interested in too.

I am a liberal and always have been, so it should be no surprise that I post liberal views, and that's all there is to it. I am informed and concerned, and that's all it takes to be a liberal.

Are you an American liberal? I don't think so. I think you're using a popular term for self interests. You see, you have an issue, you are being judged by an American liberal, your views are being countered by the views of an American live, your positions are being challenged by an American liberal and so forth.

[pbrower2a]

(03-15-2018, 04:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 02:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 12:50 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Yes, I am proud to be "one-sided" in my views about guns, if also somewhat realistic. Yes, whites can also be victims of unjust shootings, including minorities. I am against them, very much. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, said one well-known black man. Blacks today are victims much more often of unjust shootings. Cops seem to get away with these shootings, no matter who or what color the victim is. I think we could disarm cops when we disarm a lot more of the people. Meanwhile, when cops shoot people unfairly they should be punished, not let off the hook. We would have a lot fewer riots in that case; think about it.

Why aren't we seeing them ( the cop shootings of white people) on liberal news channels, liberal mass media outlets? Don't liberals care about white people who are shot by cops? You say they/you do but I'm not seeing it? Why didn't we see black people going crazy about the white woman that was shot dead by a cop? You're one sided on guns, race, ideology and so forth. You'll make a few concessions as a nice gesture at the times or as a means to regain/preserve some integrity that you lost or stand to lose if you don't concede some and as a means to show some honesty. Hint: We ain't getting ugly yet. I'm ahead of the pack. By chance, was doing this kind of stuff, posting liberal information like you do here, part of job during the non profit years? I'm asking because most people aren't so one sided. You remind me of the political robots (scripted sales people)/ no minds that I see on news channels.

I don't know how many news channels are liberal; most are owned by giant corporations and care only about commerce. They have that in common with Republican politicians. I can't speak for what they are covering or why, but I have seen a few stories, yes. Remember that the fact remains that it's young blacks that are unfairly getting shot down most often. It's up to you to recognize that this is a threat to your rights. Remember again what a certain black man said: injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. That's why that man championed many causes that white and asian people were interested in too.

I am a liberal and always have been, so it should be no surprise that I post liberal views, and that's all there is to it. I am informed and concerned, and that's all it takes to be a liberal.

The CBS channel where I live is owned by Sinclair (or as I call it, "Stinking Liar") Broadcasting. Its editorial positions have come to approach fascism as dictated by ownership. I avoid its news broadcasts, some of which have ownership-mandated agitprop such as Full Measure  (a clearly right-wing program as an answer to ABC, CBS, and NBC public-affairs programs that Sinclair ownership deems 'too liberal'. Sinclair/Stinking Liar Broadcasting offers a nightly "Terrorism Alert Desk" with Boris Epshteyn, basically a Two Minutes Hate session often against Islam. (Right-wing terrorism involving the KKK and neo-Nazis has killed more Americans since September 11, but don't let thatget in the way of propaganda against 'foreigners').

I am tempted to put up an antenna so that I could get such CBS programming as I get off the air instead of through that TV station.

[Classic-Xer]

(03-15-2018, 08:00 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 04:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 02:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(03-15-2018, 12:50 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Yes, I am proud to be "one-sided" in my views about guns, if also somewhat realistic. Yes, whites can also be victims of unjust shootings, including minorities. I am against them, very much. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, said one well-known black man. Blacks today are victims much more often of unjust shootings. Cops seem to get away with these shootings, no matter who or what color the victim is. I think we could disarm cops when we disarm a lot more of the people. Meanwhile, when cops shoot people unfairly they should be punished, not let off the hook. We would have a lot fewer riots in that case; think about it.

Why aren't we seeing them ( the cop shootings of white people) on liberal news channels, liberal mass media outlets? Don't liberals care about white people who are shot by cops? You say they/you do but I'm not seeing it? Why didn't we see black people going crazy about the white woman that was shot dead by a cop? You're one sided on guns, race, ideology and so forth. You'll make a few concessions as a nice gesture at the times or as a means to regain/preserve some integrity that you lost or stand to lose if you don't concede some and as a means to show some honesty. Hint: We ain't getting ugly yet. I'm ahead of the pack. By chance, was doing this kind of stuff, posting liberal information like you do here, part of job during the non profit years? I'm asking because most people aren't so one sided. You remind me of the political robots (scripted sales people)/ no minds that I see on news channels.

I don't know how many news channels are liberal; most are owned by giant corporations and care only about commerce. They have that in common with Republican politicians. I can't speak for what they are covering or why, but I have seen a few stories, yes. Remember that the fact remains that it's young blacks that are unfairly getting shot down most often. It's up to you to recognize that this is a threat to your rights. Remember again what a certain black man said: injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. That's why that man championed many causes that white and asian people were interested in too.

I am a liberal and always have been, so it should be no surprise that I post liberal views, and that's all there is to it. I am informed and concerned, and that's all it takes to be a liberal.

The CBS channel where I live is owned by Sinclair (or as I call it, "Stinking Liar") Broadcasting. Its editorial positions have come to approach fascism as dictated by ownership. I avoid its news broadcasts, some of which have ownership-mandated agitprop such as Full Measure  (a clearly right-wing program as an answer to ABC, CBS, and NBC public-affairs programs that Sinclair ownership deems 'too liberal'. Sinclair/Stinking Liar Broadcasting offers a nightly "Terrorism Alert Desk" with Boris Epshteyn, basically a Two Minutes Hate session often against Islam. (Right-wing terrorism involving the KKK and neo-Nazis has killed more Americans since September 11, but don't let thatget in the way of propaganda against 'foreigners').

I am tempted to put up an antenna so that I could get such CBS programming as I get off the air instead of through that TV station.

I'd say people associated with Islamic terrorist groups have claimed more American lives within the US since 9/11 than people associated with white supremacy groups.