Election 2020

[Classic-Xer]

(12-11-2020, 02:04 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-10-2020, 04:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-10-2020, 10:08 AM)David Horn Wrote: Trump moved to Florida to make himself immune to rationality.  Remember, this is the state that ran a raid on the home of a health researcher with guns drawn and children in the house: her crime was telling the truth.

Nothing is outside the bounds anymore.

Isn't that the same state that Clinton sent in a group of heavily armed Feds to enter an American home to seize a little Cuban kid and end a drawn out international custody dispute? Isn't that the same state that we watched the Liberal courts drag out an election result for months as it tried to change election laws after Gore lost the election? Isn't it also the state where a group of heavily armed Feds and a group of CNN reporters were sent to the home of an avid Trump supporter to be arrested on petty charges that had nothing to do with Russian collusion?

I can't say that was a good use of force either, but the order of magnitude is vastly different.  The Clinton Justice Department was enforcing a legitimate claim by a parent under court concurrence.  There was also a long period of trying to settle it amicably before the action was taken. I the recent case, it was an attempt to cover-up an embarrassing lack of transparency due to the governor's failure to protect the people of the state from a virus.  No court action involved, just force.

Where was CNN? If no court action was involved and Republican governor being involved, you'd think CNN and the others would have been all over it and I would have heard about it.

[CH86]

(12-12-2020, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.
 

We are leading it now and I expect that will continue throughout the struggle with the DNC.

While Trump's base obviously will stand against the DNC and already does so: Other Factions currently neutral and/or loosely/technically aligned with the dems currently will not be so by the time of the 2023-24 showdown. The Final alignment hasn't taken place yet, and that will feature practically everyone else versus the DNC diehards. Regarding the DNC, the current situation is like when Japan Turned toward Midway in 1942 instead of moving against Australia.

Dem leaders alienated most of their more vibrant parts of their coalition by essentially Cheating several times in the 2020 primary, however the New blocs are still politically inexperienced enough to have been swayed one final time by the DNC propaganda. However the GOP did make some inroads there, the situation there (with the Young and younger urban and suburban minorities) is like a giant river dam which is beginning a spring a leak, it is a small leak but ANY leak indicates a catastrophic failure. The river will burst through en masse.

[David Horn]

(12-12-2020, 02:31 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 02:04 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-10-2020, 04:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-10-2020, 10:08 AM)David Horn Wrote: Trump moved to Florida to make himself immune to rationality.  Remember, this is the state that ran a raid on the home of a health researcher with guns drawn and children in the house: her crime was telling the truth.

Nothing is outside the bounds anymore.

Isn't that the same state that Clinton sent in a group of heavily armed Feds to enter an American home to seize a little Cuban kid and end a drawn out international custody dispute? Isn't that the same state that we watched the Liberal courts drag out an election result for months as it tried to change election laws after Gore lost the election? Isn't it also the state where a group of heavily armed Feds and a group of CNN reporters were sent to the home of an avid Trump supporter to be arrested on petty charges that had nothing to do with Russian collusion?

I can't say that was a good use of force either, but the order of magnitude is vastly different.  The Clinton Justice Department was enforcing a legitimate claim by a parent under court concurrence.  There was also a long period of trying to settle it amicably before the action was taken. I the recent case, it was an attempt to cover-up an embarrassing lack of transparency due to the governor's failure to protect the people of the state from a virus.  No court action involved, just force.

Where was CNN? If no court action was involved and Republican governor being involved, you'd think CNN and the others would have been all over it and I would have heard about it.

Do you even watch CNN?  Here's the follow-on story, minus the video shot by the occupants of the house.  In that video, the entering officers had guns drawn... no doubt about that.

[Eric the Green]

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: I Will Post my thoughts on this election here: First Biden Won the election but demanding that Trumpers disband shows that the DNC does not understand the existing situation. Dems were able to get Biden over the hurdle ONLY because of the COVID crisis started which allowed for an Anti-Trump campaign to be launched due to poor handling, well as the fact that may registered democrats and even some moderate republicans actually want Biden to govern as a moderate. However the above is Definitely NOT the goal of the DNC.

The DNC leaders and the DNC supporters (A strange alliance of Finance classes, 60s radical Liberal activists and their kids and Rural Southern Church Blacks) clearly don't value Biden as a president and clearly secretly see him as a obstacle to their plans. Sometime, probably in late 2022 or 2023 the DNC will betray Biden and try to Install Kamala as president, however Kamala's backers mentioned above would get into a world of hurt if they do so. Actual Moderates and Progressives only voted for Biden because they wanted an actual moderate (in the case of the moderates) or they disliked Trump (in the case of the progressives). They did NOT vote because they support the DNC goals or the DNC/SJW alliance. When Pelosi and Kamala try to 25th amendment Biden, you will see an alliance of everyone not aligned with the DNC form. It will essentially be all parties (Democrats, Republicans and independents) vs about 30% of the democrats.

Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.

If it comes to a national plebiscite on "do you want Kamala Harris to replace Joe Biden" there will be an overwhelming vote of NO, with only a string of Rural cotton belt Counties voting YES. America would be reunited and realigned at that Moment with the NO vote. We will not allow boomers to Turn the entire Country into South Carolina DNC politics in order to preserve their corrupt grip on power. Think of it Trumpers, Berners, Moderates, Independents, Latinos, Northern and western Blacks, Asians, Indians and Arabs standing together to fight for the right to be REAL men and REAL women: To stop the globalist feminization of our children by Financial tycoons, Wrinkled Boomers and Wrinkled and Fat church ladies. It will be Glorious.

After the Defeat and political elimination of the DNC/Kamala Cult, Moderates, Conservatives, Progressives and Independents will have long and heated discussions over sensible policy options. With the Boomers and SJWs defeated, these discussions while heated will result in sensible compromise as all parties would be keenly aware of each others interests. The Synthesis of these discussions would be implemented as policy. The Military would be rebuilt, Industry would be rebuilt, Native and nationalized tech capacity would be rebuilt. We will move against Iran (depending on what their countries leaders do then it will either be Peace or War) without having our hands tied by Boomers and NGOs. Will will Contain China, while building our Nuke Arsenal to 100,000 warheads.

Us Boomers will win, with our Millennial and Gen Z allies. We will feminize the whole human race, turning us all into girls (by your definition, of course). After all, we are all children of Mother Earth, and saving Her is uppermost. That's why we need to be globalists too, and why we need no more nationalists like you CH. We will take away your guns, too. We will stop your authoritarian paternalist fascism before it even starts. Archie Bunker will not win. "Girls were girls and men were men" is for the old days. Your day was defeated in 1945, never to rise again.

Astrology speaks. It is the voice of the cosmos around us, and of Mother Earth. It says Kamala will never be president, and not ever get nominated either, so you will have no excuse to base your victory upon her defeat. She was chosen VP by mistake, and her gender and race played a role in that mistake; but as a candidate she never even had the support of the "church blacks" or very many Democrats of any stripe. She is a capable administrator, so she will contribute to a successful Biden administration. However, since she sucks as a candidate, she will never win or even inherit the USA presidency. Candidates with a 3-17 score do not win USA presidential elections.

I'm glad to see Susan Rice (14-7) finally get a position. Biden was afraid of the Republicans harranging her over her non-existent Benghazi BooBoo. But having domestic policy experience will put another feather in her cap. If the Democrats want a black woman, Susan is articulate and poised and would make a good presidential candidate instead of Harris, who is neither.

Elections from 1932 to 2020:
1932: Franklin D Roosevelt (FDR) 21-5 U, Herbert Hoover 11-14*
1936: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Alf Landon 11-15
1940: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U*, Wendell Wilkie 10-10
1944: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1948: Harry Truman 15-0, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1952: Dwight Eisenhower (Ike) 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19
1956: Dwight Eisenhower 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19*
1960: John F Kennedy (JFK) 13-4, Richard Nixon 19-6
1964: Lyndon B Johnson (LBJ) 9-6 J/M*, Barry Goldwater 21-10 M** (he had Mars in Scorpio rising, with inharmonious aspects: the perfect symbol of his stubborn "extremism")
1968: Richard Nixon 19-6*, Hubert Humphrey 12-5**, George Wallace 3-5 J/M
1972: Richard Nixon 19-6, George McGovern 9-11
1976: Jimmy Carter 13-5, Gerald Ford 13-7
1980: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Jimmy Carter 13-5*, John Anderson 11-8 J*
1984: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Walter Mondale 12-12 J/U*
1988: George H W Bush 15-5, Michael Dukakis 2-12*
1992: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, George H W Bush 15-5, Ross Perot 7-12 (his Jupiter rising is evident, but it was 10 degrees above his ascendant, so I didn't count it officially)
1996: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, Bob Dole 12-18, Ross Perot 7-12
2000: George W Bush 19-2*, Al Gore 11-10 M
2004: George W Bush 19-2, John Kerry 7-16
2008: Barack Obama 18-3, John McCain 13-12
2012: Barack Obama 18-3, Mitt Romney 4-10 U, SN
2016: Donald Trump 9-4 M, Hillary Rodham Clinton 7-12 J
2020: Joe Biden 16-6, Donald Trump 9-4 M (predicted as of Oct.15, 2020)

*Saturn Return blocks good fortune, and those who win anyway must face war and disaster
**Saturn Return before opponent's
J Jupiter rising helps a major-party candidate with a decent score to win, or at least improve his/her score
U Uranus rising, charisma
M Mars rising, aggressive
SN born with Saturn at the Nadir, averse to public status
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

[CH86]

(12-12-2020, 01:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: I Will Post my thoughts on this election here: First Biden Won the election but demanding that Trumpers disband shows that the DNC does not understand the existing situation. Dems were able to get Biden over the hurdle ONLY because of the COVID crisis started which allowed for an Anti-Trump campaign to be launched due to poor handling, well as the fact that may registered democrats and even some moderate republicans actually want Biden to govern as a moderate. However the above is Definitely NOT the goal of the DNC.

The DNC leaders and the DNC supporters (A strange alliance of Finance classes, 60s radical Liberal activists and their kids and Rural Southern Church Blacks) clearly don't value Biden as a president and clearly secretly see him as a obstacle to their plans. Sometime, probably in late 2022 or 2023 the DNC will betray Biden and try to Install Kamala as president, however Kamala's backers mentioned above would get into a world of hurt if they do so. Actual Moderates and Progressives only voted for Biden because they wanted an actual moderate (in the case of the moderates) or they disliked Trump (in the case of the progressives). They did NOT vote because they support the DNC goals or the DNC/SJW alliance. When Pelosi and Kamala try to 25th amendment Biden, you will see an alliance of everyone not aligned with the DNC form. It will essentially be all parties (Democrats, Republicans and independents) vs about 30% of the democrats.

Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.

If it comes to a national plebiscite on "do you want Kamala Harris to replace Joe Biden" there will be an overwhelming vote of NO, with only a string of Rural cotton belt Counties voting YES. America would be reunited and realigned at that Moment with the NO vote. We will not allow boomers to Turn the entire Country into South Carolina DNC politics in order to preserve their corrupt grip on power. Think of it Trumpers, Berners, Moderates, Independents, Latinos, Northern and western Blacks, Asians, Indians and Arabs standing together to fight for the right to be REAL men and REAL women: To stop the globalist feminization of our children by Financial tycoons, Wrinkled Boomers and Wrinkled and Fat church ladies. It will be Glorious.

After the Defeat and political elimination of the DNC/Kamala Cult, Moderates, Conservatives, Progressives and Independents will have long and heated discussions over sensible policy options. With the Boomers and SJWs defeated, these discussions while heated will result in sensible compromise as all parties would be keenly aware of each others interests. The Synthesis of these discussions would be implemented as policy. The Military would be rebuilt, Industry would be rebuilt, Native and nationalized tech capacity would be rebuilt. We will move against Iran (depending on what their countries leaders do then it will either be Peace or War) without having our hands tied by Boomers and NGOs. Will will Contain China, while building our Nuke Arsenal to 100,000 warheads.

Us Boomers will win, with our Millennial and Gen Z allies. We will feminize the whole human race, turning us all into girls (by your definition, of course). After all, we are all children of Mother Earth, and saving Her is uppermost. That's why we need to be globalists too, and why we need no more nationalists like you CH. We will take away your guns, too. We will stop your authoritarian paternalist fascism before it even starts. Archie Bunker will not win. "Girls were girls and men were men" is for the old days. Your day was defeated in 1945, never to rise again.

Astrology speaks. It is the voice of the cosmos around us, and of Mother Earth. It says Kamala will never be president, and not ever get nominated either, so you will have no excuse to base your victory upon her defeat. She was chosen VP by mistake, and her gender and race played a role in that mistake; but as a candidate she never even had the support of the "church blacks" or very many Democrats of any stripe. She is a capable administrator, so she will contribute to a successful Biden administration. However, since she sucks as a candidate, she will never win or even inherit the USA presidency. Candidates with a 3-17 score do not win USA presidential elections.

I'm glad to see Susan Rice (14-7) finally get a position. Biden was afraid of the Republicans harranging her over her non-existent Benghazi BooBoo. But having domestic policy experience will put another feather in her cap. If the Democrats want a black woman, Susan is articulate and poised and would make a good presidential candidate instead of Harris, who is neither.

Elections from 1932 to 2020:
1932: Franklin D Roosevelt (FDR) 21-5 U, Herbert Hoover 11-14*
1936: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Alf Landon 11-15
1940: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U*, Wendell Wilkie 10-10
1944: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1948: Harry Truman 15-0, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1952: Dwight Eisenhower (Ike) 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19
1956: Dwight Eisenhower 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19*
1960: John F Kennedy (JFK) 13-4, Richard Nixon 19-6
1964: Lyndon B Johnson (LBJ) 9-6 J/M*, Barry Goldwater 21-10 M** (he had Mars in Scorpio rising, with inharmonious aspects: the perfect symbol of his stubborn "extremism")
1968: Richard Nixon 19-6*, Hubert Humphrey 12-5**, George Wallace 3-5 J/M
1972: Richard Nixon 19-6, George McGovern 9-11
1976: Jimmy Carter 13-5, Gerald Ford 13-7
1980: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Jimmy Carter 13-5*, John Anderson 11-8 J*
1984: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Walter Mondale 12-12 J/U*
1988: George H W Bush 15-5, Michael Dukakis 2-12*
1992: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, George H W Bush 15-5, Ross Perot 7-12 (his Jupiter rising is evident, but it was 10 degrees above his ascendant, so I didn't count it officially)
1996: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, Bob Dole 12-18, Ross Perot 7-12
2000: George W Bush 19-2*, Al Gore 11-10 M
2004: George W Bush 19-2, John Kerry 7-16
2008: Barack Obama 18-3, John McCain 13-12
2012: Barack Obama 18-3, Mitt Romney 4-10 U, SN
2016: Donald Trump 9-4 M, Hillary Rodham Clinton 7-12 J
2020: Joe Biden 16-6, Donald Trump 9-4 M (predicted as of Oct.15, 2020)

*Saturn Return blocks good fortune, and those who win anyway must face war and disaster
**Saturn Return before opponent's
J Jupiter rising helps a major-party candidate with a decent score to win, or at least improve his/her score
U Uranus rising, charisma
M Mars rising, aggressive
SN born with Saturn at the Nadir, averse to public status
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Except the DNC REALLY wants Harris to be president. She was at only 2 percent in the polls which is a pathetic showing, it is not surprising that analytical methods that try to peer into the spiritual realm would show the same results. But the DNC plans to install her through the backdoor. Democrat leaders showed themselves to be weaklings by picking her instead of the less controversial Susan Rice. Harris was picked because Clyburn told Joe to do so, and for no other reason.

Boomers will lose and this is especially so if you use your own astrology methods as various charts clearly indicate a regime change in the late 2020s/2030s after a series of weak leaders in the 2020s. See the inauguration charts from 2021 through 2037. A Weimar scenario where the government has questionable legitimacy allows for various new factions space to develop and organize as movement. We've seen this starting in Obama's second term and a bit more under Trump, now that Biden is in there and clearly propped up by boomer financial interests and ideological interest groups, the young will mobilize in favor of their own ideologies which are NOT in line with boomerism. Only Boomers like Biden, literally no one except SJWs liked harris. Most millennials despised the democrats choice and did not vote. You guys did succeed in swaying Gen-Z but only using fear and crisis propaganda. Trump on the other hand is supported by Xers mostly.

Millennials will NOT embrace peaceloving liberalism as it is our destiny the overthow the boomer tyranny of weaklings whose pathetic leadership made 9/11 possible in the first place. Iran will be brought to heel and not by utilizing NGO's against the regime, but by the ruthless annihilation of living forces. Such will destroy Islamism as well as it has now been proven the all major Islamist attacks were organized from halls of the mullahs in Tehran and Qom.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-12-2020, 01:46 PM)CH86 Wrote:

(12-12-2020, 01:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: I Will Post my thoughts on this election here: First Biden Won the election but demanding that Trumpers disband shows that the DNC does not understand the existing situation. Dems were able to get Biden over the hurdle ONLY because of the COVID crisis started which allowed for an Anti-Trump campaign to be launched due to poor handling, well as the fact that may registered democrats and even some moderate republicans actually want Biden to govern as a moderate. However the above is Definitely NOT the goal of the DNC.

The DNC leaders and the DNC supporters (A strange alliance of Finance classes, 60s radical Liberal activists and their kids and Rural Southern Church Blacks) clearly don't value Biden as a president and clearly secretly see him as a obstacle to their plans. Sometime, probably in late 2022 or 2023 the DNC will betray Biden and try to Install Kamala as president, however Kamala's backers mentioned above would get into a world of hurt if they do so. Actual Moderates and Progressives only voted for Biden because they wanted an actual moderate (in the case of the moderates) or they disliked Trump (in the case of the progressives). They did NOT vote because they support the DNC goals or the DNC/SJW alliance. When Pelosi and Kamala try to 25th amendment Biden, you will see an alliance of everyone not aligned with the DNC form. It will essentially be all parties (Democrats, Republicans and independents) vs about 30% of the democrats.

Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.

If it comes to a national plebiscite on "do you want Kamala Harris to replace Joe Biden" there will be an overwhelming vote of NO, with only a string of Rural cotton belt Counties voting YES. America would be reunited and realigned at that Moment with the NO vote. We will not allow boomers to Turn the entire Country into South Carolina DNC politics in order to preserve their corrupt grip on power. Think of it Trumpers, Berners, Moderates, Independents, Latinos, Northern and western Blacks, Asians, Indians and Arabs standing together to fight for the right to be REAL men and REAL women: To stop the globalist feminization of our children by Financial tycoons, Wrinkled Boomers and Wrinkled and Fat church ladies. It will be Glorious.

After the Defeat and political elimination of the DNC/Kamala Cult, Moderates, Conservatives, Progressives and Independents will have long and heated discussions over sensible policy options. With the Boomers and SJWs defeated, these discussions while heated will result in sensible compromise as all parties would be keenly aware of each others interests. The Synthesis of these discussions would be implemented as policy. The Military would be rebuilt, Industry would be rebuilt, Native and nationalized tech capacity would be rebuilt. We will move against Iran (depending on what their countries leaders do then it will either be Peace or War) without having our hands tied by Boomers and NGOs. Will will Contain China, while building our Nuke Arsenal to 100,000 warheads.

Us Boomers will win, with our Millennial and Gen Z allies. We will feminize the whole human race, turning us all into girls (by your definition, of course). After all, we are all children of Mother Earth, and saving Her is uppermost. That's why we need to be globalists too, and why we need no more nationalists like you CH. We will take away your guns, too. We will stop your authoritarian paternalist fascism before it even starts. Archie Bunker will not win. "Girls were girls and men were men" is for the old days. Your day was defeated in 1945, never to rise again.

Astrology speaks. It is the voice of the cosmos around us, and of Mother Earth. It says Kamala will never be president, and not ever get nominated either, so you will have no excuse to base your victory upon her defeat. She was chosen VP by mistake, and her gender and race played a role in that mistake; but as a candidate she never even had the support of the "church blacks" or very many Democrats of any stripe. She is a capable administrator, so she will contribute to a successful Biden administration. However, since she sucks as a candidate, she will never win or even inherit the USA presidency. Candidates with a 3-17 score do not win USA presidential elections.

I'm glad to see Susan Rice (14-7) finally get a position. Biden was afraid of the Republicans harranging her over her non-existent Benghazi BooBoo. But having domestic policy experience will put another feather in her cap. If the Democrats want a black woman, Susan is articulate and poised and would make a good presidential candidate instead of Harris, who is neither.

Elections from 1932 to 2020:
1932: Franklin D Roosevelt (FDR) 21-5 U, Herbert Hoover 11-14*
1936: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Alf Landon 11-15
1940: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U*, Wendell Wilkie 10-10
1944: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1948: Harry Truman 15-0, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1952: Dwight Eisenhower (Ike) 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19
1956: Dwight Eisenhower 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19*
1960: John F Kennedy (JFK) 13-4, Richard Nixon 19-6
1964: Lyndon B Johnson (LBJ) 9-6 J/M*, Barry Goldwater 21-10 M** (he had Mars in Scorpio rising, with inharmonious aspects: the perfect symbol of his stubborn "extremism")
1968: Richard Nixon 19-6*, Hubert Humphrey 12-5**, George Wallace 3-5 J/M
1972: Richard Nixon 19-6, George McGovern 9-11
1976: Jimmy Carter 13-5, Gerald Ford 13-7
1980: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Jimmy Carter 13-5*, John Anderson 11-8 J*
1984: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Walter Mondale 12-12 J/U*
1988: George H W Bush 15-5, Michael Dukakis 2-12*
1992: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, George H W Bush 15-5, Ross Perot 7-12 (his Jupiter rising is evident, but it was 10 degrees above his ascendant, so I didn't count it officially)
1996: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, Bob Dole 12-18, Ross Perot 7-12
2000: George W Bush 19-2*, Al Gore 11-10 M
2004: George W Bush 19-2, John Kerry 7-16
2008: Barack Obama 18-3, John McCain 13-12
2012: Barack Obama 18-3, Mitt Romney 4-10 U, SN
2016: Donald Trump 9-4 M, Hillary Rodham Clinton 7-12 J
2020: Joe Biden 16-6, Donald Trump 9-4 M (predicted as of Oct.15, 2020)

*Saturn Return blocks good fortune, and those who win anyway must face war and disaster
**Saturn Return before opponent's
J Jupiter rising helps a major-party candidate with a decent score to win, or at least improve his/her score
U Uranus rising, charisma
M Mars rising, aggressive
SN born with Saturn at the Nadir, averse to public status
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

Except the DNC REALLY wants Harris to be president. She was at only 2 percent in the polls which is a pathetic showing, it is not surprising that analytical methods that try to peer into the spiritual realm would show the same results. But the DNC plans to install her through the backdoor. Democrat leaders showed themselves to be weaklings by picking her instead of the less controversial Susan Rice. Harris was picked because Clyburn told Joe to do so, and for no other reason.

Boomers will lose and this is especially so if you use your own astrology methods as various charts clearly indicate a regime change in the late 2020s/2030s after a series of weak leaders in the 2020s. See the inauguration charts from 2021 through 2037. A Weimar scenario where the government has questionable legitimacy allows for various new factions space to develop and organize as movement. We've seen this starting in Obama's second term and a bit more under Trump, now that Biden is in there and clearly propped up by boomer financial interests and ideological interest groups, the young will mobilize in favor of their own ideologies which are NOT in line with boomerism. Only Boomers like Biden, literally no one except SJWs liked harris. Most millennials despised the democrats choice and did not vote. You guys did succeed in swaying Gen-Z but only using fear and crisis propaganda. Trump on the other hand is supported by Xers mostly.

Millennials will NOT embrace peaceloving liberalism as it is our destiny the overthow the boomer tyranny of weaklings whose pathetic leadership made 9/11 possible in the first place. Iran will be brought to heel and not by utilizing NGO's against the regime, but by the ruthless annihilation of living forces. Such will destroy Islamism as well as it has now been proven the all major Islamist attacks were organized from halls of the mullahs in Tehran and Qom.

What was Joe Biden's score before you made the adjustments that increased it? If astrology speaks "for itself" then why did you manipulate enough to make Biden's score look much better than it actually was originally as well as is today. I assume that you had to bump up his to make you and his victory over Trump look more legitimate. I don't care what the charts say, I saw a typical/average Democratic politician "who has to be two faced these days" showing obvious signs of his age that told me that he has two years in office at best depending on how well they came hide him from public and keep him out of the spot light and cater to his needs and limit his appearances and limit the length his speeches and limit questions and limit people and limit situations and limit walking up and down stairs and playing with the dog.

[Classic-Xer]

CH86

(12-12-2020, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.
 

We are leading it now and I expect that will continue throughout the struggle with the DNC.

While Trump's base obviously will stand against the DNC and already does so: Other Factions currently neutral and/or loosely/technically aligned with the dems currently will not be so by the time of the 2023-24 showdown. The Final alignment hasn't taken place yet, and that will feature practically everyone else versus the DNC diehards. Regarding the DNC, the current situation is like when Japan Turned toward Midway in 1942 instead of moving against Australia.

Dem leaders alienated most of their more vibrant parts of their coalition by essentially Cheating several times in the 2020 primary, however the New blocs are still politically inexperienced enough to have been swayed one final time by the DNC propaganda. However the GOP did make some inroads there, the situation there (with the Young and younger urban and suburban minorities) is like a giant river dam which is beginning a spring a leak, it is a small leak but ANY leak indicates a catastrophic failure. The river will burst through en masse.

So, what do you think the Republican/Trump base should do about the old GOP/Anti-Trump wing who just fucked them? Half of me says fuck it, fuck them by handing a couple Senate seats to a couple of Democratic senators that we could give shits about being it will be their necks with the rope around them and let the stock reaction do the dirty work for us. It's the only way that I know to send the Wall Street hacks as message that we mean business. So, where do you live, do you live within the fray or outside the fray? I live outside the fray but close enough to the fray to add to the fray and there are enough us to keep our areas safe during the fray that's coming.

[CH86]

(12-12-2020, 04:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: CH86

(12-12-2020, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.
 

We are leading it now and I expect that will continue throughout the struggle with the DNC.

While Trump's base obviously will stand against the DNC and already does so: Other Factions currently neutral and/or loosely/technically aligned with the dems currently will not be so by the time of the 2023-24 showdown. The Final alignment hasn't taken place yet, and that will feature practically everyone else versus the DNC diehards. Regarding the DNC, the current situation is like when Japan Turned toward Midway in 1942 instead of moving against Australia.

Dem leaders alienated most of their more vibrant parts of their coalition by essentially Cheating several times in the 2020 primary, however the New blocs are still politically inexperienced enough to have been swayed one final time by the DNC propaganda. However the GOP did make some inroads there, the situation there (with the Young and younger urban and suburban minorities) is like a giant river dam which is beginning a spring a leak, it is a small leak but ANY leak indicates a catastrophic failure. The river will burst through en masse.

So, what do you think the Republican/Trump base should do about the old GOP/Anti-Trump wing who just fucked them? Half of me says fuck it, fuck them by handing a couple Senate seats to a couple of Democratic senators that we could give shits about being it will be their necks with the rope around them and let the stock reaction do the dirty work for us. It's the only way that I know to send the Wall Street hacks as message that we mean business. So, where do you live, do you live within the fray or outside the fray? I live outside the fray but close enough to the fray to add to the fray and there are enough us to keep our areas safe during the fray that's coming.

The GOP should kick out the RINO/Boomer neocon wing away from the party, while simultaneously weakening the DNC's hold on the Young/New Factions by redpilling those groups on what the DNC's likely next move would be: When the DNC does exactly those moves you predicted would occur, these groups would continue to defect from the DNC. Block DNC initiatives and propose policies that help regular Americans while hurting the DNC pillars of wall street and SJW's/corporations.

Blocking the SJWs is priority number one, as they are the main DNC faction on the ground level that would stay loyal to the DNC to the end. The SJWs simply would have to be defeated. Anything that hurts the boomer's would be helpful as they are main drivers behind SJW-ism. Block Kamala's power play for the presidency when it occurs.

[pbrower2a]

(12-11-2020, 08:57 PM)CH86 Wrote: PBrower, your boomerism strikes again. Most Millennials HATE globalist tyranny and UN tyranny. My generation during our childhood in the 1990s witnessed the Boomers embracing cultural feminine decadence while simultaneously making sanctimonious preaching to the rest of the world at the time. Millennials Embraced an alternative youth culture at the time which took several various forms (thank god Gen-x was around to show us actual values). A lot of us young people were not surprised when 9/11 occurred, we saw the obvious weakness boomers showed during the Kosovo war and punitive air raids on Iraq.

Boomer elites of management, media, and politics have been awful. They have gotten away with narcissistic pathology as one would expect of hereditary elites. Those not in the elites may be decent enough, but having to do real work now requires abasement characteristic of a serf. Once the System determines that one is a "loser", one is such for life. People who have no checks upon their egos become extremely obnoxious... like Donald Trump. 

Quote:Millennials then signed up in droves to fight in the war only for boomers to betray the troops by demanding that they fight with one arm tied behind their backs. They inoculated us against globalist neocons. By the late 2000s we wanted reform. Yes we initially supported Obama enthusiastically however once He got elected, he chose to betray millennials by choosing to enrich the Boomer Tycoons and Support corporate globalists. The embrace of globalism is what summoned the opposition by the Tea Party. If Bush Inoculated us against the neocons, Obama inoculated us against the Neolibs. The Forced acceptance of refugees and mass immigration is what Catalyzed The Rise of Donald Trump in order to put a stop to that insanity.

So what do we call the pathology that is Donald Trump, who exemplifies the worst traits of an Idealist generation with none of the virtues? Trump has created a reaction against him. It is clear that American capitalism, at least during the Neoliberal phase of American history that begins with Reagan and ends with Trump, has operated on the assumption that no human suffering can ever be in excess so long as it enriches and empowers an entrenched elite while enforcing its will. Fascism is too generic (it has been used to describe the racist, militarist Adolf Hitler and the reactionary but militarily-cautious Agosto Pinochet). "Trumpism" suggests that the fault is in the specific person, but what do we call it when someone imitates him and exploits some hard times with promises that "I am the only solution or salvation".   

Quote:President Trump was not our preferred option (we wanted someone like Tulsi) but he was a good stopgap measure for a time. Then finally in 2020 we had the opportunity to elect a policy based campaign representing the political aspirations of young People, Xers, Millies and Gen-Z'ers, A policy based campaign representing the Core of the Latino Communities of the western and northeastern cities, the Black Communities of the Northern and western cities and Suburbs and sunbelt cities as well as the new Asian and Arab ethnic constituencies. However the Boomers lead by Obama and Clyburn rigged the primaries AND the Veepstakes; while the selfish Boomers claimed that rich latte liberal Boomers and Southern Black Church ladies were somehow the majority of Non-republican voters. The Boomers then conveniently claimed anyone who disagreed with them was a racist against said church ladies; and what was the Non-Racist position: Conveniently the Human Rights Tyranny political positions the Boomer sixties radicals tried to shove down the electorate's throats since the 1960s.

Donald Trump is an unmitigated disaster, a diversion from needful reforms in our social order. Cultural identity is rarely a choice unless the result of some extensive process of self-discovery in a society in which entertainment is a bigger business (for revenue, if not employment) than textiles. If you think that concerns of human rights are tyranny, then think of what life is like in a country like Iran or North Korea in which there are no human rights. You know how that goes -- disagree with the ruling elite, and die horribly.

Quote:We now instead have this abomination of a woman (Kamala) who personifies everything millennials HATE about American politics waiting in the wings. Millennials and Gen-Z'ers WILL NOT submit to AIPAC tyranny. Millennials will never support an Israel-Firster and Human rights Tyrant who wants to take aways our kids childhoods. At least the right since the rise of Trump has rediscovered the neccessity of understanding Human nature unlike the boomers globalists who even now whine "why cant we install pro-feminist democracies in Tehran, Pyongyang and Damascus" because you are selfish boomers who refuse to accept the reality of international borders. You Globalists are starting to even make us Millennials even feel a little sympathy toward the motives of our enemies like the Mullahs of Iran and others. Death to Globalism, Death to Human Rights Tyranny.

Trump understood a part of human nature -- the primitive segment of the psyche, the sewer of the soul. Anti-intellectualism, contempt for the weak and helpless, disdain for ethnic and religious difference, celebration of the 'star'... I am too old to say that if I never see another Donald Trump (I thought he was a person to avoid from when he was a young man) I will miss nothing. If I were fifty years younger I would say the same thing, and that would count more. 

Remember well: in the aftermath of World War II we ended up supporting environments much more respectful of women in Germany, Italy, Japan, and France (and the male chauvinism in pre-WWII France had made France vulnerable to a fascist movement that almost succeeded  without war and gladly served the Third Reich for its own purposes). Male chauvinism might not be the cause of all ills, but note well: men are as a rule more aggressive in the same species (I had a pet female golden cocker spaniel and a male golden cocker spaniel, both neutered, and they could have hardly been more different in their "personalities" -- dogs are as individual as humans are) except when protecting their young.  The Nazis got their start among people high on a heady combination of testosterone and alcohol. It's better that people get their social ideas from a sober priest than from some angry, cranky, loudmouth drunk.

[pbrower2a]

(12-12-2020, 04:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: CH86

(12-12-2020, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.
 

We are leading it now and I expect that will continue throughout the struggle with the DNC.

While Trump's base obviously will stand against the DNC and already does so: Other Factions currently neutral and/or loosely/technically aligned with the dems currently will not be so by the time of the 2023-24 showdown. The Final alignment hasn't taken place yet, and that will feature practically everyone else versus the DNC diehards. Regarding the DNC, the current situation is like when Japan Turned toward Midway in 1942 instead of moving against Australia.

...except that Thug Japan (not to be confused with the politically-civilized Japan since the Second World War) was committing a sequence of aggressive acts.  On some history forum I suggested that the Battle of Midway was intended by Japan to be a prelude to an assault on Hawaii.  Just look at a map of the Pacific Ocean and tell me what is between Hawaii and California: a huge expanse of water. Oceans are easy places to move ships but offer no points of defense. With Japan inside the Japanese defensive perimeter and impossible to take back, the United States would have had no means of preventing Australia and New Zealand from being devoured by much-larger Japanese military forces. 

But back to the point: we usually alternate between Parties in the Presidency. Two terms for a Party is the norm. Trump must have done enough wrong to not get re-elected. People usually get accustomed to what they have, and the incumbent President typically has enough exposure in the media to get his point across.  

Quote:Dem leaders alienated most of their more vibrant parts of their coalition by essentially cheating several times in the 2020 primary, however the New blocs are still politically inexperienced enough to have been swayed one final time by the DNC propaganda. However the GOP did make some inroads there, the situation there (with the Young and younger urban and suburban minorities) is like a giant river dam which is beginning a spring a leak, it is a small leak but ANY leak indicates a catastrophic failure. The river will burst through en masse.

Nice physical analogies, but without the virtue of reality behind them. I am surprised that Trump actually won more voters and got his percentage of the vote up 1%. This said, Donald Trump had severe faults as a leader, including a lack of experience in political reality.  Maybe the next right-wing @$$hole will appeal with more sophistication to the moral sewer of bigotry, anger, and resentment... but will that right-wing @$$hole succeed? I am not in the prophecy business. That's Eric's department and not mine.  

Quote:So, what do you think the Republican/Trump base should do about the old GOP/Anti-Trump wing who just (expletive deleted) them? (profanities deleted)... handing a couple Senate seats to a couple of Democratic senators ... it will be their necks with the rope around them and let the stock reaction do the dirty work for us. It's the only way that I know to send the Wall Street hacks as message that we mean business. So, where do you live, do you live within the fray or outside the fray? I live outside the fray but close enough to the fray to add to the fray and there are enough us to keep our areas safe during the fray that's coming.

The question is what the conservative opponents of Donald Trump do. Maybe they take over an existing Third Party (Reform? Constitution?) or form their own. Maybe they take over weak Democratic Parties in some states (let us say Oklahoma) and offer some different, more coherent, form of conservatism as an alternative.   

Democracy needs a contest between viable liberal or social-democratic parties and a viable conservatism, both of which have principles higher than 'sticking it' to their opposition. Much of the problem is that the conservative side of the American political system has installed power above principle and service. That must change. It may be the 2024 election makes that clear.

[CH86]

(12-12-2020, 05:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The question is what the conservative opponents of Donald Trump do. Maybe they take over an existing Third Party (Reform? Constitution?) or form their own. Maybe they take over weak Democratic Parties in some states (let us say Oklahoma) and offer some different, more coherent, form of conservatism as an alternative.   

Democracy needs a contest between viable liberal or social-democratic parties and a viable conservatism, both of which have principles higher than 'sticking it' to their opposition. Much of the problem is that the conservative side of the American political system has installed power above principle and service. That must change. It may be the 2024 election makes that clear.

But the Reason the conservatives are stubbornly trying to block the results isn't because of some unreasonable conservative opposition to democracy, But because the liberal side is forcing through radical SJWs as their nominees. Trump would have had no problem conceding if Bernie/Tulsi had won the primary and subsequently won the election. However the DNC cheated in order to force feed their "Culture Wars" candidate and made their intentions crystal clear by making the most prominent advocates of SJW authoritarian "Liberalism" their VP choice. Why do you think there was such intense opposition to her candidacy throughout the 2020 primary and veepstakes, and intense opposition to Hillary's campaign in 2016 for that matter. The So-called "moderate" democrats are clearly the real radicals and that has been clear for the last 5 years.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-12-2020, 06:02 PM)CH86 Wrote:

(12-12-2020, 05:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The question is what the conservative opponents of Donald Trump do. Maybe they take over an existing Third Party (Reform? Constitution?) or form their own. Maybe they take over weak Democratic Parties in some states (let us say Oklahoma) and offer some different, more coherent, form of conservatism as an alternative.   

Democracy needs a contest between viable liberal or social-democratic parties and a viable conservatism, both of which have principles higher than 'sticking it' to their opposition. Much of the problem is that the conservative side of the American political system has installed power above principle and service. That must change. It may be the 2024 election makes that clear.

But the Reason the conservatives are stubbornly trying to block the results isn't because of some unreasonable conservative opposition to democracy, But because the liberal side is forcing through radical SJWs as their nominees. Trump would have had no problem conceding if Bernie/Tulsi had won the primary and subsequently won the election. However the DNC cheated in order to force feed their "Culture Wars" candidate and made their intentions crystal clear by making the most prominent advocates of SJW authoritarian "Liberalism" their VP choice. Why do you think there was such intense opposition to her candidacy throughout the 2020 primary and veepstakes, and intense opposition to Hillary's campaign in 2016 for that matter. The So-called "moderate" democrats are clearly the real radicals and that has been clear for the last 5 years.

I note you are grumbling about social warriors and culture wars rather than pointing at the newer protests about racism.  I see especially social warriors as being the conservative code word for the liberal side of fighting racism from back when racism was kept subtle.  As a blue person, I would as soon see the racists hit by another set of laws cutting white privilege and resulting in no need to restart the protests when the weather turns warm again.  Mabe in another two or four turnings we might do another round.  While I'm not into the SJW scene - I have other issues I am more concerned with - seeing people advocate for racist interactions is problematic.

I don't see Trumps scam to collect money, his legal farcial lawsuits, his counter inaugural programming, as having anything to do with racism.  That is just Trump being Trump.  He just wants money and publicity.  He wants to make trouble for his perceived enemies.  Charming guy.

[Einzige]

Kautskyute social democracy and conservatism are functionally identical.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-12-2020, 09:55 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-12-2020, 02:31 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 02:04 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-10-2020, 04:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-10-2020, 10:08 AM)David Horn Wrote: Trump moved to Florida to make himself immune to rationality.  Remember, this is the state that ran a raid on the home of a health researcher with guns drawn and children in the house: her crime was telling the truth.

Nothing is outside the bounds anymore.

Isn't that the same state that Clinton sent in a group of heavily armed Feds to enter an American home to seize a little Cuban kid and end a drawn out international custody dispute? Isn't that the same state that we watched the Liberal courts drag out an election result for months as it tried to change election laws after Gore lost the election? Isn't it also the state where a group of heavily armed Feds and a group of CNN reporters were sent to the home of an avid Trump supporter to be arrested on petty charges that had nothing to do with Russian collusion?

I can't say that was a good use of force either, but the order of magnitude is vastly different.  The Clinton Justice Department was enforcing a legitimate claim by a parent under court concurrence.  There was also a long period of trying to settle it amicably before the action was taken. I the recent case, it was an attempt to cover-up an embarrassing lack of transparency due to the governor's failure to protect the people of the state from a virus.  No court action involved, just force.

Where was CNN? If no court action was involved and Republican governor being involved, you'd think CNN and the others would have been all over it and I would have heard about it.

Do you even watch CNN?  Here's the follow-on story, minus the video shot by the occupants of the house.  In that video, the entering officers had guns drawn... no doubt about that.

It sounded like there was a legal warrant involved to me and it looked like she over exaggerated her claims and the hallway looked pretty dark which which would warrant a drawn gun while walking around and securing a home for investigators to enter.

[Classic-Xer]

(12-12-2020, 05:03 PM)CH86 Wrote:

(12-12-2020, 04:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: CH86

(12-12-2020, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.
 

We are leading it now and I expect that will continue throughout the struggle with the DNC.

While Trump's base obviously will stand against the DNC and already does so: Other Factions currently neutral and/or loosely/technically aligned with the dems currently will not be so by the time of the 2023-24 showdown. The Final alignment hasn't taken place yet, and that will feature practically everyone else versus the DNC diehards. Regarding the DNC, the current situation is like when Japan Turned toward Midway in 1942 instead of moving against Australia.

Dem leaders alienated most of their more vibrant parts of their coalition by essentially Cheating several times in the 2020 primary, however the New blocs are still politically inexperienced enough to have been swayed one final time by the DNC propaganda. However the GOP did make some inroads there, the situation there (with the Young and younger urban and suburban minorities) is like a giant river dam which is beginning a spring a leak, it is a small leak but ANY leak indicates a catastrophic failure. The river will burst through en masse.

So, what do you think the Republican/Trump base should do about the old GOP/Anti-Trump wing who just fucked them? Half of me says fuck it, fuck them by handing a couple Senate seats to a couple of Democratic senators that we could give shits about being it will be their necks with the rope around them and let the stock reaction do the dirty work for us. It's the only way that I know to send the Wall Street hacks as message that we mean business. So, where do you live, do you live within the fray or outside the fray? I live outside the fray but close enough to the fray to add to the fray and there are enough us to keep our areas safe during the fray that's coming.

The GOP should kick out the RINO/Boomer neocon wing away from the party, while simultaneously weakening the DNC's hold on the Young/New Factions by redpilling those groups on what the DNC's likely next move would be: When the DNC does exactly those moves you predicted would occur, these groups would continue to defect from the DNC. Block DNC initiatives and propose policies that help regular Americans while hurting the DNC pillars of wall street and SJW's/corporations.

Blocking the SJWs is priority number one, as they are the main DNC faction on the ground level that would stay loyal to the DNC to the end. The SJWs simply would have to be defeated. Anything that hurts the boomer's would be helpful as they are main drivers behind SJW-ism. Block Kamala's power play for the presidency when it occurs.

I don't know, the Panama Canal (an old Neo Con project as I see it that proved to be valuable down the road for America and the world for that matter) came in handy during World War II. The DNC has already informed us of their next move and basically giving them a couple of Senate seats as revenge for GOPer's aiding and assisting with Trumps loss would place the DNC and Joe Biden in a very precarious situation (preferably, I want them in the position of making the move with all eyes on them) with all the consequences being on them for whatever ensues here as well as aboard. Like I said, it's their necks that will be in the noose not ours and I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Trump sees it too. I'm in business, so taking a risk by placing the risk in their hands makes sense to me.

[pbrower2a]

(12-12-2020, 06:02 PM)CH86 Wrote:

(12-12-2020, 05:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The question is what the conservative opponents of Donald Trump do. Maybe they take over an existing Third Party (Reform? Constitution?) or form their own. Maybe they take over weak Democratic Parties in some states (let us say Oklahoma) and offer some different, more coherent, form of conservatism as an alternative.   

Democracy needs a contest between viable liberal or social-democratic parties and a viable conservatism, both of which have principles higher than 'sticking it' to their opposition. Much of the problem is that the conservative side of the American political system has installed power above principle and service. That must change. It may be the 2024 election makes that clear.

But the Reason the conservatives are stubbornly trying to block the results isn't because of some unreasonable conservative opposition to democracy, But because the liberal side is forcing through radical SJWs as their nominees. Trump would have had no problem conceding if Bernie/Tulsi had won the primary and subsequently won the election. However the DNC cheated in order to force feed their "Culture Wars" candidate and made their intentions crystal clear by making the most prominent advocates of SJW authoritarian "Liberalism" their VP choice. Why do you think there was such intense opposition to her candidacy throughout the 2020 primary and veepstakes, and intense opposition to Hillary's campaign in 2016 for that matter. The So-called "moderate" democrats are clearly the real radicals and that has been clear for the last 5 years.

Wrong. 

First, let us call them what they really are: semi-fascists. They show a disdain for democracy unless it serves their ends.  "Democracy" that works only in the service of one political side? That is simply a cover for dictatorship, as is typical in fascist, Commie, and Ba'athist states. Iran has that sort of 'democracy'. People have been executed in Iran for saying things that the regime does not like.

The conservatives that I used to know in American politics had a respect for tradition. One part of the American political tradition is that we accept political results that we dislike even if after the fact we despise and ridicule some of the politicians that we end up with.  This effort to set aside electoral results because one dislikes them is contrary to that tradition. The 2020 Presidential election is fair and clean, run in accordance with the sorts of controls of electoral devices and materials as well as auditing tests of the integrity of the polls (as in the number of voters and ballots is essentially identical, that procedures that stop absentee ballots from being counted if the voter is dead are in place). In my township the clerk reads the obituaries to strike the name of the deceased from the list of eligible voters. Both Parties have insisted upon rigorous methods to ensure the integrity of the election and have gotten their wish. 

The changes in electoral rules were approved before voting was underway, and they were changed to ensure that people could vote without fear of contracting COVID-19. From what I understand, my community required people to wear face masks while voting. So more people voted than usual? Expansion of the electorate by lawful procedure  is better than holding an election in a climate of undue danger.    
   
Claiming that Trump would not have  sought to overturn the election had some other Democrat won is bunk. It is not up to him to decide which opponent is the one to which he will concede. If a political leader can choose his opponent, then such is not democracy. 

Furthermore, it is not up to any state official to veto the voting result of another state. Neither is it acceptable for a state legislature or a Governor to nullify the result of an election in favor of a result of his choosing. Texas has no control over voting in Pennsylvania!

[Classic-Xer]

(12-12-2020, 05:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-12-2020, 04:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: CH86

(12-12-2020, 02:17 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-11-2020, 03:01 PM)CH86 Wrote: Classic is only incorrect in that he sees a purely GOP base movement leading the struggle against the DNC. Eric, Pbrower and B Butler Saying that democrats outnumber Trumps post-election diehards is only technically correct, and barely so. It is correct only based on the current alignments of november/december 2020 that exist as we currently speak. But the Great Realignment I speak of is relevant for 2022-2023, said realignment hasn't taken place yet. Moderates, Progressives, and Anti-Trump republicans have no reason to remain allied with Liberals if Trump leaves. The Only reason Kamala is part of the ticket is because the 60s radicals and church blacks threatened not to vote for their own nominee if she wasn't on the ticket.
 

We are leading it now and I expect that will continue throughout the struggle with the DNC.

While Trump's base obviously will stand against the DNC and already does so: Other Factions currently neutral and/or loosely/technically aligned with the dems currently will not be so by the time of the 2023-24 showdown. The Final alignment hasn't taken place yet, and that will feature practically everyone else versus the DNC diehards. Regarding the DNC, the current situation is like when Japan Turned toward Midway in 1942 instead of moving against Australia.

...except that Thug Japan (not to be confused with the politically-civilized Japan since the Second World War) was committing a sequence of aggressive acts.  On some history forum I suggested that the Battle of Midway was intended by Japan to be a prelude to an assault on Hawaii.  Just look at a map of the Pacific Ocean and tell me what is between Hawaii and California: a huge expanse of water. Oceans are easy places to move ships but offer no points of defense. With Japan inside the Japanese defensive perimeter and impossible to take back, the United States would have had no means of preventing Australia and New Zealand from being devoured by much-larger Japanese military forces. 

But back to the point: we usually alternate between Parties in the Presidency. Two terms for a Party is the norm. Trump must have done enough wrong to not get re-elected. People usually get accustomed to what they have, and the incumbent President typically has enough exposure in the media to get his point across.  

Quote:Dem leaders alienated most of their more vibrant parts of their coalition by essentially cheating several times in the 2020 primary, however the New blocs are still politically inexperienced enough to have been swayed one final time by the DNC propaganda. However the GOP did make some inroads there, the situation there (with the Young and younger urban and suburban minorities) is like a giant river dam which is beginning a spring a leak, it is a small leak but ANY leak indicates a catastrophic failure. The river will burst through en masse.

Nice physical analogies, but without the virtue of reality behind them. I am surprised that Trump actually won more voters and got his percentage of the vote up 1%. This said, Donald Trump had severe faults as a leader, including a lack of experience in political reality.  Maybe the next right-wing @$$hole will appeal with more sophistication to the moral sewer of bigotry, anger, and resentment... but will that right-wing @$$hole succeed? I am not in the prophecy business. That's Eric's department and not mine.  

Quote:So, what do you think the Republican/Trump base should do about the old GOP/Anti-Trump wing who just (expletive deleted) them? (profanities deleted)... handing a couple Senate seats to a couple of Democratic senators ... it will be their necks with the rope around them and let the stock reaction do the dirty work for us. It's the only way that I know to send the Wall Street hacks as message that we mean business. So, where do you live, do you live within the fray or outside the fray? I live outside the fray but close enough to the fray to add to the fray and there are enough us to keep our areas safe during the fray that's coming.

The question is what the conservative opponents of Donald Trump do. Maybe they take over an existing Third Party (Reform? Constitution?) or form their own. Maybe they take over weak Democratic Parties in some states (let us say Oklahoma) and offer some different, more coherent, form of conservatism as an alternative.   

Democracy needs a contest between viable liberal or social-democratic parties and a viable conservatism, both of which have principles higher than 'sticking it' to their opposition. Much of the problem is that the conservative side of the American political system has installed power above principle and service. That must change. It may be the 2024 election makes that clear.

Who cares? The Republican base has already moved on. It won't be long and Democrats will be Democrats and everyone else around them will be more Republican. Back in 2016 during the Republican primaries, did you see any candidates trying to buy their way in with us? As far as I can see, the liberal side has no principles at this point. I'm telling you whatever integrity it had left it lost. The ingredient that holds the Democratic party together is the almighty tax dollar. I wasn't born yesterday. Unfortunately, Biden is the last chance and if I'm right about his condition which I assume was mainly hid from the Democratic electorate. History will record this 3t/4T cluster fuck with the faces of 4 US Presidents who were in office over the coarse of the next four years or possibly five if Harris turns out to be completely incompetent.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-13-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't know, the Panama Canal (an old Neo Con project as I see it that proved to be valuable down the road for America and the world for that matter) came in handy during World War II.

Agreed the canal was a good move at the time.

Still, the Neo cons have been much reduced in influence since the Middle East wars started getting ugly. The idea of flexing our military power and Neo colonialism is far less popular. It is recognized that the attempt destabilized the Middle East, and that while we are very good at conventional war, the Pentagon is right that it takes many more boots on the ground than it is expedient to field to win an insurgency. While the Middle Eastern wars were not crisis wars for us, we seem to have gained the usual war aversion that is usually picked up in a crisis. The ugliness of the Iraq war is in living memory. Proxy war gives the advantage to the locals backed by an external power.

I see the Neo cons as a faded force.

[Bob Butler 54]

(12-13-2020, 04:34 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Who cares? The Republican base has already moved on. It won't be long and Democrats will be Democrats and everyone else around them will be more Republican. Back in 2016 during the Republican primaries, did you see any candidates trying to buy their way in with us? As far as I can see, the liberal side has no principles at this point. I'm telling you whatever integrity it had left it lost. The ingredient that holds the Democratic party together is the almighty tax dollar. I wasn't born yesterday. Unfortunately, Biden is the last chance and if I'm right about his condition which I assume was mainly hid from the Democratic electorate. History will record this 3t/4T cluster fuck with the faces of 4 US Presidents who were in office over the coarse of the next four years or possibly five if Harris turns out to be completely incompetent.

I’m guessing you are wrong. The Republicans had the advantage through the unraveling. They ran on small government, not solving problems, low taxes, subtle racism that tried to walk back Martin Luther King’s gains, and shifting things in favor of the elites. LBJ picked up the black vote, Nixon the racist, the racists won, and the progressive era ended.

Come the crisis, you have to solve the crisis problems. Competency in problem solving is a key, where the Republicans are more used to obstructing attempts to solve problems. One of the crisis problems is confronting racism. With the economy messed up by the bug, I see no alternative to getting the elites to pay their share. We could see the same sort of three turning progressive era as last time.

This doesn’t mean all conservative ideas are bad, that there should not be a counterweight to the progressives. But, turnings turn.

[pbrower2a]

(12-12-2020, 06:33 PM)Einzige Wrote: Kautskyite social democracy and conservatism are functionally identical.

Kautsky, a social democrat and a pacifist of Jewish origin (and obviously an anathema to the Nazi) broke with Lenin on dictatorship. Socialism without democracy is a monstrosity as vile as fascism which makes no claim to social justice.