Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
(01-18-2021, 10:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The Regeneracy may be nigh. We are going to see the repudiation of much political craziness all at once. Difference that results from ethnicity, religion, gender, gender preference, class, and region will be tolerated. Sheer craziness will be mocked and disregarded, if not suppressed.
We can all be glad that the Regeneracy isn't America joining together under a Trump banner. We generally recognize how close we were to having a serious blow-up in the Capitol, especially if members of Congress had been killed.
The regeneracy may be America joining together under a Trump banner for a term to make things right again and break up a political monopoly of sorts and clean up the corruption (drain the swamp) associated with Washington DC . We had a serious blow up take place in the capitol and we are fortunate that only a few lives were lost and the damage to the capitol building was minor and the formal procedure to finalize the election result was able to proceed and the election result wasn't changed or altered as a result. The ball is now in the hands of the Democrats and the Democrats are the ones who have been acting pretty crazy, foolish, selfish and irresponsible lately.
Posts: 10,465
Threads: 197
Joined: May 2016
(01-19-2021, 02:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2021, 10:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The Regeneracy may be nigh. We are going to see the repudiation of much political craziness all at once. Difference that results from ethnicity, religion, gender, gender preference, class, and region will be tolerated. Sheer craziness will be mocked and disregarded, if not suppressed.
We can all be glad that the Regeneracy isn't America joining together under a Trump banner. We generally recognize how close we were to having a serious blow-up in the Capitol, especially if members of Congress had been killed.
The regeneracy may be America joining together under a Trump banner for a term to make things right again and break up a political monopoly of sorts and clean up the corruption (drain the swamp) associated with Washington DC . We had a serious blow up take place in the capitol and we are fortunate that only a few lives were lost and the damage to the capitol building was minor and the formal procedure to finalize the election result was able to proceed and the election result wasn't changed or altered as a result. The ball is now in the hands of the Democrats and the Democrats are the ones who have been acting pretty crazy, foolish, selfish and irresponsible lately.
"Under a Trump banner"? Should I get a dog (I may qualify for a therapy dog) I might use one of those -- as a dog blanket. The dog won't care about the politics, and I consider the use of such a banner an appropriate -- desecration. The ones that got into the Capitol building were a disgrace. No prior President -- not even the Barack Obama that you so hate -- welcomed anything like that in the Capitol.
The damage to the institutions of the federal legislative system is incalculable.
Democrats did not challenge any Republican electors or even try to persuade any to vote in protest of the events of January 6.
There is at least one federal capital offense (killing of a Capitol Police officer), and the insurrection has a high likelihood of doing even more killing as a super-spreader event. We have surpassed 403,000 deaths from Covid, which is more than the 2019 estimate of the population of Tulsa, Oklahoma, the 47th-largest city in the USA. So more people will die as the result of the insurrection from COVID-19 than from any direct violence.
Do you know what would have been really deadly? The institution of a dictatorship. Imagine Donald Trump getting an extended and illegal term as President, and people like those calling the shorts (including sending people to torture chambers, execution sites, and concentration camps). Imagine people starving or dying of the cold because these people believe that no human suffering can be opposed so long as such supports the power, indulgence, and greed of rapacious and irresponsible elites. Imagine wars for profit as in invasions of Cuba, Venezuela, and perhaps Iran. Whoops! The latter one will go badly because the corrupt, despotic, intolerant mullahs will use Iranian nationalism against Americans bringing booze, bikinis, and Bibles to Iran just as Stalin was able to exploit Russian nationalism against the Nazis.
Donald Trump has no moral compass.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
01-20-2021, 01:14 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2021, 01:50 AM by Classic-Xer.)
(01-18-2021, 12:20 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-18-2021, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The federal regeneracy is going to fall flat on its face. Trump had less than a month to try and prove the impossible pertaining to mass voter fraud. The Supreme Court decided it was best for them to remain neutral. You better get your facts straight because the Democrats are the only game in town and the only group left to blame at this point. We may decide to keep it that way and leave the party for the barbarians to finish off. Welcome to the 4T. The beginning of the end of the Democratic party as a whole starts this Wednesday.
Massive voter fraud can't be easily hidden, so yes, one month was more than enough time to find evidence -- any evidence -- yet none was found.
It can be hidden when elections laws are changed illegally and left as is for the most part and the voter turn out is much higher on both sides than normal across the entire country. Okay. You won by default because the numbers weren't heavily skewed. You elected a President who is mentally incompetent and you have a VP who isn't there because she's great or she's popular or she was really good at governing a state or managing anything important (including her own Presidential campaign) . So, what should happen to you and the others here who didn't use their brains, didn't listen, didn't care and those who are dumb enough or desperate enough or greedy enough or deviant enough to go along with electing Biden.
Here's the deal, you are about to face the wrath of the American people and about to experience a repeat of American history and the Democrats are probably (maybe there's enough worth while Democrats left who are willing to fall on their swords to prevent the inevitable collision between the Left and the American right) on the verge of being removed by force or left to be over run by an angry hoard of barbarians that it created as the rest of America watches. Either way, your time (the time of the Progressive Democrats) is coming to an end. In short, you have met your match. Eric has met his match and PB and Bob will prove to be worthless non factors when the all the violence and disruption starts.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
01-20-2021, 02:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2021, 02:30 AM by Classic-Xer.)
(01-19-2021, 09:45 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (01-19-2021, 02:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2021, 10:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The Regeneracy may be nigh. We are going to see the repudiation of much political craziness all at once. Difference that results from ethnicity, religion, gender, gender preference, class, and region will be tolerated. Sheer craziness will be mocked and disregarded, if not suppressed.
We can all be glad that the Regeneracy isn't America joining together under a Trump banner. We generally recognize how close we were to having a serious blow-up in the Capitol, especially if members of Congress had been killed.
The regeneracy may be America joining together under a Trump banner for a term to make things right again and break up a political monopoly of sorts and clean up the corruption (drain the swamp) associated with Washington DC . We had a serious blow up take place in the capitol and we are fortunate that only a few lives were lost and the damage to the capitol building was minor and the formal procedure to finalize the election result was able to proceed and the election result wasn't changed or altered as a result. The ball is now in the hands of the Democrats and the Democrats are the ones who have been acting pretty crazy, foolish, selfish and irresponsible lately.
"Under a Trump banner"? Should I get a dog (I may qualify for a therapy dog) I might use one of those -- as a dog blanket. The dog won't care about the politics, and I consider the use of such a banner an appropriate -- desecration. The ones that got into the Capitol building were a disgrace. No prior President -- not even the Barack Obama that you so hate -- welcomed anything like that in the Capitol.
The damage to the institutions of the federal legislative system is incalculable.
Democrats did not challenge any Republican electors or even try to persuade any to vote in protest of the events of January 6.
There is at least one federal capital offense (killing of a Capitol Police officer), and the insurrection has a high likelihood of doing even more killing as a super-spreader event. We have surpassed 403,000 deaths from Covid, which is more than the 2019 estimate of the population of Tulsa, Oklahoma, the 47th-largest city in the USA. So more people will die as the result of the insurrection from COVID-19 than from any direct violence.
Do you know what would have been really deadly? The institution of a dictatorship. Imagine Donald Trump getting an extended and illegal term as President, and people like those calling the shorts (including sending people to torture chambers, execution sites, and concentration camps). Imagine people starving or dying of the cold because these people believe that no human suffering can be opposed so long as such supports the power, indulgence, and greed of rapacious and irresponsible elites. Imagine wars for profit as in invasions of Cuba, Venezuela, and perhaps Iran. Whoops! The latter one will go badly because the corrupt, despotic, intolerant mullahs will use Iranian nationalism against Americans bringing booze, bikinis, and Bibles to Iran just as Stalin was able to exploit Russian nationalism against the Nazis.
Donald Trump has no moral compass.
Biden has no moral compass. You are about as messed up as Bob at this point. We've had 403,000 people die of COVID and there will be thousands more dying of COVID while Biden/Harris are in office. I can't wait to start calling your President a murderer and associating him with a dictatorship and the actions of racist blacks that won't touch and I can't wait to really start cracking down hard on low life piss ants and slugs like you who come across as clueless partisan hacks and demagogues too. You don't want a dog you that won't be able to afford to feed or take care of in a few years.
Posts: 3,956
Threads: 11
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 02:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Biden has no moral compass. You are about as messed up as Bob at this point. We've had 403,000 people die of COVID and there will be thousands more dying of COVID while Biden/Harris are in office. I can't wait to start calling your President a murderer and associating him with a dictatorship and the actions of racist blacks that won't touch and I can't wait to really start cracking down hard on low life piss ants and slugs like you who come across as clueless partisan hacks and demagogues too. You don't want a dog you that won't be able to afford to feed or take care of in a few years.
Somebody is messed up. I have already noted that you have redefined racist backwards. If you can project the number of deaths that would have occurred if the rest of the world’s death rate were applied to the US, and subtract that off from the deaths that actually occurred. The difference would be Trump’s negligent homicides. Biden’s death rate is apt to be higher than the world’s because Trump has already trained his followers not to take precautions, but I would sooner put the difference on Trump not Biden. Biden is looking to follow the science, to do what he can to cut the death rate, to maximize vaccine distribution, to put the economy back to normal as soon as possible.
The last post is typical of your messed up attitude.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Posts: 10,465
Threads: 197
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 02:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-19-2021, 09:45 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (01-19-2021, 02:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2021, 10:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The Regeneracy may be nigh. We are going to see the repudiation of much political craziness all at once. Difference that results from ethnicity, religion, gender, gender preference, class, and region will be tolerated. Sheer craziness will be mocked and disregarded, if not suppressed.
We can all be glad that the Regeneracy isn't America joining together under a Trump banner. We generally recognize how close we were to having a serious blow-up in the Capitol, especially if members of Congress had been killed.
The regeneracy may be America joining together under a Trump banner for a term to make things right again and break up a political monopoly of sorts and clean up the corruption (drain the swamp) associated with Washington DC . We had a serious blow up take place in the capitol and we are fortunate that only a few lives were lost and the damage to the capitol building was minor and the formal procedure to finalize the election result was able to proceed and the election result wasn't changed or altered as a result. The ball is now in the hands of the Democrats and the Democrats are the ones who have been acting pretty crazy, foolish, selfish and irresponsible lately.
"Under a Trump banner"? Should I get a dog (I may qualify for a therapy dog) I might use one of those -- as a dog blanket. The dog won't care about the politics, and I consider the use of such a banner an appropriate -- desecration. The ones that got into the Capitol building were a disgrace. No prior President -- not even the Barack Obama that you so hate -- welcomed anything like that in the Capitol.
The damage to the institutions of the federal legislative system is incalculable.
Democrats did not challenge any Republican electors or even try to persuade any to vote in protest of the events of January 6.
There is at least one federal capital offense (killing of a Capitol Police officer), and the insurrection has a high likelihood of doing even more killing as a super-spreader event. We have surpassed 403,000 deaths from Covid, which is more than the 2019 estimate of the population of Tulsa, Oklahoma, the 47th-largest city in the USA. So more people will die as the result of the insurrection from COVID-19 than from any direct violence.
Do you know what would have been really deadly? The institution of a dictatorship. Imagine Donald Trump getting an extended and illegal term as President, and people like those calling the shorts (including sending people to torture chambers, execution sites, and concentration camps). Imagine people starving or dying of the cold because these people believe that no human suffering can be opposed so long as such supports the power, indulgence, and greed of rapacious and irresponsible elites. Imagine wars for profit as in invasions of Cuba, Venezuela, and perhaps Iran. Whoops! The latter one will go badly because the corrupt, despotic, intolerant mullahs will use Iranian nationalism against Americans bringing booze, bikinis, and Bibles to Iran just as Stalin was able to exploit Russian nationalism against the Nazis.
Donald Trump has no moral compass.
Biden has no moral compass.
We shall see. Do you even know what a moral compass is? Agreement with you is not a moral compass.
Quote:You are about as messed up as Bob at this point.
That's nice to know. Bob seems very rational to me.
Quote:We've had 403,000 people die of COVID and there will be thousands more dying of COVID while Biden/Harris are in office.
After we get the new infections down, we will have some lag between the infections and deaths. Deaths are a lagging indicator. Getting the number of new infections down now reduces to logistics of immunization. I want my pair and have sought them. The next batch available for me is at least a month away.
Quote:I can't wait to start calling your President a murderer and associating him with a dictatorship and the actions of racist blacks that won't touch and I can't wait to really start cracking down hard on low life piss ants and slugs like you who come across as clueless partisan hacks and demagogues too. You don't want a dog you that won't be able to afford to feed or take care of in a few years.
It is far easier to trust Joe Biden than it was to trust Donald Trump four years ago. I am 65 and I take care of myself. I could take care of the dog on less money that many people use on booze. If I have a therapy dog, then dog food and veterinary bills are covered. Sure, I have some medical dreads (somehow I have avoided diabetes, but then there is Parkinsonism that my mother had, circulatory failure, and the usual fears of cancer, uremia, strokes, and heart attacks... but I would know enough to give up the dog if I became too erratic to keep it.
It is far easier to take Joe Biden, a devout Christian, much more easily at his word than someone who grabs women by their "kitty-cats", has sleazy practices in business, uses Orwellian Newspeak, baits the handicapped, exudes ethnic and religious bigotry, and lied to get people to make a mockery of an election to nullify it. Al Gore, who gets much respect for taking the honorable course in recognizing a loss in which he had questions, contrasts to Donald Trump. Even if the difference in the election were the sleazy behavior of some urban machine pols ... Trump had people risking their lives, their freedom, severe injuries, prison terms, job losses, and economic ruin for interrupting a legal formality.
Will Joe Biden be a great President? I am not sure. Donald Trump has made a travesty of the Presidency... and thank God that the damage is too slight to undo the American political heritage.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
Posts: 3,956
Threads: 11
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 01:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We shall see. Do you (Classic) even know what a moral compass is? Agreement with you is not a moral compass.
I don't know. If you add the moral equivalent of 180 degrees you wind up with something vaguely right.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
01-20-2021, 03:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2021, 03:24 PM by Classic-Xer.)
(01-20-2021, 01:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We shall see. Do you even know what a moral compass is? Agreement with you is not a moral compass.
I have a moral compass that I've learned to trust over the years. You don't have one. Your moral compass died years ago. Whether you agree with me/it or not doesn't matter to me because I understand that its a matter of choice at this point.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 10:22 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Somebody is messed up. I have already noted that you have redefined racist backwards. If you can project the number of deaths that would have occurred if the rest of the world’s death rate were applied to the US, and subtract that off from the deaths that actually occurred. The difference would be Trump’s negligent homicides. Biden’s death rate is apt to be higher than the world’s because Trump has already trained his followers not to take precautions, but I would sooner put the difference on Trump not Biden. Biden is looking to follow the science, to do what he can to cut the death rate, to maximize vaccine distribution, to put the economy back to normal as soon as possible.
The last post is typical of your messed up attitude.
I don't get into racism and stirring up racism and jumping on racist band wagons like you and most of the Democrats do these days. I don't care if the Democrats do/say something stupid that starts a race war or do something stupid that results in a large scale American revolt or do nothing at all which results in them being over run by barbarian hoards and persecuted by a WEIRD cult. I know America ain't going to go along and put up with it for very along.
Posts: 3,956
Threads: 11
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-20-2021, 01:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We shall see. Do you even know what a moral compass is? Agreement with you is not a moral compass.
I have a moral compass that I've learned to trust over the years. You don't have one. Your moral compass died years ago. Whether you agree with me/it or not doesn't matter to me because I understand that its a matter of choice at this point.
From the angle of the moral psychologist Haidt and his The Righteous Mind book, everyone has a moral compass. It is instinctive, firm, fast, and doesn't change unless one sees a total failure of values. Once you absorb the family teaching and perhaps a youthful search, that is it, locked. All the rational part of the mind can do is try to justify one's instincts. A few weeks ago, it looked like the COVID deaths, the failed economy resulting from the COVID inaction, the bad cops practicing racial injustice, and the capitol insurrection don't add up for a lot of people as a total failure.
Today? The hope is from the mourning of the COVID dead, the lack of further insurgency, MLK day, and the poor turnout as Trump flew off into the sunset. There might have been an enthusiastic crowd waving flags at the airport, much as happened on January 6. Instead you saw a small, dejected, defeated guy. It seems a lot of people are finally seeing a total failure. Too soon to tell for sure, but some of the signs are there. The collapse of conservative values I have long predicted may be starting.
Classic? I don't know that he will see it.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 04:05 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (01-20-2021, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-20-2021, 01:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We shall see. Do you even know what a moral compass is? Agreement with you is not a moral compass.
I have a moral compass that I've learned to trust over the years. You don't have one. Your moral compass died years ago. Whether you agree with me/it or not doesn't matter to me because I understand that its a matter of choice at this point.
From the angle of the moral psychologist Haidt and his The Righteous Mind book, everyone has a moral compass. It is instinctive, firm, fast, and doesn't change unless one sees a total failure of values. Once you absorb the family teaching and perhaps a youthful search, that is it, locked. All the rational part of the mind can do is try to justify one's instincts. A few weeks ago, it looked like the COVID deaths, the failed economy resulting from the COVID inaction, the bad cops practicing racial injustice, and the capitol insurrection don't add up for a lot of people as a total failure.
Today? The hope is from the mourning of the COVID dead, the lack of further insurgency, MLK day, and the poor turnout as Trump flew off into the sunset. There might have been an enthusiastic crowd waving flags at the airport, much as happened on January 6. Instead you saw a small, dejected, defeated guy. It seems a lot of people are finally seeing a total failure. Too soon to tell for sure, but some of the signs are there. The collapse of conservative values I have long predicted may be starting.
Classic? I don't know that he will see it.
You keep talking about the collapse of conservative values that I refer to as traditional American values that are directly related to you and much of the Democratic population that exists today. The Democratic party has now been placed in charge of its own fate and the fate of a portion of the country ( the people directly related to it and the people reliant on it and those who have greatly benefited from being related) that it currently controls.
Posts: 10,465
Threads: 197
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 06:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-20-2021, 04:05 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (01-20-2021, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-20-2021, 01:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: We shall see. Do you even know what a moral compass is? Agreement with you is not a moral compass.
I have a moral compass that I've learned to trust over the years. You don't have one. Your moral compass died years ago. Whether you agree with me/it or not doesn't matter to me because I understand that its a matter of choice at this point.
From the angle of the moral psychologist Haidt and his The Righteous Mind book, everyone has a moral compass. It is instinctive, firm, fast, and doesn't change unless one sees a total failure of values. Once you absorb the family teaching and perhaps a youthful search, that is it, locked. All the rational part of the mind can do is try to justify one's instincts. A few weeks ago, it looked like the COVID deaths, the failed economy resulting from the COVID inaction, the bad cops practicing racial injustice, and the capitol insurrection don't add up for a lot of people as a total failure.
Today? The hope is from the mourning of the COVID dead, the lack of further insurgency, MLK day, and the poor turnout as Trump flew off into the sunset. There might have been an enthusiastic crowd waving flags at the airport, much as happened on January 6. Instead you saw a small, dejected, defeated guy. It seems a lot of people are finally seeing a total failure. Too soon to tell for sure, but some of the signs are there. The collapse of conservative values I have long predicted may be starting.
Classic? I don't know that he will see it.
You keep talking about the collapse of conservative values that I refer to as traditional American values that are directly related to you and much of the Democratic population that exists today. The Democratic party has now been placed in charge of its own fate and the fate of a portion of the country ( the people directly related to it and the people reliant on it and those who have greatly benefited from being related) that it currently controls.
If you talk about conservative values relating to economics, then support of a free market, the development of skill, thrift as a virtue, enterprise as a solution to distress, and integrity in business dealings are pragmatism. A non-market economy, a social order that consigns people to poverty by denying opportunity, an attitude of living only in and for the moment, excessive trust in bureaucratized monopolies, and chicanery in ordinary business dealings practically ensure poverty. Those values well suit the middle class, the more skilled part of the working class, and the rich well. They well serve the Model Minorities who have fared better than average.
Grinding poverty serves nobody well. The ideal is to get people out of poverty, and the consumer economy is usually a good-enough spur. Hunger and homelessness may sting harder, but they also make people less able to compete.
We have been stuck with a plutocratic ethos that began with Reagan and a flawed dream and has culminated in the catastrophic failure that is Donald Trump. Donald Trump is in essence a juvenile delinquent who has never grown up and has instead gotten away with what he has gotten away with only because someone has covered for him or he has had the means of buying his way out of any problem.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
Posts: 3,956
Threads: 11
Joined: May 2016
(01-20-2021, 06:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You keep talking about the collapse of conservative values that I refer to as traditional American values that are directly related to you and much of the Democratic population that exists today. The Democratic party has now been placed in charge of its own fate and the fate of a portion of the country ( the people directly related to it and the people reliant on it and those who have greatly benefited from being related) that it currently controls.
The values I see as ready to collapse include racism, sexism, elitism, anti science, and the use of lies to create political fantasies.
There is much positive that is associated with the cavalier, rural, conservative part of America. The above factors are not among them.
Now you have not loudly advocated any of them. You may have been fooled by some of the lies. You have have bought into the conservative fantasies. But you don't seem to spend a lot of time ranting in favor of the questionable traits of the Republican Party.
I see a struggle about to commence for what is left of the Republican Party. A few days ago, I believe Trump had the advantage over the Establishment and traditional conservatives. Now, with the lack of people showing up for Trump's goodbye at Andrews, I am not so sure. January 6th's big crowds, Trump flags and fanatic loyalty to Trump was totally missing. The expected insurgencies didn't materialize. Biden was able to set the tone.
Now if conservatives could let go of Trump, if the rejection of the establishment and the elites that was featured in the Tea Party days could return, if the Lincoln Project and similar disgruntled conservatives could bring together the remnants of the party...
We'll have to see.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Posts: 4,336
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2016
(01-18-2021, 05:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (01-18-2021, 03:12 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-18-2021, 02:54 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (01-18-2021, 12:16 PM)David Horn Wrote: Bob, we couldn't disagree more on this issue. Note the unique quality of the 2nd Amendment in clarifying the justification for the "right to bear arms", then find another example of a similar justification elsewhere in the document. That can't be an accident. So ignoring the need to arm the militia just to extend the "right" to everyone is illogic at its worst. Eventually, that will be noted in a reversal similar to others that have occurred from time to time. But even now, the right is not absolute -- none are.
No right guarantees the ability to harm another or violate another's rights. Is there another limit you would place on rights? Can you give an example?
Our disagreement runs much deeper. I don't see a modern "right to bear arms" because the reason for one in the past no longer exists today. We now rely on professional policing and military organizations to provide the services originally provided by militias. Even more to the point, an antiquated view of "arms" in no way covers the kind of firepower we can bring to bear using modern weapons. That's not to say that ownership and use of firearms should be prohibited. I don't think that's true either. But restrictions on weaponry should not be construed to be limited by a constitutional right-- especially one that has no purpose in the modern age. We have rational restrictions on everything that can do harm. Firearms have no other purpose, so they should more than qualify. At some point, that much more rational view will be validated again, and this period of full rights will be considered an aberration.
That's all for later. For now, let's lean hard on Scalia's version of a limited right, and agree that this in no way mandates a hands-off approach in sensitive situations. The floor of the Congress is certainly one, as is every court house and other government space where activities are being performed that can and do inflame passions. People should not be intimidated by armed "citizens" when they are going about their work. I'm just as adamant about guns in bars, at sporting events and in public spaces where families go with their children.
So in short you believe in rights when they do no harm, when they do not curtail other's rights, or when nobody has another opinion?
No, that's hell-and-gone from what I wrote. My disagreement with the current interpretation of the 2nd is with the obvious avoidance of the clarifying clause " A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State". It was avoided because it is no longer true and hasn't been for a long while. If the justification disappears, and it certainly has, then the act it justifies no longer has standing. In short, the 2nd is moribund, just like the 3rd, and the basis of 7th for that matter.
On deferring to the limits left us by Scalia, I consider using them for practical reasons and only for those reasons. Adding a codicil to a false premise doesn't improve it.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Posts: 4,336
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2016
(01-20-2021, 01:14 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-18-2021, 12:20 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-18-2021, 12:54 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The federal regeneracy is going to fall flat on its face. Trump had less than a month to try and prove the impossible pertaining to mass voter fraud. The Supreme Court decided it was best for them to remain neutral. You better get your facts straight because the Democrats are the only game in town and the only group left to blame at this point. We may decide to keep it that way and leave the party for the barbarians to finish off. Welcome to the 4T. The beginning of the end of the Democratic party as a whole starts this Wednesday.
Massive voter fraud can't be easily hidden, so yes, one month was more than enough time to find evidence -- any evidence -- yet none was found.
It can be hidden when elections laws are changed illegally and left as is for the most part and the voter turn out is much higher on both sides than normal across the entire country. Okay. You won by default because the numbers weren't heavily skewed. You elected a President who is mentally incompetent and you have a VP who isn't there because she's great or she's popular or she was really good at governing a state or managing anything important (including her own Presidential campaign) . So, what should happen to you and the others here who didn't use their brains, didn't listen, didn't care and those who are dumb enough or desperate enough or greedy enough or deviant enough to go along with electing Biden.
So changing laws, or their interpretation at least, is illegal when your side loses, but perfectly fine when you win. Got it! And of course, challenges to state lawsfrom our of state are great under those same rules. Apparently the courts, including courts overseen by RW judges, don't agree.
C-Xer Wrote:Here's the deal, you are about to face the wrath of the American people and about to experience a repeat of American history and the Democrats are probably (maybe there's enough worth while Democrats left who are willing to fall on their swords to prevent the inevitable collision between the Left and the American right) on the verge of being removed by force or left to be over run by an angry hoard of barbarians that it created as the rest of America watches. Either way, your time (the time of the Progressive Democrats) is coming to an end. In short, you have met your match. Eric has met his match and PB and Bob will prove to be worthless non factors when the all the violence and disruption starts.
You seem to love threatening the wrath of the "American people", yet your side lost. So who are the 81 Million if not Americans?
As an aside: only 1%+/- of the MAGA voters are in the game. 90+% of those loudmouths are all talk. Of the remaining ~10%, most are incompetent at revolutionary action, so you have maybe 2% of 1% who will act. That's about the number that attacked Congress, and they sucked at it.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Posts: 4,336
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2016
(01-20-2021, 02:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... We've had 403,000 people die of COVID and there will be thousands more dying of COVID while Biden/Harris are in office. I can't wait to start calling your President a murderer and associating him with a dictatorship and the actions of racist blacks that won't touch and I can't wait to really start cracking down hard on low life piss ants and slugs like you who come across as clueless partisan hacks and demagogues too. You don't want a dog you that won't be able to afford to feed or take care of in a few years.
If Biden and Company do nothing, or worse: negative things, then have at it.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
01-21-2021, 03:31 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2021, 04:18 PM by Classic-Xer.)
(01-21-2021, 12:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (01-20-2021, 06:41 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You keep talking about the collapse of conservative values that I refer to as traditional American values that are directly related to you and much of the Democratic population that exists today. The Democratic party has now been placed in charge of its own fate and the fate of a portion of the country ( the people directly related to it and the people reliant on it and those who have greatly benefited from being related) that it currently controls.
The values I see as ready to collapse include racism, sexism, elitism, anti science, and the use of lies to create political fantasies.
There is much positive that is associated with the cavalier, rural, conservative part of America. The above factors are not among them.
Now you have not loudly advocated any of them. You may have been fooled by some of the lies. You have have bought into the conservative fantasies. But you don't seem to spend a lot of time ranting in favor of the questionable traits of the Republican Party.
I see a struggle about to commence for what is left of the Republican Party. A few days ago, I believe Trump had the advantage over the Establishment and traditional conservatives. Now, with the lack of people showing up for Trump's goodbye at Andrews, I am not so sure. January 6th's big crowds, Trump flags and fanatic loyalty to Trump was totally missing. The expected insurgencies didn't materialize. Biden was able to set the tone.
Now if conservatives could let go of Trump, if the rejection of the establishment and the elites that was featured in the Tea Party days could return, if the Lincoln Project and similar disgruntled conservatives could bring together the remnants of the party...
We'll have to see.
The Republican base (Trumps party) has a significant advantage (8-9 to 1-2) over the GOP establishment/traditional conservatives/Rhino's at this point. I don't see much of struggle taking place on the Republican side myself. Keep in mind, we damn near defeated the Democratic party despite all the laws that were broken and all the racial violence and the racial movements that took place and all the billions that were spent by the Uber elites and oligarchs protecting their business interests with China and foreign country's who prefer we take on the brunt of everything instead of them as usual. Did you notice the size of the crowd at Biden's inauguration? It looked really small too. I realize that the entire area was locked down for most part and we have twenty some thousand soldiers who are now stationed there as well. So, I realize that looks can be deceiving.
Posts: 2,936
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2016
01-21-2021, 04:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2021, 04:13 PM by Classic-Xer.)
(01-21-2021, 02:11 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-20-2021, 02:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... We've had 403,000 people die of COVID and there will be thousands more dying of COVID while Biden/Harris are in office. I can't wait to start calling your President a murderer and associating him with a dictatorship and the actions of racist blacks that won't touch and I can't wait to really start cracking down hard on low life piss ants and slugs like you who come across as clueless partisan hacks and demagogues too. You don't want a dog you that won't be able to afford to feed or take care of in a few years.
If Biden and Company do nothing, or worse: negative things, then have at it.
Honestly, I don't care how many Biden supporters die of COVID 19 as Biden and Company waste time figuring out how to disperse the vaccine in a responsible as well equitable way among all of its particular groups. He's lucky he only has the Democratic side to worry about pleasing right now being the American/Republican side isn't all that worried about getting it or dying from it at this point. I'm glad that I didn't watch the inauguration yesterday. I would have puked as I watched a blue cream puff Rabbi compare Biden to Moses. Oh well, that's Hollywood, the Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, the Boogeyman stuff for ya. My wife said that Garth Brooks performance was great as usual. She loves Garth Brooks.
Posts: 10,465
Threads: 197
Joined: May 2016
(01-21-2021, 04:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (01-21-2021, 02:11 PM)David Horn Wrote: (01-20-2021, 02:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... We've had 403,000 people die of COVID and there will be thousands more dying of COVID while Biden/Harris are in office. I can't wait to start calling your President a murderer and associating him with a dictatorship and the actions of racist blacks that won't touch and I can't wait to really start cracking down hard on low life piss ants and slugs like you who come across as clueless partisan hacks and demagogues too. You don't want a dog you that won't be able to afford to feed or take care of in a few years.
If Biden and Company do nothing, or worse: negative things, then have at it.
Honestly, I don't care how many Biden supporters die of COVID 19 as Biden and Company waste time figuring out how to disperse the vaccine in a responsible as well equitable way among all of its particular groups. He's lucky he only has the Democratic side to worry about pleasing right now being the American/Republican side isn't all that worried about getting it or dying from it at this point. I'm glad that I didn't watch the inauguration yesterday. I would have puked as I watched a blue cream puff Rabbi compare Biden to Moses. Oh well, that's Hollywood, the Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, the Boogeyman stuff for ya. My wife said that Garth Brooks performance was great as usual. She loves Garth Brooks.
It's state governments that are dispensing the vaccine as allocated to the states. The States are not producing the vaccine. Essential workers and vulnerable people get it first.
I notice your hatred toward people who are the wrong sort of American to you. The media have been good so far about not making deaths from COVID-19 an issue of ethnicity or political orientation. Even so, the numbers are horrible, and those so far indict the former President whose name need not be mentioned. .
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
Posts: 3,956
Threads: 11
Joined: May 2016
(01-21-2021, 05:45 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I notice your hatred toward people who are the wrong sort of American to you. The media have been good so far about not making deaths from COVID-19 an issue of ethnicity or political orientation. Even so, the numbers are horrible, and those so far indict the former President whose name need not be mentioned. .
MSNBC at least has highlighted often enough that minorities are being hit disproportionally.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
|
