Posts: 103
Threads: 9
Joined: Jul 2020
I am kinda lost (no pun intended!) on 'neo-Lost' and 'neo-Missionary'. Are those referring to the 21st Century Nomads & Prophets (born in the upcoming saeculum)? Why wouldn't they be referred to as just the next Nomads/Prophets or neo-X / neo-Boomer after the equivalents in the Millennial Saeculum? Or is this in reference to that double-cycle I see floating around here where there are two types of saecula (fragmented 1T to unification in a 4T followed by a unified 1T leading to a fragmented 4T then repeats)?
Posts: 274
Threads: 30
Joined: Mar 2019
(07-05-2021, 05:55 PM)nguyenivy Wrote: I am kinda lost (no pun intended!) on 'neo-Lost' and 'neo-Missionary'. Are those referring to the 21st Century Nomads & Prophets (born in the upcoming saeculum)? Why wouldn't they be referred to as just the next Nomads/Prophets or neo-X / neo-Boomer after the equivalents in the Millennial Saeculum? Or is this in reference to that double-cycle I see floating around here where there are two types of saecula (fragmented 1T to unification in a 4T followed by a unified 1T leading to a fragmented 4T then repeats)?
They see this 4T as more like a mini Civil War era 4T than like the WW2 4T. So they say the next prophets will be more like the Missionaries than like the Boomers.
Posts: 274
Threads: 30
Joined: Mar 2019
(07-05-2021, 09:41 AM)sbarrera Wrote: (07-05-2021, 05:42 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (07-05-2021, 05:40 AM)Captain Genet Wrote: (07-05-2021, 04:59 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: I see pornography as a form of leftism. I would ban the Millennials from most porn and ban the neo missionaries from getting abortions or from divorcing too often. I'm so used to being in a minority view of my generation I don't care if the majority doesn't want this.
Pornography is almost 100% commercial so I'd put it in the Libertarian (aka Plutocratic) sector of my compass, with some presence in the Inclusivist sector, though the latter tend to say things like:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/?s=pornography
It is socially left wing. Maybe it isn't fiscally left wing. The SJWs are for porn. Most abortion is not in those cases though. Most abortion is simply because a woman finds the baby inconvenient or in the future it will be because the baby isn't "normal" when we can test fetal neurology. What about the suffering the baby goes through?
There is literally a link here to a feminist site filled with articles condemning pornography. So how can you say that "SJWs are for porn?" Also, I bet you a big percentage of the participants at a MAGA rally are into porn. There's a lot of libertarian sentiment on that side - old Boomers and GenXers who are still into sex, drugs and rock n' roll.
The point of the "consensus list" isn't to say that either SJWs or MAGAs are having their way, but that as a whole we're approaching some kind of resolution of these issues. And I do agree with what pbrower posted, about all the harmful effects of pornography. I don't think it's good that it's become accepted, just noting that it has.
But if things resolve to go your way you win and if things resolve to go another you lose. Libertarians are socially all over the board and fiscally conservative most of the time. People can have mixes of views where one view is socially liberal and another view is socially conservative.
Acceptance doesn't matter much at the end of the day though, power and executive orders do. Covid has taught me that many rules can be enforced against the public at will whether they like them or not and the people would mostly follow it. Enforced laws and rules change behavior more than anything. So if there were executive orders against most types of porn, it wouldn't matter what the public thought. They'd be dragged kicking and screaming but couldn't do as much because the government made them do it.
Posts: 546
Threads: 59
Joined: Nov 2016
(07-06-2021, 05:13 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (07-05-2021, 09:41 AM)sbarrera Wrote: (07-05-2021, 05:42 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (07-05-2021, 05:40 AM)Captain Genet Wrote: (07-05-2021, 04:59 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: I see pornography as a form of leftism. I would ban the Millennials from most porn and ban the neo missionaries from getting abortions or from divorcing too often. I'm so used to being in a minority view of my generation I don't care if the majority doesn't want this.
Pornography is almost 100% commercial so I'd put it in the Libertarian (aka Plutocratic) sector of my compass, with some presence in the Inclusivist sector, though the latter tend to say things like:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/?s=pornography
It is socially left wing. Maybe it isn't fiscally left wing. The SJWs are for porn. Most abortion is not in those cases though. Most abortion is simply because a woman finds the baby inconvenient or in the future it will be because the baby isn't "normal" when we can test fetal neurology. What about the suffering the baby goes through?
There is literally a link here to a feminist site filled with articles condemning pornography. So how can you say that "SJWs are for porn?" Also, I bet you a big percentage of the participants at a MAGA rally are into porn. There's a lot of libertarian sentiment on that side - old Boomers and GenXers who are still into sex, drugs and rock n' roll.
The point of the "consensus list" isn't to say that either SJWs or MAGAs are having their way, but that as a whole we're approaching some kind of resolution of these issues. And I do agree with what pbrower posted, about all the harmful effects of pornography. I don't think it's good that it's become accepted, just noting that it has.
But if things resolve to go your way you win and if things resolve to go another you lose. Libertarians are socially all over the board and fiscally conservative most of the time. People can have mixes of views where one view is socially liberal and another view is socially conservative.
Acceptance doesn't matter much at the end of the day though, power and executive orders do. Covid has taught me that many rules can be enforced against the public at will whether they like them or not and the people would mostly follow it. Enforced laws and rules change behavior more than anything. So if there were executive orders against most types of porn, it wouldn't matter what the public thought. They'd be dragged kicking and screaming but couldn't do as much because the government made them do it.
I'm not sure how executive orders to stop porn would work; the idea seems laughable since there would be so much resistance from the public. Orders to enforce non-medical intervention during Covid (mask wearing, social distancing) only *partially* worked and the death toll from Covid was much higher than it might have been if people had been more aware and willing to cooperate. And frankly, I think non-medical intervention worked as well as it did because a majority of people were willing to comply. Wearing a mask is easy compared to giving up an addiction.
AspieMillennial, I will take your enthusiasm for executive orders as one more sign of your generation's loss of faith in democracy.
https://app.hedgeye.com/insights/101497-...t-insights
Steve Barrera
[A]lthough one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation. - Hagakure
Saecular Pages
Posts: 10,465
Threads: 197
Joined: May 2016
Civic generations have typically had a taste for the bland and banal. They have typically experienced an excess of adventure during the Crisis Era, and gravitate toward the familiar and even hokey. Daring creativity is not their taste (although I might not say that of some creative people such as Goya and Pollock in art, or Mozart, Messiaen, or Shostakovich in music. Shakespeare is anything but insipid!
(As for the Gilded, I consider them clearly Reactive/Nomad in childhood and early adulthood up to the Civil War but largely Civic afterward).
Just look in the all-but-trash bin in thrift stores for recorded music, and you will find plenty of GI-created pop music for GI audiences. Lawrence Welk. Guy Lombardo. Henry Mancini. It might have been cute for gimmicks at some time, but the audience for that is no more, for obvious reasons.
The Crisis of 2020 is very different from those of 1940, 1860. and 1780 for not having a shooting war as the focus even if imposing mass death. Blame Trump if you wish, but we were likely to end up with a Trump-like President who would have mangled the response to COVID-19 due to ideology if not incompetence.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
Posts: 10,013
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2016
(07-07-2021, 11:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Civic generations have typically had a taste for the bland and banal. They have typically experienced an excess of adventure during the Crisis Era, and gravitate toward the familiar and even hokey. Daring creativity is not their taste (although I might not say that of some creative people such as Goya and Pollock in art, or Mozart, Messiaen, or Shostakovich in music. Shakespeare is anything but insipid!
(As for the Gilded, I consider them clearly Reactive/Nomad in childhood and early adulthood up to the Civil War but largely Civic afterward).
Just look in the all-but-trash bin in thrift stores for recorded music, and you will find plenty of GI-created pop music for GI audiences. Lawrence Welk. Guy Lombardo. Henry Mancini. It might have been cute for gimmicks at some time, but the audience for that is no more, for obvious reasons.
The Crisis of 2020 is very different from those of 1940, 1860, and 1780 for not having a shooting war as the focus even if imposing mass death. Blame Trump if you wish, but we were likely to end up with a Trump-like President who would have mangled the response to COVID-19 due to ideology if not incompetence.
We can't say that the "crisis of 2020 is very different" from the others yet. The Crisis has 8 years to run, and the cosmic cycles could not be clearer that danger of a shooting war lies ahead in circa 2025. This usually happens toward the end of the 4th turning. Can a pattern be broken that has held so clearly? Maybe, but I would not assume this yet.
I blame Reagan for this ideology, and yes indeed it is a large part of the Crisis. It's not over though.
Posts: 10,465
Threads: 197
Joined: May 2016
(07-07-2021, 01:26 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (07-07-2021, 08:25 AM)sbarrera Wrote: (07-06-2021, 05:13 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (07-05-2021, 09:41 AM)sbarrera Wrote: (07-05-2021, 05:42 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: It is socially left wing. Maybe it isn't fiscally left wing. The SJWs are for porn. Most abortion is not in those cases though. Most abortion is simply because a woman finds the baby inconvenient or in the future it will be because the baby isn't "normal" when we can test fetal neurology. What about the suffering the baby goes through?
There is literally a link here to a feminist site filled with articles condemning pornography. So how can you say that "SJWs are for porn?" Also, I bet you a big percentage of the participants at a MAGA rally are into porn. There's a lot of libertarian sentiment on that side - old Boomers and GenXers who are still into sex, drugs and rock n' roll.
The point of the "consensus list" isn't to say that either SJWs or MAGAs are having their way, but that as a whole we're approaching some kind of resolution of these issues. And I do agree with what pbrower posted, about all the harmful effects of pornography. I don't think it's good that it's become accepted, just noting that it has.
But if things resolve to go your way you win and if things resolve to go another you lose. Libertarians are socially all over the board and fiscally conservative most of the time. People can have mixes of views where one view is socially liberal and another view is socially conservative.
Acceptance doesn't matter much at the end of the day though, power and executive orders do. Covid has taught me that many rules can be enforced against the public at will whether they like them or not and the people would mostly follow it. Enforced laws and rules change behavior more than anything. So if there were executive orders against most types of porn, it wouldn't matter what the public thought. They'd be dragged kicking and screaming but couldn't do as much because the government made them do it.
I'm not sure how executive orders to stop porn would work; the idea seems laughable since there would be so much resistance from the public. Orders to enforce non-medical intervention during Covid (mask wearing, social distancing) only *partially* worked and the death toll from Covid was much higher than it might have been if people had been more aware and willing to cooperate. And frankly, I think non-medical intervention worked as well as it did because a majority of people were willing to comply. Wearing a mask is easy compared to giving up an addiction.
AspieMillennial, I will take your enthusiasm for executive orders as one more sign of your generation's loss of faith in democracy.
https://app.hedgeye.com/insights/101497-...t-insights
You confuse willing to comply with forced to comply. The second restrictions are gone, nobody follows the old rules. It's only the law that keeps it going for many places.
Yes people are addicted. So what? Why should I have to wait 30 years for some movent to come around that will just create social taboos but not ban anything? Yes cuckold and incest porn should be banned. So should many other genres.
This will force a break in the addiction. Yes I don't have faith in democracy. My views are a minority in my generation so executive orders are the only realistic option.
If Generation X is in charge, it might tolerate a rising debt in survival mode, but one society is no longer in a survival mode, as in most of a 1T, then Generation X will (like the Lost) tend to reduce reliance upon, if not pay off, debt. See also the Gilded, which although in many ways were Civic after the Civil War, remained Reactive in fiscal policy, even paying off the public debt of the American Civil War through high tariffs. Debt has become almost as filthy a word as the f-word for copulation and the f-word for extreme-right politics.
What will constitute conservatism will change from the neoliberal economics and angry populism that melded in an incongruous, and ultimately shaky, composite. Figure that Barack Obama adopted many conservative characteristics (insistence upon protocol and precedent, acceptance of hierarchy of achievement, recognition of the validity of tradition even if such implies the acceptance of multiple traditions at once with no expectation of quick merger). Donald Trump threw those away because he associated those with Obama; by doing so he showed how good a President Obama was as a portent of the 1T and how awful Trump was. To be sure, Obama is more typical of the sort of leader that Americans end up with after the Crisis is over instead of when the Crisis is in full swing... but I see him more like Eisenhower than like any other President even if of opposite Parties, great difference in age, and huge differences in curricula vitae.
We may be headed to a social-market economy which maximizes the equity of socialism with the opportunity of free-market capitalism. So what gets shoved aside? Crony capitalism, essentially "socialism for the rich and connected" as Big Government can enforce the will of entrenched elites. The Right cast off libertarianism except to endorse monopolies and cartels and perhaps (had the opportunity arisen) some war for profits that turns into an apocalypse.
OK, now for the juicy stuff: pornography has always been suspect at best. It has usually been male-oriented because it fits the desires of frustrated men who either live in an all-male environment (ships, logging camps, prisons), are far from their spouse (traveling salesmen, and until rather recently long-haul truckers -- in recent times husband-and-wife teams have become commonplace), or have a desire for sexuality that dehumanizes or brutalizes women. If I were a woman I would insist upon a porn-free household. I can imagine pornography becoming more commonplace during the Plague of Donald Trump (COVID-19).
Abortion? People disapprove of abortion until they find themselves or their loved ones in a condition in which an abortion is necessary for at the least the life or health (including mental and reproductive) of the female. That could be a sub-teen girl. Also, some pregnancies are hopeless.
I asked my mother one time if she would have aborted me if some test (none then existed, and none does now) showed that I would be a murderous sociopath like Ted Bundy or Oskar Dirlewanger. She said yes... and I accepted her response as the only valid one. (Check the link on Dirlewanger at your own risk, as he was not only a brutal Nazi war criminal but also a PERVERT, one of the most disgusting persons who has ever lived! He is disgusting even by the abysmal standards of Nazism). I would endorse the abortion of an infant who had no chance of becoming anything other than evil. Some genetic connection to personal evil exist, and we know what most rapists are.
......
By porn I speak not of the genteel stuff in which there is some effort to express the natural beauty of a nude body. It is probably true that fit girls of a certain age can look better without clothes than with them, or with very few clothes that might focus attention on... OK, if I had to tell a teenage girl about her vagina I would teach her that it is precious, wonderful, magnificent, and delicate, and certainly unsuited to abuse and exploitation. Porn is abuse and exploitation. There has been plenty of artistic nudity across the ages and across cultures. Such is not porn.
The fault with porn is that it usually disrespects women and ensures unsatisfying results for her should her partner try to enforce his fantasy upon her. Men tend to go numb during a heterosexual orgasm (I would never try to explain gay sex), so it is the woman who should be in command. It is her feelings and not his.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
Posts: 10,013
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2016
07-07-2021, 04:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021, 04:19 PM by Eric the Green.)
Porn is not a good substitute for real life and real sexual experience. It's a bad influence. But is it the issue along with abortion to place at the top of a list of priorities? Is it the essence of the "wickedness" of our society? Must it be a matter for prohibition instead of zoning and education? I don't think so. The battle over culture is not as significant as the battle over
1. whether we are going to have an environment and climate that sustains us and all life,
2. whether we are going to have an economy and health care system that works for most people instead of for a wealthy few,
3. whether we allow mass murders to expand exponentially because of our ammosexual gun obsession and permissive gun laws (guns are a much more destructive hobby than porn),
4. whether we are going to allow our president to start wars at his whim,
5. whether we are going to pour our resources into military and nuclear might or into social and infrastructure needs,
6. whether we are going to have democracy, or oligarchy through voter suppression and outdated election and government structures,
7. whether systemic racism and suppression of diversity and immigration will continue, or instead we develop police reform and an end to racial and gender wealth gaps and profiling,
8. Whether we can learn a truly new-age worldview that sees humans as interdependent within an alive and whole, conscious universe with many spiritual dimensions, which helps foster a loving relationship with ourselves and all life, instead of seeing humans either as dependent on one creator authoritarian God who is separate from us and our world, demands exclusive loyalty, and gives orders through churches and politicians, or on the other hand as mechanical bodies who might as well be robots in a lifeless world available for manipulation for merely-material goals,
9. etc.
Is this an ongoing shift, or just a consensus view for one generation that will soon pass to another one, and thus not really too significant?
Posts: 274
Threads: 30
Joined: Mar 2019
(07-07-2021, 04:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Porn is not a good substitute for real life and real sexual experience. It's a bad influence. But is it the issue along with abortion to place at the top of a list of priorities? Is it the essence of the "wickedness" of our society? Must it be a matter for prohibition instead of zoning and education? I don't think so. The battle over culture is not as significant as the battle over
1. whether we are going to have an environment and climate that sustains us and all life,
2. whether we are going to have an economy and health care system that works for most people instead of for a wealthy few,
3. whether we allow mass murders to expand exponentially because of our ammosexual gun obsession and permissive gun laws (guns are a much more destructive hobby than porn),
4. whether we are going to allow our president to start wars at his whim,
5. whether we are going to pour our resources into military and nuclear might or into social and infrastructure needs,
6. whether we are going to have democracy, or oligarchy through voter suppression and outdated election and government structures,
7. whether systemic racism and suppression of diversity and immigration will continue, or instead we develop police reform and an end to racial and gender wealth gaps and profiling,
8. Whether we can learn a truly new-age worldview that sees humans as interdependent within an alive and whole, conscious universe with many spiritual dimensions, which helps foster a loving relationship with ourselves and all life, instead of seeing humans either as dependent on one creator authoritarian God who is separate from us and our world, demands exclusive loyalty, and gives orders through churches and politicians, or on the other hand as mechanical bodies who might as well be robots in a lifeless world available for manipulation for merely-material goals,
9. etc.
Is this an ongoing shift, or just a consensus view for one generation that will soon pass to another one, and thus not really too significant?
How will education change the issue in my generation? Only prohibition of most of it would work. It encourages perversions like cuckoldry. My generation isn't going to change unless most of it is cancelled.
Posts: 131
Threads: 5
Joined: Feb 2021
07-08-2021, 02:50 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2021, 02:55 AM by Captain Genet.)
(07-05-2021, 12:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Animals hunting other animals does not justify humans hunting other humans. Humans are different and an individual human life has too great a value just to be a victim of sport hunting and gun obsession.
I agree that individual human life has immense value and must not become a plaything, but I was thinking about humans hunting hares, deer or boars for meat.
(07-05-2021, 05:55 PM)nguyenivy Wrote: I am kinda lost (no pun intended!) on 'neo-Lost' and 'neo-Missionary'. Are those referring to the 21st Century Nomads & Prophets (born in the upcoming saeculum)? Why wouldn't they be referred to as just the next Nomads/Prophets or neo-X / neo-Boomer after the equivalents in the Millennial Saeculum? Or is this in reference to that double-cycle I see floating around here where there are two types of saecula (fragmented 1T to unification in a 4T followed by a unified 1T leading to a fragmented 4T then repeats)?
It is called the Apollonian/Dionysian polarity:
Missionary = Apollonian prophet
Lost = Apollonian nomad
Boomer = Dionysian prophet
Xer = Dionysian nomad
Posts: 131
Threads: 5
Joined: Feb 2021
(07-07-2021, 02:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: What will constitute conservatism will change from the neoliberal economics and angry populism that melded in an incongruous, and ultimately shaky, composite. Figure that Barack Obama adopted many conservative characteristics (insistence upon protocol and precedent, acceptance of hierarchy of achievement, recognition of the validity of tradition even if such implies the acceptance of multiple traditions at once with no expectation of quick merger).
I also see Inclusivism developing some conservative characteristics:
-It views money and the commercial class as suspect, much like Catholicism or Confucianism
-It is critical of 3T pop culture's worship of youth and physical beauty, much like almost any traditional culture
-It tends to respect religions and traditions. I saw Randians and transhumanists mocking Mohammed many times, and SJWs would be quick to defend him. Of course SJWs are critical of Evangelical political involvement, but I never saw them mocking Jesus.
Still, Inclusivism does not promote personal responsibility for one's action like true conservatism does. Its main impulse is to blame society.
Quote:OK, now for the juicy stuff: pornography has always been suspect at best. It has usually been male-oriented because it fits the desires of frustrated men who either live in an all-male environment (ships, logging camps, prisons), are far from their spouse (traveling salesmen, and until rather recently long-haul truckers -- in recent times husband-and-wife teams have become commonplace), or have a desire for sexuality that dehumanizes or brutalizes women. If I were a woman I would insist upon a porn-free household. I can imagine pornography becoming more commonplace during the Plague of Donald Trump (COVID-19).
(...)
By porn I speak not of the genteel stuff in which there is some effort to express the natural beauty of a nude body. It is probably true that fit girls of a certain age can look better without clothes than with them, or with very few clothes that might focus attention on... OK, if I had to tell a teenage girl about her vagina I would teach her that it is precious, wonderful, magnificent, and delicate, and certainly unsuited to abuse and exploitation. Porn is abuse and exploitation. There has been plenty of artistic nudity across the ages and across cultures. Such is not porn.
The fault with porn is that it usually disrespects women and ensures unsatisfying results for her should her partner try to enforce his fantasy upon her. Men tend to go numb during a heterosexual orgasm (I would never try to explain gay sex), so it is the woman who should be in command. It is her feelings and not his.
100& agreement here. Many men just have the desire to assert their authority over women, they get aroused from domination, and since it has become a crime IRL, they at least want to see it on screen. In all-male peer groups other men might pretend they like porn just not to come off as a weakling.
In extreme forms the same macho traits can lead to fascism, but they can also be used for good, as when a macho policeman asserts his domination over a criminal gang.
Posts: 10,013
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2016
07-08-2021, 03:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2021, 03:28 AM by Eric the Green.)
(07-08-2021, 02:50 AM)Captain Genet Wrote: (07-05-2021, 12:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Animals hunting other animals does not justify humans hunting other humans. Humans are different and an individual human life has too great a value just to be a victim of sport hunting and gun obsession.
I agree that individual human life has immense value and must not become a plaything, but I was thinking about humans hunting hares, deer or boars for meat.
I don't think humans need to do that either, anymore. We have farms, ranches, stores, and delivery guys. You can probably get meat from amazon today.
Quote:Still, Inclusivism does not promote personal responsibility for one's action like true conservatism does. Its main impulse is to blame society.
That's a good point. I think of Mike "Meathead" Stivic who is always replying to Archie about what "society" has done to people, which excuses them.
Of course, he's at least partially-correct. And the Inclusivist sector as I see it is the old Nolan classical cultural or social liberalism sector regarding civil rights and liberties, along with what you have added to it. So it's still about individual freedom to an extent, and this implies some responsibility.
I see Inclusivism as opposed to Exclusivism, which is the essence of social conservatism, both theocratic and nationalist: "our group is better and deserves to rule and dictate to others and to exclude others not in our exclusive group"
Posts: 10,013
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2016
07-08-2021, 03:32 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2021, 03:43 AM by Eric the Green.)
(07-07-2021, 05:01 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (07-07-2021, 04:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Porn is not a good substitute for real life and real sexual experience. It's a bad influence. But is it the issue along with abortion to place at the top of a list of priorities? Is it the essence of the "wickedness" of our society? Must it be a matter for prohibition instead of zoning and education? I don't think so. The battle over culture is not as significant as the battle over
1. whether we are going to have an environment and climate that sustains us and all life,
2. whether we are going to have an economy and health care system that works for most people instead of for a wealthy few,
3. whether we allow mass murders to expand exponentially because of our ammosexual gun obsession and permissive gun laws (guns are a much more destructive hobby than porn),
4. whether we are going to allow our president to start wars at his whim,
5. whether we are going to pour our resources into military and nuclear might or into social and infrastructure needs,
6. whether we are going to have democracy, or oligarchy through voter suppression and outdated election and government structures,
7. whether systemic racism and suppression of diversity and immigration will continue, or instead we develop police reform and an end to racial and gender wealth gaps and profiling,
8. Whether we can learn a truly new-age worldview that sees humans as interdependent within an alive and whole, conscious universe with many spiritual dimensions, which helps foster a loving relationship with ourselves and all life, instead of seeing humans either as dependent on one creator authoritarian God who is separate from us and our world, demands exclusive loyalty, and gives orders through churches and politicians, or on the other hand as mechanical bodies who might as well be robots in a lifeless world available for manipulation for merely-material goals,
9. etc.
Is this an ongoing shift, or just a consensus view for one generation that will soon pass to another one, and thus not really too significant?
How will education change the issue in my generation? Only prohibition of most of it would work. It encourages perversions like cuckoldry. My generation isn't going to change unless most of it is cancelled.
I guess as a liberal I just think porn is not severe enough behavior to be cancelled or punished. It is also too likely to evade the law. I don't know if education will persuade your generation or not, but in the long run, it might persuade people. Your generation commits less crime; are you sure porn has not also declined in your generation already compared to older ones? I admit I don't frequent the internet outlets that millennials tend to do. Maybe porn having gained an outlet in your generation that did not exist before, it is availability that has increased, not the inherent appeal. I think community standards could be imposed on social media and internet sites, if it hasn't already. I block folks that put porn on the sites I read or send me porn stuff.
Posts: 4,336
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2016
(07-07-2021, 12:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We can't say that the "crisis of 2020 is very different" from the others yet. The Crisis has 8 years to run, and the cosmic cycles could not be clearer that danger of a shooting war lies ahead in circa 2025. This usually happens toward the end of the 4th turning. Can a pattern be broken that has held so clearly? Maybe, but I would not assume this yet.
I blame Reagan for this ideology, and yes indeed it is a large part of the Crisis. It's not over though.
We may not agree on the timeline, but we do on the causes and potential resoutions. My fear, and I haven't wavered on this, is the failure to resolve anything more than the most mundane crisis issues, and leaving the rest to the next saeculum. Personally, I see a real potential for chaos but not for war.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Posts: 10,013
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2016
07-08-2021, 01:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2021, 01:31 PM by Eric the Green.)
(07-08-2021, 10:19 AM)David Horn Wrote: (07-07-2021, 12:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We can't say that the "crisis of 2020 is very different" from the others yet. The Crisis has 8 years to run, and the cosmic cycles could not be clearer that danger of a shooting war lies ahead in circa 2025. This usually happens toward the end of the 4th turning. Can a pattern be broken that has held so clearly? Maybe, but I would not assume this yet.
I blame Reagan for this ideology, and yes indeed it is a large part of the Crisis. It's not over though.
We may not agree on the timeline, but we do on the causes and potential resoutions. My fear, and I haven't wavered on this, is the failure to resolve anything more than the most mundane crisis issues, and leaving the rest to the next saeculum. Personally, I see a real potential for chaos but not for war.
I am usually right on timelines and major events, thanks to my inside cosmic knowledge; but not always. Rhythms repeat, and then sometimes they end or beat more softly. The indications are pretty stark though. We'll see 
Posts: 274
Threads: 30
Joined: Mar 2019
08-10-2021, 06:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2021, 06:44 PM by AspieMillennial.)
(07-08-2021, 03:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (07-07-2021, 05:01 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (07-07-2021, 04:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Porn is not a good substitute for real life and real sexual experience. It's a bad influence. But is it the issue along with abortion to place at the top of a list of priorities? Is it the essence of the "wickedness" of our society? Must it be a matter for prohibition instead of zoning and education? I don't think so. The battle over culture is not as significant as the battle over
1. whether we are going to have an environment and climate that sustains us and all life,
2. whether we are going to have an economy and health care system that works for most people instead of for a wealthy few,
3. whether we allow mass murders to expand exponentially because of our ammosexual gun obsession and permissive gun laws (guns are a much more destructive hobby than porn),
4. whether we are going to allow our president to start wars at his whim,
5. whether we are going to pour our resources into military and nuclear might or into social and infrastructure needs,
6. whether we are going to have democracy, or oligarchy through voter suppression and outdated election and government structures,
7. whether systemic racism and suppression of diversity and immigration will continue, or instead we develop police reform and an end to racial and gender wealth gaps and profiling,
8. Whether we can learn a truly new-age worldview that sees humans as interdependent within an alive and whole, conscious universe with many spiritual dimensions, which helps foster a loving relationship with ourselves and all life, instead of seeing humans either as dependent on one creator authoritarian God who is separate from us and our world, demands exclusive loyalty, and gives orders through churches and politicians, or on the other hand as mechanical bodies who might as well be robots in a lifeless world available for manipulation for merely-material goals,
9. etc.
Is this an ongoing shift, or just a consensus view for one generation that will soon pass to another one, and thus not really too significant?
How will education change the issue in my generation? Only prohibition of most of it would work. It encourages perversions like cuckoldry. My generation isn't going to change unless most of it is cancelled.
I guess as a liberal I just think porn is not severe enough behavior to be cancelled or punished. It is also too likely to evade the law. I don't know if education will persuade your generation or not, but in the long run, it might persuade people. Your generation commits less crime; are you sure porn has not also declined in your generation already compared to older ones? I admit I don't frequent the internet outlets that millennials tend to do. Maybe porn having gained an outlet in your generation that did not exist before, it is availability that has increased, not the inherent appeal. I think community standards could be imposed on social media and internet sites, if it hasn't already. I block folks that put porn on the sites I read or send me porn stuff.
Crime decreased because laws increased. People aren't magically better. I don't believe much in democracy because I know my views are in the minority in my generation. Since my views are in the minority and constantly disrespected by my generation, why should I value the same democracy that allows these people who disrespect me to have power over me? Why should I respect their views if they don't respect mine? Being in the minority in my generation absolutely made me much more hardline than I would have been otherwise.
Posts: 4,336
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2016
(08-10-2021, 06:22 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: ... I don't believe much in democracy because I know my views are in the minority in my generation. Since my views are in the minority and constantly disrespected by my generation, why should I value the same democracy that allows these people who disrespect me to have power over me? Why should I respect their views if they don't respect mine? Being in the minority in my generation absolutely made me much more hardline than I would have been otherwise.
Based on that argument, why should the rest of us accept your "right" to impose your views on us? You complain that the authorities won't pursue actions and actors you feel offend you, but seem OK with pursuing actions and actors that actually harm others you don't support. That's far beyond cynical; it's authoritarian.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Posts: 95
Threads: 10
Joined: May 2021
(07-07-2021, 11:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Shakespeare is anything but insipid!
His work is very Civic and very 1T. We overthink it enormously today, thanks to symbolism-obsessed English teachers who philosophize every word and the sort of mythology that has developed surrounding the man. As enjoyable to read and watch as the plays are, there really is very much a lack of any deep thought or meaning of any kind. It's mostly cliches, slapstick, and dirty jokes - as is to be expected for plays written by a Civic for a 1T audience. The purpose of these plays is to be silly and fun, not to make you think, and if you try to strangle some kind of philosophical vision or allegory or grand moral lesson out of it, you are missing the point. Remember, this is hugely popular mass pop culture of the time. It's the theatrical equivalent of what you hear on Top 40 radio stations today.
(07-07-2021, 12:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We can't say that the "crisis of 2020 is very different" from the others yet. The Crisis has 8 years to run, and the cosmic cycles could not be clearer that danger of a shooting war lies ahead in circa 2025.
can you elaborate on this?
2001, a very artistic hero and/or a very heroic artist
Posts: 274
Threads: 30
Joined: Mar 2019
08-11-2021, 01:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2021, 01:39 PM by AspieMillennial.)
(08-11-2021, 10:11 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-10-2021, 06:22 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: ... I don't believe much in democracy because I know my views are in the minority in my generation. Since my views are in the minority and constantly disrespected by my generation, why should I value the same democracy that allows these people who disrespect me to have power over me? Why should I respect their views if they don't respect mine? Being in the minority in my generation absolutely made me much more hardline than I would have been otherwise.
Based on that argument, why should the rest of us accept your "right" to impose your views on us? You complain that the authorities won't pursue actions and actors you feel offend you, but seem OK with pursuing actions and actors that actually harm others you don't support. That's far beyond cynical; it's authoritarian.
How else am I supposed to react if my views are in the minority? Negotiating or talking it out won't work because if you give an inch, they take a mile. Individual voices don't matter, only the "studies".
Posts: 4,336
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2016
(08-11-2021, 01:38 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (08-11-2021, 10:11 AM)David Horn Wrote: (08-10-2021, 06:22 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: ... I don't believe much in democracy because I know my views are in the minority in my generation. Since my views are in the minority and constantly disrespected by my generation, why should I value the same democracy that allows these people who disrespect me to have power over me? Why should I respect their views if they don't respect mine? Being in the minority in my generation absolutely made me much more hardline than I would have been otherwise.
Based on that argument, why should the rest of us accept your "right" to impose your views on us? You complain that the authorities won't pursue actions and actors you feel offend you, but seem OK with pursuing actions and actors that actually harm others you don't support. That's far beyond cynical; it's authoritarian.
How else am I supposed to react if my views are in the minority? Negotiating or talking it out won't work because if you give an inch, they take a mile. Individual voices don't matter, only the "studies".
When we are in the minority and unable to make the rules, we all have to ask: are we being denied personally? Inother words, are your adversaries forcing you to do something you vehemently oppose or forgo something you find essential? Being denied your "right" to never be offended by way others dress or being forced to use seatbelts in your car don't make the cut. We don't live in Iran after all.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
|
