Election 2018

[Eric the Green]

(10-30-2018, 06:09 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-29-2018, 05:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You are changing the subject again. That seems to b a favorite tactic of yours.

The subject was "unity," not "violence." We may be able to get through this 4T with less violence than previous ones, but the track record is poor. Still, as FDR showed, his tactic in dealing with his determined opposition during the 4T was not your suggested "let's just all get together and listen to each other and discuss things and find unity," as you saw in the video. He declared his intention to master his opponents. That's what Democrats need to do now again, not live under the delusion that we can talk and listen to them and just all get along and divisions can be healed. There's big money forces and entrenched ideologies and values behind the regressive forces today, just as there was then. They must be defeated politically--- and violently if they rebel violently, as they have threatened to do.

There is no evidence at all that an Information Age would be peaceful and an Industrial Age is violent, or as we were discussing, willing to "listen to each other." Maybe if the Green Meme were to attain power, which might be associated with the Information Age, that might be possible. But it takes a while for new memes to become dominant powers.

I am pushing a theory that the classic T4T patten which held reasonably well during the Industrial Age and for the Anglo American civilization will not hold in the Information Age and for all civilizations.  One cannot definitively prove or disprove the theory by demonstration yet.  The time of the fourth turning has not ended, so we cannot count violent crisis conflicts during the Information Age.  We can only watch the spiral of violence and say it has not increased beyond the lone nut level.  We can perhaps say why.  Nukes and a greater faith in democracy and non-violence may have rendered crisis conflicts obsolete.  If so, we will not see crisis conflicts as much or at all, but are more apt to see problems solved in the voting booth and during the 2T.

Saying violence was required or common during the Industrial Age 4Ts says noting about whether violence will be required or common during the Information Age.  Violence was common, necessary to shift the power of the older elites and to implement the new morals, but that is irrelevant today.   No matter how often you say things about the Industrial Age, it says nothing about the Information Age.

If I am correct, the transition to the new values will occur in the voting booth.  It almost occurred in 2016.  If Hillary had won, if eventually the Congress had gone blue reliably, there would have been a blue victory, an end to the see saw.  This did not happen.  The see saw went red again, most emphatically.  We agree that a longer term shift towards the blue must happen eventually.  Among other issues, global warming and the spiral of racist rhetoric leading to an unacceptable lone nut increase in violence must be addressed and will be addressed.  Eventually a shift in voting patterns will occur as more rural voters see this.

To my mind, it was not a coincidence that there was a switch to non-violence just as the nuke was invented and a trust in democracy achieved.  Civil rights, gender rights, how the domino theory was implemented and the environment came suddenly alive.  The lethal racism which was acceptable during the Jim Crow lynchings was suddenly not acceptable anymore.  Militarism also faded.  The habit of dominant western powers to start wars against other major powers at every opportunity faded.  The Information Age caused profound shifts which followers of S&H have commonly ignored.  Turnings are just held in more regard than ages here.  Too much regard is held to the common patterns of the old age continuing on in the new.

I am just wondering if the current blue tactics are wise.  If the issues are going to be resolved without crisis level violence, why antagonize the voters needed?  Why not be civil?  Why close the ears of the middle of the country?  Why spew hate that walks right into their defenses, and cases them to lock down a rejection of the coasts?  Why go crazy emotionally when all one needs is clear enough logic and self interest?

Or so thinks this INTP.

It is simply not productive.

Remember also that I also wrote in my book that the new age would mean an age of peace might come. So I did take account of the change of ages and not just the saeculum.

From my perspective, there is also the cycle of revolution, which began a new cycle in the sixties. That's when the green-peace ideal took hold. This was arguably also when the information age began, in so far as many of the inventions on which it is based were made then. There is also a cycle of civilization lasting 493 years, which began in 1892, and the 2160 or so years in what is known as a "new age" that is supposed to be dawning these days.

Looking at the spiral and planetary dynamics, this new cycle of revolution is called the Green meme. I associated the gradual discovery of Pluto with the Green meme, not as an astrological influence per se, but as a symbol of the phases in our evolution. Discovery of a new planet means that both a new level of consciousness and social organization starts to come into society. The discovery of Pluto in 1930 coincided with the discovery of nuclear energy and much of modern physics, and soon thereafter the development of the nuclear bomb. Its use by the USA in World War II was so far the last, and its danger has likely made major wars between great powers obsolete.

Wars had also been reduced for a few decades after the Vienna Conference in 1815, and were limited to national unification wars in the 1860s/1871, and the small wars that preceded World War I. So they were already in decline, but getting more and more deadly, as in the American civil wars and WWI.

The smaller wars continue, however, despite the greenpeace, democratic, nuclear and information age trends since world war two, so a prediction I have made of a possible smaller war or two for the USA in our 4T in about 2025 is not out of line with the trend.

An article posted in the astrology forum here relates how Ken Wilber thought the Green meme failed to a large extent, because of its expression as post-modernism and its exaggerated emphasis on identity politics and wholesale anti-hierarchy attitudes.

The information age seems to have increased the polarization and conflict within society, sometimes quite violently, though not necessarily violently in the USA--- yet.

https://www.pbs.org/video/the-facebook-d...wo-i7efro/

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic...-producer/

Why did the information age not bring the world together, as Zuckerberg and facebook thought it would?

They were "too idealistic," they admit. The real error was this: the continuing delusion that technology can solve our problems. It doesn't. It just gives us tools which are used according only to our social, moral and spiritual human progress. "Building" tech tools will not "bring us together" as Zuckerberg hopes.

This fact was greatly emphasized and proclaimed during the 2T Awakening era. But millennials like Zuckerberg and his colleagues do not have the background of this Awakening, because it has been so suppressed and discredited.