08-24-2020, 07:31 PM
(08-24-2020, 10:31 AM)Isoko Wrote: Eric,
Firstly I agree, let's not tackle the immigration issue. That is old territory.
Good
Quote:Now in regards to politics, you keep saying that in the U.S politics and the economy has been right wing since the 1980s. I have to disagree with this. You are forgetting the two terms of slick willy and Obama. Both democrats and the push towards more social liberalism did occur on their watch, particularly in regards social values. Gay marriage, the legalisation of marijuana, the start of universal healthcare, transgender bathrooms, all of these took place under Obama in particular. Very left wing.
To be honest, the only one I can recall being really right wing has been Trump. Bush was more centre right if anything.
View of what is right, left and center vary according to viewpoint. I take a longer view and a view from the left.
In my perspective, the USA swung hard right in 1980, and has remained hard right, except for some brief swings to the center (Bill Clinton 1993, Obama 2009) which the people did not support in the next midterm and thus another swing to the right occurred right away thus cutting off whatever swing there was. Bush was certainly very hard right, and Trump is a mix of even further right with a few center policies thrown in.
Quote:But overall there is the establishment of a leftist political and social culture. Video games put BLM messages in their products. We have had the entire socio-cultural elite backing lefty values. Google, Amazon and what have you. If they were backing the right wing, they would be praising Trump all day and backing traditional marriage and what have you. But they are not. It is left wing issues, such as environmentalism and open borders and other issues that today's media and cultural elite are backing, along with the vast majority of the Democratic party.
The culture has no effect on policy, and that's what counts. What we have had for 40 years is exaggerated veneration of the supposed free market and unwillingness to use public institutions and government to solve problems and promote the general welfare. Before 1980 and after 1933 we had a center-left government that was willing to do these things. This prior period created a middle class and opened up society to more people. The last 40 years have concentrated power in the hands of the wealthy and stopped all attempts to socialize society to bring more equality and prosperity to the other classes. What we have had is a society in which the bosses have had free reign, and have created many recessions.
Quote:Trump is like an outsider besieged and surrounded. I don't know how much more left wing you can get. I know what I'm talking about, I live in Putin's Russia and the U.S is very left wing in comparison.
The Left controls one House of government, but only since 2018. Ever since 1980, and to some extent before, Congress and the President have been unable to advance any policy that brings new opportunity and innovation to our society. Trump may be besieged with complaints right now, because he is the worst and most unfit president in our history. But we'll see whether the resulting vote this November brings enough change so the Democrats can govern. They have really been unable to do so since 1980. The Republicans are fanatics dedicated to blocking anything constructive. Only if they have no power can progress occur.
But I imagine if you live in Putin's Russia, almost any other society would look left wing by comparison. Being ruled by a murderous thug is not a pleasant thing.
Quote:I agree with you on one thing. The U.S needs to sort out its healthcare system. But I just do not know how much more left wing you can go without destroying the country. It baffles me.
Yes, we need to move toward Medicare for All. Just what that will look like is undecided. It doesn't need to be a free for all. But the further left we go, the more likely we are to start building a country that works for everyone. The USA today is a center-right country by comparison with other countries, so it has quite a ways leftward to go before it becomes over-the-edge extreme in some way (which would push it around the circle, perhaps, toward autocratic forms of leftism; if you are familiar with the political compass you know what I mean. It is well covered here).