Generational Dynamics World View

[pbrower2a]

(07-22-2021, 08:19 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 17-Jul-2021 World View: Lying "Progressives"

Bob Butler Wrote:>   The problem is not with the clarity of what I say, but with your
>   inability to understand it or describe your position clearly.  It
>   is not that progressives lie, but that conservatives do not want
>   to acknowledge the principles progressives speak.  All men are
>   created equal.  All men are imbued with certain rights. All men
>   should receive equal treatment under law. Etc...  These are not
>   lies, but principles that conservatives routinely prefer to
>   ignore.

No, you're the one who is lying, because of your inability to understand
what America is all about:

• Freedom of speech
  
• Freedom of religion
  
• Freedom of press
  
• Freedom of assembly
  
• Freedom of self-defense
  
• Freedom to expect a fair trial
  
• Free and fair elections
  

All of these have practical limitations. We obviously lack the freedom to say "This is a stick-up" in a bank. Speech of any kind has consequences, and nobody has the right to a compliant audience. "Sieg heil!" or "Heil Hitler!" would obviously be unwelcome in many places. like perhaps a Greek-American community festival. (The Nazis took everything that they could from Greece to the extent that they created a famine and utterly destroyed the Greek Jewish community. Greece was a safe haven for Jews with no mainstream antisemitism until the Nazis conquered it). Speech also applies to communications including writing, books, and the Internet.  Criminal speech is evidence for prosecution. 

Freedom of religion does not extend to a human sacrifice or to a ritual involving sexual abuse of a child. Preachers have been successfully sued for slander. As with political speech, religious speech has consequences and nobody has a right to a compliant audience as the late Fred "godh@tesf@gs.com") Phelps wished that he could have.   

Freedom of the press does not extend to advocacy or promotion of any outright crime. Promotion of insurrection or the dissemination of either classified data or child pornographyis rightly unlawful.

Freedom of assembly does not apply to criminal cliques whose main purpose is to commit crimes such as drug trafficking. The Anglo-American legal tradition has statutes against criminal conspiracy.

Freedom of self defense does not apply to owning your own pipe bombs, silencers, or Katyusha rockets. Paranoid delusions are evidence of someone under the thrall of madness, which few of us consider freedom. 

A fair trial does not mean that one gets the results that one expects. It means that certain rules of process apply -- which explains why a lynch mob is not a fair trial. 

Finally, a free election does not mean that you get what you want. If it is a Presidential election, then a Democrat like me, who started voting in Presidential elections in 1976 and has not missed one since then, has been disappointed with the results half the time. A mirror-image Republican would be disappointed just as much. If there is any moral to that story, then the libertarians are right: never expect the government to do for you what you can do for yourself under great hardship and sacrifice. Nobody owes you a living, so if you want to live appreciably better than livestock you had better be supremely talented or start some profit-generating enterprise with the knowledge that the profits will be your source of a living. (Figure that business start-ups boom when economic realities are harsh, as with Generation X that could spend 60 hours a week paying for food, fuel, rent, and commuting costs or start a small business in which one spends 70 hours a week and has a chance to make a median-level income. The Silent had it easy, and they started few businesses other than government contractors and professional practices).

As a corollary, all economic elites from shamans to feudal lords and tycoons and bureaucratic masters in Commie state enterprises or bloated corporate behemoths have consistently held the same ethos: "The rest of Humanity owes us everything, and if those fellahin or proles give us all that we demand we will let them live.  If they balk we will kill them -- maybe quickly by hanging or through slow starvation or exposure to the elements). I'd suggest the website of the late E.J. Rummel on democide (which includes outright genocide and such horrors as the Holodomor and the Atlantic slave trade) to show how it is done. Powerful people use murder, including famine, to exploit people to the fullest when they can get away with it.             

Quote:You lying Democrats would discard any of these freedoms to impose your
Stalinist Fascist view of government -- you can't speak if you support
Trump, you can't own a gun, you have to perform abortions even if you
think they're murder, you can be jailed without charges and put into
solitary confinement for months if you were peacefully protesting on
January 6, you have hundreds of girls packed into a lice-infested tent
in Texas, you teach racial hatred in schools, you have thousands of
young blacks killing each other on the streets of Chicago and other
Democrat cities, and you want to rig all the elections.

Whoa! Yesterday I went past a pro-Trump clique and shouted "306-232! You still lost!" on the way to Wal*Mart to pick up some cat food and cat litter for my out-of-work brother... and would have gone past them again and shouted "Abort fascism now!" had I gone past them a second time, except that road construction made that tricky. That is an expression of free speech, wouldn't you say?

I know of no American physician who is compelled to perform an elective abortion, although I can easily imagine a physician being compelled to perform one in a life-and-death situation or having no qualms about aborting a futile pregnancy (such as an anencephalic fetus). If you were peacefully protesting on January 6 -- and there would have been far more protests had the Putsch succeeded! -- you were safe from arrest. Aside from ideology the difference between Trump's putschists and the Bolsheviki who stormed the Winter Palace in November (old style October) 1917 is that the Bolsheviki got away with it because their takeover led to the formation of the monstrous Soviet Union. 

Real democracy means that one knows that one can lose. If only one side can win elections -- well, that is the sort of "democracy" that existed in the Soviet Union, the Third Reich, Castro's Cuba, Idi A-murderin's Uganda, Apartheid-era South Africa, Satan Hussein's Iraq, or China or Iran today. In fact, Bashar Assad's party got 95% of the vote in Syria. In some respect dictators like Pinochet and Qaddafi were honest enough to not hold elections. Joe Biden won the Presidential election with the tightest controls against electoral fraud and error ever in place, thanks to the efforts of pols in both Parties to ensure, for instance, that electoral devices were under suitable controls of custody and that dead people and movers-out were expunged from voter rolls. All that was dirty was COVID-19, which made mail and absentee voting necessary for the safety of voters and election workers.     

    

Quote:Democrats used to be decent.  But today, they're trying to destroy the
US Constitution.  Everything they do is sickening, and nothing they do
is shocking or surprising any more.  They are as vicious and evil as
the Nazis, the Soviets, the Chinese Communists, and any other horrific
regime you can think of.

• The ideal Democrat society

First of all that should be "subjects" as opposed to leaders. If it is "Socialists" it is either Commies or near-Commies as in Venezuela. 

This could be colonial rule, fascism, Apartheid, Ba'athism, Iranian-style theocracy, the Taliban, ISIS, barracks-socialism as in Myanmar, feudalism, or military dictatorship as under Papadoupoulos or Pinochet.  That happens when Government becomes unresponsive and irresponsible -- when democracy dies, as was a threat by those who sought to  negate the electoral loss of Donald Trump. (I'm guessing that the certification of the electoral vote could have been done in a sports arena such as the one in which the Washington Wizards play basketball or the Washington Capitols play hockey -- or maybe a cafeteria in the Pentagon that could be secured for such a purpose). 

Many dictatorships happen because the ruler chooses to extend a term after losing an election that would deny him the victory to which he thinks he is entitled. That's how Mugabe did things in Zimbabwe (best known for worthless currency with impressive numbers). Trump was widely expected to lose in accordance with polling, and he ended up coming closer to winning than Establishment media expected.