Generational Dynamics World View

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-07-2020, 05:45 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: Apparently your reading comprehension is so low that you can't understand a simple explanation.  I'll try it again, using shorter words.

No one is saying that progress does not exist.  Each example of progress is a given.  The question is how to explain why that progress occurs.

You're attributing the progress to some sort of magical hocus-pocus "arrow of progress" that you and Strauss dreamed up.  Why do I call it magical?  Because you haven't given any internal explanation of how this arrow works, and how it creates progress.  You might as well just say that your arrow of progress occurs in the stars, along with the rest of your astrology.

Oh, my reading comprehension is good enough.  You explicitly denied non cyclical progress in fields other than technology.  With progress being recognized as real enough, I am assuming the arrow of progress is recognized as well?  Do you deny the Ages show progress?  Do you deny the Enlightenment virtues?

I am glad you have recognized your statement as false and changed your views.  That was the objective.  I am disappointed you are adding insults and will not take responsibility for your error.  It cheapens Generational Dynamics.

(05-07-2020, 05:45 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: So what I was trying to do was to explain to you the mechanism that causes progress.  Why did Napoleon's code come into being at exactly that time, and why not a century earlier or later?

I have not explained how I think drives progress on this thread, but I addressed it elsewhere.  The explanation does not involve ‘hocus pocus’.

We may be in agreement that technology drives progress.  This is not to say all progress is in technology.  The four ages of civilization are markers that are mostly driven by technology.  Each age features a dominant source of energy, dormant weapons in conflict, dominant methods of holding and transmitting information, and dominant forms of government.  Most of this is easily viewed as technology, or in Hunter Gatherer times, the lack of it.  The form of government is in part a reaction to technology, however indirect.

Hunter Gatherer:   Muscle energy, sticks and stones, memory, tribes.

Agricultural Age: Domestic animals, sword and bows, manual writing, hereditary and military government.

Industrial Age:  Steam and fossil fuel energy, chemical weapons, printed information, elected officials.

Information Age:  Renewable energy, nuclear weapons, computer and networked information, ???

I have a feeling that the Information Age in time will eventually feature direct vote computer democracy, but thus far security is not considered good enough.  It would have an advantage over representative democracy as the representatives often think of themselves as elites, provide services to the elites, and are financed by the elites.  However, the direct network vote pattern has not yet developed.

The major developments in technology do drive progress, and do cause a shift in the culture in fields other than just technology.

This is mostly from the book The Third Wave, though Toffler did not count Hunter Gatherers as one of his waves.  I do, as an understanding how emotional drives evolved in tribal societies is important in subsequent ages.  We have cave men with nukes.  Violence was cost effective in the old times, and we are still bred for it.  While weapons such as the machine gun and the nuke have long since rendered violence not cost effective, we are still struggling to avoid it.  

Thus, the attempts to end violence in the Information Age are important.  Your assumption that because this is the way it has always been it will be the way it will always be is the common mistake of conservatives.  Every recent crisis has disproved it, but still it returns.

Hmm.  The Third Wave seems to be a popular title.  Amazon shows multiple books with it.