Generational Dynamics World View

[Bob Butler 54]

(11-23-2020, 11:19 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: I guess it depends on what you mean by winning a war.

Using your criteria, someone could claim that we didn't win WW II. Maybe we saved France and Belgium from the Nazis, but we lost Poland and Hungary to the Soviets, which is just as bad.  Europe was completely destabilized by massive flows of refugees.  America built military bases in Germany, which are still there.  There was a
neo-Nazi insurgency, which still exists at a minor level.  So if WW II was a victory, it was a partial one.

In the case of Iraq, I would evaluate it this way.  We had three objectives -- first to eject Iraq from Kuwait, then to get rid of Saddam Hussein, and finally to defeat the AQI insurgency.  We succeeded at all three objectives.

In Afghanistan, we had two objectives -- first to destroy the Taliban government, and then to control the Taliban insurgency.  We succeeded at the first, and failed at the second.

World War II was fought to contain the Axis powers. We won. It is the Cold War which was intended to contain the communist powers. They are no longer communist, but the need to contain their autocratic expansionist tendency is still there, even if their eagerness to fight in crisis wars isn’t. If you bend the goals of the multiple conflicts, you are just absurdly redefining the goals of the assorted conflicts to win an argument.

You have a partial list of goals in the Iraq conflicts. Bush 43 was trying for neocolonialism, for throwing his weight around as the sole superpower, for becoming the dominant and expanding power in the region. Thus, the huge embassy complex and military bases. If you edit his goals you can say they were all achieved, but no one would take you seriously. A destabilized Middle East was not one of the goals.

The major goal in Afghanistan was to deny Bin Ladin a place to train for more attacks on the West. It seemed appropriate at the time. Again, you are changing the goals of the conflict to suit your position. Again, I don’t take it as serious.

It is a joke, but then much of your stuff is.