08-26-2021, 06:25 AM
(08-25-2021, 09:46 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 25-Aug-2021 World View: Whitmer kidnapping hoax
(08-25-2021, 09:08 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: > Well, well, well. The first domino falls in the Michigan plot. It
> has taken nearly a year, and one of the participants got off
> lightly in what could have been a life sentence had the plot been
> initiated and even a federal death sentence had it resulted in the
> murder of the Governor of Michigan. 75 months (six years and three
> months) followed by three years of probation looks lenient for
> what he did. The first to rat on other conspirators usually gets
> by far the lightest sentence.
I guess this is really hard for you to understand. In both the Whitmer
kidnapping hoax and the insurrection hoax, FBI informants were used to
entrap the participants, which is illegal. Stalin wouldn't hesitate
to put someone in jail if it was revealed that the KGB had committed
entrapment.
It isn't a hoax if it is genuine. Unless you want to claim that the FBI beats confessions out of people (which would have had to happen during both the Trump and Biden administrations) as did the Gestapo or the KGB... it was simply good police work. The FBI technique is to ask a few questions and find out which answers are lies. Innocent people typically rush to the prosecutor if some suspicion falls upon them so that they can clear themselves. Guilty people must lie to keep presenting themselves as innocent. They typically piole one lie upon another to protect the first lie -- that one is not the criminal slimeball that the cops are looking for.
To the question of what he would most want to teach a boy (this was back when girls were rarely criminals, and J. Edgar was a male chauvinist):
Quote:Above all, I would teach him to tell the truth Truth-telling, I have found, is the key to responsible citizenship. The thousands of criminals I have seen in 40 years of law enforcement have had one thing in common: Every single one was a liar.
J. Edgar Hoover
To be sure, not every liar is a criminal, but in general the criminals are all liars. Truth is far simpler than a damnable lie.
Consider this scenario. A rape suspect is asked whether he was ever at (XXXX) where a rape was committed. The FBI has already dusted the Venetian blinds to find finger prints, as the victim recalled that the rapist went to the blind and peered through it as he heard a siren. The rapist put his hands on the Venetian blinds and thus his fingerprints. An FBI Special Agent asked the suspect whether he ever was at XXXX, where the rape was committed. If he was never there he was not the rapist. But if his fingerprints are to be found on the Venetian blind, then his claim to have never been at XXX has disintegrated.
I can't tell you what the line of questioning was. The kid probably lied about a bunch of stuff. like whether he had had contact with others in the plot, whether he had been certain places, whether he played with is toys (in the Militia movement, firearms). From what I recall neighbors heard much gunfire and knew that this fellow and his associates were involved in anti-government activities. Well, the FBI wasn't looking for stamp collectors, was it?
At some point he realizes that he is up $#!+ Creek without a paddle. 75 months or 40 years? If it is 40 years he will leave prison a broken old man... and prison ages people fast... with nowhere to go and no way of restarting his life. 75 months? He will have family support again. Maybe he will get the opportunity to do farm labor when he can still do it. One does not want to leave prison capable only of doing white-collar work at age 65.
From what I understand, neighbors squealed first. The FBI sought to disrupt the plot. I don't care how many agents it took. So what is the disruption? One establishes fake intimacy and listens for hints. You know -- here's where we can buy guns. We have been scouting the vacation residence of the Governor.
It's ironic, isn't it? I have compared the Capitol Push to the Bolsheviks storing the Winter Palace in Petrograd in 1917... and kidnapping the Governor of Michigan looks much like the plot to sequester Mikhail Gorbachev in 1991. Good God!
Quote:However, there was a big difference between the two cases. When the
Whitmer kidnapping hoax was prosecuted, the role of the FBI was
revealed, which was embarrassing to the FBI and prosecution, though it
isn't preventing them from sending the poor slob to jail for the crime
of being a Trump supporter. But in the insurrection hoax, the Justice
Dept. is dropping the charges, saying that there's "scant evidence."
Since when is it illegal to be a Trump supporter? Doing a crime in the support of a political figure is a crime. President Trump hated Governor Whitmer for contradicting him on COVID-19. Contradicting the Great and Infallible Leader of the Empire of Northern Korea is good for a death sentence for oneself and ones family. That's not how things work here. Thank God and our Founding Fathers!
He has pled guilty to felony charges. Those are not all shown, but I would guess that those include conspiracy and weapons charges.
This is a more detailed description of the old allegations:
Quote:Those six suspects facing federal charges in the alleged kidnapping plot used encrypted messaging to communicate about the plot, conducted coordinated surveillance on the governor's vacation home and detonated an improvised explosive device wrapped with shrapnel, officials said.
Based on court documents, the FBI was well aware of the activities of the six men charged and there does not seem to have been an imminent threat posed to Whitmer.
The documents identify the defendants as Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta.
At a meeting in July, allegedly attended and recorded by one of the informants, the men “discussed attacking a Michigan State Police facility, and in a separate conversation after the meeting, Garbin suggested shooting up the governor’s vacation home," authorities said.
Then at a July 27 meeting, Fox and an informant discussed a possible kidnapping of Whitmer, with the defendant allegedly saying: “Snatch and grab, man. Grab the f---ing governor. Just grab the b----. Because at that point, we do that, dude — it’s over.”
"Fox said that after kidnapping the governor, the group would remove her to a secure location in Wisconsin for 'trial'," according to the criminal complaint.
The alleged conspirators used code words and encrypted platforms to shield their discussions from authorities, according to U.S. Attorney Andrew Birge for the Western District of Michigan.
They used terms such as "cake" or "cupcakes" for bombs, a "chemistry set" for components of an improvised explosive device and "baker" for an explosives manufacturer, according to the complaint.
"Fox and Croft in particular ... discussed detonating explosive devices to divert police from the area of the (governor's vacation) home," Birge said.
The federal investigation involved at least one member of a Michigan militia group who was involved in a Second Amendment rally at the Michigan Statehouse in June.
That member allegedly told the FBI that the group was considering killing police officers and agreed to become an informant.
But the involvement of that militia in the plot to kidnap the governor appears to be minimal as the group that was charged Thursday allegedly discussed keeping the broader militia out of their actual plan.
In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that “the enemy is government.” He shot the video in front of an anarchist’s flag and a map of Michigan.
....
The alleged conspirators used code words and encrypted platforms to shield their discussions from authorities, according to U.S. Attorney Andrew Birge for the Western District of Michigan.
They used terms such as "cake" or "cupcakes" for bombs, a "chemistry set" for components of an improvised explosive device and "baker" for an explosives manufacturer, according to the complaint.
"Fox and Croft in particular ... discussed detonating explosive devices to divert police from the area of the (governor's vacation) home," Birge said.
The federal investigation involved at least one member of a Michigan militia group who was involved in a Second Amendment rally at the Michigan Statehouse in June.
That member allegedly told the FBI that the group was considering killing police officers and agreed to become an informant.
But the involvement of that militia in the plot to kidnap the governor appears to be minimal as the group that was charged Thursday allegedly discussed keeping the broader militia out of their actual plan.
In a YouTube video from May, Caserta claimed in a 30-minute diatribe that “the enemy is government.” He shot the video in front of an anarchist’s flag and a map of Michigan.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/six-men-charged-alleged-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-n1242622
Nice stuff, huh? They even came up with cryptic language for the necessary segments of the terrorist plot.
Quote:Why did they leak the "scant evidence" claim? So that the case won't
be prosecuted and the FBI won't be embarrassed again by having their
role revealed, as they were in the Whitmer case.
I told you that last time. I know that it requires a higher reading
comprehension level than you have, but try reading what I've written a
few times so that it will sink in.
Many of the people who illegally ente4red the Capitol Building did little. I expect many of those in the Capitol during the Putsch will get off lightly. Those who attacked police, threatened harm to elected officials and their staffs, or breached classified information will be in deep trouble. If they simply went to the Capitol in response to what President Trump told them to do, they might get off lightly.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
