Joe Biden: polls of approval and favorability

[mamabug]

(01-28-2021, 09:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: on Executive Orders:

Mostly because nobody knows what they actually entail. They are all generic 'feel good' statements that people can sign on to that allow the administration to dissociate from any negative consequences.  If I asked someone 'are you in favor of Biden's policy to reduce scholarship opportunities for girls and give them to transwomen?' that there would be 83% approval.  Or if I asked, 'Do you support Biden throwing 80,000 people out of work with no plan to transition them to other jobs?'

Any polls coming out right now about Biden are complete and utter propaganda. They aren't seriously intended to measure whether people actually like anything, just to further a narrative into believing he has magically received a near universal mandate to implement his policies instead of just narrowly winning a vote based, primarily, on the fact that he wasn't Trump.  They are intentionally structured to elicit positive results because humans are social creatures so the first step is convincing them they are 'wrong' to feel how they do because they are in the minority.

Polls should never be taken at face value of anything other than the narrative being constructed unless you've really dug into the polling methodology.  The best way to read them, is to think about what result the entity promoting it or sponsoring it wants, and then consider the 'negative' responses (to the outcome, not the actual yes/no) as being the floor through which no amount of manipulation could pierce through.  Reading this, I would say the vast majority of the public is on board, at least philosophically, with anti-discrimination and economic measures aimed at the middle and working class.  There is still a solid 30-40% resistance to sweeping environmental legislation and immigration changes, though.

[pbrower2a]

Two states already, and on margin. Someone else's criteria, and the ancient red for Democrats and blue for Democrats:

Quote:Joe Biden job approval rating by state:

GA: Biden+26
NH: Biden+18



Key:

30% red shade: Biden up 1-5%
40% red shade: Biden up 5-10%
50% red shade: Biden up 10-15%
60% red shade: Biden up 15-20%
70% red shade: Biden up 20-25%
80% red shade: Biden up 25-30%
90% red shade: Biden up 30%+

50% green shade: tie

30% blue shade: Biden down 1-5%
40% blue shade: Biden down 5-10%
50% blue shade: Biden down 10-15%
60% blue shade: Biden down 15-20%
70% blue shade: Biden down 20-25%
80% blue shade: Biden down 25-30%
90% blue shade: Biden down 30%+

Georgia and New Hampshire were polled often over the last four years. 
https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.ph...msg7925888

[Classic-Xer]

(01-27-2021, 09:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-26-2021, 03:58 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-26-2021, 03:06 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: My only questions of Biden running for a second term are, as I assume a competent Presidency on his part, are of his health. Anyone 80 years old is living on luck even if he had good habits going into old age. I am reasonably certain that he has already contemplated this.  A try for a second term may be stopped by his perception of health.

He may see himself as a transition to something very different from what we now have... but not the person who will be around when that transformation goes beyond the initial stage. An America tied to the last completed Skowronek cycle in which nothing matters except elite power, indulgence, and gain will seek to bring America back to such. Reactionaries with the means have always done that, and American reactionaries with such means will be no different from those of other times and places.

Dude, he's a place marker for Kamala Harris and that's it. Once she's in power, the country will most likely begin parting ways because the government will have no integrity left at that point. You're completely blind/clueless dude. You are on the Reactionary side dude. I don't know what it's going to take to sink it into your head at this point. I guess you'll just have to accept it after the nation splits with the Democrats.

Kamala Harris has a 3-17 horoscope score. No-one with a score anywhere near that low has even ever inherited the presidency. She won't be president.

The pattern:

1920: Warren G Harding 13-9*, James Cox 10-8
1924: Calvin Coolidge 9-12, John W. Davis 9-16, Robert LaFollette 7-13
1928: Herbert Hoover 11-14, Al Smith 6-15*
1932: Franklin D Roosevelt (FDR) 21-5 U, Herbert Hoover 11-14*
1936: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Alf Landon 11-15
1940: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U*, Wendell Wilkie 10-10
1944: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1948: Harry Truman 15-0, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1952: Dwight Eisenhower (Ike) 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19
1956: Dwight Eisenhower 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19*
1960: John F Kennedy (JFK) 13-4, Richard Nixon 19-6
1964: Lyndon B Johnson (LBJ) 9-6 J/M*, Barry Goldwater 21-10 M** 
1968: Richard Nixon 19-6*, Hubert Humphrey 12-5**, George Wallace 3-5 J/M
1972: Richard Nixon 19-6, George McGovern 9-11
1976: Jimmy Carter 13-5, Gerald Ford 13-7
1980: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Jimmy Carter 13-5*, John Anderson 11-8 J*
1984: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Walter Mondale 12-12 J/U*
1988: George H W Bush 15-5, Michael Dukakis 2-12*
1992: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, George H W Bush 15-5, Ross Perot 7-12
1996: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, Bob Dole 12-18, Ross Perot 7-12
2000: George W Bush 19-2*, Al Gore 11-10 M
2004: George W Bush 19-2, John Kerry 7-16
2008: Barack Obama 18-3, John McCain 13-12
2012: Barack Obama 18-3, Mitt Romney 4-10 U, SN
2016: Donald Trump 9-4 M, Hillary Rodham Clinton 7-12 J
2020: Joe Biden 16-6, Donald Trump 9-4 M (predicted as of Oct.15, 2020)

J = Jupiter rising, on the eastern horizon or in the first house, greatly helps a candidate's chances.
U = The visionary charisma of Uranus rising helps a candidate.
M = Mars rising indicates a candidate who might be belligerent, aggressive, temperamental, impulsive and/or compellingly energetic
* If Saturn returns to a candidate's natal position in the 4th year of the term they seek, candidates can sometimes win or be re-elected, but they face disaster as president. If Saturn returns only during the 3 years after the election, they lose it. 
**As a rule, if both candidates are due for a return, the one whose return is earliest will lose the election.
SN-- Saturn at the Nadir in natal horoscope, a negative factor to get elected.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentia...ScoredWhat

She's now the Vice President, so she will be President whether you like it or not. Also, you should stick to Biden's real score versus the ginned up score that you created for him after winning the election.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-29-2021, 04:39 PM)mamabug Wrote:

(01-28-2021, 09:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: on Executive Orders:

Mostly because nobody knows what they actually entail. They are all generic 'feel good' statements that people can sign on to that allow the administration to dissociate from any negative consequences.  If I asked someone 'are you in favor of Biden's policy to reduce scholarship opportunities for girls and give them to transwomen?' that there would be 83% approval.  Or if I asked, 'Do you support Biden throwing 80,000 people out of work with no plan to transition them to other jobs?'

Any polls coming out right now about Biden are complete and utter propaganda. They aren't seriously intended to measure whether people actually like anything, just to further a narrative into believing he has magically received a near universal mandate to implement his policies instead of just narrowly winning a vote based, primarily, on the fact that he wasn't Trump.  They are intentionally structured to elicit positive results because humans are social creatures so the first step is convincing them they are 'wrong' to feel how they do because they are in the minority.

Polls should never be taken at face value of anything other than the narrative being constructed unless you've really dug into the polling methodology.  The best way to read them, is to think about what result the entity promoting it or sponsoring it wants, and then consider the 'negative' responses (to the outcome, not the actual yes/no) as being the floor through which no amount of manipulation could pierce through.  Reading this, I would say the vast majority of the public is on board, at least philosophically, with anti-discrimination and economic measures aimed at the middle and working class.  There is still a solid 30-40% resistance to sweeping environmental legislation and immigration changes, though.

The poll mainly reflects the views of gaudy or gawky and happy go lucky people (mainly suburban upper class women) and political activists who have no druthers when it come to lying that the real world pays no attention to these days. I'd say the bulk of the real world is pretty much dissatisfied with the entire situation at the moment. I know things aren't going to get any better or get any nicer or any easier for at least for years now that the Progressive'/Reactionary Democrats are in power messing with everything and causing all kinds of violence and hardships.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-28-2021, 04:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-28-2021, 02:30 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-27-2021, 11:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-27-2021, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-27-2021, 09:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: What you call the DNC agenda, is just the agenda of any concerned, thoughtful and informed citizen. This is not politics as usual; it is departure from the usual stagnation and regression under libertarian economics for the past 40 ridiculous years.

It's a conglomeration of big government related interests who have a vested  stake in the action. It's a more condensed/consolidated and assertive version of politics as usual but it's still politics as usual. 

As I've mentioned before, I have no stake in the GOP or the DNC and the destruction of both at one time wouldn't bother me one bit. You should be listening to those of us who represent the libertarian perspective. The libertarian perspective is relatively neutral from a political prospective. As I've mentioned before, every one of your freedoms, your rights and Constitutional protections are directly related to us one way or another and burning a bridge with us would result in your demise because killing people like you would become a free for all. You and Biden are playing with fire while relying on/representing old laurels that have already been abandoned and no longer exist.

You guys violently revolt against the agenda of the people, whom Biden represents, and you will be crushed. I have had enough of the so-called libertarian perspective after 40 years of its maleffects on all of us.    

Well, you chose the path that leads to conflict and fate has been placed  in your hands. So, all I have to say to you is when the gloves come off and protections are removed, there's nothing to stop us from crushing you and eliminating the Woke.  The Democratic party is the party that's been positioned to start a conflict with America. Fate has been placed  in your hands and you reap what you sow apples. Welcome to the 4T.

You forget, I am the master of fate. I am the one who knows the future. You and your gang do not appear in my crystal ball. It is in my hands, yes. And you have disappeared into the mists of yesterday.

I'm the determiner of fate. I'm the wrecking ball. I'm the good side of Darth Vader and you're the Emperor. There's lot of signs dude. It's to bad that you're not able to pay attention and go by the signs. You're all the same and you're all going down at the same time. Sucks to be you because we outnumber you by 10 to 1.

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-30-2021, 07:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm the determiner of fate. I'm the wrecking ball. I'm the good side of Darth Vader and you're the Emperor. There's lot of signs dude. It's to bad that you're not able to pay attention and go by the signs. You're all the same and you're all going down at the same time. Sucks to be you because we outnumber you by 10 to 1.

You are entirely off base?

[Eric the Green]

(01-30-2021, 07:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-28-2021, 04:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-28-2021, 02:30 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-27-2021, 11:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-27-2021, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It's a conglomeration of big government related interests who have a vested  stake in the action. It's a more condensed/consolidated and assertive version of politics as usual but it's still politics as usual. 

As I've mentioned before, I have no stake in the GOP or the DNC and the destruction of both at one time wouldn't bother me one bit. You should be listening to those of us who represent the libertarian perspective. The libertarian perspective is relatively neutral from a political prospective. As I've mentioned before, every one of your freedoms, your rights and Constitutional protections are directly related to us one way or another and burning a bridge with us would result in your demise because killing people like you would become a free for all. You and Biden are playing with fire while relying on/representing old laurels that have already been abandoned and no longer exist.

You guys violently revolt against the agenda of the people, whom Biden represents, and you will be crushed. I have had enough of the so-called libertarian perspective after 40 years of its maleffects on all of us.    

Well, you chose the path that leads to conflict and fate has been placed  in your hands. So, all I have to say to you is when the gloves come off and protections are removed, there's nothing to stop us from crushing you and eliminating the Woke.  The Democratic party is the party that's been positioned to start a conflict with America. Fate has been placed  in your hands and you reap what you sow apples. Welcome to the 4T.

You forget, I am the master of fate. I am the one who knows the future. You and your gang do not appear in my crystal ball. It is in my hands, yes. And you have disappeared into the mists of yesterday.

I'm the determiner of fate. I'm the wrecking ball. I'm the good side of Darth Vader and you're the Emperor. There's lot of signs dude. It's to bad that you're not able to pay attention and go by the signs. You're all the same and you're all going down at the same time. Sucks to be you because we outnumber you by 10 to 1.

I know you think the election was rigged, but by that much? Truly you guys are creating your own reality. Taking the new age to absurd levels!

[Eric the Green]

(01-30-2021, 05:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-27-2021, 09:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-26-2021, 03:58 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-26-2021, 03:06 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: My only questions of Biden running for a second term are, as I assume a competent Presidency on his part, are of his health. Anyone 80 years old is living on luck even if he had good habits going into old age. I am reasonably certain that he has already contemplated this.  A try for a second term may be stopped by his perception of health.

He may see himself as a transition to something very different from what we now have... but not the person who will be around when that transformation goes beyond the initial stage. An America tied to the last completed Skowronek cycle in which nothing matters except elite power, indulgence, and gain will seek to bring America back to such. Reactionaries with the means have always done that, and American reactionaries with such means will be no different from those of other times and places.

Dude, he's a place marker for Kamala Harris and that's it. Once she's in power, the country will most likely begin parting ways because the government will have no integrity left at that point. You're completely blind/clueless dude. You are on the Reactionary side dude. I don't know what it's going to take to sink it into your head at this point. I guess you'll just have to accept it after the nation splits with the Democrats.

Kamala Harris has a 3-17 horoscope score. No-one with a score anywhere near that low has even ever inherited the presidency. She won't be president.

The pattern:

1920: Warren G Harding 13-9*, James Cox 10-8
1924: Calvin Coolidge 9-12, John W. Davis 9-16, Robert LaFollette 7-13
1928: Herbert Hoover 11-14, Al Smith 6-15*
1932: Franklin D Roosevelt (FDR) 21-5 U, Herbert Hoover 11-14*
1936: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Alf Landon 11-15
1940: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U*, Wendell Wilkie 10-10
1944: Franklin D Roosevelt 21-5 U, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1948: Harry Truman 15-0, Thomas Dewey 9-7 SN
1952: Dwight Eisenhower (Ike) 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19
1956: Dwight Eisenhower 17-10, Adlai Stevenson 5-19*
1960: John F Kennedy (JFK) 13-4, Richard Nixon 19-6
1964: Lyndon B Johnson (LBJ) 9-6 J/M*, Barry Goldwater 21-10 M** 
1968: Richard Nixon 19-6*, Hubert Humphrey 12-5**, George Wallace 3-5 J/M
1972: Richard Nixon 19-6, George McGovern 9-11
1976: Jimmy Carter 13-5, Gerald Ford 13-7
1980: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Jimmy Carter 13-5*, John Anderson 11-8 J*
1984: Ronald Reagan 23-3, M?, Walter Mondale 12-12 J/U*
1988: George H W Bush 15-5, Michael Dukakis 2-12*
1992: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, George H W Bush 15-5, Ross Perot 7-12
1996: Bill Clinton 25-2 J/M, Bob Dole 12-18, Ross Perot 7-12
2000: George W Bush 19-2*, Al Gore 11-10 M
2004: George W Bush 19-2, John Kerry 7-16
2008: Barack Obama 18-3, John McCain 13-12
2012: Barack Obama 18-3, Mitt Romney 4-10 U, SN
2016: Donald Trump 9-4 M, Hillary Rodham Clinton 7-12 J
2020: Joe Biden 16-6, Donald Trump 9-4 M (predicted as of Oct.15, 2020)

J = Jupiter rising, on the eastern horizon or in the first house, greatly helps a candidate's chances.
U = The visionary charisma of Uranus rising helps a candidate.
M = Mars rising indicates a candidate who might be belligerent, aggressive, temperamental, impulsive and/or compellingly energetic
* If Saturn returns to a candidate's natal position in the 4th year of the term they seek, candidates can sometimes win or be re-elected, but they face disaster as president. If Saturn returns only during the 3 years after the election, they lose it. 
**As a rule, if both candidates are due for a return, the one whose return is earliest will lose the election.
SN-- Saturn at the Nadir in natal horoscope, a negative factor to get elected.
http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentia...ScoredWhat

She's now the Vice President, so she will be President whether you like it or not. Also, you should stick to Biden's real score versus the ginned up score that you created for him  after winning the election.

Why should I do that? I had to recalculate the scores using a new method for greater accuracy. The old one was too cumbersome. Remember, I also recalculated them for either scenario, Trump or Biden winning. And I need to recalculate them after every election; the scores are based on the aspects in the horoscopes of every viable candidate in history. And the 2020 election is now part of history. So, if I had waited until after Biden won to recalculate, the scores would be the same. But, I predicted Biden's victory before the election, even though his score was slightly lower than Trump's then. So then I went ahead and re-calculated in October before the election, thinking the new scores would confirm my prediction, and that's what happened.

If you watch my video I have already posted here, I said that Biden's earlier 14-7 score was within the margin of error, which meant that he could have won.

Harris' score has gone down even further from her already-very-low score from these new calculations, even though her own aspects are not in the database, because she quit before the primaries. You can predict that she will be the President, and I am predicting that she won't be, on the basis of her score. So you can whine and complain about my prediction all you want, but only events will confirm which one of us is right.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-30-2021, 08:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-30-2021, 07:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm the determiner of fate. I'm the wrecking ball. I'm the good side of Darth Vader and you're the Emperor. There's lot of signs dude. It's to bad that you're not able to pay attention and go by the signs. You're all the same and you're all going down at the same time. Sucks to be you because we outnumber you by 10 to 1.

You are entirely off base?

Am I, are you sure about that? Look at your response. You appear to be questioning yourself. That's good, that's what you should be doing right now. That's a good sign. Lets see if you're able to fall in line with Americans or if resort to being a Left Wing misfit. AOC isn't a threat. AOC is a Progressive cream puff with a big mouth who never had her nose broke during a real fight. AOC is afraid of our fellow American representatives in the House. She should be, they'd kill her if they had the right to do it. We aren't there yet (we actually are but we haven't asserted our right to do so yet) but we are getting there. We are waiting for the GOP to come to the conclusion that there is no other way to stop the ongoing destruction of our Constitutional system and elimination of American law enforcement without a demonstration of force and a willingness to wage war. We are obligated to warn our adversaries in advance. We are also obligated to allow them to make the first move and fire the first shot. That has been the American way for centuries Bob and that's why the Democrats are in the position that they're in with they're fate in they're hands as well.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-30-2021, 09:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Why should I do that? I had to recalculate the scores using a new method for greater accuracy. The old one was too cumbersome. Remember, I also recalculated them for either scenario, Trump or Biden winning. And I need to recalculate them after every election; the scores are based on the aspects in the horoscopes of every viable candidate in history. And the 2020 election is now part of history. So, if I had waited until after Biden won to recalculate, the scores would be the same. But, I predicted Biden's victory before the election, even though his score was slightly lower than Trump's then. So then I went ahead and re-calculated in October before the election, thinking the new scores would confirm my prediction, and that's what happened.

If you watch my video I have already posted here, I said that Biden's earlier 14-7 score was within the margin of error, which meant that he could have won.

Harris' score has gone down even further from her already-very-low score from these new calculations, even though her own aspects are not in the database, because she quit before the primaries. You can predict that she will be the President, and I am predicting that she won't be, on the basis of her score. So you can whine and complain about my prediction all you want, but only events will confirm which one of us is right.

Bullshit, you ginned it up and you know it. Playing coy with me isn't going to work. Biden was the only establishment Democrat left who had a chance to defeat Trump. I don't think his 14-7 score was much of a factor in his victory either. America barely seen him during the campaign. Her horrible score doesn't matter at this point. She's next in line and she's most likely going to be President soon. Biden is doing/signing all kinds of crazy shit and getting things ready for her to come in and take over the reigns. He's in office and that's all that matters to the corporates and Uber rich and the Progressives who him elected. He will be on his way out of office and the nation will begin showing signs of splitting and joining forces soon enough. The Red (free) states have plenty of room for growth and plenty of food and plenty of business and a pro business attitude and pro life philosophy and a Constitution that has stood for centuries and Old Glory and an capitalist system that works as long as ethical standards are maintained and laws are more strictly enforced and corruption associated with government is heavily punished. I don't know or really care how things work out for the segments of the country funded and controlled by the politicians in Washington DC "Modern day version of Rome". How many times have I said America will be watching as Rome burns? I've said it many times. I've also that America was built to survive. I've also directly associated America with providence many times. I've also warned you not to mess with America many times. You're not listening or paying attention or thinking much like our current President who ain't quite with it anymore either.

[mamabug]

(01-30-2021, 06:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'd say the bulk of the real world is pretty much dissatisfied with the entire situation at the moment.

I disagree.  I think at least 60% of people just want all the chaos to be over and at least another 10-20% would be happy with being the 'faithful opposition' as long as they can mostly be left alone when it comes to the things that are important to them.   All presidents get a grace period to show that they can accomplish this and right now Biden is being given the benefit of the doubt.  

I want to be optimistic, I just worry that the DNC is too fractured and that Biden, as a compromise candidate, doesn't have a strong enough vision or strength of personality to keep it together.  There seems to be an acceleration of blue states to get out of lockdown (mine went from Phase 1 to Phase 2 for it's most populous counties in a record 2 weeks when the last time it took us over a month to get to Phase 1.5) which will help return tensions back to the normal push-and-pull of American politics.  We'll see.

A side note on the current lockdown trajectory, nearly every rider my husband has picked up in deep blue Seattle has stated they think the Governor's been playing politics with the lockdowns.  I don't know if they just represent a unique POV because they are willing to leave their homes, but I do find that interesting.  Of course, we are still and will continue to be a one party state so it won't change how they vote, just highlights that most people don't really buy into their respective party lines as much as we think they do.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-30-2021, 08:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-30-2021, 07:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-28-2021, 04:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-28-2021, 02:30 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-27-2021, 11:36 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You guys violently revolt against the agenda of the people, whom Biden represents, and you will be crushed. I have had enough of the so-called libertarian perspective after 40 years of its maleffects on all of us.    

Well, you chose the path that leads to conflict and fate has been placed  in your hands. So, all I have to say to you is when the gloves come off and protections are removed, there's nothing to stop us from crushing you and eliminating the Woke.  The Democratic party is the party that's been positioned to start a conflict with America. Fate has been placed  in your hands and you reap what you sow apples. Welcome to the 4T.

You forget, I am the master of fate. I am the one who knows the future. You and your gang do not appear in my crystal ball. It is in my hands, yes. And you have disappeared into the mists of yesterday.

I'm the determiner of fate. I'm the wrecking ball. I'm the good side of Darth Vader and you're the Emperor. There's lot of signs dude. It's to bad that you're not able to pay attention and go by the signs. You're all the same and you're all going down at the same time. Sucks to be you because we outnumber you by 10 to 1.

I know you think the election was rigged, but by that much? Truly you guys are creating your own reality. Taking the new age to absurd levels!

How many votes did Biden win by in Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Georgia with illegal voting laws in place and illegal voting allowed to take place and counted as legal votes? The Democrats rigged the election, there is no doubt about that at this point. I'm a law abiding citizen for the most part (some speeding tickets, some minor fines) with no criminal history. I'm one of the typical Republican voters these days. Half the country and the former President are waiting for the ruling by the Supreme Court on that issue alone. We are either an American country with an American government or we're not. You're lucky we have faith in American system to do what's right and make things right with the American people.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-31-2021, 01:45 AM)mamabug Wrote:

(01-30-2021, 06:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'd say the bulk of the real world is pretty much dissatisfied with the entire situation at the moment.

I disagree.  I think at least 60% of people just want all the chaos to be over and at least another 10-20% would be happy with being the 'faithful opposition' as long as they can mostly be left alone when it comes to the things that are important to them.   All presidents get a grace period to show that they can accomplish this and right now Biden is being given the benefit of the doubt.  

I want to be optimistic, I just worry that the DNC is too fractured and that Biden, as a compromise candidate, doesn't have a strong enough vision or strength of personality to keep it together.  There seems to be an acceleration of blue states to get out of lockdown (mine went from Phase 1 to Phase 2 for it's most populous counties in a record 2 weeks when the last time it took us over a month to get to Phase 1.5) which will help return tensions back to the normal push-and-pull of American politics.  We'll see.

A side note on the current lockdown trajectory, nearly every rider my husband has picked up in deep blue Seattle has stated they think the Governor's been playing politics with the lockdowns.  I don't know if they just represent a unique POV because they are willing to leave their homes, but I do find that interesting.  Of course, we are still and will continue to be a one party state so it won't change how they vote, just highlights that most people don't really buy into their respective party lines as much as we think they do.

The conservative information outlets and avenues of mass communication are pretty much shutdown by big tech at the moment. So, Biden has the benefit of a moment of silence with very few critics while he's issuing executive orders like crazy that will impact all of us. So, whatever you see as far as polls are pretty much Democratic or former establishment Republican or Left Wing Political activist. The bulk of today's Republican base doesn't participate in polls. I do appreciate your honesty and your willingness to post your views/opinions.

[pbrower2a]

(01-31-2021, 03:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-31-2021, 01:45 AM)mamabug Wrote:

(01-30-2021, 06:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'd say the bulk of the real world is pretty much dissatisfied with the entire situation at the moment.

I disagree.  I think at least 60% of people just want all the chaos to be over and at least another 10-20% would be happy with being the 'faithful opposition' as long as they can mostly be left alone when it comes to the things that are important to them.   All presidents get a grace period to show that they can accomplish this and right now Biden is being given the benefit of the doubt.  

I want to be optimistic, I just worry that the DNC is too fractured and that Biden, as a compromise candidate, doesn't have a strong enough vision or strength of personality to keep it together.  There seems to be an acceleration of blue states to get out of lockdown (mine went from Phase 1 to Phase 2 for it's most populous counties in a record 2 weeks when the last time it took us over a month to get to Phase 1.5) which will help return tensions back to the normal push-and-pull of American politics.  We'll see.

A side note on the current lockdown trajectory, nearly every rider my husband has picked up in deep blue Seattle has stated they think the Governor's been playing politics with the lockdowns.  I don't know if they just represent a unique POV because they are willing to leave their homes, but I do find that interesting.  Of course, we are still and will continue to be a one party state so it won't change how they vote, just highlights that most people don't really buy into their respective party lines as much as we think they do.

The conservative information outlets and avenues of mass communication are pretty much shutdown by big tech at the moment. So, Biden has the benefit of  a moment of silence with very few critics while he's issuing executive orders like crazy that will impact all of us.  So, whatever you see as far as polls are pretty much Democratic or former establishment Republican or Left Wing Political activist. The bulk of today's Republican base doesn't participate in polls. I do appreciate your honesty and your willingness to post your views/opinions.

No, the reactionary disinformation outlets have proved wrong and have doubled down on being wrong. They are like gamblers who have made big bets in efforts to recoup their losses.  Pete Rose was that sort of bettor. 

Know well that a word may change its meaning through emphasis. A word like conservative can as easily be a synonym for cautious as a euphemism for reactionary or even fascist.  It might also mean old-fashioned, but avoiding fads and crazes can be prudent caution. 

Note well that there is nothing prudent or cautious about fascism. I remember seeing a report of a "Kombined Konservative Kampground" In view of the tendency of that group to turn c's into k's... it was definitely fascist.

[pbrower2a]

(01-30-2021, 06:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-29-2021, 04:39 PM)mamabug Wrote:

(01-28-2021, 09:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: on Executive Orders:

Mostly because nobody knows what they actually entail. They are all generic 'feel good' statements that people can sign on to that allow the administration to dissociate from any negative consequences.  If I asked someone 'are you in favor of Biden's policy to reduce scholarship opportunities for girls and give them to transwomen?' that there would be 83% approval.  Or if I asked, 'Do you support Biden throwing 80,000 people out of work with no plan to transition them to other jobs?'

Any polls coming out right now about Biden are complete and utter propaganda. They aren't seriously intended to measure whether people actually like anything, just to further a narrative into believing he has magically received a near universal mandate to implement his policies instead of just narrowly winning a vote based, primarily, on the fact that he wasn't Trump.  They are intentionally structured to elicit positive results because humans are social creatures so the first step is convincing them they are 'wrong' to feel how they do because they are in the minority.

Polls should never be taken at face value of anything other than the narrative being constructed unless you've really dug into the polling methodology.  The best way to read them, is to think about what result the entity promoting it or sponsoring it wants, and then consider the 'negative' responses (to the outcome, not the actual yes/no) as being the floor through which no amount of manipulation could pierce through.  Reading this, I would say the vast majority of the public is on board, at least philosophically, with anti-discrimination and economic measures aimed at the middle and working class.  There is still a solid 30-40% resistance to sweeping environmental legislation and immigration changes, though.

The poll mainly reflects the views of gaudy or gawky and happy go lucky people (mainly suburban upper class women) and political activists who have no druthers when it come to lying that the real world pays no attention to these days. I'd say the bulk of the real world is pretty much dissatisfied with the entire situation at the moment. I know things aren't going to get any better or get any nicer or any easier for at least for years now that the Progressive'/Reactionary Democrats are in power messing with everything and causing all kinds of violence and hardships.

...Yada, yada, yada. As if the only true 'American' position is to accept that economic inequality is a virtue and that the sole reason for the existence of any common man is to serve the rapacious elites, and to get suckered into divide-and-conquer bigotry.

[mamabug]

(01-31-2021, 03:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The conservative information outlets and avenues of mass communication are pretty much shutdown by big tech at the moment. So, Biden has the benefit of  a moment of silence with very few critics while he's issuing executive orders like crazy that will impact all of us.  So, whatever you see as far as polls are pretty much Democratic or former establishment Republican or Left Wing Political activist. The bulk of today's Republican base doesn't participate in polls. I do appreciate your honesty and your willingness to post your views/opinions.

The hard core Trump base is actually pretty small, both as a percentage of total people and of the Republican party as a whole (maybe 10% of the base).  The DNC will never win them, but that's fine.

Traditional Conservatives are a much larger group (roughly 40%), and their primary concern is whether a Biden administration will allow them to be conscientious  objectors to the more coercive social policy aims.  The Obama administration did not fill them with a great deal of confidence, which is why they voted for a man who personally violated nearly every moral standard they hold.  Find the Elizabethan compromise and they will continue performing their natural role in American Society - acting as the brake that keeps change from happening to volatilely.  Fail to do that and you get the runaway train of the French and Russian revolutions.

The rest are a mix of people who could be brought over to begrudging acceptance of the path forward if the DNC reaches out to them and doesn't demonize them.  I'm still waiting on seeing that.  This is the point in the political cycle when whoever wins mouths platitudes about Unity™ but nothing has been done to indicate whether that unity seeks compromise or demands obedience.   I'm withholding judgement, but it isn't looking good out of the gate.  These are the people who are tentatively 'approving' of Biden - mostly because he hasn't done anything yet for them to disagree with.

[Einzige]

(01-31-2021, 06:28 PM)mamabug Wrote:

(01-31-2021, 03:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The conservative information outlets and avenues of mass communication are pretty much shutdown by big tech at the moment. So, Biden has the benefit of  a moment of silence with very few critics while he's issuing executive orders like crazy that will impact all of us.  So, whatever you see as far as polls are pretty much Democratic or former establishment Republican or Left Wing Political activist. The bulk of today's Republican base doesn't participate in polls. I do appreciate your honesty and your willingness to post your views/opinions.

The hard core Trump base is actually pretty small, both as a percentage of total people and of the Republican party as a whole (maybe 10% of the base).  The DNC will never win them, but that's fine.

Traditional Conservatives are a much larger group (roughly 40%), and their primary concern is whether a Biden administration will allow them to be conscientious  objectors to the more coercive social policy aims.  The Obama administration did not fill them with a great deal of confidence, which is why they voted for a man who personally violated nearly every moral standard they hold.  Find the Elizabethan compromise and they will continue performing their natural role in American Society - acting as the brake that keeps change from happening to volatilely.  Fail to do that and you get the runaway train of the French and Russian revolutions.

The rest are a mix of people who could be brought over to begrudging acceptance of the path forward if the DNC reaches out to them and doesn't demonize them.  I'm still waiting on seeing that.  This is the point in the political cycle when whoever wins mouths platitudes about Unity™ but nothing has been done to indicate whether that unity seeks compromise or demands obedience.   I'm withholding judgement, but it isn't looking good out of the gate.  These are the people who are tentatively 'approving' of Biden - mostly because he hasn't done anything yet for them to disagree with.

 
Lol. If there's going to be a revolution it will occur regardless of whether or not well-tempered and erudite petit-bourgeois social conservatives want it to happen. You vastly overstate your own importance in the game of Capital.

[David Horn]

(01-30-2021, 08:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-30-2021, 07:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm the determiner of fate. I'm the wrecking ball. I'm the good side of Darth Vader and you're the Emperor. There's lot of signs dude. It's to bad that you're not able to pay attention and go by the signs. You're all the same and you're all going down at the same time. Sucks to be you because we outnumber you by 10 to 1.

You are entirely off base?

Inside the bubble, the numbers are accurate.  Outside, not so much.  The best guess at this point: 38-41% of the country backs the insanity to some degree.  The rest definitely do not.  That's plenty for a revolution and far too few for political upsets -- unless the majority get complacent.

[David Horn]

(01-31-2021, 01:45 AM)mamabug Wrote:

(01-30-2021, 06:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'd say the bulk of the real world is pretty much dissatisfied with the entire situation at the moment.

I disagree.  I think at least 60% of people just want all the chaos to be over and at least another 10-20% would be happy with being the 'faithful opposition' as long as they can mostly be left alone when it comes to the things that are important to them.   All presidents get a grace period to show that they can accomplish this and right now Biden is being given the benefit of the doubt.  

I want to be optimistic, I just worry that the DNC is too fractured and that Biden, as a compromise candidate, doesn't have a strong enough vision or strength of personality to keep it together.  There seems to be an acceleration of blue states to get out of lockdown (mine went from Phase 1 to Phase 2 for it's most populous counties in a record 2 weeks when the last time it took us over a month to get to Phase 1.5) which will help return tensions back to the normal push-and-pull of American politics.  We'll see.

A side note on the current lockdown trajectory, nearly every rider my husband has picked up in deep blue Seattle has stated they think the Governor's been playing politics with the lockdowns.  I don't know if they just represent a unique POV because they are willing to leave their homes, but I do find that interesting.  Of course, we are still and will continue to be a one party state so it won't change how they vote, just highlights that most people don't really buy into their respective party lines as much as we think they do.

Most people are not like us; politics is not important to them.  They get things wrong, but so do the political junkies.  It's hard to know just how far we'll have to go to get a resolution that satisfies more than a thin majority, so chaos may arrive before the end of this 4T, like it or not.  When agreement on facts is in dispute, consensus is impossible.

[David Horn]

(01-31-2021, 06:28 PM)mamabug Wrote:

(01-31-2021, 03:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The conservative information outlets and avenues of mass communication are pretty much shutdown by big tech at the moment. So, Biden has the benefit of  a moment of silence with very few critics while he's issuing executive orders like crazy that will impact all of us.  So, whatever you see as far as polls are pretty much Democratic or former establishment Republican or Left Wing Political activist. The bulk of today's Republican base doesn't participate in polls. I do appreciate your honesty and your willingness to post your views/opinions.

The hard core Trump base is actually pretty small, both as a percentage of total people and of the Republican party as a whole (maybe 10% of the base).  The DNC will never win them, but that's fine.

To be honest, I'm not sure that's true. You live in the solid Blue Seattle area. I live in solid Red country, where the Trump signs and flags are still up and show no sign of coming down. The hold by the rightwing media on the people here keeps that fire stoked and hot. I don't see it declining soon.

mamabug Wrote:Traditional Conservatives are a much larger group (roughly 40%), and their primary concern is whether a Biden administration will allow them to be conscientious  objectors to the more coercive social policy aims.  The Obama administration did not fill them with a great deal of confidence, which is why they voted for a man who personally violated nearly every moral standard they hold.  Find the Elizabethan compromise and they will continue performing their natural role in American Society - acting as the brake that keeps change from happening to volatilely.  Fail to do that and you get the runaway train of the French and Russian revolutions.

Really? We are the most conservative advanced world nation on earth -- even to the right of Australia. There is no chance of sliding anywhere close to a leftwing revolution, though the potential for a rightwing attempt is omnipresent. Just ask Classic-Xer. If anything, we may finally join the rest of the advanced world with universal healthcare and real social security, birth to grave. It's not an accident that the most entrepreneurial nations on earth are Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and the Netherlands -- all social democracies. The downside risk of business failure is mitigated, encouraging people to take those business risks. In comparison, we're relatively stagnant.

mamabug Wrote:The rest are a mix of people who could be brought over to begrudging acceptance of the path forward if the DNC reaches out to them and doesn't demonize them.  I'm still waiting on seeing that.  This is the point in the political cycle when whoever wins mouths platitudes about Unity™ but nothing has been done to indicate whether that unity seeks compromise or demands obedience.   I'm withholding judgement, but it isn't looking good out of the gate.  These are the people who are tentatively 'approving' of Biden - mostly because he hasn't done anything yet for them to disagree with.

The Golden Rule applies here. Listen to RW talk radio, ignore the talking heads, and concentrate on the politicians being interviewed. The venom is everywhere. If you want comity, you have to give as well as receive. Right now, the Dems are reacting to the backstabbing they received under Obama and the excesses under Trump. If the Reps want common ground, they need to go first.