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The Partisan Divide on Issues
(03-16-2021, 05:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: If things keep going as they are, I expect the Democrats to cram as much as they can into the second reconciliation bill.

I agree, but they still have to contend with the limitation of that device. Killing the hyper-generous tax cuts for corporations and the rich should be a no-brainer, but Joe Manchin is still out there being himself.

And let's not forget Steven Breyer, who seems intent on being another RBG.  That's one thing that's fully in his control.  He has to know where he stands in the grand scheme of things, yet nothing so far.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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Over on the Generation Dynamics forum, one of John’s supposed geniuses proclaimed that he was for freedom.  Blues were not,  I scratched my head a few times and came up with a religious idea that is popular with the Neo pagan crowd.  “Do what you will, but harm none.”  I proposed that in seeking a more perfect union, both parts of that phrase were important.  The government preventing freedom by requiring laws and regulations to be coerced on people can be justified justified if and only to prevent harm.  The more perfect union required that only appropriate laws are written, and those laws would be obeyed.

I gave a few examples.  Laws requiring stopping at red lights reduces freedom, but if everyone obeys the law it reduces confusion and prevents harm.  OSHA writes workplace regulations that are acceptable if they are focused to prevent harm.  Freedom for the factory owner to seek a creative way to profit is fine, so long as he does not cause harm.  This would double down if you are requiring meat packing plants to remain open in a pandemic environment without taking all due protections to protect the worker.

No insurrections?  No murdering people because their skin pigmentation is a bit different?  No preventing people from voting?  Are reds really so much into freedom?  Are they so crazy about their own freedom that they are forgetting the common good?

Anyway, with our having a libertarian over here, I thought I’d repeat the idea that laws are justified when the intent is to reduce harm.  And if anyone is of a mind that that the call of freedom can drown out the need to work together to prevent harm, that freedom justifies murder, I’d give them a chance to say so.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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Freedom is rarely absolute. Much of our legal process resolves conflicts of freedom. Ordinarily the decision comes on the side of who is hurt least by the decision, which fits the "harm none" dictate. Competition means that someone will get something and someone else will not. There's plenty of real estate that I would love to own, but real harm comes only if people are priced into homelessness. That I am priced out of lobster as a regular meal and to ramen soup, one of the cheapest foods that I find palatable, because of poverty isn't that bad.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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With Mondale's death, there has been repetition of a Mondale quote in the Carter library.

“We told the truth.  We obeyed the law.  We kept the peace.”

It seems that in at least the first two sentences, that has become a big difference between the parties today?
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
Reply
Mondale was an early Democratic adopter of neoliberalism.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/15/us/mo...-wing.html

https://www.salon.com/2015/03/14/america...from_1984/

Quote: By the time the 1984 cycle began Walter Mondale had already become more of a Jimmy Carter Democrat as Vice President, going from someone more in line with Congressional Democrats and a potential bridge to the member of Carter’s team dispatched to tell Dems what the Administration was doing. Mondale, who still believes his Robert Rubin-flavored deficit pitch was correct on the merits, ran a “new realism” campaign that came down to a noun, a verb and deficits and debt. He went so far as telling people who were more focused on a jobs deficit than a budget deficit that “the only way to get hope” for America was “to get these deficits down.” The Democratic platform underwent a real shift from 1976 and even 1980 under Carter to the bang-up job done in 1984. The convention issue of Congressional Quarterly declared it the “most conservative platform of the last 50 years.” The New Dems should love the national iteration of Mondale. In a number of ways he was their poster candidate.

Robert Rubin, then of Goldman Sachs, worked on the Mondale campaign. It was Rubin’s Wall Street wing that convinced Mondale to say the line that was later portrayed as the height of economic liberalism by the New Dems. This was confirmed by Mondale to Robert Kuttner. At his most visible moment Mondale would embody a caricature of a hair shirt-dispensing neoliberal, giving a speech that wore his deficit obsession as a badge of honor. “Mr. Reagan will raise taxes, and so will I. He won’t tell you, I just did.”

> The Wall Street Journal and paragons of Beltway “centrism” David Broder and the New Republic lavished praise on Mondale for this. Note that there is no discretion in whose taxes are going up and the deficit is portrayed as the sum of all economic policy virtue. The latter is a New Dem tick that we see to this day. Voters will mirror elected officials’ stated concern for the budget deficit, especially when leading politicians in both parties constantly talk about it, but voters generally see deficit reduction as shorthand to express their legitimate “I’m falling behind” sentiment. They do not vote on it and definitely don’t monitor CBO reports (note: public opinion of where the deficit is headed does not track with where it is actually headed). Instead they’re rightly focused on good jobs, their income and their overall economic security. No one, except for pundits in DC and big donors on Wall Street, really cares about the deficit.
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(04-19-2021, 09:21 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: With Mondale's death, there has been repetition of a Mondale quote in the Carter library.

“We told the truth.  We obeyed the law.  We kept the peace.”

It seems that in at least the first two sentences, that has become a big difference between the parties today?

Those times are still far in the past, but may return in the future.  Paul Krugman hit it in the head: the Democrats have finally decided to be proud of their own ideas.  Now, they need to pump up the volume a bit, and we can get back on track.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(03-17-2021, 10:20 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(03-16-2021, 05:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: If things keep going as they are, I expect the Democrats to cram as much as they can into the second reconciliation bill.

I agree, but they still have to contend with the limitation of that device. Killing the hyper-generous tax cuts for corporations and the rich should be a no-brainer, but Joe Manchin is still out there being himself.

And let's not forget Steven Breyer, who seems intent on being another RBG.  That's one thing that's fully in his control.  He has to know where he stands in the grand scheme of things, yet nothing so far.

With the Democrats in control of the Senate, he has about a year to decide to resign.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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