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What will happen if someone lives by 3T values in the 1T?
#41
(10-15-2016, 11:50 PM)disasterzone Wrote: What is the fate of the new artist and the nomad non-conformists in the 1T?

Also, isn't it also possible that there isn't any one new consensus but maybe two of them? It could be if the US keeps polarizing like this. The consensus might be way different in one state than another.

Adaptives won't go against the older generations who "won the crisis war".

A new consensus is necessarily forged in the crisis.  The Civil War is a crisis where the developing consensus is very different by state or region.  Ultimately, one consensus wins out.
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#42
(10-15-2016, 11:50 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 11:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 10:41 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 08:51 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(10-15-2016, 08:26 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Whadda bout blue states   being wrong?


It's obvious red states are wrong. They are the reactionaries, clinging to the past of trickle-down, dog-whistle economics, racism, militarism, climate science denial, traditional cultures and prejudice. Not everyone in red states (of course) but the predominant political trends there.

Quote:Oh,  just another generation gap.  
3T  -  Boom to X shape up
1T  -  X to Boom Shut up. Cool

No, in the 1T, the millies may tell their new prophet children to shut up. But the 1T trend is for relaxing parentage by the civics.

The Boom may be too old; most of them will voluntarily shut up. Maybe some won't. But X may tell Millies and new artists to shut up.

It's mostly not generational, except that Xers are the dominant elders in a 1T and tell everyone else to shut up and get off my lawn. Mostly though, everyone is telling the non-conformists and radicals to shut up. I don't see too much basis for saying which generation is telling which to shut up, except maybe that predominantly the Nomads are telling that to everyone else because as elders they want relief, peace and quiet, and those who speak up the loudest (prophets) are mostly in the cribs or the old folks homes and are thus "absent." So goes the theory. If you're right, Rags, it's because the Boom will have stayed as young as they wished to.

What would happen to a Civic who felt the times bullied them so they fought back even harder? As in reacted like their children's generation to their generation, reacted to things as they happened instead of afterwards?

Millies will get their way as the 4T proceeds. Then they will be middle aged and will be the builders, mostly content to ride the new consensus. There's always individual exceptions to the trends. Civic non-conformists will have the same fate as new artist or older Xer non-conformists in the 1T.

What is the fate of the new artist and the nomad non-conformists in the 1T?

Also, isn't it also possible that there isn't any one new consensus but maybe two of them? It could be if the US keeps polarizing like this. The consensus might be way different in one state than another.

Yes, I agree with Warren, that is possible, and is what happened after the Civil War. My point about new artist or nomad non-conformists in the 1T, is that they are not typical of their generation or the general consensus; there will always be people who are different from their generational type, at all times. So their fate would be the same as prophet or civic non-conformists in a 1T.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#43
[quote=
Quote: pid='10482' dateline='1476457316']
Indeed, the 4T typically ends because further humiliation and subjection of the defeated becomes unwise. Although the Allies saw fit to execute Holocaust perpetrators, Axis war criminals, and wartime traitors to Allied countries, they did not see fit to punish the low-ranking soldier who did not choose what army or navy he was to join.

-- & a few of them made out very well in the 1st T. Werner von Braun, for example, got to run NASA
Heart my 2 yr old Niece/yr old Nephew 2020 Heart
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#44
(10-23-2016, 02:12 PM)Marypoza Wrote: [quote=
Quote: pid='10482' dateline='1476457316']
Indeed, the 4T typically ends because further humiliation and subjection of the defeated becomes unwise. Although the Allies saw fit to execute Holocaust perpetrators, Axis war criminals, and wartime traitors to Allied countries, they did not see fit to punish the low-ranking soldier who did not choose what army or navy he was to join.

-- & a few of them made out very well in the 1st T. Werner von Braun, for example, got to run NASA


A small clarification: Although von Braun was the driving force for the NASA program, he was actually  the director of the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville AL.


Quote:http://www.space.com/20122-wernher-von-braun.html
… "In 1960, von Braun and his team left the employ of the Army to join the newly formed National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). Serving as director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama, von Braun oversaw the development of the Saturn I, IB, and V. The Saturn V rocket lifted all of the Apollo lunar missions into space.”…
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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#45
(10-24-2016, 10:03 AM)radind Wrote:
(10-23-2016, 02:12 PM)Marypoza Wrote: [quote=
Quote: pid='10482' dateline='1476457316']
Indeed, the 4T typically ends because further humiliation and subjection of the defeated becomes unwise. Although the Allies saw fit to execute Holocaust perpetrators, Axis war criminals, and wartime traitors to Allied countries, they did not see fit to punish the low-ranking soldier who did not choose what army or navy he was to join.

-- & a few of them made out very well in the 1st T. Werner von Braun, for example, got to run NASA


A small clarification: Although von Braun was the driving force for the NASA program, he was actually  the director of the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville AL.


Quote:http://www.space.com/20122-wernher-von-braun.html
… "In 1960, von Braun and his team left the employ of the Army to join the newly formed National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). Serving as director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama, von Braun oversaw the development of the Saturn I, IB, and V. The Saturn V rocket lifted all of the Apollo lunar missions into space.”…


-- yes you're right. He still made out very well however
Heart my 2 yr old Niece/yr old Nephew 2020 Heart
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#46
Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.
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#47
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
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#48
(10-14-2016, 03:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-14-2016, 08:34 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-12-2016, 08:12 PM)disasterzone Wrote: I also wonder what would happen to a 4T type person who's angry that the revolution they wanted never happened and thinking everything's too wishy washy and mild. Someone who wants to push their 4T ideology on the max and believes that should have been the solution.

Can you give some examples of what you might be talking about?  Fourth turnings are basically pushed to the max already.  Pushing things further would involve stuff like executing all southern whites after the Civil War, or nuking Japanese and German cities after they had surrendered unconditionally; I'd think advocates of such things would just be ignored.


An example is someone upset that their solution to the 4T wasn't taken because things went a totally different way than what they think should have happened. It could be someone who was the loser in a war in some cases and now on the demonized side, other cases it could be someone who wanted a solution that the people rejected, even if they weren't at war with the other ideology at the time. Like a person who wanted the South to succeed from the union and was still angry at Abraham Lincoln. Or maybe even someone who was angry that communism wasn't used as the solution to the great depression and wished they had that type of a revolution in the US.

Well think of things like the KKK and Redeemer governments, or Buckley's conservative movement.  Both were 1T responses taken by folks on the losing side in the prior 4T who sought to keep the flame lit.  In the subsequent 2T they got their chance, eliminating black suffrage and subsquently enacting Jim Crow over 1890-1908 in the Great Power saeculum, and the beginning of a operational program for the conservative movement proposed in the Powell memo which flowered into the Reagan Revolution in the Milsaec.
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#49
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.
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#50
(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

What happens to Civics or very old artists who find themselves at odds with society during the 1T when the 2T comes around? Would they feel relieved or would they feel their life was wasted because they were forced to live so much of it in eras they were at odds with? Would they lament being born in the wrong time?

Also what would happen to one of them if despite conflicting with so many people, continued to get their way during the 1T? Would it cause major hate and resentment?
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#51
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote: Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

It depends on the age of the person , man.   Rags will be an old man and if folks see him all lit up on whatever, [booze,weed, "mothers little helper II", passersby will just shrug and say, eh, he's old and earned the right to be chemically altered.   Big Grin







Also, folks started doing meth in the 1950's

So, the upcoming 1T is just a past is prologue for Rags. I just want weed legalization to continue apace so it gets normed just like booze and ciggies in the 1950's.  In closing, 1T's are when "Better Living Through Chemistry" comes into its own , and for that, Rags is looking most forward to the end of the icky 4T and towards another 1T and most likely another 2T of chemical bliss.

PS.

Millies, please invent some nifty new mind altering chemicals for Rags to enjoy. Cool
---Value Added Cool
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#52
(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

The High is prosperous enough to allow some attractive diversions.  If people did not numb themselves in the cocktail longes of the High, there was television. Work pays well enough to provide copious cheap entertainment. Above all, 3T behavior is stigmatized for making the Crisis as nasty as it was. Cultural figures from the 2T have made their adaptations or they are forgotten. Such fictional characters as Lina Lamont (Singin' in the Rain) and Nora Desmond (Sunset Boulevard) find themselves irrelevant as cultural trends of the 4T develop; if they have not adapted they become even more irrelevant in the High.

I doubt that many people had much nostalgia for the Roaring Twenties after World War II, except perhaps for the Harlem Renaissance among blacks. Even that was scrupulously repressed outside of big urban centers in the North and West.

Where the dissent arises is among people who want to participate fully in the bounty of a High and are denied -- like Southern blacks -- or among people with empathy for the oppressed. Were the likes of Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and Martin Luther King rebels... or conformists? I say the latter.

The real cause of the Awakening is that for the first time people enter adulthood with no memory of the strictures of the previous Crisis, people who have the inclination for some cultural recklessness.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#53
(10-30-2016, 11:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

The High is prosperous enough to allow some attractive diversions.  If people did not numb themselves in the cocktail longes of the High, there was television. Work pays well enough to provide copious cheap entertainment. Above all, 3T behavior is stigmatized for making the Crisis as nasty as it was. Cultural figures from the 2T have made their adaptations or they are forgotten. Such fictional characters as Lina Lamont (Singin' in the Rain) and Nora Desmond (Sunset Boulevard) find themselves irrelevant as cultural trends of the 4T develop; if they have not adapted they become even more irrelevant in the High.

I doubt that many people had much nostalgia for the Roaring Twenties after World War II, except perhaps for the Harlem Renaissance among blacks. Even that was scrupulously repressed outside of big urban centers in the North and West.

Where the dissent arises is among people who want to participate fully in the bounty of a High and are denied -- like Southern blacks -- or among people with empathy for the oppressed. Were the likes of Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and Martin Luther King rebels... or conformists? I say the latter.

The real cause of the Awakening is that for the first time people enter adulthood with no memory of the strictures of the previous Crisis, people who have the inclination for some cultural recklessness.

But what if someone's takeaway from the 4T was that stability didn't exist so you may as well take risks? Someone who instead of feeling like they were shaping the 4T that the 4T just took them along this arbitrary ride they were forced to be in. Then the 1T tried to force them in a box and take their dreams away. Who felt so deprived at the end of it, they wanted to have a 3T lifestyle?


What I wonder is how people in the 1T would react if someone lived so foolishly to them (like the 1990s or roaring 20s) but succeeded because of the extreme risk taking? In other words, how would the people of the 1T react to a person who lived against their wisdom but won or got what they wanted in the end? Would they be villainized?
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#54
(10-30-2016, 11:49 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 11:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

The High is prosperous enough to allow some attractive diversions.  If people did not numb themselves in the cocktail longes of the High, there was television. Work pays well enough to provide copious cheap entertainment. Above all, 3T behavior is stigmatized for making the Crisis as nasty as it was. Cultural figures from the 2T have made their adaptations or they are forgotten. Such fictional characters as Lina Lamont (Singin' in the Rain) and Nora Desmond (Sunset Boulevard) find themselves irrelevant as cultural trends of the 4T develop; if they have not adapted they become even more irrelevant in the High.

I doubt that many people had much nostalgia for the Roaring Twenties after World War II, except perhaps for the Harlem Renaissance among blacks. Even that was scrupulously repressed outside of big urban centers in the North and West.

Where the dissent arises is among people who want to participate fully in the bounty of a High and are denied -- like Southern blacks -- or among people with empathy for the oppressed. Were the likes of Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and Martin Luther King rebels... or conformists? I say the latter.  

The real cause of the Awakening is that for the first time people enter adulthood with no memory of the strictures of the previous Crisis, people who have the inclination for some cultural recklessness.

But what if someone's takeaway from the 4T was that stability didn't exist so you may as well take risks? Someone who instead of feeling like they were shaping the 4T that the 4T just took them along this arbitrary ride they were forced to be in. Then the 1T tried to force them in a box and take their dreams away. Who felt so deprived at the end of it, they wanted to have a 3T lifestyle?


What I wonder is how people in the 1T would react if someone lived so foolishly to them (like the 1990s or roaring 20s) but succeeded because of the extreme risk taking? In other words, how would the people of the 1T react to a person who lived against their wisdom but won or got what they wanted in the end? Would they be villainized?

I think you are reading way too deeply into it. You do realize this will not be the old 1T and we are not the borg right? You want your answers look to what younger generations have in common and what the most pressing concerns are now and for the future. I am worried about some thing but others I think have a bright future to look for ward to. I really do not know what your concern is.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#55
(10-30-2016, 10:50 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

What happens to Civics or very old artists who find themselves at odds with society during the 1T when the 2T comes around? Would they feel relieved or would they feel their life was wasted because they were forced to live so much of it in eras they were at odds with? Would they lament being born in the wrong time?

They would be relieved.  Wiesner, for example, was a GI who let student protesters occupy his office without trying to keep them out.
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#56
(10-31-2016, 07:54 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 10:50 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:
(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?
In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

What happens to Civics or very old artists who find themselves at odds with society during the 1T when the 2T comes around? Would they feel relieved or would they feel their life was wasted because they were forced to live so much of it in eras they were at odds with? Would they lament being born in the wrong time?

They would be relieved.  Wiesner, for example, was a GI who let student protesters occupy his office without trying to keep them out.

What will happen to people who backlash against their place during the 1T and don't wait until afterwards? As in people who react to the now rather than the later. I don't have time to wait around til I'm 60.
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#57
(10-30-2016, 11:49 PM)disasterzone Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 11:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The High is prosperous enough to allow some attractive diversions.  If people did not numb themselves in the cocktail longes of the High, there was television. Work pays well enough to provide copious cheap entertainment. Above all, 3T behavior is stigmatized for making the Crisis as nasty as it was. Cultural figures from the 2T have made their adaptations or they are forgotten. Such fictional characters as Lina Lamont (Singin' in the Rain) and Nora Desmond (Sunset Boulevard) find themselves irrelevant as cultural trends of the 4T develop; if they have not adapted they become even more irrelevant in the High.

I doubt that many people had much nostalgia for the Roaring Twenties after World War II, except perhaps for the Harlem Renaissance among blacks. Even that was scrupulously repressed outside of big urban centers in the North and West.

Where the dissent arises is among people who want to participate fully in the bounty of a High and are denied -- like Southern blacks -- or among people with empathy for the oppressed. Were the likes of Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and Martin Luther King rebels... or conformists? I say the latter.  

The real cause of the Awakening is that for the first time people enter adulthood with no memory of the strictures of the previous Crisis, people who have the inclination for some cultural recklessness.

But what if someone's takeaway from the 4T was that stability didn't exist so you may as well take risks? Someone who instead of feeling like they were shaping the 4T that the 4T just took them along this arbitrary ride they were forced to be in. Then the 1T tried to force them in a box and take their dreams away. Who felt so deprived at the end of it, they wanted to have a 3T lifestyle?


What I wonder is how people in the 1T would react if someone lived so foolishly to them (like the 1990s or roaring 20s) but succeeded because of the extreme risk taking? In other words, how would the people of the 1T react to a person who lived against their wisdom but won or got what they wanted in the end? Would they be villainized?

Society will be taking big-enough risks (huge investments in capital, both material and human) to satisfy most people. Yes, there will be the equivalent of James Dean in Rebel Without a Cause who chafes at the strictures that he is unready to challenge.

I can't tell you what the 2030's equivalent of hot rods and motorcycles will be. Taking a bland vehicle and customizing it? Who would have expected such with the Model T and Model A Fords when such cars were still commonplace as late as the early 1940s on the highways because there were no new cars being built for civilian use. We have since seen Low-riders, very clever expressions of what can be done with old cars with clean lines. So what can you expect to be done with a 30-year-old Honda Accord? Maybe I expect the pop culture of the 2030s to show some whimsy with songs resembling "Mister Sandman", the sorts of music that repressed young Adaptive kids find tolerable. And what will be the equivalent of the malt shop? A malt shop with wireless fidelity?

The end of the 4T will be some form of stability, like it or not, that people either lack the means or temperament to challenge. That stability could either be a nation still wallowing in its righteous triumph over evil, a nation partitioned into ideologically- or culturally-disparate camps (think of the divided Germany between 1945 and 1990) in which a return to the Bad Old Days from 1933 to 1945 are out of the question (they still are, and if I were obliged to leave America as a political fugitive, Germany would be toward the top of my list as possible refuges) , or even a reversion to inescapable primitivism because of the destruction of technology and intellectual infrastructure in an apocalyptic war. It's arguable that the last is the hardest reality to escape.

But we have yet to see the final struggle of this Crisis defined. So aside from some broad generalities what can we say of what life will be like in 2035? We have yet to know what the institutions in place at the end of the Crisis will be. If certain people prevail, it will be a new Gilded Age, except with no frontier of small-scale enterprise. How does that work? 95% of the people suffer for the indulgence of 2%... and you can just imagine what sort of political dissent that will create in the Awakening.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#58
This is basically what I exist for. I'm too old to be the next Allan Ginsberg or William S. Burroughs, but I want to be the guy who influences the next Allan Ginsburg or William S. Burroughs and to be so remembered by proxy.

One aesthetic influence on my thinking is the industrial rock scene of the last Third Turning, whether relatively more underground acts like Godflesh and Swans or mainstream acts like Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson. I feel like those people had Something Important To Say, but the time for it isn't yet. I'd like to be a medium, a conduit to transmit that thinking to the cutting-edge of the next Artists, who in turn pass it on to the Neo-Prophets.
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#59
(11-07-2016, 12:01 AM)Einzige Wrote: This is basically what I exist for. I'm too old to be the next Allan Ginsberg or William S. Burroughs, but I want to be the guy who influences the next Allan Ginsburg or William S. Burroughs and to be so remembered by proxy.

Best wishes with that.

Quote:One aesthetic influence on my thinking is the industrial rock scene of the last Third Turning, whether relatively more underground acts like Godflesh and Swans or mainstream acts like Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson. I feel like those people had Something Important To Say, but the time for it isn't yet. I'd like to be a medium, a conduit to transmit that thinking to the cutting-edge of the next Artists, who in turn pass it on to the Neo-Prophets.

No comment.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#60
(10-30-2016, 11:16 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: So, the upcoming 1T is just a past is prologue for Rags. I just want weed legalization to continue apace so it gets normed just like booze and ciggies in the 1950's.  In closing, 1T's are when "Better Living Through Chemistry" comes into its own , and for that, Rags is looking most forward to the end of the icky 4T and towards another 1T and most likely another 2T of chemical bliss.

Watch CA. The marijuana legalizing initiative is leading in the polls so far.

Quote:Millies, please invent some nifty new mind altering chemicals for Rags to enjoy. Cool

May it expand your mind enough so you can enjoy the mystic musings of Eric and see beyond the rantings of the vandal. Smile

(and of course graduate from noise to mystical mind-expanding music. Witchi Tai To gimmera...... and of course http://philosopherswheel.com/toccata.htm )
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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