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11-15-2021, 11:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2021, 11:11 AM by pbrower2a.)
(01-16-2020, 09:18 AM)Ghost Wrote: (01-15-2020, 11:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Ghost
(01-15-2020, 06:43 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: More significantly, five adult generations or parts thereof. The divide between the Millennial and Homeland generations is still murky, but so it was between the GI and Silent generations.
Who knows? The youngest kids today (now in early infancy) might grow up to be Idealists (God forbid, Boomers in style, at least among the dominant ones), especially if the current Crisis resolves quickly and decisively.
There was a time not so long ago when there were five active adult generations (when the GI Generation was hanging on) about fifteen years ago.
I could recall someone on here saying that the GI/Silent division didn't really become pronounced until WWII, where people born in 1924 were able to have ranks in the war and people born in 1925 weren't (was that you?). I added that people born in 1924 were also the last to be in elementary school when Black Tuesday happened, therefore making them the last to have a likely chance to remember it.
Similarly, I don't really think that there was a split (even if it still seemed murky) between Millennials and Homelanders until Pew defined the generations in March 2018, stating that people born in 1996 were the last to have a likely chance of remembering 9/11 due to being at school when it happened and that people born in 1997 and later won't remember 9/11 because of how they weren't at school yet when it happened. I think that the 1996-1997 split is very similar to the 1924-1925 split, not to mention how they have the same Chinese zodiac animals (1924 and 1996 being rat, 1925 and 1997 being ox). Now nearly two years later, the 1996-1997 division is probably the most common divide between Millennials and Homelanders.
'Twas I, but from my memory of Generations. This said, Don Adams (born 1924) seemed more like a Silent and Paul Newman (born 1925) seemed more GI-like.
I think that Don Adams was born in 1923, not 1924. Or maybe you meant to say Don Knotts, who was born in 1924?
It also depends on other circumstances, as well.
A 1924 born person that has parents born in 1902 and is the firstborn child in his or her family will seem more like a Silent than a GI.
A 1925 born person that has parents born in 1881 and is the last born child in his or her family will seem more like a GI than a Silent.
"Agent Maxwell Smart", born in 1923 and "Barney Fife", born in 1924, acted much like a stock character of Silent comedy, the parody of GI efficiency. Paul Newman really seemed more GI-like. Of course, he did some comedy or infused some comedy into drama... but "Butch Cassidy" was Missionary and "Harry Gondorf" was a Lost character in The Sting. See also Leslie Nielson (born 1926), who could play the "efficient GI" or its parody.
Lucille Ball (born 1911) could never get away with the "efficient male GI", so she created a role that Silent men such as Jerry Lewis and Dick van Dyke, both Silent, often imitated.
Self-effacing comedy was the most obvious, and most lasting contribution of the Silent Generation to American culture, whether Andy Griffith or Richard Pryor; Joan Rivers or Carol Burnett.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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There is no current anomaly. Events and generations are right on schedule.
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(11-16-2021, 09:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: There is no current anomaly. Events and generations are right on schedule.
But the demise of bad 3T behavior, a hallmark of a typical 4T, has been agonizingly slow. At this, both Boomers and X can share blame.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-16-2021, 11:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (11-16-2021, 09:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: There is no current anomaly. Events and generations are right on schedule.
But the demise of bad 3T behavior, a hallmark of a typical 4T, has been agonizingly slow. At this, both Boomers and X can share blame.
Yes indeed; however the double rhythm idea does have some relevance. I call this the Uranus/Neptune Return combo. This means the civil war is the 4T most like our own "cold civil war" 4T. If we extend this 4T back to 1850, then we have been in the 1850s redux for some time now. We're past bleeding Kansas now. And certainly, "bad 3T behavior" extended into the 1850s and then made the civil war necessary, unlike in the 1930s when FDR was able to hold back the proponents of continuing the 3T. In our saeculum, this "bad behavior" is justified and defended by neoliberal/free-market philosophy.
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(11-18-2021, 03:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-16-2021, 11:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (11-16-2021, 09:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: There is no current anomaly. Events and generations are right on schedule.
But the demise of bad 3T behavior, a hallmark of a typical 4T, has been agonizingly slow. At this, both Boomers and X can share blame.
Yes indeed; however the double rhythm idea does have some relevance. I call this the Uranus/Neptune Return combo. This means the civil war is the 4T most like our own "cold civil war" 4T. If we extend this 4T back to 1850, then we have been in the 1850s redux for some time now. We're past bleeding Kansas now. And certainly, "bad 3T behavior" extended into the 1850s and then made the civil war necessary, unlike in the 1930s when FDR was able to hold back the proponents of continuing the 3T. In our saeculum, this "bad behavior" is justified and defended by neoliberal/free-market philosophy.
I agree with this, and I'm not a believer in astrology. The singular issue I see is the awareness of the cycle making it nearly impossible to complete -- Steve Bannon being a prime example. In the past, the cycle has existed because it was hidden and the forces driving it obscure. That's no longer the case.
I'm not postulating that this is true, merely that it needs to be considered seriously.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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Astronomy (if not astrology) does have some good timing mechanisms. Twelve years, roughly one Jupiter orbit, is the length of time in which most people go through the graded years of school. Twenty-nine years, roughly one Saturn orbit, is roughly the time needed for going from birth to completion of professional schooling or getting a PhD. Eighty-four years, approximately the time of an orbit of Uranus, is a reasonable estimate of the duration of childhood memories which influence political values. A hint: far fewer people remember Pearl Harbor than used to.
The Earth's orbit connects to so many things that it is a veritable catch-all. Weather on November 20 of one year is more likely to resemble that of a year earlier than of a month earlier outside the tropical zones. Crops will be planted and harvested at roughly the same times in each year.
The historical cycle is more powerful when fewer people know about it. If you want to study psychology among people who have never had even a third-hand knowledge of any Freudian concepts you need to go deep into the land of the primitive. In that respect, Austria was quite primitive in mass knowledge of psychology in the 1880's. Such is obviously not so when Freud is the second-most famous Austrian (as opposed to infamous -- you know, Satan Incarnate). The other fellow, of course, is Mozart.
Obviously I do not encourage any visits to North Sentinel Island.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-18-2021, 03:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-16-2021, 11:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (11-16-2021, 09:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: There is no current anomaly. Events and generations are right on schedule.
But the demise of bad 3T behavior, a hallmark of a typical 4T, has been agonizingly slow. At this, both Boomers and X can share blame.
Yes indeed; however the double rhythm idea does have some relevance. I call this the Uranus/Neptune Return combo. This means the civil war is the 4T most like our own "cold civil war" 4T. If we extend this 4T back to 1850, then we have been in the 1850s redux for some time now. We're past bleeding Kansas now. And certainly, "bad 3T behavior" extended into the 1850s and then made the civil war necessary, unlike in the 1930s when FDR was able to hold back the proponents of continuing the 3T. In our saeculum, this "bad behavior" is justified and defended by neoliberal/free-market philosophy.
Really seems as if we can call the events of last January 6 as this era’s Harper’s Ferry. Agree?
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11-19-2021, 01:37 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2021, 01:38 AM by Eric the Green.)
(11-18-2021, 11:36 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (11-18-2021, 03:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-16-2021, 11:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (11-16-2021, 09:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: There is no current anomaly. Events and generations are right on schedule.
But the demise of bad 3T behavior, a hallmark of a typical 4T, has been agonizingly slow. At this, both Boomers and X can share blame.
Yes indeed; however the double rhythm idea does have some relevance. I call this the Uranus/Neptune Return combo. This means the civil war is the 4T most like our own "cold civil war" 4T. If we extend this 4T back to 1850, then we have been in the 1850s redux for some time now. We're past bleeding Kansas now. And certainly, "bad 3T behavior" extended into the 1850s and then made the civil war necessary, unlike in the 1930s when FDR was able to hold back the proponents of continuing the 3T. In our saeculum, this "bad behavior" is justified and defended by neoliberal/free-market philosophy.
Really seems as if we can call the events of last January 6 as this era’s Harper’s Ferry. Agree?
I imply above that it is Bleeding Kansas. If it had been Harper's Ferry, we would have been almost in actual civil war by now. Threats of violence by the cult of racist thugs are growing, but they have not yet taken arms the way they did right after Harper's Ferry. The rush to get ready for war by the Confederates was immediate after Harper's Ferry. Remember, we have 7-8 years left until the 4T ends in 2028 or 2029.
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(11-18-2021, 05:45 PM)David Horn Wrote: (11-18-2021, 03:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-16-2021, 11:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (11-16-2021, 09:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: There is no current anomaly. Events and generations are right on schedule.
But the demise of bad 3T behavior, a hallmark of a typical 4T, has been agonizingly slow. At this, both Boomers and X can share blame.
Yes indeed; however the double rhythm idea does have some relevance. I call this the Uranus/Neptune Return combo. This means the civil war is the 4T most like our own "cold civil war" 4T. If we extend this 4T back to 1850, then we have been in the 1850s redux for some time now. We're past bleeding Kansas now. And certainly, "bad 3T behavior" extended into the 1850s and then made the civil war necessary, unlike in the 1930s when FDR was able to hold back the proponents of continuing the 3T. In our saeculum, this "bad behavior" is justified and defended by neoliberal/free-market philosophy.
I agree with this, and I'm not a believer in astrology. The singular issue I see is the awareness of the cycle making it nearly impossible to complete -- Steve Bannon being a prime example. In the past, the cycle has existed because it was hidden and the forces driving it obscure. That's no longer the case.
I'm not postulating that this is true, merely that it needs to be considered seriously.
It could be true; however, what strikes me is how on-schedule the saeculum is, even considering that the progressives have not united the country as they did in the 1930s. Steve Bannon seems determined to make the fourth turning prophecy come true, in fact, by provoking another civil war-- as he has just done again after his indictment, and Gosar and other Republicans are singing his tune or enabling it. They seek to destroy the progressive trend of most 4Ts, but that always happens. The fourth turning is always a battle between various forces of progress and forces of obstruction and chaos. The most powerful obstruction is either mostly domestic or mostly foreign, and usually some of each. The progressive side in the last 2 months has been in retreat, and it has to regroup and fight on in this still-cold, un-civil war.
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(11-19-2021, 01:46 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-18-2021, 05:45 PM)David Horn Wrote: ... The singular issue I see is the awareness of the cycle making it nearly impossible to complete -- Steve Bannon being a prime example. In the past, the cycle has existed because it was hidden and the forces driving it obscure. That's no longer the case.
I'm not postulating that this is true, merely that it needs to be considered seriously.
It could be true; however, what strikes me is how on-schedule the saeculum is, even considering that the progressives have not united the country as they did in the 1930s. Steve Bannon seems determined to make the fourth turning prophecy come true, in fact, by provoking another civil war-- as he has just done again after his indictment, and Gosar and other Republicans are singing his tune or enabling it. They seek to destroy the progressive trend of most 4Ts, but that always happens. The fourth turning is always a battle between various forces of progress and forces of obstruction and chaos. The most powerful obstruction is either mostly domestic or mostly foreign, and usually some of each. The progressive side in the last 2 months has been in retreat, and it has to regroup and fight on in this still-cold, un-civil war.
There seem to be two overlapping issues:
- The Progressive side is not just in disarray but truly at war with itself. This can't stand if anything like progress is going to be possible.
- The Revanchists have been unusually successful at planting seeds of doubt - even among Progresives. It's impossible to create a critical mass to push change through if the change agents are too few, too distrusted and too disheartened.
How does this get resolved and, more important, how soon? There doesn't seem to be enough time or energy for two steps forward and one back.
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